gentleguy Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 Hi all, I've been in a stable relationship for 15 years, married most of that time. My wife and I are both counsellors ourselves, and have often taught about "the folly of falling in love", instead promoting the idea of "become friends first then take the next step by choice". I'm putting out to this community for advice, or at least some perspectives and feedback, because I do have enough sense to know that I might not be capable of complete objectivity right now. Here's the problem - after all these years of taking the 'cool headed' approach to relationships, and living a peaceful life undisturbed by romantic afflictions, I find that I have fallen madly in love with a work colleague (second job, working for a lobby organisation). I've only known her for 4 months. I haven't 'fallen in lust' - I've been there before and know the difference - in this case, it's totally the full-blown idealistic romantic feeling, like the planet is so much better with this woman living on it. She's in my head most of my spare moments. This lady and I haven't spoken a lot about feelings so far, but we have both acknowledged a tremendous resonance between us, and we're spending several hours a week together. She is quickly warming to me and we're quickly getting to know each other. Things haven't turned physical - not yet anyway. This has blown my world apart. The dilemma is very disturbing. I've never ever cheated on a partner, or broken up with one partner to be with another. Integrity is very important to me. I am a very kind and sincere sort of guy, and have had pretty much zero women falling in love with me. In the past, I've usually copped the "I do love you... as a friend" speech. I can't stand hurting people. But in this situation, it seems that one or more people are going to get hurt no matter what. My marriage is a mixture of sleepy contentment and desperate stagnation, albeit with some moments of great happiness (eg when we do good counselling work with clients). On the other hand, in the few short weeks I've known this lady, I have come alive in ways I long thought I was incapable of. I'm feeling like a heavy dark wet anesthetic blanket is being lifted off and the world is reverting from dull grey shades back to vibrant color. I've been crying tears of joy several times a day. Thanks for reading this far, and sorry the message has been so long. If you've got any advice, I'm all ears. Thanks in advance gentleguy
LucreziaBorgia Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 As a counselor, you know the right thing to do particularly if integrity is as important to you as you say it is: divorce your wife because your marriage clearly isn't working for either of you. Then you will be free to explore other options. From the way you describe your marriage, your wife is probably not happy being stuck in such a stagnant situation either - set the both of you free to find a greater happiness elsewhere.
whichwayisup Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 You say it's a second job? 4 months you've known this OW? I say QUIT your secondary job and reconnect with your spouse of 15 years. Or, let your spouse know exactly what is going on and that you're confused. Maybe she feels the same way? Please don't cheat and throw away 15 years of marriage over someone you barely know. You're basing this on feelings and soulmate connection. Or, divorce your wife and then go pursue the other woman.
xxoo Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 Obvious question: How would you counsel a client in this situation? My marriage is a mixture of sleepy contentment and desperate stagnation, albeit with some moments of great happiness (eg when we do good counselling work with clients). Never forget that your wife is in the same content/desperate marriage. She deserves that acknowledgement. How unfair is it for you to have extramarital fun and thrills when your wife is staying loyal in your boring marriage? What I would do: Come to Jesus conversation with my spouse. Brutal honesty. There is this woman....she makes me glow with excitement....I don't feel that excitement in our marriage....I want that excitement. The honesty may hurt her, but far less than discovery of an affair, or sudden divorce. Find out how she feels. Find out if there is hope for that excitement in the marriage.
Green Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 I think you sound OUT OF CONTROL. Only you know what you should do. Obviously being HONEST and having RESPECT for yourself and others should be the way to go. I think if you were to leave your marriage BEING SINGLE at least until the DIVORCE is finalized would be the RIGHT THING TO DO. HONESTY doesn't mean going to your wife and saying "I've fallen in love with another woman" BUT if you have decided that you can no longer resist you should go to her and say "I can't stay committed to this marriage any more" You should also NOT PERSUE this woman you are in love with until after the DIVORCE if it so comes to that.
