An affair for this member?

[Mombot]

Have you ever thought, maybe your wife is very unhappy with you?

[Mangled]

Have you ever thought, maybe your wife is very unhappy with you?

 

Of course I've wondered about that. Clearly, when you're in a marriage without any affection, the doubts and insecurities kick in. And if you're right, that would be okay, I could live with that.

 

But at the same time, I'm not going to spend all of my time convincing myself that I've been a bad husband, because I haven't. If she's unhappy with me, she's going to have to tell me that. But she tells me the opposite, asks for assurances that I'll never leave her, but then balks at actual affection.

[Mangled]

Hugs, Mangled.

I know it is difficult, and I agree that talking with close friends, esp. if they also know her, is just...well, it breaks marital confidentiality, for starters.

 

You can also, of course, consider doing some individual counseling to help you better manage/deal with all your feelings -- the loneliness, helplessness, frustration, exhaustion, depletion and stress. It's a LOT to cope with on your own.

 

Given what I'm interpreting are your wife's current mental and emotional states, I would suggest to consider how effective/useful/fruitful it will really be to try to have any serious, pouring-your-heart-out discussions with her until you are a little more "sorted out" yourself; until you feel less burdened, resentful and victimized, and have acquired a few more relational tools/skills. Until then, I'd also stop trying to get her to counseling -- it hasn't worked yet, and it's not going to work until you can present 'your side' of things to her in a new way.

 

Neither of you are in a good place, right now, to be able to have the type of conversations (quality and content) that will actually support and promote lasting calm, peace or solutions.

 

There is also the high (IMO) chance that your wife's mind will misinterpret/distort your words and/or will miss, ignore or minimize their importance...and then you'll not only have a much more depressed wife to care for, but also one who will take all kinds of convincing that you do still love her, are NOT cheating on her, do want to work things out with her, etc., etc.; on top of which you'll feel more unappreciated, unloved, burdened, resentful and victimized.

 

It can just be a vicious, downward, black hole of a spiral, if difficult communications are attempted when both are at their lowest points -- even with a relationship counselor mediating, it can be hell challenging/almost impossible. In my experience.

 

Sending Comfort and Strength.

 

Thanks for this.

 

You've stated what I tried to - she would never take the threat of an affair properly, and it would likely make things much worse. She'd be even more depressed, but now also suspicious and badly hurt.

 

I'm going to read the books you've recommended. I'm also going to try to find a new therapist, and try to get some help dealing with this. The stress of it is brutal. I think the appeal of an affair with the neighbor is largely as a distraction and a comfort.

 

I think we all need support and affection and friendship. I haven't had that from my wife in years. And it's exceedingly frustrating. To be clear, I'd much rather get it from my wife than from somebody else, but if she's not prepared to take part in the marriage, I can't bear the thought of being alone in my own house and my own relationship forever.

 

Thanks for your very constructive comments, you've obviously experienced a great deal yourself, or have been a compassionate witness to somebody else's trials.

[bentnotbroken]

We never really know what sets off a depression. She could be suffering from sugar and yeast overload. Many food additives have been shown to cause depressions. Her depression could be caused by any number of things - including an undiagnosed mental disorder - though most would have shown up long before 40.

 

Is there a reason why you are confidentially barred from speaking with her doc? Have you asked her to remove it, attempted to attend an appt. with her to tell her doc what is going on at home for real?

 

Her doctor could still speak to you without revealing a thing to you if you really felt it necessary.

 

(An aside - Believe me I understand about the "intimate conversation" on the Internet comment. Sometimes friends IRL (In real life) just won't understand or keep it to themselves)

 

Good luck, Mangled.

 

I have to say, though, that I do find it interesting that you are considering an A with a neighbor that it doesn't seem like that's even on her mind right now. It seems like you are looking for the perfect "victim" (for lack of a better word). I mean, surely someone in such a bad marriage might be more open to your charms, huh? I don't say this to offend. I just found the fact that you haven't really spoken to her about her marital issues interesting. It sounds like its more of a fantasy of yours to have an affair with her than something that's actually on the verge of happening.

