Knittress Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 More like racism. If you replaced "Middle Eastern man" with "black man" and tweaked the tired stereotypes a little, this thread would cause an outrage. But because of our stupid oil wars, racism against Middle Easterners is more accepted. I don't agree with you. While different ethnicities in the US have different subcultures, it's true - everyone does at least have a vague idea of what the larger cultural interpretations might be. Black men are Americans, and the this thread is not talking about Iranian-Americans.
Ruby Slippers Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 People are saying things like "all Middle Eastern men are controlling", so don't get into relationships with them. racism: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race "Non-Middle Eastern men are better to date than Middle Eastern men" = racism.
TheBigQuestion Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 There's nothing racist about anything said in this thread. You can't deny the realities of cultural differences just for the sake of being politically correct. Enough women have chimed in this thread to say that, while there are exceptions, Middle Eastern men are very traditional with their views on marriage, family, and women. Among most of the people I've known of either Middle Eastern or Indian descent, the desire to assimilate into American society versus the cultural inertia perpetuated by their families can often create major problems in the way they form friendships and romantic relationships.
Ruby Slippers Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 Let's say you moved to Iran (or China, France, Mexico, wherever) when you were 18, and since you intended to settle down, you hoped to meet a suitable mate. And all the women you knew were cautioning their friends against dating white men (or whatever your race is) because "most white men are X, Y, and Z." Or the parallel of what JB contributed with such class: White men are "naturally unattractive". This is pure, unfiltered racism. If it looks like racism, sounds like racism... The rampant hate and discrimination against Middle Easterners in particular, especially in Western countries, makes me sick.
TheBigQuestion Posted June 23, 2010 Posted June 23, 2010 Let's say you moved to Iran (or China, France, Mexico, wherever) when you were 18, and since you intended to settle down, you hoped to meet a suitable mate. And all the women you knew were cautioning their friends against dating white men (or whatever your race is) because "most white men are X, Y, and Z." Or the parallel of what JB contributed with such class: White men are "naturally unattractive". This is pure, unfiltered racism. If it looks like racism, sounds like racism... The rampant hate and discrimination against Middle Easterners in particular, especially in Western countries, makes me sick. Well if I moved to a place like China or Iran, I'd expect people to be wary of me as a Westerner. I'm not saying that pure, unbridled racism couldn't be the cause of this, but again, it's kind of short-sighted to think that there aren't legitimate concerns about differences in values. As a Westerner and an atheist/physicalist, I can't imagine being very compatible with your average Persian or Chinese woman. And that comment just looks to me like a statement of preference. It's no different than someone saying that they don't find Asian women physically attractive or prefer women of one race/culture over another. It COULD be racist, but not necessarily. Again, it's foolish to try to dismiss this discussion as racist when there are in fact legitimate concerns over differences in values and customs that could easily affect the way people form relationships. Pulling out the "racist" card is the oldest red herring in the book.
alphamale Posted June 23, 2010 Posted June 23, 2010 How willing are they on average to date white women who don't belong to their religion or ethnicity? There's a 27-year-old Iranian graduate student at my university that I recently met in a school related club, and I'm a bit interested in him. if you're good looking i'm sure he'll go out with you
Ruby Slippers Posted June 23, 2010 Posted June 23, 2010 As a Westerner and an atheist/physicalist, I can't imagine being very compatible with your average Persian or Chinese woman. And that comment just looks to me like a statement of preference. It's no different than someone saying that they don't find Asian women physically attractive or prefer women of one race/culture over another. It COULD be racist, but not necessarily. The OP choosing not to consider the man because she is not attracted to him or interested in him is one thing. Other people who know nothing about him except his ethnicity warning her about getting involved with him simply because he's Iranian is medieval. This is 2010, people. The 21st century. WAKE UP.
TheBigQuestion Posted June 23, 2010 Posted June 23, 2010 The OP choosing not to consider the man because she is not attracted to him or interested in him is one thing. Other people who know nothing about him except his ethnicity warning her about getting involved with him simply because he's Iranian is medieval. This is 2010, people. The 21st century. WAKE UP. This doesn't negate the fact that value systems of people of Middle Eastern and those of people of mainstream Western persuasion are in many ways diametrically opposed. I'm not saying the OP should or should not date the guy, but a general consensus seems to have emerged that says that Middle Eastern men are far more likely to listen to mother rather than listen to the Western woman he's dating, especially when it comes to life decisions. From my experiences with Middle Easterners (and there's plenty, as I live in one of the most diverse locations in the world), this seems to be true, especially for those who are less Americanized than others. That's the important aspect of this thread and what should be discussed. If the OP is looking for a long-term relationship, and there's enough people saying that Middle Easterners with traditional backgrounds face a huge amount of conflict between their backgrounds and their current environments, these are conversations that should occur.
