Spark1111 Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 Happy Father's Day to all the great dads out there. I think of the man my husband is today as compared to who was during his affair, and I am amazed at his transformation; devoted, kind, caring and willing to use every resource available to promote the health and welfare of our clan. The biggest difference? He is soooooo in love with me again, and our kids take thier greatest emotional reassurance in observing all his loving gestures towards their mother, me. Because believe me, they are looking for that, no needing that, to heal and forgive. During his affair, he conviced the OW that he was father of the year and couldn't wouldn't leave until our youngest was established at college. Well, that came and went.... She was a single mother with a young son and he was exceedingly kind and caring towards this child, especially since she was always claiming her blankety, blank xH treated him so poorly. (True? Who knows.) She certainly promoted that vision to her son who was growing to hate his dad based on mom's constant pain and acrimony. So I think she began to yearn for a man as kind as my spouse to become the replacement father to her son, and he was more than willing to fit into the role. But at home, he was critical and distant and viewed me and our kids as this large ball of resource and time-draining resentments. He WAS the villain at home so he could find an excuse to run there and be the hero. Sheesh! Crazy times...... So fellow Loveshackers, what makes for a good father? Can the marital relationship truly be taken out of the equation? Will the kids still be as adjusted and healthy if daddy is having an affair? And all you OW/OM, how do you know your AP's portrayal of their parenting is true? What makes for a good father?
jennie-jennie Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 A good father is to me a man who cares for his own happiness as well as the happiness of his children. By showing them that one does not contradict the other he will enable them to as adults care for both their own happiness as well as their children's.
MizFit Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 I was a great father...for 19 of his 22 Fathers Days I've been both Mom and Dad to my son. I think it was a combination of blind luck, faith, instinct, common sense and listening to the people who loved us the most. I give honorary to all of the backup fathers for my son...the coaches, the teachers, his grandparents, Uncle Lawrence, cousins Shelly, Brian and Kirk, Mr Q, Barry, and Philip. Without each and every one of them he would not be the man he is. I would like to say something to his father. It's ok. When we parted I did my best to keep the relationship between you and your son intact, but I soon tired of being the only one to care where it was going. My father took me aside one day and told me to not hold it against you...guilt, fear, and embarrassment were guiding you. He said that they were getting the better of you and you'd probably never break their grip on you. He was right...I can understand all of those emotions now that I'm 20 years older and a whole lot wiser. I don't doubt the love you had and still have for your son...I would imagine more days than not he's on your mind more than he is mine. It's ok...I know you found happiness and so have we. He's here...hopefully you'll look for him before it's too late. No matter what, he loves you...I've made sure of that. Happy Fathers Day to all the dads and to all of us who have had to pinch hit at times!
Shakz Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 So fellow Loveshackers, what makes for a good father? Can the marital relationship truly be taken out of the equation? Will the kids still be as adjusted and healthy if daddy is having an affair? And all you OW/OM, how do you know your AP's portrayal of their parenting is true? What makes for a good father? I think there are plenty of instances of single parents, divorced parents, and widowed parents doing a wonderful job of raising their kids. While mom & dad might be the ideal, it is not always the best arrangement unless both parents are willing to put their kids first in all aspects of their lives. As far as having had an affair, I think your own story best answers that question. Time heals all wounds, and the children will see that even a terrible mistake can be overcome by love. I'm not sure the OM/OW can ever be sure, even if their own kids are being treated well, because, after all, they are really strangers by comparison. The answer to the final question, IMO, is the same as the first two: love.
Green Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 "What makes for a good father?" Well some one who has enough RESPECT for 1) himself and 2) others to be a confident, caring, HONEST human being. Your Husband who a) CHEATED and b) had an affair with a woman with a kid isn't the greatest ROLE MODEL... Just being there and putting in TIME with your family is HALF THE BATTLE.
