Learning the lessons

[jj33]

I think I am making big progress and learning the lesson I needed to learn from the post A havoc. When someone doesnt behave properly dont ask why, dont give them a chance to do it again, just walk. THere are enough men out there who DO know how to behave themselves, you dont need to read tea leaves and discover WHY what they are thinking etc.

 

I was at an event and there was a very eligible man at my table. I noticed some of his conversation was inappropriately sexual for a business function (oh when I was young etc etc). He switched seats to sit next to me and made more sexually oriented comments.

 

Now I can banter with the best of them and am very good at playing the boys will be boys locker room joking game. I have to be able to do that in the line of work I am in.

 

However when a man who wants to ask me out opens with sex, that is a red flag. So this time, instead of engaging in the banter, I politely sidestepped answering. And I made my excuses and left because I could, and leaving seemed a better option to sitting there and fending off inappropriately expressed attention from him all night while my host told me stop being so resistant this is a good thing.

 

My host and I left. When I explained why I was willing to cut the outing short he was apologetic for the other guests behavior.

 

In the past I would have overlooked that and said oh hes just insecure, he means well, hes [insert list of good qualities here] noone is perfect. And even this time, for a minute I wondered was I being too conservative. In trying to set boundaries had I veered too far in the other direction. But I dont think so.

 

I am feeling so good that I left. Im finally feeling like I learned something from that experience (the A) after all.

 

Just wanted to share that.

[jthorne]

WOO HOO!! JJ, I am so very very proud of you!! You set and live by YOUR boundaries, not anyone else's! Yeah!

[Ellin]

Hi JJ33, thank you for sharing this. You described the emotions and thought going through your mind so well, with great insight and it has given me an inspiration - it feels good to stand up for yourself and your values. You do it when you feel strong enough, but when you've done it you feel even stronger.

 

It's ok to make mistakes - to learn from them and grow is all that matters.

[califnan]

A reminder as to why he is eligable.. And no, women do not have to tolerate that..

 

At my time of life, old age can definitely have it's Advantages - I probably would have given him a good lecture to not Ever talk like that to another woman again ... No one is free from my 'reminders' as to how 'business' should be conducted - whether it be the post office, bank, law enforcement, trains..

[pureinheart]

I think I am making big progress and learning the lesson I needed to learn from the post A havoc. When someone doesnt behave properly dont ask why, dont give them a chance to do it again, just walk. THere are enough men out there who DO know how to behave themselves, you dont need to read tea leaves and discover WHY what they are thinking etc.

 

I was at an event and there was a very eligible man at my table. I noticed some of his conversation was inappropriately sexual for a business function (oh when I was young etc etc). He switched seats to sit next to me and made more sexually oriented comments.

 

Now I can banter with the best of them and am very good at playing the boys will be boys locker room joking game. I have to be able to do that in the line of work I am in.

 

However when a man who wants to ask me out opens with sex, that is a red flag. So this time, instead of engaging in the banter, I politely sidestepped answering. And I made my excuses and left because I could, and leaving seemed a better option to sitting there and fending off inappropriately expressed attention from him all night while my host told me stop being so resistant this is a good thing.

 

My host and I left. When I explained why I was willing to cut the outing short he was apologetic for the other guests behavior.

 

In the past I would have overlooked that and said oh hes just insecure, he means well, hes [insert list of good qualities here] noone is perfect. And even this time, for a minute I wondered was I being too conservative. In trying to set boundaries had I veered too far in the other direction. But I dont think so.

 

I am feeling so good that I left. Im finally feeling like I learned something from that experience (the A) after all.

 

Just wanted to share that.

 

Excellent!

 

In working in a field where the ratio was 10 men to every 1 woman (and that's being generous)...ummmm well it was total rude behavior and completely boys will be boys. I used to laugh with them, when inside I ached for compromising my own feelings. I am a lady and wish to be treated like one.

 

I was afraid to speak up due to peer pressure and when going to work for a different company (same industry) that crap was not tolerated, in fact I learned most of the abuse at the other job was not tolerated at this new place. The guys were respectful ...period.

 

The sediments were if you can't take it then leave...that is abuse at it's finest. Everybody deserves respect.

 

There is a time and a place...now if I was in a bar I would expect it, but not in the workplace...no.

[pureinheart]

A reminder as to why he is eligable.. And no, women do not have to tolerate that..

 

At my time of life, old age can definitely have it's Advantages - I probably would have given him a good lecture to not Ever talk like that to another woman again ... No one is free from my 'reminders' as to how 'business' should be conducted - whether it be the post office, bank, law enforcement, trains..

