Banning illegal porn, your thoughts? (yes, a porn thread)

[MizzBlue72]

No - do not ban. Freedom of speech.

If you don't like it - adult filters are good Look them up

[Des]

I promise you, there is not a single person in America who wants to get high who cannot because drugs are illegal. Not one. Everyone who wants to use drugs is already doing so, and will continue to do so whether they are legal or illegal. No one is not doing drugs because they are illegal.

 

That is a stretch if I ever heard one. I'm sure there are people not doing them, who would otherwise do them, if they were legal. Not only in a fear of breaking the law, but because of the difference in availability between a society where they are sold on the street in broad daylight, and one where they are hidden away, and only accessed through connections. The difference between "here it is in my face", and "how do I this or that drug?".

 

Of course, where this porn stands now, it's like the drug vendors are on the streets and kids can buy anything they want, for free no less.

 

And the US government has been cracking down on drugs for 40 years. The first "War On Drugs" was launched in the 2nd Nixon Administration. All it's done is fill the jails with people who shouldn't be there. The US locks up more people than anyone else in the world--even China. 1 out of every 4 prisoners on the PLANET is in a US prison.

 

I know of this, but I have little faith in their interest to get tougher about it or really do what needs done. Especially considering all the questionable things they'd have to do at this point to rid it.

 

The prospects of a war on porn are even worse than the prospects of a war on drugs. At least with a war on drugs, there is a physical substance that can be interdicted--sometimes. Porn is just data flying through cyberspace. Good luck with that.

 

Again, this isn't really so much a war on porn, as it is a war on illegally distributed and copyright infringed content that is made publicly available. Cracking down on free porn is something even the majority of the porn industry itself wants to see done. A fight for both economy and society's well being. Somehow I think, as far as digital distribution of content is concerned, I believe it would be a much easier fight than the war on drugs.

 

If China can block anyone's access to a search with the word "freedom", then I imagine we can make it to where pirated illegal content is rid from our servers.

Edited June 22, 2010 by Des

[skydiveaddict]

Isnt "illegal" porn by definition already banned?

[Des]

No - do not ban. Freedom of speech.

If you don't like it - adult filters are good Look them up

 

Missed the point. Does your freedom of speech grant you the right to take something else someone makes and give it to everyone in the world? Does it protect distribution of obscenity? Nope.

[Des]

I beg to differ. I'm a student of psychology... mainly women's studies, sexuality and gender differences. I never said it was a "non issue", nor did I imply it was "unimportant," I said it was futile. As others have mentioned, piracy is nearly unbeatable... it's simply just an effective goal.

 

We lack ambition. I don't believe for a second that this is incontrollable. Again, I hate to reference fascism. But it's an example. However, this isn't a matter of actually banning porn from being made, or keeping people from something that is rightfully theirs.

 

If piracy in the digital age truly is an unstoppable force, that spells a lot of trouble for us. The fact of the matter is, US laws and enforcement haven't quite caught up with the fast changing scene of technology, and currently does not know how to address it, or deal with the challenges that now face us as a result. Many of those in power, don't even have a rational understanding of what the Internet is, much less how to govern it, or keep it from being a land of no laws. But inevitably, I believe that will change.

 

And no, "illegal pornography" is not as equally as important as cases of physical, verbal and sexual abuse reported daily. No, I don't think funding dedicated to banning illegal porn would benefit women and children as much as generating and preserving preventative abuse programs, safe-houses and other forms of education. I believe you know your stuff, but I also believe your honorable, and absolutely valid perspective is not entirely realistic.

 

It's hard for me to understand why you feel this way. Because it's hard for me to weigh which forms of abuse or degradation are more important to deal with. Sure, there's abuse in relationships, there's abuse in pornography. Research has often indicated there is a connection. Real world experience has shown me that there is. So, do you tend to just where women and children are abused in the "real world" as a indirect result, or do you deal with a very possible source as well? Things that in the plain light of day, promote or mock ideas of degradation and abuse? I say both are equally important. I think dealing to this, will help much in the long run with the abuse of women and children, in a general sense. It's all part of a puzzle, and the pieces are equally important.

 

Yes, many of those videos do capture discriminant, repulsive behaviors. However these disgusting acts are not limited to pornography. For every porno that disgraces women, I could find you media that reflects another form of abuse. I think you're trying to "play it up" just because it is porn.

