Should I quite while I'm ahead?

[Windsurf66]

Who died and left you in charge? Buzz off.

 

I don't see a lot of people here buying into your privacy advocacy bull****. Its for you, the minority and abnormal one, to fu*k off

[Dexter Morgan]

I've never defended cheating. In fact, I've condemned it, strongly.

 

I think you're confused. What you're mistaking for support for cheating is my belief in respecting other people's privacy.

 

No, I don't think the fact someone found out their BF/GF was cheating justifies the fact they broke into their email, installed spyware on their computer, snooped through their phone records, hid a voice-activated mic in their car, bugged their house, or whatever. I just don't buy into this The-End-Justifies-The-Means mentality. I realize that puts me in the minority on LS. But it is a minority I am proud to belong to.

 

so once caught, you still don't think that the cheater should be an open book and give the person they betrayed access to electronic accounts if that is the expectation for not kicking them to the curb?

[ADF]

Actually, based on the story you told, you would probably have personally benefited from being a little more inquisitive.

 

Am I correct in interpreting your story as being that you were living in a lesbian relationship with a woman who was having a correspondence/emotional affair with an incarcerated felon, and when the felon got released, dumped you?

 

I'm unsure of your gender. Sometimes it seems like you are taking a female perspective, sometimes a male perspective.

 

Even if you were in a hetero relationship at the time you would have benefited from being more inquisitive, that is, more attentive to what is going on around you.

 

Sometimes people with very strong personal principles get so wrapped up in themselves and their own inner thought processes that they lose sight of the reality of what is going on all around them.

 

This can be very isolating, and reacting overly-defensively to others who express differing opinions is part of that self-isolating behavior.

 

IMO it's not very healthy though.

 

Good luck with your current relationship.

 

I am a man, and it was a heterosexual relationship.

 

Would I have personally benefited from snooping? Yes, absolutely! Had I read her letters, I would have found out what was going on a lot sooner.

 

But you cannot go through life with the idea that "right" is whatever benefits you, and "wrong" is whatever doesn't. That's just a cynical, self-serving attitude. Other people are just as real as you are, and you cannot disregard their rights just because doing so would be convenient.

 

I mean, would you steal from someone just because you thought you could away with it? I doubt you would. It's the same thing with violating someone's privacy. The fact it would benefit you doesn't mean you have a right to do it. Honestly, I don't know why people have such a hard time grasping that.

[Windsurf66]

I am a man, and it was a heterosexual relationship.

 

Would I have personally benefited from snooping? Yes, absolutely! Had I read her letters, I would have found out what was going on a lot sooner.

 

But you cannot go through life with the idea that "right" is whatever benefits you, and "wrong" is whatever doesn't. That's just a cynical, self-serving attitude. Other people are just as real as you are, and you cannot disregard their rights just because doing so would be convenient.

 

I mean, would you steal from someone just because you thought you could away with it? I doubt you would. It's the same thing with violating someone's privacy. The fact it would benefit you doesn't mean you have a right to do it. Honestly, I don't know why people have such a hard time grasping that.

 

I think it is you who do not get and still riding around LS on your high horse of "principles" & "values". If your expectations in a marriage is maintaining privacy and secrecy, that is your expectations, as the minority here. Do not sit on your hypocritical horse, riding around and putting others down.

 

And unlike you, the judge (or GOD?) riding on the high horse, I wouldn't tell people its right or wrong. Just expectations in a marriage. If you and your partner expects privacy and secrecy in the marriage, thats your problem, go ahead with it

[Windsurf66]

And btw, using stealing as an analogy is totally brainless. If you are caught stealing, the police will lock you away. Its a crime. Try calling the police if your partner reads your handphone messages or got a PI to follow you

[ADF]

And btw, using stealing as an analogy is totally brainless. If you are caught stealing, the police will lock you away. Its a crime. Try calling the police if your partner reads your handphone messages or got a PI to follow you

 

Both stealing and snooping involve a willfull violation of another person's rights to gain personal advantage. I was making an ethical point, not a legal one. I am sorry you need the threat of prison to make respecting another person's rights seem worthwhile.

 

And BTW, snooping can be a crime, depending on the circumstances. For example, opening another person's mail without permission is a federal offense. In certain states, tapping a phone or recording a conversation without the other person's knowledge can also be a criminal act. It depends on whether the state in question follows the one-party rule or the two-party rule. Look up the difference, if you're interested.