 

 

She good be suffering from a heriditary inbalance that worsens with age and hormone changes. Child birth, pri-menopause, thyroid any number of things. I found out in my 40's what I felt was just mood swings throughout my entire life. I can remember thinking about committing suicide as early as 8 or 9. The first attempt was around 11 or 12. I took a bunch of pills in the medicine cabinet. Turns out they were for an infection and it just turned my pee orange...Thank God. This could get even more serious than you being unhappy. It is possible we are talking life and death.

[JamesM]

I commend you for being honest and open here. And I also admire your respectful and polite responses back to those who post...and some can be quite brutal.

 

The biggest step that you have taken is simply coming here (or anywhere) and attempting to find an answer to you situation. Many would simply choose an affair, and many would simply ignore the problem. You are trying to fix it.

 

The question is...is it fixable by YOU? I hope so.

 

You say that you have no idea what might have caused her apparent depression. You also mention that she does get a prescription for (I assume) depression). Might I ask what she is taking and why she started it in the first place...if she refuses counseling?

 

What is her life like? Does she have a job or does she stay home with the child(ren)? If she works, what shift does she work? How many days a week?

 

What is her medical condition like? Has she ever been tested for thyroid levels? Does she have any medical conditions?

 

Is there anything in your relationship that may have caused this? Having been where you are, I know that you blame yourself first. Being that you are posting as you do, I am skeptical that this is about you, but it is possible that SHE somehow perceives you differently for some reason.

 

I am just a couple of years older than you, and at your age I first came here seeking answers. What seemed to have solved most of our problems (for now) is that my wife was depressed and moody due to a third shift. She now works days. Since she feels better, she has more interest in sex and intimacy. However, based on comments she made to me, I would have said it was totally emotional and not due to physical reasons. She took ADs back then but no longer does. She still has pain (although not as much) from a medical condition. My point is....it took almost five years of ups and downs, but for the past few months...it has been more ups.

 

This may take you awhile, but you may get answers and solutions. Choose an affair (which I can tell you really don't want to do) and you will ruin any chances of fixing the problem.

 

The idea of an affair is exciting and seems like the answer to your loneliness. And honestly, it may be. You may find life much more bearable. However, it will in the long run, end the relationship that you have with your wife. As long as you have a desire and/or a commitment to your wife, then don't even investigate how that other woman feels about you. As soon as you know she likes you, then she will become the focus of your life. As long as you do not know, then she can be a fantasy and nothing more.

 

As for the loneliness, try to rebuild that friendship with your wife with no expectation of sex. You may be surprised where that will lead.

 

I think you have the resolve and strength to get through this. Totally....I feel for you and know what that loneliness is like. You feel stuck with nobody for support and nothing that appears to even be a way out or a way to fix the problem. The anger and frustration simply must lay inside of you. Hopefully, before you explode, an answer and a solution will be found.

[bentnotbroken]

She good be suffering from a heriditary inbalance that worsens with age and hormone changes. Child birth, pri-menopause, thyroid any number of things. I found out in my 40's what I felt was just mood swings throughout my entire life. I can remember thinking about committing suicide as early as 8 or 9. The first attempt was around 11 or 12. I took a bunch of pills in the medicine cabinet. Turns out they were for an infection and it just turned my pee orange...Thank God. This could get even more serious than you being unhappy. It is possible we are talking life and death.

 

 

I meant to say "could" be suffering:o.

[kuma]

I think I'm trying to convince myself that I can betray her without her knowledge, thus sparing her additional discomfort and keeping the family together. I know a separation or a divorce would devastate her.

 

I doubt you can keep the family together. If you have an affair with your neighbor, you'll fall for her. You'll be more miserable and resent your wife for your unhappiness. Your marriage will get worse.

Edited June 18, 2010 by kuma

[Ronni_W]

To be clear, I'd much rather get it from my wife than from somebody else, but if she's not prepared to take part in the marriage,

Mangled,

I'd encourage you to start thinking in terms of her not being capable, right now, of participating in the marriage. To me, how you've phrased it suggests an unwillingness on her part (even if you didn't consciously mean that), but the truth is that people suffering from depression cannot properly participate in their own lives nevermind their relationships; they are temporarily lacking the necessary inspiration, motivation and inner strength and resources.