Green Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 Before I discovered my husband had joined the scum club of cheaters, I believed he was a father of the century, someone to look up to. Not now, now I know how easy it was for him to lie and deceive, how easy it was to set his morals aside, and how fragile his character was. Now he is just.... a father, not a Dad. I cringe when he corrects our grandson about lying or misbehaving, I so want to tell him, Hello pot, meet Kettle... Sad , but true, at least for me I think its really rude and disrespectful to CHEAT... NOT WHAT YOU WANT TO TEACH YOUR KIDS. If he had problems with the mariage WHY NOT BE HONEST AND RESPECTFUL ABOUT THINGS>
Fallen Angel Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 I was a great father...for 19 of his 22 Fathers Days I've been both Mom and Dad to my son. I think it was a combination of blind luck, faith, instinct, common sense and listening to the people who loved us the most. I give honorary to all of the backup fathers for my son...the coaches, the teachers, his grandparents, Uncle Lawrence, cousins Shelly, Brian and Kirk, Mr Q, Barry, and Philip. Without each and every one of them he would not be the man he is. I would like to say something to his father. It's ok. When we parted I did my best to keep the relationship between you and your son intact, but I soon tired of being the only one to care where it was going. My father took me aside one day and told me to not hold it against you...guilt, fear, and embarrassment were guiding you. He said that they were getting the better of you and you'd probably never break their grip on you. He was right...I can understand all of those emotions now that I'm 20 years older and a whole lot wiser. I don't doubt the love you had and still have for your son...I would imagine more days than not he's on your mind more than he is mine. It's ok...I know you found happiness and so have we. He's here...hopefully you'll look for him before it's too late. No matter what, he loves you...I've made sure of that. Happy Fathers Day to all the dads and to all of us who have had to pinch hit at times! Lovely, simply lovely and worthy of repeating, hence my reply so it is posted again.
Fallen Angel Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 Before I discovered my husband had joined the scum club of cheaters, I believed he was a father of the century, someone to look up to. Not now, now I know how easy it was for him to lie and deceive, how easy it was to set his morals aside, and how fragile his character was. Now he is just.... a father, not a Dad. I cringe when he corrects our grandson about lying or misbehaving, I so want to tell him, Hello pot, meet Kettle... Sad , but true, at least for me But his actions and words and fatherly behaviours were "father of the Century" actions and words and behaviours even while conducting his affair. Therfore obviously he was a great father, despite his affair. It is only in hindsight that you devalue the actions and words and behaviours based on the pain you were caused, not because his actions, words and behaviours were anything less than wonderful parenting.
Green Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 But his actions and words and fatherly behaviours were "father of the Century" actions and words and behaviours even while conducting his affair. Therfore obviously he was a great father, despite his affair. It is only in hindsight that you devalue the actions and words and behaviours based on the pain you were caused, not because his actions, words and behaviours were anything less than wonderful parenting. Thats like Naming the CEO of BP Man of the year because it was only AFTER the company spilled oil and had NO PLAN to clean it up that any one got mad.
skylarblue Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 What makes for a good father? In general, I guess a man that strives to protect, support (financially and emotionally), and instill good character, moral fiber, ethics and integrity in his children while creating a childhood of fond memories and family through his love and example. Can the marital relationship truly be taken out of the equation? Will the kids still be as adjusted and healthy if daddy is having an affair? And all you OW/OM, how do you know your AP's portrayal of their parenting is true? I use to think my MM was a “good” H and “great” father despite having an A because he supported his W and family and would never leave them and he loves his kids very much (all but his young, only son is his pride), but sometimes I think how can he be such a hypocrite doing something that would tear his family apart. That’s not really protecting your children. Or what would he think of his son cheating on his W, or of his daughters being a BW? I think as the A stands now his children are healthy and well-adjusted. He doesn’t make his family suffer because of the A. They are young and not aware or exposed to anything that suggests daddy is unfaithful. MM isn’t “father of the year”, but he loves children. He tries to “portray” a good example. He spends lots of quality and family time with them. He works his ass off to make sure they have everything they need and more, and I know they love their father very much and think the world of him. He is a hell of a lot better than a lot of the dads out there.
Fallen Angel Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 Thats like Naming the CEO of BP Man of the year because it was only AFTER the company spilled oil and had NO PLAN to clean it up that any one got mad. No, that would be like the CEO of BP getting the man of the year award for 20 years in a row (and having rightfully earned them by his actions!) and then because of the oil spill, taking away his awards that he had already rightfully earned!!!
VelveteenBunny Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 Thats like Naming the CEO of BP Man of the year because it was only AFTER the company spilled oil and had NO PLAN to clean it up that any one got mad. I don't think this applies here. Man of the year is a big blanket statement discussing how good a person is in GENERAL. This is more specific. We're talking about whether a man is a good father. No one is saying the husband was man of the year or a great guy. However, the question is, do his shortcomings as a person and a husband make him a bad father? I think there is a diff. in being a bad husband and a bad father. With that said, I can understand how it would bother her to hear his corrections regarding lying, after he's lied to her so much. I think it's really sad for her. But I also think parents and kids need to understand mom and dad's relationship does not always reflect mom and kid's or dad and kid's relationship.
VelveteenBunny Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 MizFit, I'm intrigued by your post. Not to bring up old hate, as forgiveness is better, but how can guilt and embarassment make a man stay away from his kid? Shouldn't guilt and embarssment do the opposite? I get fear, but a man should feel guilty and embarssed leaving and not helping, rather than staying. Maybe it's the lack of specifics you've given, but that doesn't make sense to me. Also, you said you don't doubt he loved and loves your son- what makes you so sure of that? My father left about 15 years ago, and I doubt his love, which I never questioned before he left. I don't think he could love me as much as a father should and abandon me.
