wheelwright Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 Quote from Lissie's recent single 'Worried about': "For the last 4 years of my life I've thought about you pretty much every 15 seconds" True for me about xMOM for the last 2 years of my life - 3 months pre-A, 9 months during, 1 year post-A (which includes getting over him thinking and 'love' thinking). Question: What is the relationship between thinking about someone pretty much all the time with 'love' thoughts and love for said person? A) pre-A B) during A C) post A xMOM said every time we saw one another he 'thought about me all the time'. Apparently he still does after 1 year NC. I asked what he thought about. He said he imagined what it would be like to be with me properly. When I thought about him, I thought about the incredible feelings, the sex, the way we were a wonderful fit. And my doubts about his (and my own) integrity. And how good a future would be - gut instinct was that we would make each other happy. Given my previous posts, some may interpret this OP as me still not letting go. Really it's more philosophical than that. Has thinking about someone a correlation to loving them? I am not asking for a reality check (had plenty thanks to my friends and Jthorne AMOs). Just what does this mean? I'm curious as to whether there is any love at all in this 'thinking about you'.
pureinheart Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 I'm not sure if this is the correct answer, meaning I hope I'm reading OP right... ExDM told me and I know it's still the truth, that he thinks about me night and day. It's the reason whenever we disagreed to the point of not talking, he'd always call me first and it would usually be a number of times before I'd answer. I think about him all of the time because he is such a big part of my life, like a brother/best friend. Does he still love me? I think he does in his own way...although not the way I want "love" to be...to me love is moving heaven and earth can't live without you...that's my meaning anyway. Love is decribed in the Bible called the Beatitudes...love isn't selfish and is kind etc. I miss him, although am moving on...
Author wheelwright Posted June 20, 2010 Author Posted June 20, 2010 I'm not sure if this is the correct answer, meaning I hope I'm reading OP right... ExDM told me and I know it's still the truth, that he thinks about me night and day. It's the reason whenever we disagreed to the point of not talking, he'd always call me first and it would usually be a number of times before I'd answer. I think about him all of the time because he is such a big part of my life, like a brother/best friend. Does he still love me? I think he does in his own way...although not the way I want "love" to be...to me love is moving heaven and earth can't live without you...that's my meaning anyway. Love is decribed in the Bible called the Beatitudes...love isn't selfish and is kind etc. I miss him, although am moving on... I think I know that quote. I think I get what you said.
NoIDidn't Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 Love is decribed in the Bible called the Beatitudes...love isn't selfish and is kind etc. Ummm. No. That is NOT from the Beatitudes. The Beatitudes are the "Blessed are the peacekeepers" and so on section in the Gospels said by Jesus. The description of Love is from 1 Corinthians 13, and was said by Paul. Don't want someone to go looking for this where you said it was and not find it.
Author wheelwright Posted June 20, 2010 Author Posted June 20, 2010 Ummm. No. That is NOT from the Beatitudes. The Beatitudes are the "Blessed are the peacekeepers" and so on section in the Gospels said by Jesus. The description of Love is from 1 Corinthians 13, and was said by Paul. Don't want someone to go looking for this where you said it was and not find it. Yes, that makes sense now! It's a reading at so many weddings isn't it? I really see the relevance here though.
NoIDidn't Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 Yes, that makes sense now! It's a reading at so many weddings isn't it? I really see the relevance here though. Yeah, one of those is that love doesn't keep a record of wrongs. And one from 1st Peter that "love covers a multitude of sins (wrongs)". I really like this one. Fact is, most of us are doing "love" completely wrong. Sorry for the threadjack.
Author wheelwright Posted June 20, 2010 Author Posted June 20, 2010 Yeah, one of those is that love doesn't keep a record of wrongs. And one from 1st Peter that "love covers a multitude of sins (wrongs)". I really like this one. Fact is, most of us are doing "love" completely wrong. Sorry for the threadjack. This is beautifully frank. This is no TJ. It's straight to the heart.
