Banning illegal porn, your thoughts? (yes, a porn thread)

[Des]

If all you can do is complain that it's another porn thread, then please, don't comment. This is a serious thread and I thought since there is such an amount of healthy discussion on the subject here (and often proves itself to be a significant problem in dating and relationships), it would be interesting to get some people thinking about this. To get some impressions, or thoughts.

 

Just a few days ago, there was a formal briefing held at the U.S. Capital Hill regarding Internet porn, and how it violates constitutional obscenity laws in it's current fashion, violates copyright laws, the nature of this hardcore porn and how it is degrading society. As told by many credible and knowledgeable professionals.

 

I've been on to this idea for quite a while myself, that the war to taking back society and culture, to fight porn, is to fight "illegal" porn. What is illegal porn? Illegal porn is where you can type a few sexual words into Google, and find a website full of porn videos to watch for free. Tons of free porn posted by people who ripped/stole/downloaded it and re-uploaded it to the free "streaming" sites. It's illegal in the sense that it violates copyright laws, and violates US obscenity laws. It's basically distribution of obscene material to the public. I hate it the most, in the way it's eroding our culture and society, but I'm also against theft.

 

If you are at all Internet savvy or aware of the current state of modern pornography, you know that about 90% of young adult and minor viewer-ship of porn on the Internet, is through these illegal means. You know that the bulk of this content now produced by the porn industry, is mostly of an abusive, violent, or degrading nature towards women, and that much of this content is free on the Internet. With a study that showed at least 90% of actual purchased pornography, contained at least one instance of verbal or physical aggression or abuse towards the female. Imagine what a statistic would show on the free-for-all of illegal porn available on the Internet. I think the facts often speak for themselves when these videos are invariably "rated" in a positive manner by users of these websites, via the rating system they provide on these website themselves.

 

I feel that the US law upholding it's ban on obscenity and copyright laws, would put a much needed end to the erosion of our society in regards to porn and porn culture... I believe porn culture is synonymous with this late "free" distribution of porn. There is nothing wrong in saying we're not entitled to something that does not rightfully belong to us. And in doing so, it would set us back to the era of 1980s and 1990s with regards to porn distribution, which I feel, would work wonders for future generations. To re-enter a state where minors and young adults aren't peddled and bombarded with free porn, and porn of a violent and degrading nature no less. Back to the era of buying physical media or an otherwise pirate proof digital format, in a non-anonymous fashion. I feel this would rid so much of our current problem, if it were effectively enforced by law.

 

I really hope that something is done, that action is taken.

 

How would you feel if something were actually done about it? I'm curious to see what the men and women LS think.

Edited June 22, 2010 by Des

[kiss_andmakeup]

Anti-piracy laws have been in effect for a long time and have had virtually no effect on the ease of finding and downloading movies, TV shows, and music for free on the internet. Why would porn be any different?

[Des]

Anti-piracy laws have been in effect for a long time and have had virtually no effect on the ease of finding and downloading movies, TV shows, and music for free on the internet. Why would porn be any different?

 

Because they are all serious problems in themselves. But more so, our government should be (and I believe is) more concerned with the potential harm that distribution of obscenity to minors for free can cause. The current laws, as they stand, say that this rampant free Internet porn is illegal in that sense. Not to say the piracy in the digital age isn't something that also needs to be addressed and taken seriously by our government. It's putting a huge strain on many industries.

 

It's all become so much a problem, it can't be avoided forever.

 

EDIT:

 

If you want to see this briefing, you can view it by searching "Capital Hill porn briefing" on YouTube, there are several parts.

Edited June 22, 2010 by Des

[Pfiend101]

I pay for the internet. No one should be able to tell me what I can and can't do on it.

[Art_Critic]

We can only regulate our own borders and the servers or companies that reside inside those borders..

 

Porn companies just would set up shop in another country that doesn't have laws regarding it or doesn't have extradition laws.

 

The argument doesn't hold any water concerning the internet because it is a world wide audience and most of that audience are not under the jurisdiction of any one country's laws.

 

This problem also filters into all illegal internet activities and not only just porn

[LucreziaBorgia]

I'm not sure how the US would go about it. Free porn from servers that are not located in the US can't be policed by the US. They can ban it, but outside of taking the direction of censorship like China has, there really isn't anything that can be effectively enforced.