 

I do know that, on your side, it feels like you're facing a 6-foot wall of stubborness and disregard -- but that really isn't what's going on on the other side of that wall. If you consider that she does love, admire and appreciate you, then perhaps you'll also come to see that she would not treat you this way on purpose, nor would she really want her own marriage to be like this. We can expect, even trust, that she truly does want better for herself, you and your child -- she just doesn't know how to make that happen, right now. In essence, she is very much where you are...but with diminished mental/emotional strength and capacities.

 

Absolutely agree with you: Do not make "threats" of any kind. Even if she were 100% well, it is never a good idea for a marriage to resort to that -- threats are only good for controlling and manipulating, in my opinion and experience.

 

It's very tough through all the inaction and resentment to find the place inside of you where your Love, Understanding and Compassion lives...but that is exactly what you'd be wisest to do. (The books will help you with this, I promise. Just thinking: Maybe read the first couple of chapters of each, and then decide which one feels like it will offer the most help, soonest.)

 

Thanks for your very constructive comments, you've obviously experienced a great deal yourself, or have been a compassionate witness to somebody else's trials.

Thank you for your kind comments. I'm glad that I've been of some use and, yes, have been in a similar situation myself. Also, when you do get access to the 'private message' system here, feel free to get in touch with me that way, if/when it feels like it might help.

 

Again, wishing you and your wife happy outcomes.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Ronni_W
spelling

[silktricks]

I've told her, though I haven't threatened an affair. But I have told her that I am sad and lonely without intimacy, either emotional or physical, from her. I've told her that I don't want to spend the rest of my life with neither. I've told her that I love her, that I respect her, that I want her, but that if she can't reciprocate, I'm left hurt, angry, confused, and let down. I've asked her, several times, to go to therapy. I've offered to attend with her, or not, whichever her preference. I've offered to go myself, and actually gone. I'm at a loss as to how much more I can tell her.

 

I suppose I could tell her I plan to cheat, or I'm growing open to it. But it seems like emotional blackmail to me. I think I'm trying to convince myself that I can betray her without her knowledge, thus sparing her additional discomfort and keeping the family together. I know a separation or a divorce would devastate her.

 

I also think that if I threaten an affair, I suddenly legitimize her feelings of inadequacy. Thus far, she has managed to maintain an intact marriage and a faithful spouse. It also would, I think, drive us further apart, which doesn't help.

 

Anyway, I'll read the books. It's not like I have anything else to do in the evenings.

 

I'm not into blackmail, but I am very fond of telling the complete and full truth. You need to have a frank talk with your wife. Tell her you love her - or at least love the person she used to be - but you are very unhappy with the current state of affairs.

 

You do not want a divorce, nor do you want to cheat, however given the current state of the marriage you expect that your future will hold one of the two.

 

Ask her if she is happy with the current sate. Ask her what she sees as your future together. Ask her what SHE wants. Ask her if she thinks you and the marriage are worth anything to her. Ask her what she wants.

 

Tell her that you want to save your marriage, but you cannot do it alone. Tell her you love her, but do not like how you are feeling. Ask her if she likes how she is feeling.

 

BTW - though this is of course too long after the birth of the child for it to be post partum depression, that doesn't mean it couldn't be clinical depression that had its start with post partum depression. It could also be that she resents your child and the amount of your attention that goes to the child that formerly went to her. Those aren't easy feelings for a person to face (especially a woman as we're supposed to be so nurturing...)

 

Anyway, pay attention to anything James M. says, 'cuz he's lived where you are for a long time. And really - good luck.

[silktricks]

Of course I've wondered about that. Clearly, when you're in a marriage without any affection, the doubts and insecurities kick in. And if you're right, that would be okay, I could live with that.

 

But at the same time, I'm not going to spend all of my time convincing myself that I've been a bad husband, because I haven't. If she's unhappy with me, she's going to have to tell me that. But she tells me the opposite, asks for assurances that I'll never leave her, but then balks at actual affection.

 

Could she be afraid of getting pregnant?

[Mangled]

Well, this chat has helped immensely, to be frank. I got some well-reasoned advice, and a needed reminder to look at her capacity for affection right now. I'm going to do what I can to figure out my emotional state before deciding on a course of action. I haven't made up my mind one way or another, which I think is healthy, but I'll get some professional help and do some reading. And try to find some ways of coping with my own stress.

