Excuses and more excuses

[MizFit]

I agree with MadMadisson. I have to wonder if one is from a country that is so accepting of affairs, why is it being hidden from the BS? Why is the BS not RESPECTED for her role in this? Why is the BS laughed at because her H is not there on her birthday and/or she is depressed?

 

Doesn't sound like true acceptance to me.

 

I have a good friend from France - the country that's always bantied about as being accepting of affairs. Her father cheated with the next door neighbor under her family's nose for 15 years. Her parents divorced because her mother, nor she and the rest of her family DIDN'T ACCEPT it.

 

France gets a bad rap from the few guys that objectify women to nothing more than sexpots that best know their place, when the people actually aren't accepting of affairs as much as claimed by Americans. Women in France hurt because of affairs. They are one-sided ventures for greedy, selfish (and often alcoholic) men.

 

My GF's parents have been divorced for almost ten years. And her family is STILL not over the cheating and lying that he did. They haven't forgiven him or the neighbor. How's that for "acceptance"?

 

It's actually very close to what I've said a few times...it's accepted, but not liked. If the A went on for 15 years under the family's nose then it was accepted. There was a point that came when it wasn't, but for whatever reasons, if the family (which I would assume includes the BS) is aware and nothing changes then it is accepted.

 

As I have also said over and over again there are many things in many cultures that are accepted that aren't liked. I don't know how to debate a point with someone who is agreeing with what I've said...so maybe it's time to just leave it.

[OWoman]

I I have to wonder if one is from a country that is so accepting of affairs' date=' why is it being hidden from the BS? [/quote']

 

I have had a great many conversations with a great many colleagues about this very topic, who - although unhappy that their H had an/other GF/s on the side - accepted that situation as long as it was kept away from them. They accepted that "men are like that" and that their role as Ws was to make the home and bring up the kids and not question or nag unless they wanted to get Dd.

 

In my home country, as I stated above, the BS is accepting so long as she doesn't have to know. If the A was brought to her attention, she would regard that as an affront, as her H showing her she's nothing by bringing another woman into her home / workplace / social circle and showing her kids / colleagues / friends how little she meant to him. By keeping it out of her face, he was showing her respect.

[OWoman]

As I have also said over and over again there are many things in many cultures that are accepted that aren't liked. I don't know how to debate a point with someone who is agreeing with what I've said...so maybe it's time to just leave it.

 

Exactly - it's compliance, rather than welcoming.

[califnan]

Two words: Self Preservation.

Pretty much why anyone makes excuses for any behavior, I would guess.

 

-----------------------

 

Two more words: SELF ENTITLEMENT.

[NoIDidn't]

In my home country, as I stated above, the BS is accepting so long as she doesn't have to know. If the A was brought to her attention, she would regard that as an affront, as her H showing her she's nothing by bringing another woman into her home / workplace / social circle and showing her kids / colleagues / friends how little she meant to him. By keeping it out of her face, he was showing her respect.

 

Which means if she knows, she's NOT accepting.

 

Thanks for proving the point.

[NoIDidn't]

Its foolish to keep rehashing this "accepted" or not debate. Its NOT accepted, no matter how you spin it.

 

If we were discussing countries where stoning rape victims was the norm, we wouldn't be saying it was accepted. Its clear in those cases that its NOT accepted even though it is done.

 

Same thing in this case. No one can stop another from cheating. Cheating is not accepted in ANY CULTURE that I know of. Even swingers don't condone cheating (even though they define it differently than most).

 

Such a non-argument. But some won't let it rest. As if someone has said "they" weren't acceptable, and that was never the case.

[lolapalooza]

The country thing was just given as an example, but I see it has been taken and used as a diversion from the real issue, which was: why do OW's make so many excuses to justify their behavior?

 

Here's two more "excuses" I could have listed:

"It just happened."

"But we are sooooo in loooooove."

 

The excuses themselves are not important. The reasoning behind them is.

[bananalaffytaffy]

I will agree with you that I've read more than my share of excuses. I think anyone that doesn't want to give something up will do whatever's necessary to keep it.

 

There's a BS on this board whose husband has done awful things. Refuses to stop the A, etc etc. Yet, the BS has given every excuse in the book, though absolutely everyone has told her to leave. What is it inside her that makes her want to stay in that unhappy, destructive M? Something within her can't let it go. If you were to ask the OW in this situation why she's still there, I think you'd probably get a lot of excuses there too.

 

This hasn't really answered your question. I guess people will make up a lot of things when they are doing something they know they shouldn't be doing, or is against society's norms.

[OWoman]

Which means if she knows, she's NOT accepting.

 

Thanks for proving the point.

 

OTC - she knows he is. Evidence comes at her from all sides. But she doesn't want HIM to rub her face in it by showing her, or telling her.

 

She knows. She accept that it is so. It's not what she'd prefer, but she accepts it as part of the deal.

[MadMission]

I was here a few months ago to try to read and learn. I didn't care for the atmosphere on a certain forum, so lurked and then moved on. Out of curiosity (and a little hope I guess) I came back.

 

Nothing has changed. Just more excuses.

