Loving a married man.

[mourningMM]

whether someone here is in an affair, contemplating an affair, avoiding an affair...there are some thoughts that I want to share. They pair with questions that I have about relationships....and you are all so good at speaking from all angles I wanted to get other perspectives.

 

There is a man, there is a woman...and there is a connection.

 

There is a man, there is a woman...and there is a marriage.

 

What if the connection is outside the marriage? I've posted on emotional vs physical affairs. But I'm wondering not about the choice of the action (an affair, or no contact) but the underlying connection.

 

Yes, I know that sometimes it is lust, others it is love, others it is friendship or protectiveness, or even a savior complex.

 

But regardless of what motivates it, what do you think about people who have connections that may exist before, after, or even during a marriage to people outside of that legal relationship?!

[BB07]

 

Yes, I know that sometimes it is lust, others it is love, others it is friendship or protectiveness, or even a savior complex.

 

But regardless of what motivates it, what do you think about people who have connections that may exist before, after, or even during a marriage to people outside of that legal relationship?!

 

I'm confused by part of your question.....see the bolded above. Could you clarify please? Do you really mean before marriage?

[mourningMM]

I do mean before. Sometimes the connections in a relationship turn into a commitment like marriage; other times, the connections don't and the two people move on to other relationships.

 

For me, once I've become connected to someone, even after a breakup I still feel...connected. Maybe it is a boundary issue.

 

With my ex-husband, I still have a connection through my children. With crushes from grade school, I still care about their well being. With old lovers, I still want to know how they are.

 

My name, MourningMM, is from an unexpected discovery that an ex (a MM with whom I'd had an affair that ended cleanly) had died. Shocked me to the core because we were in a NC phase.

 

Also, a man who I dated ended our relationship to marry another woman. Recently he's tried reconnecting.

 

The reality is, regardless of who is or was in my life, once I've given a bit of my heart or soul to someone, I care about them.

 

Even if I really don't like them much (a.k.a my Ex Husband!). If he needed something from me, I'd be there.

 

I'm wondering whether anyone else here has found or finds themselves loving an ex even after you've both moved on to new relationships.

 

That "in another reality we'd have married" kind of feeling.

[cavedweller]

MM,

 

I have met several men and women like you...They don't know how to walk away..They keep in contact with all of their ex's...(be it an ex-husband/wife, ex-bf/gf or an ex-lover)

 

The problem they have is that they let their past damage any present or future relationship or relationships they may have..

 

It is called excess baggage..

 

cavedweller

[mourningMM]

excess baggage.. cavedweller

 

Maybe that's why I started this thread. Unpacking that bag requires a bit of work, and not all baggage is excess.

 

I appreciate your perspective though; and I admire people who are able to put the past behind them. Someone once described carrying a broken relationship as carrying a corpse; gruesome analogy.

 

But the question I have is whether believing in the connection is really what is holding me back. Or if believing in the connection is what makes the connection.

 

I probably should have called this thread "severing connections with married men" but in this instance, what I need to shed is miles deep feelings of love and compassion for a man who is relationally-challenged

[2sunny]

But regardless of what motivates it, what do you think about people who have connections that may exist before, after, or even during a marriage to people outside of that legal relationship?!

 

what do i think? i think each and every one of them must take some effort and energy away from the marriage. time and energy that could be potentially pumped into making the M better. stealing from the M is how i think of it...

 

if it takes away from the M, then how could that be healthy for the M?

[mourningMM]

Can a healthy marriage be hurt by an affair? Or an opposite sex friend?

 

Or is an unhealthy marriage the breeding ground for a healthy connection to turn into something dangerous?

 

Never having been in a healthy marriage (note, I'm divorced) I agree that anything that bleeds energy away from the marriage is bad for the marriage.

 

But here's my real dilemma, I loved this guy before he was married, still love him. I don't want to cause damage to his marriage, but my heart goes out to him because he is really messed up.

 

If you read some of my old posts, the previous affair that I had ended in what I like to think of as a healthy way...we both agreed to the end, and he went back to his wife. Lived happily ever after until he died. I never wanted to hurt his marriage, and in a weird way I think he picked me because he knew that.

 

So here is a man that I already love, in a really screwed up place. If he founders on on his own, well I'm betting he finds an affair somewhere. All of the signs are there, his direction and focus isn't on his wife.

 

So if it is going to happen, and if I loved him before he was married...how on earth do I deal with attention from him. I send him away, he finds someone else to play with; his marriage fails. I play with him; maybe he gets to go home to wifey and I get closure on a completely different level.

 

I'd decided not to walk the affair path again, but he is just very vulnerable to being taken advantage of right now. He's needy, and hurting, and damaged...

 

And yes, totally see that I have a "caretaker complex.." and I definitely have baggage 'cause I just love the guy.