D-Lish Posted June 23, 2010 Posted June 23, 2010 Before you date someone, it's important to get to know what their belief system is. Of course it's important to get to know his religious background- that's important in any dating choice. Your core beliefs define you- they define all of us. Cultural, spiritual, etc- it's all a part of what shapes us. I wouldn't give different advice had you posted about a Catholic, Jew, or Agnostic. Being Middle Eastern doesn't mean he's of Islamic background (but it's probable). There are Christians and other belief systems abound in the culture. You certaintly cannot deny that a traditional middle eastern man has been brought up with the notion that females are inferior. But- don't forget that the same notion of female inferiority was present in MOST early societies. In many modern societies as well. Catholics don't recognize female's as having power- so it really is all relative. I'd find out more about him. Get to know him and ask some questions. Just because he's "brown" doesn't mean he's "down" with the america.
threebyfate Posted June 23, 2010 Posted June 23, 2010 If he or his family are old school, wealthy Persians, be wary. Most often their families will find someone from home for their prodigal sons to marry. Even a Persian girl who's been raised in North America might not be considered.
sweetjasmine Posted June 23, 2010 Posted June 23, 2010 This is 2010, people. The 21st century. WAKE UP. It is the 21st century, and yet there are still people in the world raised in cultures which treat women like garbage. I wouldn't feel comfortable saying, "I'd never date an Iranian!" since I've met people from there who don't fit the stereotypes/caricatures people have been throwing out in this thread and since I know a little bit about the society and understand it's not homogeneous. But while people in this thread have been overreacting, so have the people who seem to be pretending there's no difference between the attitudes of people raised in one country/culture as opposed to another. There are people from certain cultures around the world who are going to hold beliefs I can't possibly tolerate and who come from cultures that I would never want to live in. I could never get along (as a romantic partner) with anyone who practices and strongly believes in one of the major world religions, with the possible exception of Buddhism. I could never get along with anyone from a deeply conservative Middle Eastern culture. I could never get along with anyone from a deeply conservative Eastern European culture. I could never get along with anyone from a deeply conservative Southeast Asian culture. Sh-t, I'd even have serious problems getting along with people from the country I was born in, if their cultural beliefs are anything like my family's. Some cultures are more patriarchal and chauvinist than others. I don't think it's racist to point that out, though it could very well be unfair to make assumptions about an individual. Not everyone from a certain culture is going to hold the same beliefs, but chances are it's affected their point of view in one way or another. You can only find out by getting to know them as an individual, but I don't think it's completely unreasonable to keep an eye out for certain beliefs or behaviors if you know that those things would be a dealbreaker for you and that they're common in people from the same culture as the individual.
Zed Posted June 23, 2010 Posted June 23, 2010 If he or his family are old school, wealthy Persians, be wary. Most often their families will find someone from home for their prodigal sons to marry. Even a Persian girl who's been raised in North America might not be considered. I was actually thinking the same thing and this is true of Saudis and others who are not thoroughly Americanized, etc. From the town I moved from you had several Middle Eastern guys who had their fun with American girls (huge fetish for blonde women) and when it was over they married a woman from their own country. In fact I see that same MO with East Indians as well. Nothing wrong with Middle Eastern guys--just be cognizant of culture, how they relate to women and others who are different, if values match yours and there's no arranaged marriage lurking in the background.
Ruby Slippers Posted June 23, 2010 Posted June 23, 2010 Yeah, I hear y'all. I just want to be one voice on the side of acceptance and curiosity about other cultures. A good friend of mine is Middle Eastern, and she married a white guy. She comes from a wealthy, pretty controlling family, and she's definitely warned me about Middle Eastern guys, saying they love to have American girlfriends, but will eventually defer to the parents and marry someone from their culture -- especially if the parents have money to hold over them. It was a very, very big deal to the family for her to marry a white guy.
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