 

I can't quite compare other forms of media that depict abuse, to a depiction of real abuse, that encourages real abuse. A porn addiction or fixation of such a thing, has a significantly higher potential of negative outcomes, in opinion. I'd say many more men are addicted to porn, than there are addicted to Hollywood violence. Those men are likely not masturbating to it, or associating abuse and degradation of people with orgasms and pleasure.

Edited June 22, 2010 by Des

[Des]

Isnt "illegal" porn by definition already banned?

 

Porn that is illegal to make, is banned. Porn that is illegal to distribute, and that violates copyrights, is rampant. Basically, you shouldn't be allowed to just Google search and watch a porn for free.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

Of course anything violent towards women is bad no ones going to argue for it what dose worry me tho a little is today the government bans that tomorrow whats next? What next do they decide is bad for us? far as the copy right laws sadly thats a fart in a bottle. If you really want to find it you can regardless!

[Des]

Of course anything violent towards women is bad no ones going to argue for it what dose worry me tho a little is today the government bans that tomorrow whats next? What next do they decide is bad for us? far as the copy right laws sadly thats a fart in a bottle. If you really want to find it you can regardless!

 

Well again, I think you're misreading this. They're not trying to argue putting and end to porn production. But putting an end to this current state of illegal "free porn". I figure as long as they're cracking down on illegal activity, I'm not too worried about what else they'll enforce.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

Well again, I think you're misreading this. They're not trying to argue putting and end to porn production. But putting an end to this current state of illegal "free porn". I figure as long as they're cracking down on illegal activity, I'm not too worried about what else they'll enforce.

 

Smoking is also considered illegal in quite a few places but im sure theres allot of people who are not to happy about that but the government decided thats how it should be just an example I myself don't smoke.

 

Another one is smacking your kid as discipline isent that also now illegal? I'm not for child abuse don't get me wrong but a little swat on the butt could land mom in court in a few places now no?

Edited June 22, 2010 by SpanksTheMonkey

[Des]

Smoking is also considered illegal in quite a few places but im sure theres allot of people who are not to happy about that but the government decided thats how it should be just an example I myself don't smoke.

 

Another one is smacking your kid as discipline isent that also now illegal? I'm not for child abuse don't get me wrong but a little swat on the butt could land mom in court in a few places now no?

 

This really isn't much of a comparison. But even those unhappy people can understand why it's illegal. Non-smokers who share public places with smokers don't want second-hand smoke or cancer.

 

As far as child abuse. Leaving a bruise or scar on a child, I would say might land her in court, not a "little swat".

 

But this has little to do with distribution of obscenity or copyright infringement.

Edited June 22, 2010 by Des

[SpanksTheMonkey]

This really isn't much of a comparison. But even those unhappy people can understand why it's illegal. Non-smokers who share public places with smokers don't want second-hand smoke or cancer.

 

As far as child abuse. Leaving a bruise or scar on a child, I would say might land her in court, not a "little swat".

 

But this has little to do with distribution of obscenity or copyright infringement.

 

Agreed its not on the same level as porn never said it was I was giving examples of how the government have stepped in repeatedly in our lives to say whats best for us.

 

Have they also banned smoking in private cars now? last I herd that was in the works in public OK fair enough. Also you sure about the swat on the butt? I could have sworn I saw a Innocent mom who was done for that a while back?

 

I could be wrong but again there just some examples of how I feel the government some times can over do it a little.

[A O]

Didn't feel a great need to comment in this thread until I saw SpanksTheMonkey's "All Whites" avatar. Primo Supremo! Mate, I take my hat off to you.

 

Go the mighty All Whites!!!

 

 

.

[Els]

I think a more important sort of 'illegal' porn which should certainly be banned.. is pornography that isn't produced in accordance with the law, from actress rights and payments, to consent and age policies.

[alyssatranswarrior]

I hate to be blunt but the ONLY solution here that could ever contribute to changing this, is educating parents to be more mindful of their children and their actions and take responsibilities on themselves. Smoking pot is also illegal and parents usually try stop their children from doing that act.