 

In a case of obscenity being available to minors, well - shouldn't the parents be responsible for that? Strict monitoring of computer use, no computer use outside of direct parental observation, net-nanny locks, no computer use when the parents aren't home, etc. Library and school libraries are fairly safe as well. If the parents are strict with computer use, to the point of only letting kids use computers when they are sitting in front of their parents - then it would be a little more difficult for them to peek at porn, eh?

Edited June 22, 2010 by LucreziaBorgia

[Des]

We can only regulate our own borders and the servers or companies that reside inside those borders..

 

Porn companies just would set up shop in another country that doesn't have laws regarding it or doesn't have extradition laws.

 

The argument doesn't hold any water concerning the internet because it is a world wide audience and most of that audience are not under the jurisdiction of any one country's laws.

 

This problem also filters into all illegal internet activities and not only just porn

 

You seem to misunderstand. It isn't the porn company, or the distributors putting this illegal porn out. In fact, the porn industry is largely against their product being stolen, and loosing profit.

 

It varies from country to country, in some countries, certain Internet content is blocked and made illegal. Within our nation, as well as other developed nations hopefully, illegal porn could become content blocked or otherwise made illegal to access here. It wouldn't matter where the site developers set up, I wouldn't think.

 

Again, this is not about the production of porn, it's about the distribution and means of access to it that is illegal, and should be enforced.

[marsle85]

There are plenty of matters that require government attention and funding... I consider this a rather futile facet. Seems to me, the investment to eliminate "illegal porn" is less needed and efficient in the cause to prevent and protect women from discriminant and abusive relationships, than actually addressing real cases of verbal and physical abuse that already exist.

[Des]

I'm not sure how the US would go about it. Free porn from servers that are not located in the US can't be policed by the US. They can ban it, but outside of taking the direction of censorship like China has, there really isn't anything that can be effectively enforced.

 

In a case of obscenity being available to minors, well - shouldn't the parents be responsible for that? Strict monitoring of computer use, no computer use outside of direct parental observation, net-nanny locks, no computer use when the parents aren't home, etc. Library and school libraries are fairly safe as well. If the parents are strict with computer use, to the point of only letting kids use computers when they are sitting in front of their parents - then it would be a little more difficult for them to peek at porn, eh?

 

I really don't see how censorship has much to do with upholding these laws in regards to illegal distribution of so called "free speech". Obscenity, according of the US Supreme Court, is not protected by our free speech laws anyway. Again, the issues at hand are, distribution of obscenity, and copyright infringement. I don't see putting an end to that as being "censorship", even if it's by governmental force. It isn't about telling people what they can view or what they can contribute to the Internet, it's about how they do that.

 

No, the parents should not be responsible for illegally pirated and easily accessible porn on the Internet. That is not their problem. It's a simple matter of breaking the laws. Regardless of whether just minors see it, it's illegal, again, in multiple ways. Adults aren't entitled to pirated content, just because we're living in the digital age. And I think it's naive to think that nothing will ever be done about it.

[Jilly Bean]

What does this have to do with dating?

[Des]

There are plenty of matters that require government attention and funding... I consider this a rather futile facet. Seems to me, the investment to eliminate "illegal porn" is less needed and efficient in the cause to prevent and protect women from discriminant and abusive relationships, than actually addressing real cases of verbal and physical abuse that already exist.

 

Then I would say you have little knowledge or experience with the subject. If you are suggesting it's a non-issue, or even remotely unimportant issue. It's ever bit as equally important. There are already efforts for those other causes, there are none for illegal porn. And by the way, many of these videos do include very real acts of verbal and physical abuse, it sounds like you're trying to play it down just because it's in porn.

[Des]

What does this have to do with dating?

 

Read the very first paragraph.

[Des]

I pay for the internet. No one should be able to tell me what I can and can't do on it.

 

Yes, they can tell you that you can't engage in illegal activity on it. Such as pirated content.

[ADF]

You know what I'd like to know? Where is all this evidence that pornography does terrible to minors--or anyone else for that matter? It is just taken for granted that pornography causes harm. What evidence--and I mean credible, scientific evidence, not angry screeds by anti-porn crusaders--is there?

[Des]

You know what I'd like to know? Where is all this evidence that pornography does terrible to minors--or anyone else for that matter? It is just taken for granted that pornography causes harm. What evidence--and I mean credible, scientific evidence, not angry screeds by anti-porn crusaders--is there?