[Windsurf66]

Both stealing and snooping involve a willfull violation of another person's rights to gain personal advantage. I was making an ethical point, not a legal one. I am sorry you need the threat of prison to make respecting another person's rights seem worthwhile.

 

And BTW, snooping can be a crime, depending on the circumstances. For example, opening another person's mail without permission is a federal offense. In certain states, tapping a phone or recording a conversation without the other person's knowledge can also be a criminal act. It depends on whether the state in question follows the one-party rule or the two-party rule. Look up the difference, if you're interested.

 

Thats bullsh*t again. Stealing is clearly wrong, that is taking something that clearly does not belong to you. Snooping on a person who is unrelated to you is wrong. But a spouse is not an unrelated person. When people get married, they give up certain rights, i.e. the rights to date around, screw around, secrecy.

 

It is your definition of marriage, which includes privacy and secrecy, which is abnormal and diff from the majority. I wouldn't argue with you right or wrong, ethical or unethical, since your expectations of a marriage is clearly diff from the rest.

 

So the same goes for you, keep your privacy advocacy bullsh*t to yourself and if you insist on riding your high horse around and calling others unethical, no morals, no values, no principles, I would say to you once again, fuc*k off

[Art_Critic]

Thats bullsh*t again. Stealing is clearly wrong, that is taking something that clearly does not belong to you. Snooping on a person who is unrelated to you is wrong. But a spouse is not an unrelated person. When people get married, they give up certain rights, i.e. the rights to date around, screw around, secrecy.

 

It is your definition of marriage, which includes privacy and secrecy, which is abnormal and diff from the majority. I wouldn't argue with you right or wrong, ethical or unethical, since your expectations of a marriage is clearly diff from the rest.

 

I think in the OP they are not married or living together and are only BF-GF.

 

oh.. and being married doesn't mean you give up all rights to personal privacy..

[Windsurf66]

I think in the OP they are not married or living together and are only BF-GF.

 

oh.. and being married doesn't mean you give up all rights to personal privacy..

 

Yes, every marriage is diff and up to the couple to define their rules and boundaries. There are even open marriage where the couple is free to screw around openly. My problem is with ADF riding his high horse acting like a judge or GOD around calling others no principles, no values etc just because he expects privacy and secrecy in HIS marriage.

[ADF]

It is your definition of marriage, which includes privacy and secrecy, which is abnormal and diff from the majority. I wouldn't argue with you right or wrong, ethical or unethical, since your expectations of a marriage is clearly diff from the rest.

 

Funny, I don't remember giving a definition of marriage.

 

Obviously, excessive secrecy can be damaging to a marriage. It can be damaging to any relationship--fraternal, platonic, professional, or otherwise.

 

But asserting a blanket right of surveillence over another human being is even more damaging. When someone insists on a right to read someone else's mail, bug their phone, hide a voice activated mike in their car, monitor their computer and cell phone, etc, they send a very clear message: "I don't trust you. I'll never trust you. You're probably a liar and cheater, and I need to keep you firmly under my thumb." If you want to call that a "marriage," go ahead. But I wouldn't. That's a hostage situation.

 

keep your privacy advocacy bullsh*t to yourself...fuc*k off

 

Thanks for the suggestion. But no, I don't think I will.

[ADF]

so once caught, you still don't think that the cheater should be an open book and give the person they betrayed access to electronic accounts if that is the expectation for not kicking them to the curb?

 

Other people can do as they like. But if someone cheated on me, I'd just dump their sorry butt. I cannot imagine wanting to spend the rest of my life keeping someone else--someone I supposedly "love"--under constant surveillence. I don't understand why anyone would want to have a relationship under those circumstances.

[Dexter Morgan]

Other people can do as they like. But if someone cheated on me, I'd just dump their sorry butt. I cannot imagine wanting to spend the rest of my life keeping someone else--someone I supposedly "love"--under constant surveillence.

 

I agree and am completely with ya on that one.

 

But thats not what I asked. There are clearly people out there, for whatever reason, that want to give a 2nd chance to a cheater. And there are cheaters that want a 2nd chance.

 

So if a 2nd chance is given, the cheater should expect, at least for some period of time, to lose some privacy if they are to prove to their victim that they can be an open book and have nothing to hide from that point on.

[ADF]

I agree and am completely with ya on that one.

 

But thats not what I asked. There are clearly people out there, for whatever reason, that want to give a 2nd chance to a cheater. And there are cheaters that want a 2nd chance.

