Bike_Ride Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 He may of done this online "meet" thing for so long that he sees every girl as only a potential friend and being the case, friends chip in together. I dunno, but I'm a firm believer that the guy takes care of the woman and provides the meals...to "wooo" the female by impressing her buying the dinner and stuff for her. That is the way it worked forever since cave men days and even the animal world. He should of payed, but it doesn't make him a bad guy or anything....I just find it tacky to ask for you to chip in..I personally would feel strange asking that.
Diezel Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 Well he's already planning date #2 and I'm letting him plan it all. But if his style is going dutch all the time...I guess then I'll just have to decide where I want to go with it. Yep. Date #2 is critical then. If he does it again EVEN when he takes the SOLE lead of planning and suggesting everything, then that's how it will most likely ALWAYS be. I can understand WHY he did it the first time around (sans the classless suggestion), but not the second.
sweetjasmine Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 Why should we be expected to shell out 60 bucks on a person who might not return our phone calls in a day or two? I pretty much agree with the rest of your post, but why would you go out to a restaurant where each person's share is 60 bucks if you're meeting a total stranger and aren't sure how it's going to go and aren't sure whether you'll actually like each other? I don't get it. If you're worried about money and don't want to be taken advantage of for a free meal by someone you don't know at all or whatever, why in the f would you go to an expensive restaurant?
Diezel Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 I pretty much agree with the rest of your post, but why would you go out to a restaurant where each person's share is 60 bucks if you're meeting a total stranger and aren't sure how it's going to go and aren't sure whether you'll actually like each other? I don't get it. If you're worried about money and don't want to be taken advantage of for a free meal by someone you don't know at all or whatever, why in the f would you go to an expensive restaurant? A VERY valid point, and exactly why I DON'T do dinner at a restaurant at ALL in the first 3 dates. I always do action dates, something "cheaper", but something a little more involved than just dinner. Touche, sweetjasmine, touche.
Woggle Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 I am not saying I am a jerk towards women I don't know but I am neutral. They get the basic level of civility anybody gets but no catering to them because of their gender.
Pyro Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 I am not saying I am a jerk towards women I don't know but I am neutral. They get the basic level of civility anybody gets but no catering to them because of their gender. big difference between the two. You are equating being polite/catering to them as being the stereotypical nice guy/pushover. Its not the same as being polite to someone.
sweetjasmine Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 A VERY valid point, and exactly why I DON'T do dinner at a restaurant at ALL in the first 3 dates. I always do action dates, something "cheaper", but something a little more involved than just dinner. Touche, sweetjasmine, touche. Just to be clear, I meant the general "you", not you specifically. But, again, agreed - I'd rather do coffee or something other than dinner at a really nice place for the first few dates if I really don't know someone. If I already know them, somewhere casual or maybe mid-range would be okay. But I wouldn't feel comfortable with a guy I don't know taking me out to a 5 star French restaurant on a first date, regardless of how the payment part of it played out.
Woggle Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 big difference between the two. You are equating being polite/catering to them as being the stereotypical nice guy/pushover. Its not the same as being polite to someone. I do cater to a woman once she proves herself. I treat my wife like that but she returns it. I have a big issue with the women who talk the utra-feminist stuff on one hand and then demand the princess treatment on the other. They don't realize that chivalry and manners are a two way street.
Pyro Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 I do cater to a woman once she proves herself. I treat my wife like that but she returns it. I have a big issue with the women who talk the utra-feminist stuff on one hand and then demand the princess treatment on the other. They don't realize that chivalry and manners are a two way street. Trust me when I say that you have made your stance VERY clear on this subject matter MANY times before. Its amazing how much energy you focus on the minority of women in this world.
bananalaffytaffy Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 (edited) Trust me when I say that you have made your stance VERY clear on this subject matter MANY times before. Its amazing how much energy you focus on the minority of women in this world.I'll say. Woggle, you've made your point on this thread. Any more of it is threadjacking. OP- I hope your 2nd date goes well. But I also hope that if you get stuck with half, you'll see things as they are likely to be in the future. Edited June 24, 2010 by bananalaffytaffy
hats Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 I agree with the posters who say it's about your values. But to me, the more a woman wants to be treated and taken care of, the further you're moving away from being equals, and the more it feels like I'm taking on a child. I suppose it depends on how much I felt the woman was contributing in other ways. I think some guys are okay with that, and at this point I've almost given up on the though of being with a woman who is truly my equal and not dependent on me in some way. But I think women should consider that the more you create this kind of dynamic, the less open men will be with you. If I feel like you're dependent on me, I wouldn't discuss the problems in my life with you. I wouldn't fully trust you to make important decisions. No more than I would with a child. For the women who want "traditional" manly men, you might want to consider this the next time you complain about a man with "communication issues" or "control issues".