Ronni_W Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 gentleguy, I'm sorry that you're going through this. I get that it is one of those self-changing events, no matter what you choose to do about it. It can, but does not have to, also become a life-changing event. Crisis of Self and loss of faith in all that one used to hold dear -- it is a bumpy ride. Hugs, and best of luck.
JamesM Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 As has been said already, how would you counsel a client? Also, if you were in a happy marriage with your wife, would this woman look as appealing? Did you have these feelings for your wife and if you could get them back, who looks better and who has the better personality...this woman or your wife? Keep in mind that you do NOT know the negatives of this woman. No, you really don't. And last of all....if your wife had these feelings for another man (and she may have), what would you want her to do and how would you feel? Is this woman who you barely know worth losing your wife over? Sadly, despite what you think, the excitement inside is an infatuation. The excitement that you feel is so much more exciting because your marriage is not exciting. After twenty years of marriage, I can say that I have felt such feelings a couple of times. I have a choice...."grow that spark" or diminish it. So far I have never chosen to grow it. And I have found that while my marriage has certainly stagnated at times, it has also had times (like now) when the flames with my wife have been rekindled. I am guessing that you want to pursue this woman and I am also guessing that if you are like the majority, then if you do, then you will regret losing your wife. Either choice you make, please keep us updated.
Author gentleguy Posted June 21, 2010 Author Posted June 21, 2010 Do you have any children? No - we have no children. My wife is beyond childbearing years, and even without that, cannot have more kids. Her present kids are all grown up with their own families.
TaraMaiden Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 Forget what you do for a living. Forget this "stable marriage" crap. It's a lie. if it really was stable, this wouldn't even be in your head, let alone happening to you. counsellors are just as prone as any other human being on the planet to falling in love falling out of love, having marital problems, having affairs or divorcing. You might as well be a plumber for all the good your own counselling skills would be to you.... Forget what you'd counsel or suggest to a couple they do; this doesn't work, because you won't want to do it, and don't feel inclined to do it. What you'd really like is to have a wildly passionate and wonderful affair - and still be married to your wife, and either feel completely ok about it all, or have her be completely ok about it all. Well, this is it, then, isn't it? What are you going to do, huh? Whether you stay with your wife, or whether you decide to separate - You know exactly what the right thing to do would be. The big question is - do you have the balls to do it?
Author gentleguy Posted June 21, 2010 Author Posted June 21, 2010 From the way you describe your marriage, your wife is probably not happy being stuck in such a stagnant situation either - set the both of you free to find a greater happiness elsewhere. I hear you loud and clear. But there's an irony - my wife seems to be blissfully happy with me and tells me so. She is also very much a loner type, and hates to leave the house except for business or for her hobby. We haven't been on any kind of real 'date' together for 14 years. I try to encourage her out to concerts, dinner, dance, walks along the beach or in the forest, trips away etc, but she won't budge, and I have to deny myself these pleasures. I had been an accomplished musician, but my creativity in this environment has been virtually zero. She has so many endearing qualities though which have kept me close to her. She's an absolutely gifted counsellor - I was originally her client which was how we met. I then became her student, and shortly after the course started we started a relationship. It raised a few eyebrows around the place - many people found it strange that she's more than 10 years older than me, and that she hooked up with a client. But - she has helped me get breakthroughs in countless areas, and I owe most of my present emotional health and counselling ability to her. We have worked together and facilitated huge positive breakthroughs for hundreds of other people. I have built up close and trusting friendships with some of her children. On the other hand, she can be jealous and possessive, even at times emotionally abusive, particularly if I'm going out and doing any activity that she's not interested in. She doesn't like me having friends or activities outside the marriage. Also, people have told me that she was ethically culpable for entering into a personal relationship with a client/student. I feel that has made things hard - even now I haven't achieved a level playing field with her in terms of personal power. These details should hopefully help put things in more context. Sincerely, g
TaraMaiden Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 My point exactly. Care to rethink the "stable marriage" bit...?