 

Hahahahaha...that's good CN

[jj33]

Thanks all. You know had it been a purely business thing and I thought he was just bantering I would have thought he was silly but wouldnt have minded. Its just work, it rolls off me at this point.

 

When it was clear he wanted to ask me out, then it was different. Not the way i want to be approached in a social context.

 

The thing is I have to look back and say actually I played a part in why some of the commitment phobic and problematic men latched on to me. By responding to them positively (in a social context) I condoned their behavior. I encouraged the immature behavior etc by writing it off to flirting and joking and banter.

 

Ex MM once said I was the only one he could joke with like that. Thats ok once you know someone well but often (not always but often) not OK when you dont know them if you want more than something more than superficial.

 

I used to be very fatalistic. With the right person it wont matter. The problem is I allowed a lot of the wrong people into my life as a result and got attached to them and caused myself a lot of heartache. And I did it again and again and again because the men were handsome, charming sexy and "good on paper".

 

As it happens most men (not all most) and I would be curious to hear men's views, take a woman's positive response to these things to mean that she is up for a laugh, takes things easily and isnt concerned about whether there is a lot of substance to the encounter shes cool she can go with the flow so to speak.

 

When I think about the other women I know that were in attendance, none of them would have wanted to engage in those conversations and I think they would have been offended. In the past I would have thought they were just too uptight. Not so much anymore. I think my standards were too low in terms of the type of behavior I was willing to accept. And always have been ever since I was a teenager.

 

I dont know the answer but tightening up the screening process has to be the way forward for me.

[greengoddess]

That's wonderful!

 

Now on to the next step. You need to ask yourself what about you made it seem ok to him to talk to you this way? What about you made him think talking sex would get him a date? How do you portray yourself?

[Fallen Angel]

That's wonderful!

 

Now on to the next step. You need to ask yourself what about you made it seem ok to him to talk to you this way? What about you made him think talking sex would get him a date? How do you portray yourself?

 

She has breasts and a vagina. That is all it requires for many men to think it is okay. It is does not mean she "protrayed" herself in any manner that invited his bad behaviour.

[fooled once]

I think I am making big progress and learning the lesson I needed to learn from the post A havoc. When someone doesnt behave properly dont ask why, dont give them a chance to do it again, just walk. THere are enough men out there who DO know how to behave themselves, you dont need to read tea leaves and discover WHY what they are thinking etc.

 

I was at an event and there was a very eligible man at my table. I noticed some of his conversation was inappropriately sexual for a business function (oh when I was young etc etc). He switched seats to sit next to me and made more sexually oriented comments.

 

Now I can banter with the best of them and am very good at playing the boys will be boys locker room joking game. I have to be able to do that in the line of work I am in.

 

However when a man who wants to ask me out opens with sex, that is a red flag. So this time, instead of engaging in the banter, I politely sidestepped answering. And I made my excuses and left because I could, and leaving seemed a better option to sitting there and fending off inappropriately expressed attention from him all night while my host told me stop being so resistant this is a good thing.

 

My host and I left. When I explained why I was willing to cut the outing short he was apologetic for the other guests behavior.

 

In the past I would have overlooked that and said oh hes just insecure, he means well, hes [insert list of good qualities here] noone is perfect. And even this time, for a minute I wondered was I being too conservative. In trying to set boundaries had I veered too far in the other direction. But I dont think so.

 

I am feeling so good that I left. Im finally feeling like I learned something from that experience (the A) after all.

 

Just wanted to share that.

 

You are doing GREAT jj!!

 

You made the best decision FOR YOU!

 

I am so proud of you!!! (hugs)

[Hazyhead]

It makes me uncomfortable enough when I'm out with my girlfriends and a man/group of men are sexually inappropriate, but in a business environment, I think it's quite disgusting. You did great JJ! You rose way above him without impacted the situation negatively for others (even though he deserved HIS situation impacting )

 

Good for you girl!

[Hazyhead]

She has breasts and a vagina. That is all it requires for many men to think it is okay. It is does not mean she "protrayed" herself in any manner that invited his bad behaviour.

 

I agree with you here FA. For some men, they need no signs to intercept.

[jj33]

I dont know. I was wearing something relatively conservative while others were baring all (black tie). I was wearing loose fitting trousers and long sleeves not transparent in any way so it wasnt what I was wearing.

 

I didnt answer any of his questions just made a face and changed the topic. As FA said some men are just that way. If there is something about me that makes people think its OK its not what I wear or what I say.

 

Im very pleased with myself. Its one less drama that will unfold. Im tired of having all sorts of "interesting" stories that end with but in the end he wasnt as nice as I thought he was...