 

I will refer you to doctors such as Sharon Cooper (who spoke in the briefing), as well as other doctors and psychologists with degrees, if common sense and real world experience can't convince you.

 

Anyways, I think that's ridiculous to even discuss. It's just going to derail the thread away from the core points.

[ADF]

I will refer you to doctors such as Sharon Cooper (who spoke in the briefing), as well as other doctors and psychologists with degrees, if common sense and real world experience can't convince you.

 

Anyways, I think that's ridiculous to even discuss. It's just going to derail the thread away from the core points.

 

But that's exactly my point. For too long "common sense" and "real world experience" have been used in place of hard data. It seems so intuitively obvious to everyone that porn MUST be harmful, that no one really presents any evidence. They have the same attitude you do--that even asking the question is "ridiculous."

 

And Cooper does work on child porn. Producing child porn is a crime in and of itself, because it involves people under the age of consent.

Edited June 22, 2010 by ADF

[Des]

But that's exactly my point. For too long "common sense" and "real world experience" have been used in place of hard data. It seems so intuitively obvious to everyone that porn MUST be harmful, that no one really presents any evidence. They have the same attitude you do--that even asking the question is "ridiculous."

 

And Cooper does work on child porn. Producing child porn is a crime in and of itself, because it involves people under the age of consent.

 

What does common sense tell you about a young boy seeing a woman being slapped, spit on, enduring punishing sexual acts, and being called worthless as among his first impressions of sexuality and women? What does common sense tell you of persistent viewing of this kind of content by anyone of any age? If the answer is "nothing". Then, please refer to the recent studies of psychologists like Sharon Cooper among others.

 

I would suggest watching the entire briefing. Especially Mary Anne Layden's findings if you want to know more in the general psychology of it.

Edited June 22, 2010 by Des

[ADF]

What does common sense tell you about a young boy seeing a women being slapped, spit on, enduring punishing sexual acts, and being called worthless as among his first impressions of sexuality and women? What does common sense tell you of persistent viewing of this kind of content by anyone of any age? If the answer is "nothing". Then, please refer to the recent studies of psychologists like Sharon Cooper among others.

 

I would suggest watching the entire briefing. Especially Mary Anne Layden's findings if you want to know more in the general psychology of it.

 

Hey, I agree it is a compelling hypothesis. There is plenty of porn I find offensive, and some I find downright revolting. It may well be harmful.

 

Or it may not.

 

My point is that we ought to have hard evidence one way or the other before we open up a discussion about what to do about it.

[Des]

Hey, I agree it is a compelling hypothesis. There is plenty of porn I find offensive, and some I find downright revolting. It may well be harmful.

 

Or it may not.

 

My point is that we ought to have hard evidence one way or the other before we open up a discussion about what to do about it.

 

We have "compelling evidence", but by your standard, not "hard evidence". If compelling evidence plus common sense isn't enough. You are asking them nothing short of proving the theory of gravity.

 

The fact of the matter is, this porn you find "revolting" is rampant in free form, which is also illegal. To allow it to be available to our youth, and young adults included in this fashion, is the same as allowing street vendors to sell hard drugs of any kind, and any customer is fair game. The psychology and addiction concerning porn has been studied on many levels, and again, the evidence is compelling. I would recommend Mary Anne Layden's speech at that briefing. Drugs that alter are physical and mental state do no need to be an ingested substance. I think case, the brain is effected through visual stimulation.

Edited June 22, 2010 by Des

[ADF]

We have "compelling evidence", but by your standard, not "hard evidence". If compelling evidence plus common sense isn't enough. You are asking them nothing short of proving the theory of gravity.

 

The fact of the matter is, this porn you find "revolting" is rampant in free form, which is also illegal. To allow it to be available to our youth, and young adults included in this fashion, is the same as street vendors to sell hard drugs and any customer is fair game. The psychology and addiction concerning porn has been studied on many levels, and again, the evidence is compelling. I would recommend Mary Anne Layden's speech at that briefing.

 

But you see, I would argue that criminalizing drugs is a mistake.

 

That is in no way to deny that drugs can be harmful--the evidence that drugs can be harmful is indeed airtight. But criminalization--i.e. attempting to restrict access--hasn't done a thing to stem drug use. All it has done is create a black market.

 

But I will check out your briefing.