Author wheelwright Posted June 20, 2010 Author Posted June 20, 2010 4 Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 8 Love never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love. (King James version with "charity" rendered as "love") I thought it time to include the quote we are discussing. It's very beautiful, and not entirely transparent. For example, the first two bits I bolded make me see the A was wrong. The third bolded bit was exactly why I thought it was right. I think a lot in this quote is both how OW/OM feel as well as BSs. Anyone biblically minded here, I would like an understanding of points 7 & 8. This is not a TJ, because the nature of love is at the start of the initial question.
Author wheelwright Posted June 20, 2010 Author Posted June 20, 2010 here it is Oh. I came up with a different one!
NoIDidn't Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 Yes, that makes sense now! It's a reading at so many weddings isn't it? I really see the relevance here though. It was read at my wedding. I remember being fixated on the "no record of wrongs" during Pre-marital counseling. I knew I was going to get a lot wrong first having my own role model for marriage be a philanderer. Back to the topic of thinking about an "ex", since I don't have an AP. I still think of my first love every now and then. I know he still thinks of me as he tells me so most of the time. LOL. I think its normal, to a degree. There is a point when it becomes obsessive. When I didn't know about my H's EA and had struck up an very inappropriate R with him, I remember sitting down and just daydreaming about him. In that moment, I knew I couldn't be in an A. I couldn't hide the daydreaming. I was getting NOTHING done. I snapped out of it remembering who he was the other times I went out with him: a diagnosed narcissist. LOL. I still love and care for him though. But I wil never be "in-love" with him again. At least I don't plan to in this lifetime.
Author wheelwright Posted June 20, 2010 Author Posted June 20, 2010 here it is Given this quote, anyone entering an A is not in love with their BS. Which I knew 'gut instinct' wise anyway.
NoIDidn't Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 4 Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 8 Love never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love. (King James version with "charity" rendered as "love") I thought it time to include the quote we are discussing. It's very beautiful, and not entirely transparent. For example, the first two bits I bolded make me see the A was wrong. The third bolded bit was exactly why I thought it was right. I think a lot in this quote is both how OW/OM feel as well as BSs. Anyone biblically minded here, I would like an understanding of points 7 & 8. This is not a TJ, because the nature of love is at the start of the initial question. What do you mean by "points 7 and 8"? The verses? I'm always interested in a Bible discussion.
NoIDidn't Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 Given this quote, anyone entering an A is not in love with their BS. Which I knew 'gut instinct' wise anyway. Not necessarily. The Bible doesn't simply see marital love as "in love". That's not its focus. Plus, it says in Proverbs that "stolen water is sweet, and bread eaten in secret is pleasant". This verse is usually used when speaking of the lure of an affair. I think its 9:17.
Author wheelwright Posted June 20, 2010 Author Posted June 20, 2010 (edited) It was read at my wedding. I remember being fixated on the "no record of wrongs" during Pre-marital counseling. I knew I was going to get a lot wrong first having my own role model for marriage be a philanderer. Back to the topic of thinking about an "ex", since I don't have an AP. I still think of my first love every now and then. I know he still thinks of me as he tells me so most of the time. LOL. I think its normal, to a degree. There is a point when it becomes obsessive. When I didn't know about my H's EA and had struck up an very inappropriate R with him, I remember sitting down and just daydreaming about him. In that moment, I knew I couldn't be in an A. I couldn't hide the daydreaming. I was getting NOTHING done. I snapped out of it remembering who he was the other times I went out with him: a diagnosed narcissist. LOL. I still love and care for him though. But I wil never be "in-love" with him again. At least I don't plan to in this lifetime. The practical side of it bolded. Have partially moved through this. I think the term 'daydreaming' is potentially at issue here. Did me and my xMOM love one another or did we need to daydream? And because the fit was so good, the daydreaming became off the scale? Like if the sex, talking, whatever hadn't worked out, the dreams would have ended. I am asking if this daydreaming when the fit is perfect = love. The quotes in this thread are giving me due pause. But then I do not feel we can reduce love to choices or actions. It includes other things. Edited June 20, 2010 by wheelwright and...