 

So if a 2nd chance is given, the cheater should expect, at least for some period of time, to lose some privacy if they are to prove to their victim that they can be an open book and have nothing to hide from that point on.

 

It is a perfectly reasonable question, but I am not sure I am the best person to answer it.

 

To me, the prospect of having to keep my SO under hightened surveillance to prevent fruther cheating would be just one more reason NOT to continue the relationship. I try to imagine myself demanding email passwords, demanding to see phone records, and I just can't see it. I cannot see myself doing it. It would make me sick inside to be stay with anyone under such conditions.

 

When you decide to forgive someone a trangression, you have an obligation to let it go at some point. You can't keep it in your back pocket forever as a weapon to throw in their face the next time you get angry. If you cannot forget, you shouldn't forgive. It seems to me that keeping your SO under constant surveillance is really just a long, drawn-out form of punishment. You haven't really "forgiven" anything, nor have you forgotten. Again, why live that way?

Edited June 25, 2010 by ADF

[Mimolicious]

OP- in reality... YOU DIDN'T SNOOP! She left her FB open, you saw it, sucks to be her!

 

Mr. Mimolicious left his email wide open on OUR PC while he went to take a dump. I sat down to do some work, when I looked at the screen it was an email from his OW. I read it. He is now my exH. Was I snooping? NO! I didn't go and google the lastest password hacking app to crack into his email.

 

AND anyone here that wants to say that if they found their SO email, FB, etc opened they will close it and not "snoop", you guys are FULL OF SH*T! STOP LYING! You will look too!!!!!!!!!!!

 

QUIT while you are ahead is your question, right? I am not sure how ahead you are but to YES. Your GF is playing games. She's playing mind games with not only you but all those otehr guys that she is Facebooking. HA! That's only her FB inbox. I am afraid what her cell text inbox may have. DROP HER! She is not GF material and seems to have a lot of growing up to do, unless you want to a doormat. I'm just saying...

[Art_Critic]

AND anyone here that wants to say that if they found their SO email, FB, etc opened they will close it and not "snoop", you guys are FULL OF SH*T! STOP LYING! You will look too!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Actually I close my wifes all the time without looking at her email whenever I jump on her computer.

Why would I read her email and go thru her private words to her friends and family ?

That would be highly rude and would reek of mistrust..

Am I liar ??

 

I also do believe that in the OP she didn't leave the window up.. she left herself logged in by ACCIDENT.. so the cookie was set in the browser.. meaning when he visited FB on his computer it immediately logged her back in and he was looking at her FB account.

 

Oh.. and the OP already said he knew what he did was wrong in his opening post so at least to the OP he considers what he did wrong too.. it's just he snooped

Edited June 25, 2010 by Art_Critic

[ADF]

AND anyone here that wants to say that if they found their SO email, FB, etc opened they will close it and not "snoop", you guys are FULL OF SH*T! STOP LYING! You will look too!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Why, why, why does everyone assume everyone else in the world thinks like they do? It just isn't true. Oh, wait, I know why. Because that makes them feel more justified in what THEY do.

 

Where would you draw the line, Mim?

 

Let's say your SO kept a journal or diary and you knew where it was. Would you read it and tell yourself, "hey, anybody would do this?"

 

How about if your SO left some opened mail on the desk in their bedroom? Would you feel you had some automatic right to rifle through their mail?

 

Sorry, when I am dating someone, I assume I don't have to lock everything down every time I leave the house. I sort of trust the people I care about show a little bit of respect.

 

What's the solution? Frankly, I'm wondering if I should start saying, "okay, you say you have a right to spy on me? Fine. Then I say I have a right to knock your @#$% teeth out if I catch you."

 

Maybe reasoning with people like you really is pointless. Maybe you just need to be disciplined, like dogs.

[Stung]

Isn't there a middle ground between constant surveillance and refusing to take steps to protect yourself due to idealism?

 

I consider myself a principled person, and I value my right to privacy and that of my husband. I have never opened his mail or snooped through his phone, and I have in fact shut down his email when he left it open on my browser, without reading it. I have never snooped on any previous boyfriend, either.

 

However I can envision situations in which I might determine that my husband's right to privacy had become temporarily and regrettably forfeit; in other words, if push came to shove and I felt our marriage hung in the balance, yes, I might read his email or look through his phone. It wouldn't be my first recourse and I probably wouldn't feel proud of it, but I wouldn't do it unless I had what I considered pretty good reason, so I certainly wouldn't feel I had earned significant reproach, either.