 

Also gives me a lot more courage about facing xMM because mentally I see it all differently now. Easy to be charming to him in person when I dont care what he thinks or feels or how he perceives me and important to be charming in front of mutual clients if I am not, people will wonder why I am not behaving properly.

[Spark1111]

Good for you JJ! Be proud of yourself!

 

Never accept unacceptable behavior! Set those standards high! Teach those idiots some manners....

 

Men always want sex. If they start with sexual banter, they are trying to feel out how receptive you may be to.....simply sex.

 

It's their nature and they often seem to be unable to help it.

 

However, if they respect you as a person, truly desire you as a partner, they sit politely like choir boys hoping the "prize" of a woman will smile in their direction. They rush over themselves to get you a drink, open a door, or be intensely considerate of a woman who may be a life partner because she's "special," a cut above the easy.

 

A man's actions tell you everything. And the man who may be most desirous of you is the one who does not mention sex for a really long time. Why? He is trying to impress you with how considerate he would be as a life partner.

 

Like grandma always said: "The one who really, really wants you, is the one who waits for you to be ready for him physically."

 

Maybe it goes to the whore/madonna complex. Who knows?

 

Good for you!

[jj33]

Thanks Spark. It not a question of not having been ready although it was in this case. I think I always found it easier to be physically intimate than to be emotionally intimate. And its not a matter of time. You can go out with someone for a month on 6 or 7 or 10 dates and it doesnt mean you know them so well. I am kind of like the men I have ended up with in that way.

 

It hit me with xMM that someone who didnt communicate in the same way that he did wouldnt have gotten involved with him and wouldnt have "understood" him. I can now see that it wasnt good that I understood all those things because I excused a lot. Not sexual banter particularly but other things.

Edited June 23, 2010 by jj33

[Mimolicious]

JJ- that was great! Proud of you!

 

You are learning in the school of hard-knocks! Your standards can be from here to the moon, they are YOUR standards and you are owning them. It's your life and whatever you don't like you don't have to tolerate. You are acting the way you want to be treated. BRAVO my friend!

 

I am sure that if you ever came across this gentleman (used loosely) he will not dare to make such foolish comments again.

[jj33]

Thanks Mimo and you are right! He sent me an email today. All business.

[pureinheart]

Thanks all. You know had it been a purely business thing and I thought he was just bantering I would have thought he was silly but wouldnt have minded. Its just work, it rolls off me at this point.

 

When it was clear he wanted to ask me out, then it was different. Not the way i want to be approached in a social context.

 

The thing is I have to look back and say actually I played a part in why some of the commitment phobic and problematic men latched on to me. By responding to them positively (in a social context) I condoned their behavior. I encouraged the immature behavior etc by writing it off to flirting and joking and banter.

 

Ex MM once said I was the only one he could joke with like that. Thats ok once you know someone well but often (not always but often) not OK when you dont know them if you want more than something more than superficial.

 

I used to be very fatalistic. With the right person it wont matter. The problem is I allowed a lot of the wrong people into my life as a result and got attached to them and caused myself a lot of heartache. And I did it again and again and again because the men were handsome, charming sexy and "good on paper".

 

As it happens most men (not all most) and I would be curious to hear men's views, take a woman's positive response to these things to mean that she is up for a laugh, takes things easily and isnt concerned about whether there is a lot of substance to the encounter shes cool she can go with the flow so to speak.

 

When I think about the other women I know that were in attendance, none of them would have wanted to engage in those conversations and I think they would have been offended. In the past I would have thought they were just too uptight. Not so much anymore. I think my standards were too low in terms of the type of behavior I was willing to accept. And always have been ever since I was a teenager.

 

I dont know the answer but tightening up the screening process has to be the way forward for me.

 

I read a book on commitment phobics and was quite shocked. I couldn't understand exDM's flip-flopping because to me if it's real and within reason go for it. I sensed he might not be for real, then saw the evidence when he was becoming "free". Then when reading a book called "Go Away Come Closer" and many others on this same line, I then understood there are some that lack the true meaning of intimacy and are unable to grasp this concept.

 

Something within a persons inner being sends up a red flag when things are too close, so they pull away...yet their desire to become close, to attach to another human being starts to well up inside them, and they let go of the fear of intimacy, they open up...but only for a time and the cycle starts all over again.

 

This is the frustating factor that flip-flopping causes those of us that desire commitment and intimacy. Many take the flip-flopping personal...it's not...

[pureinheart]

She has breasts and a vagina. That is all it requires for many men to think it is okay. It is does not mean she "protrayed" herself in any manner that invited his bad behaviour.

 

Thank you....having worked with many men, most of them had no boundries and expect others to be ok with that. I'm sure there are many women this way also...my experiences were in a male dominant work force.