Author wheelwright Posted June 20, 2010 Author Posted June 20, 2010 Not necessarily. The Bible doesn't simply see marital love as "in love". That's not its focus. Plus, it says in Proverbs that "stolen water is sweet, and bread eaten in secret is pleasant". This verse is usually used when speaking of the lure of an affair. I think its 9:17. I'm not sure, but the quote I posted and that posted by hockeyfan are the same, the latter watered down. I'd like you to say more here. I am not a well versed Christian, but find this biblical account interesting/persuasive. Where do you see the intersection between romantic/marital/Christian love?
NoIDidn't Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 The practical side of it bolded. Have partially moved through this. I think the term 'daydreaming' is potentially at issue here. Did me and my xMOM love one another or did we need to daydream? And because the fit was so good, the daydreaming became off the scale? Like if the sex, talking, whatever hadn't worked out, the dreams would have ended. I am asking if this daydreaming when the fit is perfect = love. The quotes in this thread are giving me due pause. But then I do not feel we can reduce love to choices or actions. It includes other things. I don't think the daydreaming had anything to do with love. It was a distraction. It was me remembering a good time and thinking 'what if'. I do believe that it would happen even if the stuff you mentioned didn't work out initially. Its about fantasizing. About "what if". I don't think its sage, safe, or right to reduce obsessive actions down to "love". I did love him, and was once in love with him. But the daydreaming had nothing to do with anyone of that. I can say for myself that it was based more on lust than love. I was thinking about what I could get FOR MYSELF than what I could give to him. And that's one of the first things in that passage about love: love doesn't seek its own (isn't self-seeking). I was seeking my own in those daydreams.
NoIDidn't Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 I'm not sure, but the quote I posted and that posted by hockeyfan are the same, the latter watered down. I'd like you to say more here. I am not a well versed Christian, but find this biblical account interesting/persuasive. Where do you see the intersection between romantic/marital/Christian love? I really can't answer this question. I have a couple of ideas, but none of them seem quite right as I am no Biblical scholar, just a decently read layperson. I do know that most Christians would agree that romantic love for a Christian should lead up to and continue in a marriage. No room is made in this belief for anything shared in an affair. Its always considered wrong, even though there were apparent ways around the punishment for it - if you marry the king, LOL. In the teaching on marriage in the Bible, only the man is commanded to love his W. But the W is commanded to respect her H. And, ironicly, this is the reason that so many affairs happen on both sides. A woman not feeling loved, and a man not feeling respected/appreciated. These are apparently core needs to us, gender-wise.
Author wheelwright Posted June 20, 2010 Author Posted June 20, 2010 I don't think the daydreaming had anything to do with love. It was a distraction. It was me remembering a good time and thinking 'what if'. I do believe that it would happen even if the stuff you mentioned didn't work out initially. Its about fantasizing. About "what if". I don't think its sage, safe, or right to reduce obsessive actions down to "love". I did love him, and was once in love with him. But the daydreaming had nothing to do with anyone of that. I can say for myself that it was based more on lust than love. I was thinking about what I could get FOR MYSELF than what I could give to him. And that's one of the first things in that passage about love: love doesn't seek its own (isn't self-seeking). I was seeking my own in those daydreams. I think this hits the nail on the head for me. I really did think about him (xMOM) above myself. I cared about his M when he started to etc. I felt that about him, and acted in accordance. I felt about him as I did about my kids. Honestly (I could go into the wherewhithal, but you may as well trust me). I loved that man. But I think he felt towards me more about what he could get for himself. He didn't not care about me. But it wasn't love. And he did what you suggested - not reduce the obsessive feelings to love (in staying in his M). Sensible man. These comments have been helpful to me NID, because I can now see the difference between the way I loved him and the way he loved me more clearly. That is an important step for me.