 

Both sides of this debate are getting rather high-handed, IMO.

 

As for the OP: if she is a young attractive woman it's pretty normal for her inbox to be full, the question is how she handles that. As for her saying you weren't her boyfriend when you were dating but not yet committed--that sounds to me like possibly she had been waiting around for a commitment and was starting to feel a little bitter about it.

[Windsurf66]

Funny, I don't remember giving a definition of marriage.

 

Obviously, excessive secrecy can be damaging to a marriage. It can be damaging to any relationship--fraternal, platonic, professional, or otherwise.

 

But asserting a blanket right of surveillence over another human being is even more damaging. When someone insists on a right to read someone else's mail, bug their phone, hide a voice activated mike in their car, monitor their computer and cell phone, etc, they send a very clear message: "I don't trust you. I'll never trust you. You're probably a liar and cheater, and I need to keep you firmly under my thumb." If you want to call that a "marriage," go ahead. But I wouldn't. That's a hostage situation.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. But no, I don't think I will.

 

Its weird if a person checks on the partner constantly, in all areas and in every way, if the partner has done nothing absolutely nothing wrong and nothing suspicious. But the partner can choose to end the relationship if he/she is not agreeable.

 

But it isn't a hostage situation if the couple are both agreeable to transparency.

 

Or if one of the partner had cheated, it is expected that the partner will be an open book. Again, if the partner is NOT agreeable, the relationship can end. There is not hostage situation, no person is forced to stay in a relationship.

[Windsurf66]

Why, why, why does everyone assume everyone else in the world thinks like they do? It just isn't true. Oh, wait, I know why. Because that makes them feel more justified in what THEY do.

 

Where would you draw the line, Mim?

 

Let's say your SO kept a journal or diary and you knew where it was. Would you read it and tell yourself, "hey, anybody would do this?"

 

How about if your SO left some opened mail on the desk in their bedroom? Would you feel you had some automatic right to rifle through their mail?

 

Sorry, when I am dating someone, I assume I don't have to lock everything down every time I leave the house. I sort of trust the people I care about show a little bit of respect.

 

What's the solution? Frankly, I'm wondering if I should start saying, "okay, you say you have a right to spy on me? Fine. Then I say I have a right to knock your @#$% teeth out if I catch you."

 

Maybe reasoning with people like you really is pointless. Maybe you just need to be disciplined, like dogs.

 

If you have done nothing wrong, and your partner spies on you, and you don't like it, feel free to end the relationship? WHO ARE YOU to tell people what is ethical/unethical and how they should lead their lives based on your own moral code?

 

I agree its pointless to reason with mentally ill people here who treats human as dogs to be disciplined

[Windsurf66]

Isn't there a middle ground between constant surveillance and refusing to take steps to protect yourself due to idealism?

 

I consider myself a principled person, and I value my right to privacy and that of my husband. I have never opened his mail or snooped through his phone, and I have in fact shut down his email when he left it open on my browser, without reading it. I have never snooped on any previous boyfriend, either.

 

However I can envision situations in which I might determine that my husband's right to privacy had become temporarily and regrettably forfeit; in other words, if push came to shove and I felt our marriage hung in the balance, yes, I might read his email or look through his phone. It wouldn't be my first recourse and I probably wouldn't feel proud of it, but I wouldn't do it unless I had what I considered pretty good reason, so I certainly wouldn't feel I had earned significant reproach, either.

 

Both sides of this debate are getting rather high-handed, IMO.

 

As for the OP: if she is a young attractive woman it's pretty normal for her inbox to be full, the question is how she handles that. As for her saying you weren't her boyfriend when you were dating but not yet committed--that sounds to me like possibly she had been waiting around for a commitment and was starting to feel a little bitter about it.

 

Thanks Stung. The middle ground approach sounds good

[Mimolicious]

Why, why, why does everyone assume everyone else in the world thinks like they do? It just isn't true. Oh, wait, I know why. Because that makes them feel more justified in what THEY do.

 

Where would you draw the line, Mim?

 

Let's say your SO kept a journal or diary and you knew where it was. Would you read it and tell yourself, "hey, anybody would do this?"

 

How about if your SO left some opened mail on the desk in their bedroom? Would you feel you had some automatic right to rifle through their mail?