 

My parents talked to me about internet porn in 2002 when we first got a computer with internet and they said they were fine with it provided it wasnt illegal types (bestiality, child etc) or we didnt charge their credit cards for any sites.

 

My point being I have smart parents who while they dont like internet pornography also wanted their children to make up their own minds and werent going to be nazi about it if we wanted to be curious about porn.

-------------------------

What you appear to be doing is overlooking the role parents should play. If some parents can't due to a lack of time or something, then that is those parents who make that choice of lifestyle. If they want to be a 110% businessman/woman and neglect the raising of their children they should also face the fact that their kids might run off doing things without concern for laws or attitudes in the "highest" respect for human beings.

 

Personally, if I was a failing parent I would be willing to realize I failed them and not "society" for allowing internet piracy to continue. Its an unstoppable machine that you can only stop via china-esque actions. America really will never sink to that level and if it does - for shame!

 

If you want validation for your perspective, des, you might consider taking your over the top values some place else where your view is common. Like a parents action group forum. Where thousands of other weak parents go to complain they didn't have a gift wrapped shatter proof society.

 

"save the children" Well my friend, as the life experienced late george carlin would so fittingly say.. "F*** the children!" Thank you mr carlin, as he said this line while explaining that parents should stop whining to society and instead raise their children! I miss G.C.

Edited June 22, 2010 by alyssatranswarrior

[Ocktus]

You can't stop people from viewing porn on the internet unless you establish a country wide "firewall" which filters data received inside US from servers outside it. This creates plenty of problems like websites that have nothing to do with porn becoming unaccessible. Also data transfer speeds will drop by 10-20%, in other words your internet will become slower.

 

Also, where would you stop with the censorship. Many rap lyrics and videos degrade women more than your average non-fetish porno. What about violent movies and video games?

 

Btw, your argument is really confused - why do you keep mixing piracy with internet porn with porn distribution with illegal porn with free porn with porn that's illegal on the internet but not in another form of media. I mean, what is going on here?

[Jersey Shortie]

Ocktus, show us where in this thread anyone said that this topic was about getting people to not watch porn. I'm not certain certain posters are even reading this thread before commenting. They saw the words "ban" and "porn" and started making unrelated speaches about consitutional rights. This isn’t an issue of denying freedom of speech or telling a person what they can and can not do.

 

It’s like Napster. It was illegal to download artists' music for free because people were taking something they were not paying for. Just because the internet makes these things possible, doesn’t mean it was right to the music artists. There seems to be this mentality that they *deserve* a product for free. You might pay for the internet, but just because you pay for the internet, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have to pay for things in addition that you get from the internet. I don’t go to shop on nordstrom.com, and expect them to send me a cute top. When a purchase an item, I even need to pay for shipping and handling charges/ This is the same as downloading free music, boot-legged movies or boot-legged pornography. Which is really want this topic is about. People stealing porn movies and downloading them for free.

 

So I would agree that since there is a legal ban on boot-legging normal movie, there should be a legal ban on boot-legging porn. This is in no way a violation of a constitutional right of the people using the product for free. Infact, people who are using products and not paying for them are violating other’s constitutional rights.

 

In addition, anyone who thinks that porn and the availability of it hasn’t in a way, corrupted society, is kidding themselves. There is more child pornography then ever and it’s infact a multi-billion dollar business. How scarey and sad is that.

 

The advent of the internet makes things more wide spread and easier. If you don’t think young kids aren’t seeing porn that has become increasingly degrading and opulent in the digital world, you are kidding yourselves. The way society today interacts with porn is different then 30 years ago when it was a magazine or video you had to leave your house for. Not being honest about these changes in how we use and preceive porn is plain silly.

 

It seems to me that some think its okay to spit, slap or choke a woman as long as a men out there garner sexual pleasure from it. In the 1950s, would we have even been talking about spitting, slapping or choking women with the normalcy we talk of it today? How come these are things that are no longer shocking to us? We’ve all apparently had enough exposure to this kind of debasement of women either through visual media or through discussions of porn where these actions were discussed.

 

Be honest, how many men think that men are viewing "softcore" porn compared to "hardcore"? I would safely bet my house that men spend more time on hardcore then softcore. Porn teaches us that women are less then human and deserving of being abused. And men who watch it sit by and do nothing but hold their penis in their hand and contribute to the debasement of women. That's the ugly truth no one wants to admit. That's the ugly truth men don't want to admit to themselves. That their lust for porn overrules how they choose to treat women.