[somedude81]

Read the very first paragraph.

Still doesn't change the fact that this thread is in the wrong subforum...

 

Frankly I love me some "illegal porn." The free 'tube' sites are the best thing that ever happened to me porn wise.

 

Getting rid of those sites isn't going to change anything simply because there are other ways to obtain porn.

 

If porn makers want to turn a profit again, they need to look at emerging technologies. 3D porn would be quite a trip.

[Des]

But you see, I would argue that criminalizing drugs is a mistake.

 

That is in no way to deny that drugs can be harmful--the evidence that drugs can be harmful is indeed airtight. But criminalization--i.e. attempting to restrict access--hasn't done a thing to stem drug use. All it has done is create a black market.

 

But I will check out your briefing.

 

I believe that's because our government doesn't have the know how, nor have they really tried to crack down on drugs. It's a matter for the most part, of securing national boarders. Then, there are laws in place that restrict the government from "unlawful search and seizure", among others that hold them back in area's they are sure to be problematic.

 

I believe that in a state were they would be legal and rampant, there certainly would be more harm done than there is currently. The "black market" of porn, so to speak, is what I'm referring to. It's alive and kicking.

[Des]

Still doesn't change the fact that this thread is in the wrong subforum...

 

Frankly I love me some "illegal porn." The free 'tube' sites are the best thing that ever happened to me porn wise.

 

Getting rid of those sites isn't going to change anything simply because there are other ways to obtain porn.

 

If porn makers want to turn a profit again, they need to look at emerging technologies. 3D porn would be quite a trip.

 

I'm sorry, but I think you're part of the problem here. If you love your porn so much, you should pay for it like a law abiding citizen is supposed to.

 

I'm talking of ridding illegal porn in all forms on the Internet. If nothing can be done in it's current state, then maybe a new form of technology could help enforce it. Or maybe something enforced by law at the ISP level.

 

If anyone wants to turn a profit again, or have a job, the digital age free ride has to end. Who's to say 3D this or that, wouldn't be pirated on day one?

[ADF]

I believe that's because our government doesn't have the know how, nor have they really tried to crack down on drugs. It's a matter for the most part, of securing national boarders. Then, there are laws in place that restrict the government from "unlawful search and seizure", among others that hold them back in area's they are sure to be problematic.

 

I believe that in a state were they would be legal and rampant, there certainly would be more harm done than there is currently. The "black market" of porn, so to speak, is what I'm referring to. It's alive and kicking.

 

I promise you, there is not a single person in America who wants to get high who cannot because drugs are illegal. Not one. Everyone who wants to use drugs is already doing so, and will continue to do so whether they are legal or illegal. No one is not doing drugs because they are illegal.

 

And the US government has been cracking down on drugs for 40 years. The first "War On Drugs" was launched in the 2nd Nixon Administration. All it's done is fill the jails with people who shouldn't be there. The US locks up more people than anyone else in the world--even China. 1 out of every 4 prisoners on the PLANET is in a US prison.

 

The prospects of a war on porn are even worse than the prospects of a war on drugs. At least with a war on drugs, there is a physical substance that can be interdicted--sometimes. Porn is just data flying through cyberspace. Good luck with that.

[marsle85]

Then I would say you have little knowledge or experience with the subject. If you are suggesting it's a non-issue, or even remotely unimportant issue. It's ever bit as equally important. There are already efforts for those other causes, there are none for illegal porn. And by the way, many of these videos do include very real acts of verbal and physical abuse, it sounds like you're trying to play it down just because it's in porn.

 

 

I beg to differ. I'm a student of psychology... mainly women's studies, sexuality and gender differences. I never said it was a "non issue", nor did I imply it was "unimportant," I said it was futile. As others have mentioned, piracy is nearly unbeatable... it's simply just an effective goal.

 

And no, "illegal pornography" is not as equally as important as cases of physical, verbal and sexual abuse reported daily. No, I don't think funding dedicated to banning illegal porn would benefit women and children as much as generating and preserving preventative abuse programs, safe-houses and other forms of education. I believe you know your stuff, but I also believe your honorable, and absolutely valid perspective is not entirely realistic.

 

Yes, many of those videos do capture discriminant, repulsive behaviors. However these disgusting acts are not limited to pornography. For every porno that disgraces women, I could find you media that reflects another form of abuse. I think you're trying to "play it up" just because it is porn.