 

Sorry, when I am dating someone, I assume I don't have to lock everything down every time I leave the house. I sort of trust the people I care about show a little bit of respect.

 

What's the solution? Frankly, I'm wondering if I should start saying, "okay, you say you have a right to spy on me? Fine. Then I say I have a right to knock your @#$% teeth out if I catch you."

 

Maybe reasoning with people like you really is pointless. Maybe you just need to be disciplined, like dogs.

 

WHO THE HELL YOU'RE CALLING A "DOG"? Have some respect and a bit of that so call "discipline" that you are willing to give out... last I recall I was not posting in reply to anything that you said.

 

In 14 yrs that I spent in a R, I never opened his mail, checked his agenda, called his assistant to send me his schedule or snooped, spied, paid for PI nor bought expensive software to crack his *****. BUT ONE DAY... An opened screen with a catchy subject saved me to live in the dark for the rest of my life. SAVE YOUR ATTEMPT TO REASON WITH ME, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU COME OFF AS DISRESPECTFUL AS YOU DID.

 

Where do I draw the line? I don't snoop. I don't waste my energy and time searching for anything but in MY EXPERIENCE it happened and it was in a screen right in front of me... and guess what? I was in a M that I trusted and cared about my H and didn't disrespect his so call "PRIVACY" obviously he had much "Privacy" to entail an A so openly behind my back because I didn't SEARCH, SNOOPED or violated his PRIVACY. If you don't lock your stuff then you have nothing to hide. Good for you! People who normally flip their wig about their "Privacy" while in a R most of the time are hiding something. Like Stung said, if she had a reason to search she would. I didn't have a reason, I didn't search yet it was happening and I found the evidence without looking for it. THANK GOD!

 

I also do believe that in the OP she didn't leave the window up.. she left herself logged in by ACCIDENT.. so the cookie was set in the browser.. meaning when he visited FB on his computer it immediately logged her back in and he was looking at her FB account.

 

Art- yes FB does this but you would have to check the box to keep you logged in. It won't save the password unless you save the setting.

 

Let's say that you log into FB, don't realize that it is not your page for a nanosecond and quickly see a pic of your SO all up on a stranger... You mean to tell me that you are just going to X the page out? In respect to privacy? Really!

[Mimolicious]

As I said earlier, every person needs a little space somewhere in the universe which is wholly their own. You cannot live with your every thought and feeling subject to someone else's surveillance and expect to stay sane. Ask a North Korean.

 

 

 

 

Oh, that's already happened. In a big way, too.

 

When I was 21, I lived with a woman who regularly wrote letters to a convicted murderer serving a 15-year sentence for a gang-related killing. They had grown up in the same neighborhood, and she had been good friends with his sister.

 

To make a long story short, they had been carrying on a long-distance romance for some time, and made plans to marry after his release. My GF hid all this from me so I would keep helping her pay the rent. When our lease was up, she abruptly dumped me.

 

Could I have found proof of all this sooner by snooping? I am sure I could have. They exchanged letters regularly. I could have found them and read them when she wasn't around. But I didn't, because I was raised to respect other people's privacy.

 

As hard as it is for you to imagine, there are still people in the world who have values, principles. We don't all go through life thinking that what is right and what is fair is for us to get to do whatever we want. Not all of us live by your view--i.e. that the end justifies the means.

 

What's hard to imagine is that you would have actually found mail addressed to your GF with flying little hearts and "I love you" all over the place with a strangers sender's address and you were actually going to ignore the fact and respect her privacy. I find that very hard to believe and it has nothing to do with morals, principals, you being better than anyone else here, blah, blah, blah... It's the crushing pain that rushes through your heart, mind and body when you take your first bite at betrayal. Your lips tremble and your palms sweat. Your spine radiates heat from the adrenaline rush.

 

I forgot, you are too morally above us to go through such discovery...

 

Anyway, PO if your GF makes you feel any of the synthoms above with her FB flirting and being so needy of attention- DUMP HER!

[Reality Drip]

Quitting while you're ahead of what?

 

Listen, as long as women are alive and walking around they're going to be hit on, picked up, asked out, and/or engage in ONS. Just like men.

 

So you can get upset that she received a message but you can't prove she initiated that conversation. Just relax.

 

Trust until they prove they can't be trusted. No real cheating committed here as far as I can tell but don't go rummaging through her profiles anymore either. It'll just bring you down.

 

-Max