[Ocktus]

What on earth is going on in this thread? If it's not about banning porn then the wording of OP is the worst I've seen. It should say: ban all websites and hubs of illegal file sharing. Illegal porn is already illegal, sharing a porn movie you don't own the rights to is just as illegal as doing the same with music. Did you realize that many of the streamed porn is made by amateurs or is promo material for a full length porn film, and isn't under any copy protection. Also Jersey, Porn might be a multi-billion dollar industry, but child porn most certainly is not.

 

You might considering changing social circles if people around you are talking of spitting at or choking women with normalcy? I've never heard anyone talk of such things, and I've played organized sports and gone to high school and college during the internet porn era. Also, it might come as a surprise to you but some women actually enjoy a little rougher sex that can include mild choking, not to say that it's a sign of a well adjusted individual.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

What on earth is going on in this thread? If it's not about banning porn then the wording of OP is the worst I've seen. It should say: ban all websites and hubs of illegal file sharing. Illegal porn is already illegal, sharing a porn movie you don't own the rights to is just as illegal as doing the same with music. Did you realize that many of the streamed porn is made by amateurs or is promo material for a full length porn film, and isn't under any copy protection. Also Jersey, Porn might be a multi-billion dollar industry, but child porn most certainly is not.

 

You might considering changing social circles if people around you are talking of spitting at or choking women with normalcy? I've never heard anyone talk of such things, and I've played organized sports and gone to high school and college during the internet porn era. Also, it might come as a surprise to you but some women actually enjoy a little rougher sex that can include mild choking, not to say that it's a sign of a well adjusted individual.

 

Its ok Ocktus its better for us if its all banned after all no one can think for them selves anymore dont you know?

 

Oh and ALL porn is truly evil in Jerseys eyes its all the same ok im off to draft some more unrelated speaches about consitutional rights!

[Jersey Shortie]

If it's not about banning porn then the wording of OP is the worst I've seen. It should say: ban all websites and hubs of illegal file sharing.

 

Des wanted to talk about porn specifically. That shouldn't be an issue. All you need to do is read the actual thread to see she isn't advocating banning of porn. It's not that difficult to comprehend.

 

Illegal porn is already illegal, sharing a porn movie you don't own the rights to is just as illegal as doing the same with music. Did you realize that many of the streamed porn is made by amateurs or is promo material for a full length porn film, and isn't under any copy protection.

 

That's not what is even being discussed. No one made a case and said uncopy right protected material can't be posted or used. Why even bring this up?

 

Also Jersey, Porn might be a multi-billion dollar industry, but child porn most certainly is not.

 

I'm pretty sure it's a high number. Maybe multi-million. I have to do some research on it when I get home to find the exact number. Can't right now.

 

You might considering changing social circles if people around you are talking of spitting at or choking women with normalcy

 

No, people don't talk about these things in polite conversation. I am refering to our discussions *online* where no one seems particularly shocked to hear these things mentioned or where it *does* seem a good portion of the public has been exposed to this material or discussions of this material at some point. And you avoided a key question, how many men do you think spend more time seeking out "hardcore" porn then "softcore"? Lets not play innocent that people don't infact know these things appear in porn in more regularity, more mainstream. It's popularity as grown for a reason.

 

Also, it might come as a surprise to you but some women actually enjoy a little rougher sex that can include mild choking, not to say that it's a sign of a well adjusted individual.

 

Again, never said different. Fail to see what this has to do with what I said though. Or what people like in the confines of their bedroom, have to do with a public media.

 

Overall, I think your post is off topic all around.

[Woggle]

As long as it is not kiddie porn and women are not being forced against their will people need to mind their business.

[Jersey Shortie]

Its ok Ocktus its better for us if its all banned after all no one can think for them selves anymore dont you know?

 

Oh and ALL porn is truly evil in Jerseys eyes its all the same ok im off to draft some more unrelated speaches about consitutional rights!

LOL. If you knew anything, you would know that I don't agree with banning porn. Something I've said on this board more then once. I don't think by default of something not being availble, that that makes for a better society.