White Flower Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 (edited) So fellow Loveshackers, what makes for a good father? Can the marital relationship truly be taken out of the equation? Will the kids still be as adjusted and healthy if daddy is having an affair? And all you OW/OM, how do you know your AP's portrayal of their parenting is true? What makes for a good father? A good father provides for his children, offers support and guidance, and enjoys 'being there' for them. Loving their mother is an extra which has nothing to do with being a good father. Is he a bad father if she dies and he is a single father that way and not single because he D'd to live with OW? How do I know MM's portrayal of his M is true? How can I know that my 19 year old son isn't sleeping with his new girlfriend under my roof when he says he isn't? How do I know my renter didn't cut my roses when I noticed some were missing? How do I know my boss is gay when he says he isn't? It is a risk to trust anyone in our life. Trust cannot be earned, it is a gift. Yet, even then, there are certain idiosyncraies with each person in our lives that we know due to repetition and based on testing that repetition over and over we have a pretty reliable chance of knowing when we're being snowed or not. I know my son lost his virginity to this girl without him having told me. I know my renter cut the roses and I know my boss is gay. They cock their head a certain way or their eyes dialate. And MM has his idiosyncrasies too, of which I am well versed. I never see them anymore, btw. Besides the fact that MM doesn't really knock his W, he enjoys (probably for the first time in his SC life) the fact that we have true intimacy and that he can tell me anything. What he IS guilty of now is not so much lying but withholding certain truths he may feel would hurt me. Yet, if I ask and even though the truth would hurt he does tell me. We've just progressed so far in truthtelling that we can't go back to less. So with regard to his kids, I can use my same instincts. I just know him, and know what he says about his kids is true. I've seen the poems they've written about him, I've seen pictures of all of them together, I've heard him talk to his daughter over the speaker phone. My God, that girl loves and worships her daddy! She always looks to him for advice. They are very lucky kids to have him as their father. My kids, not so much. They chose NOT to spend Father's Day with their father. But they ARE lucky to have a great mother. Edited June 21, 2010 by White Flower
Shakz Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 Trust cannot be earned, it is a gift. What are you smoking?
kuma Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 "What makes for a good father?" Well some one who has enough RESPECT for 1) himself and 2) others to be a confident, caring, HONEST human being. Your Husband who a) CHEATED and b) had an affair with a woman with a kid isn't the greatest ROLE MODEL... Just being there and putting in TIME with your family is HALF THE BATTLE. I agree 100%.
Author Spark1111 Posted June 21, 2010 Author Posted June 21, 2010 I agree with many of the opinions posted on this thread: Role-modeling is more important than anything you do and say in parenting. You do not have to be in a marital relationship to be a wonderful parent. Many single, widowed and divorced parents do an amazing job. The inverse is also true, for me: A seemingly happily married couple may not have a clue as to how to do the job well. If the marital relationship is kind, considerate and respectful, it can only enhance the efforts of good parents on behalf of raising healthy children. Same with divorced relationships. If there is anger, contempt, disharmony and power struggles, the kids are doomed whether parents are married or not. In my particular sitch, he became a cold and angy and resentful person during his affair while still portraying himself as a great father to his OW. Bottom line: If you are not living in the home, you truly do not know the truth of how a person truly parents or the degree of respect shown the spouse. If the MM/MW is truly able to not take their unmet needs out on their spouse, the affair may have less impact on parenting: Until the kids find out. Because whether you go on to marry your affair partner or not; whether you go on to be a happier person or not, you have just taught your child a lesson in how to handle unhappiness in a relationship, like it or not, and down the road they very well may model themselves after you and your actions and outcomes.