NoIDidn't Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 I think this hits the nail on the head for me. I really did think about him (xMOM) above myself. I cared about his M when he started to etc. I felt that about him, and acted in accordance. I felt about him as I did about my kids. Honestly (I could go into the wherewhithal, but you may as well trust me). I loved that man. But I think he felt towards me more about what he could get for himself. He didn't not care about me. But it wasn't love. And he did what you suggested - not reduce the obsessive feelings to love (in staying in his M). Sensible man. These comments have been helpful to me NID, because I can now see the difference between the way I loved him and the way he loved me more clearly. That is an important step for me. I'm glad its helping. I tend to love the same way, but only after I solidify in my mind what I want from the R first. My daydreaming laid down the foundation of what I truly wanted and expected. Then I would get on with what could I offer him. My conclusion: I could not give my all to him, given both of our circumstances. And that ended it for me. Well, that and the nasty messages he sent me after I stopped whatever was happening cold. I guess I too realized that his love for me was different from mine for him.
Author wheelwright Posted June 20, 2010 Author Posted June 20, 2010 I'm glad its helping. I tend to love the same way, but only after I solidify in my mind what I want from the R first. My daydreaming laid down the foundation of what I truly wanted and expected. Then I would get on with what could I offer him. My conclusion: I could not give my all to him, given both of our circumstances. And that ended it for me. Well, that and the nasty messages he sent me after I stopped whatever was happening cold. I guess I too realized that his love for me was different from mine for him. My son broke his arm this WK which has thrown all my sleep out. I am now watching the dawn after a bottle of wine wondering whether what I stated in a previous post would be true. Come June 21st (two years after the beginning of the A) I will set it to rest. If you have helped me do this in anyway, then thanks a million/bless you (delete as appropriate).
GreenEyedLady Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 Quote from Lissie's recent single 'Worried about': "For the last 4 years of my life I've thought about you pretty much every 15 seconds" True for me about xMOM for the last 2 years of my life - 3 months pre-A, 9 months during, 1 year post-A (which includes getting over him thinking and 'love' thinking). Question: What is the relationship between thinking about someone pretty much all the time with 'love' thoughts and love for said person? A) pre-A B) during A C) post A Just what does this mean? I'm curious as to whether there is any love at all in this 'thinking about you'. You forgot: D) During M. I can't speak for anyone else but there is definitely "love" in this thinking about him, my H. Also, desire, sometimes irritation , thankfulness and a whole lot of glad I know him. If your thinking of him doesn't include love, then it's not. It's "for a good time only" thoughts. Which of course I love that with my H too, but not without all the other stuff that separates "us" from everyone else. Like taking stuff to work if the other forgot or attending the millionth fundraiser for my school or making soup and nursing the other back to health when they're sick. Or even calling in sick and taking care of the sick child whether it's your biological or not. Thick and thin. Not only thick. GEL
Author wheelwright Posted June 20, 2010 Author Posted June 20, 2010 You forgot: D) During M. I can't speak for anyone else but there is definitely "love" in this thinking about him, my H. Also, desire, sometimes irritation , thankfulness and a whole lot of glad I know him. If your thinking of him doesn't include love, then it's not. It's "for a good time only" thoughts. Which of course I love that with my H too, but not without all the other stuff that separates "us" from everyone else. Like taking stuff to work if the other forgot or attending the millionth fundraiser for my school or making soup and nursing the other back to health when they're sick. Or even calling in sick and taking care of the sick child whether it's your biological or not. Thick and thin. Not only thick. GEL I didn't forget about D). It was on my mind when I OPed and wondered if someone would bring it up. Bolded part says a lot. 'Fate, up against your will. Throught the thick and thin.' GEG, am I right in thinking your M is a post A M? That's what I seem to remember, but may be wrong. The way we are thinking about the spouse/soon to be betrayed spouse/ BS/forever loving spouse. It's part of the A. The thinking.