 

You can over-extrapolite my view point to make it come off a certain way, but you are only making yourself look ridiculous by not being able to have an intelligent debate.

 

You aren't even disagreeing with my points, which is fine discussion, you're just filling up space with personal attacks that hold no merit.

[hats]

It would be nice if it were really possible to protect intellectual property to the extent that OP wants, but it's just not happening. I think OP thinks that the only reason we haven't found a solution is that people aren't outraged enough and there isn't enough attention being paid to the issue. But there's an even greater incentive that's already at work. Money. The entertainment industry has all the resources and everything at stake to fix this and they still can't. Unless you have an effective solution there's not much point in complaining about it.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

LOL. If you knew anything, you would know that I don't agree with banning porn. Something I've said on this board more then once. I don't think by default of something not being availble, that that makes for a better society.

 

You can over-extrapolite my view point to make it come off a certain way, but you are only making yourself look ridiculous by not being able to have an intelligent debate.

 

You aren't even disagreeing with my points, which is fine discussion, you're just filling up space with personal attacks that hold no merit.

 

I NEVER attacked you or any one else on here personalty Jersey not like you have done to me here feel better now? got that venom flowing?

 

In all fairness you took the 1st pot shot not me but I would have thought some one with such a superiour intelegence would have realised that go figure!

 

Im not going to feed your ego by argureing with you here thats not my thing I may joke in my own way but im not a crewel spirited person.

 

I unlike you I suspect have nothing to prove I come here to genuinely help others when I can so you win Jersey congrats good on ya lol..

Edited June 22, 2010 by SpanksTheMonkey

[Ocktus]

Des wanted to talk about porn specifically. That shouldn't be an issue. All you need to do is read the actual thread to see she isn't advocating banning of porn. It's not that difficult to comprehend.

Des is talking of the negative effect of porn on dating and relationships. According to her it "violates constitutional obscenity laws" and then she goes on to say that hardcore porn has a degrading effect on society. That's just a few examples that make no sense if we are just talking of legality of sharing copyright protected content - why then bring out all the negative effects of porn, or is the illegal sharing of porn worse than that of music?

 

At the very least both of you are unaware of what hardcore porn means. To make it easy for you: Hardcore = explicit sexual acts, Softcore = nudity. Not all hardcore porn exhibits degradation of women, unless you consider the act of sex that.

 

That's not what is even being discussed. No one made a case and said uncopy right protected material can't be posted or used. Why even bring this up?

 

"Illegal porn is where you can type a few sexual words into Google, and find a website full of porn videos to watch for free." is what the OP said, that's why I argued that that isn't the case. Many of the porn quickly accessible through search engines is not under any copy protection.

 

No, people don't talk about these things in polite conversation. I am refering to our discussions *online* where no one seems particularly shocked to hear these things mentioned or where it *does* seem a good portion of the public has been exposed to this material or discussions of this material at some point. And you avoided a key question, how many men do you think spend more time seeking out "hardcore" porn then "softcore"? Lets not play innocent that people don't infact know these things appear in porn in more regularity, more mainstream. It's popularity as grown for a reason.

 

And what does that suggest to you about human nature? We tend to keep our thoughts society wouldn't accept hidden. They all come out on the internet because of it's anonymity. The reason you didn't hear about these things spoken before the birth of the internet, was because talking about them would have been a social suicide.

 

Are you saying there is something wrong with hardcore porn? Hardcore porn itself does not mean the woman gets spat on - it just means that an actual sex act has been filmed.

 

Again, never said different. Fail to see what this has to do with what I said though. Or what people like in the confines of their bedroom, have to do with a public media.

 

The point is that both genders can get equal kicks out of the act, and why should this aspect of sex be banned from public media. Do you think you or anyone else is in the position to arbitrarily pick where the line goes between acceptable and unacceptable porn.

 

Overall, I think your post is off topic all around.

 

Overall I think your post is pretty funny.

[Des]

Didn't feel a great need to comment in this thread until I saw SpanksTheMonkey's "All Whites" avatar. Primo Supremo! Mate, I take my hat off to you.

 

Go the mighty All Whites!!!

 

 

.

 

Don't feel the need to comment? Well, I was almost sure you'd be more for this than any sort of down talking a porn in a general sense. Always asking me where my solution is, well, here it is.