Author gentleguy Posted June 21, 2010 Author Posted June 21, 2010 Forget what you do for a living. Forget this "stable marriage" crap. It's a lie. if it really was stable, this wouldn't even be in your head, let alone happening to you. Ouch. Very frank, but appreciated. My wife seems to be very happy, but I've been feeling increasingly disillusioned and depressed. counsellors are just as prone as any other human being on the planet to falling in love falling out of love, having marital problems, having affairs or divorcing. You might as well be a plumber for all the good your own counselling skills would be to you.... Forget what you'd counsel or suggest to a couple they do; this doesn't work, because you won't want to do it, and don't feel inclined to do it. More refreshing honesty. What you'd really like is to have a wildly passionate and wonderful affair - and still be married to your wife, and either feel completely ok about it all, or have her be completely ok about it all. Well, this is it, then, isn't it? No, that isn't it. What I do want is to get some clarity on what the heck this all means and arrive at a solution which maximises happiness and minimises pain for all involved. What are you going to do, huh? Whether you stay with your wife, or whether you decide to separate - You know exactly what the right thing to do would be. The big question is - do you have the balls to do it? What I feel inclined to do is maintain the status quo and study the feelings, and (of course) remain loyal to my wife. There's gotta be a reason why a successful, reputable experienced counsellor, who has helped so many people, should so unexpectedly succumb to such a severe case of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence.
TaraMaiden Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 It's because desire is natural and instinctive. Fidelity is a choice. We're not hard-wired to be faithful. We're conditioned and educated to be faithful. But actually, it's not in our nature.
Lipsy10 Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 Sounds to me like you have already made up your mind - you want to leave your wife but you don't have the courage to so you want us to tell you your right in your decision. Sadly, despite what you think, the excitement inside is an infatuation. The excitement that you feel is so much more exciting because your marriage is not exciting. 100% agree with this. Your focusing on this woman cos your bored/unhappy with your wife. And who knows maybe it is love. But please PLEASE don't leave your wife for this woman. Leave your wife because you are no longer happy with her, because you don't have much in common and because you want different things in life. This other woman is a distraction for you, a ray of light in an otherwise dull life. Your in the honeymoon phase - I'm sure you must of felt like this about your wife when you first got together. This passes and reality eventually kicks in. She wont be so exciting then. Sit down with your wife and tell her how you feel. Not about the other woman but about how bored and unsatisfied you are. Maybe a trial seperation will give you a clearer view on how you feel.
Author gentleguy Posted June 21, 2010 Author Posted June 21, 2010 Did you have these feelings for your wife and if you could get them back Here's the rub - I never had these feelings for my wife. We had a warm and caring friendship, we enjoyed our time together in the few months before getting involved, but it was never anywhere near as intense as this. Going to the next level was a mutual choice, not driven by any electric feelings. who looks better and who has the better personality...this woman or your wife? Keep in mind that you do NOT know the negatives of this woman. No, you really don't. Here's the trouble - as a counsellor I'm trained to look deep inside people. This woman does have a pile of issues of which she is in deep denial. As to her willingness to work on these issues, or even acknowledge them, the jury is staill out. I certainly haven't had the time to evaluate this other woman's emotional honesty and other core values. But dammit, that feeling is just sooo strong. She dominates my thoughts day and night!! And last of all....if your wife had these feelings for another man (and she may have), what would you want her to do and how would you feel? Above all else, I would want my wife to be happy. If I knew she was moving to a situation of greater and sustainable happiness, I'd set her free with my blessing, and thank her for the time we did have together. I want to hang in there and see whether the feeling grows or burns out. And also, to call on the still-sane part of me to observe and keep perspective. For the record, I am not a cheap sleazebag. I don't do casual s--t (did that once long ago, when I wasn't in a relationship - felt horrible!) g
Lipsy10 Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 No, that isn't it. What I do want is to get some clarity on what the heck this all means and arrive at a solution which maximises happiness and minimises pain for all involved. This is unrealistic. Someone always gets hurt in a breakup. If you do decide to leave your wife she will get hurt - thats the reality of the situation. But you can't stay in an unhappy marrage because your afraid to hurt her feelings. Man up!