 

But it is like turning away a puppy with a broken leg, and leaving him on the median strip on an inner-state to allow him out there on his own.

 

So I'm riding the friend line. And of course that hits the edge of the emotional affair line.

 

So given my previous postings, and given my previous affair, I'm struggling with a complete NC (to protect myself) and a physical affair (to relieve him ---LOL too funny at that thought, and keep him safe). And the continued friendship that I think may actually be more damaging to his marriage than a plain-old-f&ckfest.

 

Which is how I landed in this forum ages ago...

 

Karma is a bitch.

[NoIDidn't]

Boundaries. Healthy ones. That's what's needed in this case.

[mourningMM]

I heard that they really exist, still trying to grow a few ....

 

I thought I had good boundaries when I was young; strong healthy boundaries. Like oak trees. Then they were blown to smithereens in my marriage, and burned into cinders in my divorce.

 

Been 10 years, and my little saplings just aren't up to this new storm.

[mourningMM]

but unfortunately for me, it is real.

[White Flower]

I'm wondering whether anyone else here has found or finds themselves loving an ex even after you've both moved on to new relationships.

 

That "in another reality we'd have married" kind of feeling.

I absolutely have no connection with my exH whatsoever. But then again, he DID a lot to kill my love and respect for him. Perhaps, had he been nicer and more respectful before and during our D I might feel differently now. I will never know for sure.

[her_halo_slipped]

IMHO...connections just ARE.

[mourningMM]

We all have choices to make about acting on connections as well. I don't buy the ....I have to, I love him crap I see sometimes. That is a very young attitude.

 

I have a choice of what to do, and in making that choice I need to follow my principles.

 

My first principle is "do no harm".

 

The question is who I want to do no harm to?

 

Me?

Him?

His wife?

 

They have no children so there aren't complications there.

 

It has been almost a year since he first reached out to me, and the connection is real. I think my boundaries are intact. I just love the guy and hate seeing him so ... grey. I mean literally his skin is grey and he's had an ulcer, surgery, his body is showing his emotional stress.

[sue123]

cheating husbands always pretend that home life is awful, but when they get home everything is totally different, dinner is on the table, normal family life and sex at night or in the morning, be ware they lie and r good at it

[sadintexas]

 

So here is a man that I already love, in a really screwed up place. If he founders on on his own, well I'm betting he finds an affair somewhere. All of the signs are there, his direction and focus isn't on his wife.

 

How can you bet when you already know the outcome? YOU'VE been with this guy since he was married to his current W. Not a matter of him entering into an A, it's a matter of him entering into ANOTHER A.

 

So if it is going to happen, and if I loved him before he was married...how on earth do I deal with attention from him. I send him away, he finds someone else to play with; his marriage fails. I play with him; maybe he gets to go home to wifey and I get closure on a completely different level.

 

So you will save his marriage, gain closure and protect some other innocent woman from the pain of an A? How noble Come on, you know better than this. I can think of a lot better ways to save a marriage that this!

 

But it is like turning away a puppy with a broken leg, and leaving him on the median strip on an inner-state to allow him out there on his own.

 

He's not a little lost, injured, homeless puppy. He's a grown man with a wife at home. He should allow her to support him instead of looking for you to do it.

 

So I'm riding the friend line. And of course that hits the edge of the emotional affair line.

 

Is this the same type of friendship you were building before when you were intimate with him a couple of weeks ago?

 

If you're really torn over this, I do apologize for sounding harsh. But your thoughts and justifications or "ponderings" are really out in left field.

 

You've already been having an EA with him for quite some time now. It turned physical not too long ago. You already know you can't have a platonic relationship with this man. Choose to either accept it's an A and quit trying to sound like a martyr, or move on from this guy and go NC. It's simple.

[wheelwright]

In response to part of the OP, I think the deep kind of connections stay in place on some level regardless of boundaries.

 

It's partly about the meanings and experiences two people (or sometimes more as in a group of friends) have shared. They stay part of who you are, and you can't walk away from that, even if you never see them again.

 

The connection weakens over time if in NC - you become a different person as you share things with other people and the x is not part of that 'new' you.. But it never disappears. And if a very deep connection, is easily re-ignited after however many years, if both individuals are capable of having any kind of connection at all.

 

Joni Mitchell wrote 'love is touching souls. Surely you touched mine, cos part of you flows out of me in these lines from time to time.'

 

IMO, boundaries are more about how we act. And feeling a strength in knowing the level at which a particular R is going to run to be healthy for you. This may be NC, may be just friends. For some part-time lovers works, but this is a dangerous choice for many others. Or it may be a committed M. And in setting the boundaries you have to take into account the well-being of others.

 

And I worry about the way in which you seem to feel you know best what is right for your AP. He has to come to that decision himself, even if you perceive his choice as wrong, that may or may not be so. However weak he may seem, he is a subject not an object.