"My behavior is perfectly acceptable in my country."

"Our relationship is okay because we love each other."

"I'm not the one cheating, so I'm not hurting anyone."

 

Where's the personal responsibility?

-There is none. As others have suggested, "self-preservation" and "self-entitlement" are just a couple of possible driving factors. When people are ONLY thinking of THEMSELVES, there is NO sense of 'personal responsibility' to anyone else. It's all about THEM, what feels good to THEM, what makes THEM happy, what THEY want, etc. There could be a million different reasons, and combination of reasons, as to WHY an adult is so SELF-oriented...and can have selective denial about their personal responsibility in participating in something so obviously hurtful to others (BS & children.)

 

Why do they keep making excuses for one another?

-Because making excuses for each other...backing each other...supporting each other...all strengthens their OWN excuses. They simply cannot state the 'ugly' reality of a fellow OW's choices and behaviors...when their own behavior is the same. It would be an admission of the 'ugliness' in their own choices and behaviors.

 

I am not bashing, I am truly trying to understand that kind of mentality.

-I am not bashing either...just stating the obvious. I think what troubles you is the depth of denial it requires for an OW/OM to participate in something which is so incredibly hurtful to another person (BS & children.) You cannot fathom it. And, the variety of creative excuses or justifications are so glaringly selfish and rediculous, that I imagine most who read them just either roll their eyes, feel sickened, disturbed, or maybe even chuckle at the obsurdity. ...because you/me/we can see right through it for what it obviously is...just bs.

 

 

The country thing was just given as an example, but I see it has been taken and used as a diversion from the real issue, which was: why do OW's make so many excuses to justify their behavior?

-Yup, going off topic is a common way to avoid the real question when it is not one you want to answer. I just noticed some recent posts on this thread doing just that...switching it to the BS...and what's 'wrong' with them that they choose to stay with their WS. Classic example of taking the focus off the real issue presented by the OP in a thread. There are many threads about the BS and all the related complexities of being put in the position of learning you are a betrayed spouse. However, THIS thread is questioning why OW make so many excuses to justify their behavior.

 

 

Here's two more "excuses" I could have listed:

"It just happened."

"But we are sooooo in loooooove."

 

The excuses themselves are not important. The reasoning behind them is.

 

*********************

[lolapalooza]

I am not bashing, I am truly trying to understand that kind of mentality.

-I am not bashing either...just stating the obvious. I think what troubles you is the depth of denial it requires for an OW/OM to participate in something which is so incredibly hurtful to another person (BS & children.) You cannot fathom it. And, the variety of creative excuses or justifications are so glaringly selfish and rediculous, that I imagine most who read them just either roll their eyes, feel sickened, disturbed, or maybe even chuckle at the obsurdity. ...because you/me/we can see right through it for what it obviously is...just bs.

 

Exactly. Excellent post Mad, thank you.

[2sure]

I myself used to believe that there were several posters here who were realistic about their own parts in infidelity and were sincerely comfortable with it. And I can accept that completely, always as long as it is not a comfort level built on justification and self delusion.

 

But more recently I have come to find that those are the posters that defend and protest ...too much, as they say. They get it, but simply must contradict any differing opinions at every turn so that they can remain relevant .

[Snowflower]

I myself used to believe that there were several posters here who were realistic about their own parts in infidelity and were sincerely comfortable with it. And I can accept that completely, always as long as it is not a comfort level built on justification and self delusion.

 

But more recently I have come to find that those are the posters that defend and protest ...too much, as they say. They get it, but simply must contradict any differing opinions at every turn so that they can remain relevant .

 

Can you explain more fully what you mean here? Not with specific names, of course...

[donnamaybe]

So...what's the problem? Why would MM keep something, which is so acceptable, from his W? SHE is part of this country/culture as well.

VERY good point MM. Kinda tough to get around that one.

[donnamaybe]

In my home country, as I stated above, the BS is accepting so long as she doesn't have to know. If the A was brought to her attention, she would regard that as an affront, as her H showing her she's nothing by bringing another woman into her home / workplace / social circle and showing her kids / colleagues / friends how little she meant to him. By keeping it out of her face, he was showing her respect.

 

So in other words it is NOT accepted. Thanks for the clarification.

[Hazyhead]

So in other words it is NOT accepted. Thanks for the clarification.

 

I agree with this. If she did know, she wouldn't accept it. It's a non-starter to say that somebody would accept something only if they didn't know about it... oh, how different the world would be!

[2sure]

Sure. I'll try. People come to LS or any support group with one or more issues they are not happy with it. I did. My issue was with my H's infidelity. While here, I realized that there are many facets to every issue. There were people here dealing with things that I had dealt with so often, they werent even an issue to me anymore ( like in-laws). On the other the other hand , there were many things being dealt with from a perspective I had never had so I realized I had to have an open mind.

 

During the course of my time here, if you went back and read my own or nearly any other long term member's posts...you will find that they change. Gain open mindedness, are not as righteous, gain perspective. Which is what we came for, so thats a good thing. Some posters leave when they get questions answered and are no longer unhappy with their issues.