SarahRose Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 Come on. You can see how silly this is. This is a new female giving you attention, stroking your ego, and a basketcase for you to fix so you can be the knight in shining armor to save the day. Were you thinking of leaving your wife before this new female came along?
califnan Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 How can anyone be a counselor without knowing all of the symptoms of sin - such as you have just spouted off.. Surely after at least listening to your patients you should have known the symptoms .. The stories may appear to be different - while being the same.. Or read further in the LS Infidelity forum....
Feelin Frisky Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 I don't know enough from what you said to hand you a heavy-handed judgment (hint hint). All I can say is congratulations--whether the future holds discomfort and potential heartbreak. You certainly sound qualified to apply all the analysis. But this is not for someone else--it's for you and analysis be damned at least for a while longer until you see if your love is really returned, if its really deserved or you are just awake in wonderful places by this magic icon who may or may not live up to your feeling of having found something that seems so compelling at the moment. Institutions and conventions be damned. I don't advise or warn suspician but just note that it's rare that anyone is really everything you feel they are when they flip your long deprived love switch on to maximum. We're not computers and eveything isn't a yes or no matter of logic. Being an emotional and unique being makes for some craziness and sometimes it can be so wonderful, it's worth cashing in everything you have just to have it for a while. I hope it works out whatever you decide.
Jilly Bean Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 For the record, I am not a cheap sleazebag. No, but you are a married man who has been engaging in an emotional affair for 4 months, and is considering options to make it physical. I smell MID LIFE CRISIS.
michelangelo Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 It raised a few eyebrows around the place - many people found it strange that she's more than 10 years older than me, and that she hooked up with a client. This is the most telling thing you've revealed to us on the board. Your wife is a lot older than you and she used to be your counselor. You two are in a different place in life and you have outgrown the dynamic of counselor and counseled and the unequal nature of your relationship. Seeing this other woman has sparked in you something that she never has.
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 How can anyone be a counselor without knowing all of the symptoms of sin - such as you have just spouted off.. Surely after at least listening to your patients you should have known the symptoms .. The stories may appear to be different - while being the same.. Or read further in the LS Infidelity forum.... With respect, where does "sin" come into the picture of counseling, unless he is doing it in association with a religious organization? Which he may be; he hasn't said. I'm certainly not condoning what he's indulging in, and I agree that it's seems to be at odds with his career, though lots of people with issues are drawn to that work.
califnan Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 With respect, where does "sin" come into the picture of counseling, unless he is doing it in association with a religious organization? Which he may be; he hasn't said. I'm certainly not condoning what he's indulging in, and I agree that it's seems to be at odds with his career, though lots of people with issues are drawn to that work. ---------------- It's normally sin in one's life that causes them to look for answers in counseling.. Lusting toward causing an adulterous relationship can make people feel unstable..
xxoo Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 On the other hand, she can be jealous and possessive, even at times emotionally abusive, particularly if I'm going out and doing any activity that she's not interested in. She doesn't like me having friends or activities outside the marriage. Wait--your brilliantly gifted counselor wife is emotionally abusive? And you are also a counselor? Physician, heal thyself, huh? My advice is the same. Unless you feel that honesty will put you in danger (is there any possibility she would be physically abusive?), talk to your wife. Tell her about these feelings, and your desire for the excitement this woman offers. It is honest, and gives you a place to move forward together--or separate together. She may be perfectly happy now, but she is naively happy in an unhealthy marriage. She deserves to be told that you are not happy! It sounds to me like you are afraid of having conflict with your wife. As a counselor, you know that the most important communication is often the most difficult. It is impossible to maintain a healthy relationship without ever making waves.
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