GreenEyedLady Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 I didn't forget about D). It was on my mind when I OPed and wondered if someone would bring it up. Bolded part says a lot. 'Fate, up against your will. Throught the thick and thin.' GEG, am I right in thinking your M is a post A M? That's what I seem to remember, but may be wrong. The way we are thinking about the spouse/soon to be betrayed spouse/ BS/forever loving spouse. It's part of the A. The thinking. Yes, he left his M and we married. I think alot of times that marrying the AP is similar to reconciling a M. There is devastation that has to be dealt with no matter who the pair ends up being. My H never regretted divorcing, but we had to deal with the devastation of his two older daughters. We had to begin anew. Is it part of the A? Perhaps it is part of the person. Some people can just not let go. And I say this not only in regards to EMA. I have a single best friend who dated a single man who used her to the point I was ready to get involved because it was seriously making her doubt her life and her children. Maybe it is you. What is it about the A that you cannot let go? Because really if you can't let it go, you shouldn't stay with your H. It's not fair to either of you. I really believe that everyone should do what they can to be happy, without f***ing it up for other people. For example, if you're heart isn't in your M, end it. I can't imagine trying to piece a M together when I'm mourning the loss of another R. As a betrayed partner, I wouldn't stand for it either. I almost think that you can't let go because it wasn't your choice. If you had your way, you two would be together. But since he betrayed you, you can't let it go. At some point you have to make a conscious choice that you are working on your M and staying M or end the M. Until you really choose, I think that you'll keep romanticizing your R with him. It won't help anyone if you keep doing this. And actually, I think it will cause even more hurt that will be completely irrepairable. ((HUGS)) GEL
Author wheelwright Posted June 20, 2010 Author Posted June 20, 2010 Yes, he left his M and we married. I think alot of times that marrying the AP is similar to reconciling a M. There is devastation that has to be dealt with no matter who the pair ends up being. My H never regretted divorcing, but we had to deal with the devastation of his two older daughters. We had to begin anew. Is it part of the A? Perhaps it is part of the person. Some people can just not let go. And I say this not only in regards to EMA. I have a single best friend who dated a single man who used her to the point I was ready to get involved because it was seriously making her doubt her life and her children. Maybe it is you. What is it about the A that you cannot let go? Because really if you can't let it go, you shouldn't stay with your H. It's not fair to either of you. I really believe that everyone should do what they can to be happy, without f***ing it up for other people. For example, if you're heart isn't in your M, end it. I can't imagine trying to piece a M together when I'm mourning the loss of another R. As a betrayed partner, I wouldn't stand for it either. I almost think that you can't let go because it wasn't your choice. If you had your way, you two would be together. But since he betrayed you, you can't let it go. At some point you have to make a conscious choice that you are working on your M and staying M or end the M. Until you really choose, I think that you'll keep romanticizing your R with him. It won't help anyone if you keep doing this. And actually, I think it will cause even more hurt that will be completely irrepairable. ((HUGS)) GEL Thanks for hugs. I think I have made the choice you speak about. I am not thinking about xAP as future venture. But my subconscious hasn't got round that yet! You are right in that I can't let go. Not of xMOM, but of my doubts about my M which run concurrently. In fact your whole post speaks to me in a way that I know I should listen to. It's where I am right now. Because it's where I am in my current reflections, I can't comment valuably, but I found your post valuable.
Circular Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 Bolded part says a lot. 'Fate, up against your will. Throught the thick and thin.'. Echo and the Bunnymen?!??! Good song...The Killing Moon She's always never been far from my thoughts... in over six years... Used to be once or twice a day, then every second, then every other second... now I think I get 30-60 second gaps
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