VertexSquared Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 Just to bring this to light -- my girlfriend and I went to dinner last night and she actually paid.
Bangle Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 Just to bring this to light -- my girlfriend and I went to dinner last night and she actually paid. Good, that's what she is there for.
Mimolicious Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 I pay for usually expesive first dates, the female says she had a good time and then it's thanks but no thanks to doing it again. Females only want free dinners. They don't want affection. Kind of funny how mad they get when they don't get their free dinner. Aren't you the one with 150 unsuccessful "Thanks but no thanks" dates? I don't think dinner tab is the issue here...
VertexSquared Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 I pay for usually expesive first dates, the female says she had a good time and then it's thanks but no thanks to doing it again. Females only want free dinners. They don't want affection. Kind of funny how mad they get when they don't get their free dinner. I don't think you have to drop a ton of money on a first date. If you have issue dropping a couple twenties, I don't think you're ready to date yet. If you're literally going through 150 unsuccessful dates, look inward. The fact that you're paying for first dates is great, but that's not going to get you in the door -- it'll only help keep you out. That isn't to say something else isn't putting you out instead, which it likely is if you're failing after 150. How do your dates go?
carhill Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 OP, I like your style. Here's an example of why, from a prior thread you started: I agree. People are so rude and it's become acceptable to just take it. I'll be honest...I've told a guy I had a good time at the end of a date knowing full well I didn't want to see him again. Mainly because I don't know him or how he would react to the rejection. But I always call and be honest with them the next day or so. I think it's horrible to string someone along. And I personally don't think I looked pathetic by calling him out. So he's not interested...I don't mind admitting that. But man up dude and tell me. Go on date #2 and be your straight-up usual self. This is *your* path. Walk it. If he's not on your path, accept that. We're all different. From your posts in this thread, I see your value system at work. You recognize balance, in this case the balance between generosity, chemistry and having a good time. Good luck
Zapbasket Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 Whether or not the guy "should pay" because of social custom, or what the appropriate gender roles are in today's world, are largely irrelevant. A first date is about making a good impression. Women generally have to worry more about their physical safety than guys do. A woman going on a date with a guy she barely knows is, in theory at least, placing herself in a risky position. Awkward situations (like the who-pays discussion) on a date lead to discomfort, which leads to uncertainty and suspicion on her part, which are not conducive to making her feel safe and relaxed. Doing something that makes her feel uncomfortable is self-defeating, and just plain bad tactics. Ergo, the guy's job on a first date should be to avoid awkwardness and make her feel relaxed and comfortable. If the price of doing that is one dinner, no big deal in the grand scheme of things. For me, on a first date, the bill comes, I plunk down the plastic, period. Any awkwardness is avoided and we're back to the reason we're really there. Dealt with this in a first date on Saturday night. Light dinner and drinks, I paid. As we were getting ready to leave the place we were at (it was already about 1:30 a.m.), she suggested I let her buy us coffee somewhere. Then she suggested a walk, so we strolled along the beach together. Point is, by that time she felt comfortable and relaxed, and the risk of awkwardness was no more. She felt safe with me. We finally parted ways at 3 a.m., she texted me the next morning and said she had an amazing time, and asked if I'm free next Saturday. Boo-yah. So, to answer the original question: yes, he should have paid. Reservoir dog, I really like your response. It's a sticky subject for sure, that of who should pay on the first date...and certainly logic supports the notion that both should contribute to the tab, or that there's no reason the woman shouldn't treat. After all, the argument goes, men and women are social equals, so why should the financial burden fall always upon the man? But you articulate the subtler reasons at work behind why it's best that the man pay on the first date. I think you're exactly right. It's counterproductive to quibble about who pays on the first date, because if a man exercises his utmost chivalry in the beginning, if it's a mature, caring woman it opens the gates for greater reciprocity down the line...as well as more dates .