MizFit Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 MizFit, I'm intrigued by your post. Not to bring up old hate, as forgiveness is better, but how can guilt and embarassment make a man stay away from his kid? Shouldn't guilt and embarssment do the opposite? I get fear, but a man should feel guilty and embarssed leaving and not helping, rather than staying. Maybe it's the lack of specifics you've given, but that doesn't make sense to me. Also, you said you don't doubt he loved and loves your son- what makes you so sure of that? My father left about 15 years ago, and I doubt his love, which I never questioned before he left. I don't think he could love me as much as a father should and abandon me. I'm sorry VB (love the name by the way)...I lost sight of this thread so didn't realize you'd asked me something... Guilt and embarrassment didn't make him stay away...they guided him. For whatever reason he didn't collect my son on a day he was supposed to...my baby was crushed. For whatever reason he held back child support for a few months before he started paying consistently...I had to sit and count pennies and we lived on cereal and a few food parcels from friends. For some reason he didn't take his son to see his grandmother and aunts and uncles that had been such a huge part of his life...I have no idea why. I don't know why he did any of these things...at the end of the day it doesn't matter. He was a grown man and he took the easy way out. My father made the comment about guilt and embarrassment guiding him several years after the split...he was basically saying my ex made some stupid decisions and he would never change because he was so embarrassed and felt so guilty about all of those horrible decisions. They weren't his reasons...but they kept him away and my dad wanted me to realize that he is just human and he allowed them to sink in and guide him. I have no idea if that makes sense to anyone...I'm not sure if what I'm trying to say can be put into words. I think my ex is a good man...despite what he did to me and what he continues to do to his son, he is a good man. I'm not making excuses for him...I just have never wanted to live with the false feelings and thoughts hate would create. As far as 'knowing' he loves his son...I can't give you a real reason. I know the man and I know that he is the type who would sit back and say...my boy is happy and doing well. There's nothing I can do to make it better. Keep in mind I know that isn't the case...better would have been a relationship...but that doesn't mean he doesn't love him. You could liken it to an A...everyone talks about fog and how a WS talks himself/herself out of the reality of their M...I think my exH probably did something along those lines and of course as we were off living our lives, in his eyes every day we went on I proved to him that our son didn't need him. Just like a BS who 'knows' that there is something there behind the fog...I probably 'know' the same about my exH. Now...if you ask my son what his thoughts are...I would imagine they are quite different to mine, but that is from perspective of the man, the situation, and our ages. Hope that helps a little!
worlybear Posted June 23, 2010 Posted June 23, 2010 A good father stays in regular contact with his kids (grown or otherwise.) A good father takes the time to tell his 8 year old, she's still important to him AND CARRIES ON WRITING TO HER- even if she has upset his brave new world by daring to ask why he left her behind to live with another family (with OW + her kid). A good father has the b**** to address her concerns and allay her fears. Nope! Sadly this father doesn't even come close. Not expecting perfection but we live in hope of at least a letter or phonecall to demonstrate he hasn't dropped off the planet.
Author Spark1111 Posted June 24, 2010 Author Posted June 24, 2010 i really like the part i bolded. i am very happy that your husband realized the mistake he was making and has chosen to invest all back into your marriage. may you and he grow old together, holding hands and loving each other until your last breaths. as for my view on what makes a father? a father is someone who puts his happiness aside for his child. a father is someone who is the role model to his children, in his words and actions. a father is someone who loves his children unconditionally and shows that to them in his words and actions. a father is someone who communicates with their children, who cheers them on at baseball or dance recitals, a father is one who sits down and helps with homework or the science fair project, a father is one who willingly gives so much of himself so that his kids are safe and protected, a father who helps/assists in guiding his children through life, using discipline and love, setting boundaries and knowing when to just get on the floor and play. a father spends quality and quantity of time with his children. a father is someone who walks the walk and talks the talk. a father is honest, trustworthy, and helps instill ethics and morals in his children -- and walks in tune with those a father can do these things by living IN the home or not living in the home with his children. an affair wrecks that and robs his children of most, if not all of the above statements. he is too distracted by being with the OW and robs his kids of that time. he is too busy calling/texting/sneaking around. he takes time away from his children by going off on nights/weekends with the OW in order to keep her happy. he is too engrossed in his own needs and wants. he is too selfish in order to be the man his kids need him to be. he takes advantage of his kids age (them being too young to notice his absence), his temper can be short and abrasive if he can't meet up with his OW to get his needs met or can't reach the OW. he also uses his children as an excuse ---- as to why he can't leave the marriage. if he was a good and true man/father, he would either fix his marital issues, with counseling or open and honest communication with his wife or he would end the marriage so that his kids can see an honest, loving caring man. he would show his kids what a man does when confronted with a situation and how a man handles issues/problems. he wouldn't run off and find someone new to impress and then spend his free time with that woman. i agree with this above. the cheating father, in an effort to impress the ow, plays the concerned 'dad' for her kids (who may not have their biological father in their life). any man worth his salt knows the quickest way to a woman's heart is through her kids (as long as she is a good, loving and caring mom). she of course thinks he is the 'best' dad because he cares about her kids. i completely agree. i am always amazed/shocked when i read on here how only the ow knows the man, how they know him so much better than the wife, the woman who has been in his life for years (most likely), the woman who was courted and woo'ed by the man, the woman who, along with the man, mapped out their life together. instead, the mm has only shared himself with the ow and she has all this insight into the marital home, although she doesn't live there and she may not see there are 2 sides to every story/marriage. GREAT POST, HF! It rings true for me in every sentence. And as a former journalist, there is often as many as six sides to every story.
Recommended Posts