[mourningMM]

While I am thinking about what is best for me, I do make some assumptions...and you are absolutely right Wheelright, when you say

 

you seem to feel you know best what is right for your AP.

 

I need to be very careful that I'm not unilateral; as does he. He's going through the same reflection (I hope) on his side of this affair. He needs to make his own choices. Here's the challenge, I am avoiding "we"-think at all costs. He and I do not have the right to consider ourselves a we. I am an OP. He is a MM. He and his wife are the "we" in his life.

 

I wish his choices in the past were different; reality is...reality. But I don't seem to be able to make a decision without him in mind. That's where I'm hoping that no-contact will give me the space to make decisions for me.

What I have to decide is ... what do I need; what am I willing to live without.

 

Thanks ... these postings help; and Wheelright, yours has offered an additional nugget for reflection. Just how much of this is my desire to exert control on the situation and on myself? Can I do that without objectifying him or the affair? Hmmm...

 

SadInTexas, you echo what someone else has said. I do need to own it. It was an EA, it did turn into a PA. I'm torn because we were connected before the marriage, and we have many common experiences and memories. There were two years of non-contact when he got married, and I thought of him. Maybe not every day, but a few times a week.

 

Again, food for thought...am I acting like a martyr or a victim? I've been in that role before; I'm trying think this through putting my needs first. That is relatively new for me. Somewhere there is a posting that I wrote about the difference between codependence and interdependence; I'm still trying to find a healthy place.

 

Is being in an affair healthy? No, it is being in a dead end. Is denying the connection and the love I have for him healthy? No, is a source of agitation that I need to address.

 

It does boil down to this; after I ponder and reflect what do I need to do. Then when he and I do talk, understanding what he wants and needs and finding the right choice.

[sadintexas]

I'm not trying to be mean but I suppose what I'm going to say may be a bit harsh or blunt. I wouldn't say it except I think it's something you need to think about.

 

You guys were together first. No doubt. And it ended and he married someone else. You had the chance to marry each other and make a real relationship work. YOU BOTH HAD THAT CHANCE. He married someone else. Keep repeating that in your head. It's important.

 

If the connection was that strong, why was it thrown away the first time? This is what I said in another post to you. You could have had him but didn't want him when he was available to you. He lied to you and you ended it and he moved on with this other woman (who I believe he was seeing at the same time as you which is what part of the lying was about).

 

If you weren't willing to deal with that when you were BOTH single, why is it something you want to do now? Several things come to mind...addiction to drama, fear of commitment, wanting what you can't have. What motivates you, I don't know. It's for you to figure out.

 

With regards to being a victim versus a martyr...I haven't seen you project a victim mentality at all. The part where you talk about maybe engaging in an affair to help him stay in his marriage is trying to justify what you want in the disguise of being a martyr. Altruistic motives for engagement in an A do not exist.

 

You are not engaging, or thinking of any of this because of HIM. It's about you. Figure out what motivates YOU.

 

I do understand having a connection with people from your past. That connection may remain indefinitely. But there are reasons why they didn't continue to be an active part of your life. There are reasons why other paths were chosen. Those reasons don't cease to be important because time has etched away the sharpness of that memory.

 

I will give you a good example. I met a girl in HS. We were 15. We became best friends quickly and remained friends for 20 years. We definitely had a connection. I began to realize over the last few years of our friendship that it had become primarily one sided. I was always there for her, she was there for me when it didn't interfere with anything else she had going on. I'd held her hand through a lot of difficult periods in her life. She didn't do the same for me when I really needed her. It was still about her problems.

 

After 20 years, I ended up dissolving the frienship because she not only couldn't support me, but was expecting me to continue to support her when I was at my lowest and needed HER. That was 5 years ago and we haven't spoken a day since. Although I realize our dynamic wasn't exactly healthy, I still look back on our relationship with warm feelings. I still care about her and hope she's doing well. I believe she is always someone I will think about and care about for the rest of my life. That doesn't mean sacrificing my well being to give her what she needs is the right thing to do.

[2sure]

Clearly, every single person with whom we have any kind of relationship becomes part of the tapestry that make up your life and who you are. Once a connection is made, you cannot unmake it. Its called the past. We all have them. Whether you choose to reconnect, resume, not talk to, forget, whatever ...is a choice everyone makes regardless of their feelings about the connection.

 

If you want to have an affair with this guy then do it but dont make up reasons for it. You want to. You know its wrong or that you shouldnt, but you want to do anyway. Having a reason for doing something we think we shouldnt...isnt a reason, its a justification or an excuse.

 

And thats fine, what you do is your business, maybe you think it is not wrong OR you think its wrong but are still OK with it. Fine. But if you want to really address it..call it like it is. You are attempting to say basically that you cant help it. Thats nonsense.