Ingenue Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 I have to agree with reservoirdog1 here. As a woman going on a first date, I dislike any situations that make me feel awkward or uncomfortable. I do want to feel comfortable with a partner. When that level of comfort is achieved, I can reciprocate my appreciation in kind. For me, any guy who can lessen feelings of awkwardness, nervousness and first date jitters deserves a second date. Whether it's an accurate assessment or not, I believe him to be there for me and for the potential of other dates, rather than there to count pennies in his wallet. When I went out on my first date with the current guy I'm dating, he paid for tickets to the zoo. He insisted and I was appreciative. No tugging at a bill, no pushing me out of the way to pay. Seven hours later, I insisted I pay for dinner. Four hours after that, he insisted he pay for dessert. The point is that I was comfortable enough with him to not care who paid for what, but instead enjoyed the time I shared with him, all 17 hours. Like reservoirdog1's experience, I ended up asking the guy for a second date. I don't remember who paid what during the second date or third date or the 50th date. I just remember that this guy made me feel really great on the first date and I didn't want the date to end.
Untouchable_Fire Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 Reservoir dog, I really like your response. It's a sticky subject for sure, that of who should pay on the first date...and certainly logic supports the notion that both should contribute to the tab, or that there's no reason the woman shouldn't treat. After all, the argument goes, men and women are social equals, so why should the financial burden fall always upon the man? But you articulate the subtler reasons at work behind why it's best that the man pay on the first date. I think you're exactly right. It's counterproductive to quibble about who pays on the first date, because if a man exercises his utmost chivalry in the beginning, if it's a mature, caring woman it opens the gates for greater reciprocity down the line...as well as more dates . Yes, I think RD is correct in his assessment. It's the reason I always pay. I do it because I want my date to feel safe and comfortable. It's awkward in my opinion to discuss this beforehand, so I pay when the check comes. However, having a woman appreciate that and/or reciprocate is an exception and very much not the rule. Of the last 6 dates I have been on that lead to additional dates only 1 woman was really appreciative... and she was not raised in the U.S.
Author IceIceBaby Posted June 24, 2010 Author Posted June 24, 2010 Totally agree with this. Good for you OP for giving him the benefit of the doubt. I hope this turns into something really nice for you Thank you! :-) Thanks carhill. Online dating is awkward and uncomfortable for most people so I just figure I'll try and make it as easy as possible whether the relationship works out or not. I definitely learned lessons from my ex. But I'm trying not to judge this new guy on one date. Bottom line...I don't mind giving, but when its not reciprocated, it really sucks.
Mary3 Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 I don't usually have a problem with paying but it does sound very hypocritical when some women demand that men do all the gestures of how things used to be in on breath and then in the next shout about how independent they are. Some women want it both ways. You love independant women , don't you ?
Woggle Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 You love independant women , don't you ? Yes I do. I love women who live it but not women who shout it from the rooftops in order to prove something to the world while at the same time expecting the old dating rules to still apply.
Zapbasket Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 Yes, I think RD is correct in his assessment. It's the reason I always pay. I do it because I want my date to feel safe and comfortable. It's awkward in my opinion to discuss this beforehand, so I pay when the check comes. However, having a woman appreciate that and/or reciprocate is an exception and very much not the rule. Of the last 6 dates I have been on that lead to additional dates only 1 woman was really appreciative... and she was not raised in the U.S. A lot of guys report that, and I don't understand it. I'm fairly financially secure but I don't work in a high-paying industry and even so it gives me pleasure, as part of the dating process, to treat my date. Small things, like drinks, or ice cream, or dinners at not-too-fancy restaurants...and I like alternating treating each other and going dutch as whim hits. I also enjoy taking turns cooking for each other. BUT: all the while, I want to see that the other person is making an equal effort, not just sitting back and coasting on my attentions. Otherwise I start pulling back. I don't know, maybe some women require more "man pays" experiences than others to feel safe?
Mary3 Posted June 25, 2010 Posted June 25, 2010 I am not saying I am a jerk towards women I don't know but I am neutral. They get the basic level of civility anybody gets but no catering to them because of their gender. What if you found out your date was a Shemale ? Would he get better treatment than the dreaded Female Gender ?
Knittress Posted June 25, 2010 Posted June 25, 2010 (disclaimer of not having wallowed through ALL the thread) I think the 'asker' should pay, and yeah, that's usually the guy. Do you expect me to say, "hang on a mo' while I see if I can work this into my budget?" Yeah, no. I'd never expect a person to buy me anything, but it really DOES give me warm fuzzies when someone buys me food. I'd slip my ex a 20 from time to time but I'd still have him 'pay' just because I liked it! It showed me that he felt like taking care of me, and it could've been a 98 cent burrito for all I cared. I wouldn't REJECT a guy outright for not paying but... well... it probably would make me feel a tad emotionally rejected - and that is NOT romantic.
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