 

But other posters perspectives show no change. Their comments remain the same, depending on a new influx of members to hear them, so they can remain relevant. The need for them to defend their positions is...I mean if its a been a long time with no change and one is still defending, contradicting on policy, its boorish. They lose relevance.

[OWoman]

So in other words it is NOT accepted. Thanks for the clarification.

 

I agree with this. If she did know, she wouldn't accept it. It's a non-starter to say that somebody would accept something only if they didn't know about it... oh, how different the world would be!

 

Quoting selectively doesn't change what I wrote:

 

OTC - she knows he is. Evidence comes at her from all sides. But she doesn't want HIM to rub her face in it by showing her, or telling her.

 

She knows. She accept that it is so. It's not what she'd prefer, but she accepts it as part of the deal.

 

No amount of twisting changes that. The BWs know their MMs has GFs on the side. They are prepared to accept that AS LONG AS HE DOES NOT DISRESPECT THEM BY BRINGING THE GF/s INTO HER HOUSE, HER WORKPLACE or anywhere else where she physically has to confront the reality of their existence. So long as she can ignore their presence, and pretend to herself that they don't exist, she's willing to accept things as they stand.

[Snowflower]

Thanks for explaining-you did well!

 

I think I understand what you are getting at and as MadMission pointed out, it started happening in this thread...the blame started being cast toward the BS instead of answering the hard questions. Hey, if someone doesn't want to answer the questions, fine, that is their right but to start blaming someone else, well that says a lot.

 

I've noticed the same things since I've been around here for awhile, as well. I came to LS as a fairly-new BS and I know my mindset has changed. In fact, I went back and read my first thread here and I could see how my perception has changed. I think this is true for a lot of people who hang out here long enough.

 

LS is a great place to talk about these types of painful often private challenges where it would be difficult or inappropriate IRL. It's why it's good to give a lot of latitude to those posters who come here to vent even if the content is disturbing. Like me, there might have been few places for them to do/talk about it in their real lives.

 

But yes, it does get old when the same posters with same comments (from all sides of the infidelity triangle) come in and say the same things over and over. It's like they have to defend their positions at all costs. They protest too much, perhaps?

[donnamaybe]

The BWs know their MMs has GFs on the side.

 

As do many BS's here in the good ol' US. That still doesn't make it "accepted" here because they don't like it here either.

 

Just because in SOME countries people have allowed men to basically live in the 18th century as regards THEIR wants and needs over everyone else's (women's) doesn't mean it's okay. In these same countries, I seriously DOUBT it's "accepted" for women to screw around behind their H's back.

 

No amount of twisting changes that.

[OWoman]

Apparently, it's not...or there would be NO reason to keep it from the W.

The MM would feel confident that the W, living in an accepting country/culture, would be accepting of his simultaneous relationship with OW.

 

So...what's the problem? Why would MM keep something, which is so acceptable, from his W? SHE is part of this country/culture as well.

 

I have had a great many conversations with a great many colleagues about this very topic, who - although unhappy that their H had an/other GF/s on the side - accepted that situation as long as it was kept away from them. They accepted that "men are like that" and that their role as Ws was to make the home and bring up the kids and not question or nag unless they wanted to get Dd.

 

The BWs know their MMs has GFs on the side. They are prepared to accept that AS LONG AS HE DOES NOT DISRESPECT THEM BY BRINGING THE GF/s INTO HER HOUSE, HER WORKPLACE or anywhere else where she physically has to confront the reality of their existence. So long as she can ignore their presence, and pretend to herself that they don't exist, she's willing to accept things as they stand.

 

Accepting is not the same thing as embracing. I accept that my mother is an alcoholic. That does not mean I choose to take her bottles of wine to encourage her.

[OWoman]

Just because in SOME countries people have allowed men to basically live in the 18th century as regards THEIR wants and needs over everyone else's (women's) doesn't mean it's okay.

 

if something is accepted, does it mean it's acceptable? Only to those who accept it. No one else is obliged to agree.

 

In these same countries, I seriously DOUBT it's "accepted" for women to screw around behind their H's back.

 

Where women have greater access to their own resources, they take their chances, too. But where they are dependent on their Hs, they tend to be very faithful (or very discreet about their infidelity).

[Spark1111]

Back to the thread....

 

His/her spouse drinks too much, is abusive, they never have sex, doesn't appreciate him/her like I do, he/she is just staying for the kids, until next year, until next month, until the next millenium, and then we can finally be together....

 

Did I forget anything?

 

Am I too growing jaded?:rolleyes:

[donnamaybe]

Did I forget anything?

 

Yes. You forgot "He can't help it because he has a split-self personality."

[OWoman]

However, THIS thread is questioning why OW make so many excuses to justify their behavior.

 

I can't speak for anybody else, but I've never needed any excuses, nor to "justify" my behaviour, because I don't consider my behaviour to need excusing nor justifying. If it doesn't gel with someone else's moral code, that is THEIR problem and not mine. My behaviour is perfectly legal, it causes more good than harm and it is consistent with my own moral code. I don't need some ancient text dictated by a sky pixie to tell me how I should or shouldn't behave.