 

I might take a trip out of town for a few days, which is likely selfish, but less selfish than the affair, and a safe spot for me - my sister lives out of town, she's great company, and the distraction will do me good.

 

Thanks again for all of the helpful advice.

[NoIDidn't]

Well, this chat has helped immensely, to be frank. I got some well-reasoned advice, and a needed reminder to look at her capacity for affection right now. I'm going to do what I can to figure out my emotional state before deciding on a course of action. I haven't made up my mind one way or another, which I think is healthy, but I'll get some professional help and do some reading. And try to find some ways of coping with my own stress.

 

I might take a trip out of town for a few days, which is likely selfish, but less selfish than the affair, and a safe spot for me - my sister lives out of town, she's great company, and the distraction will do me good.

 

Thanks again for all of the helpful advice.

 

I'm glad some strangers (seems like mainly Ronni) on the Internet were able to help you or get you to further consider your options. The position you are in is not uncommon when dealing with being put in a caretaker position to someone depressed or having some other medical issue that incapacitates them in some way. Affairs (and desires for affairs) are pretty common when a spouse finds out the other is dealing with cancer, or the W is pregnant, or a sick/disabled child in the household. Its common.

 

The professional help for yourself is likely to pay dividends far beyond just this current situation.

 

Good luck, Mangled.

[MsRight]

Just wanting to chime in with my $0.02, which reiterates some others' here. Basically, you have this really unique moment of clarity before you do anything irrevocable. I wasn't that clearheaded or thoughtful (I thought I was, but whatever). Please don't waste this chance to keep your integrity and self-esteem intact. Although you have tried a lot of things to help your W, you are not without more options. I would suggest seeing a counselor or pastor (or whatever if you are religious) to get some help in strategizing what steps to take. That may include bringing her parents in, setting a timetable for her to take certain steps (i.e. counseling, getting into a group hobby or exercise plan, etc) and it may include you sitting down and honestly telling her that you want your marriage to work, but it's not going to unless it changes. Make it clear that you will consider divorce within x timeframe if the two of you aren't able to make identifiable progress. Then follow through and help her when she slips and give her encouragement and try to make it fun, and get her friends and family to do so too.

 

The one thing that is going right for me right now is that I sat down and TOLD my H that our marriage needed to change. It did take a couple of those talks actually, before he really believed me. But he does, we are going to MC, we are putting a lot of effort in, and it has already made a big difference in many ways. Unfortunately for me, I did this AFTER I had already had an affair.

 

Now, I really advocate giving your W a chance to partner with you in this, and it seems like you would ultimately want that, too. But, if you don't, that is fine. You are also allowed to just tell her that you have given it all you want to give, even if she didn't realize that you were at the end of your rope, and you're sorry you can't try anymore and request a divorce. And you can later talk to your neighbor and have the chance to date her or someone else that you meet that is exciting and fun and everything you are missing right now. But, really, don't think you don't have time to work through this with your W or you will miss out on this OW. Time is not as limited as you think. It is not as urgent as it feels. Take one of these more noble paths thoughtfully and deliberately and however things turn out, you will have confidence in your actions.

[Mangled]

Just wanted to post an update. I came on here a couple of weeks ago, really worried and really tempted. I got some helpful advice from a few people here who recommended I take a step back before doing anything.

 

Anyway, I haven't had any success getting in to see a therapist yet - my busy schedule and that of the few professionals who have been recommended have made it difficult to get an appointment. I'm optimistic that I'll get in to see one this Thursday, though.

 

I haven't done anything irrevocable - that is to say that I haven't shagged the neighbour. I've run into her a couple of times at social functions, and have been polite, but restrained. Of course, you know how it works - the less available I appear to be, the stronger the vibe from her. We have exchanged a few texts, innocent ones, and I've kept my responses brief and cordial. Frankly, even though there's a tension between us when we meet, there's nothing in the texts that's suggestive, so I think I've kept it all above board. I tend to exchange texts with lots of people - friends, colleagues, male and female, so there's nothing really unusual about me having a conversation with somebody. But if I'm being honest, I've also been careful not to close the door with her. As I said in my last post, I haven't really decided what I'm doing.

 

But I've changed my behaviour with my wife. Normally, I'm trying to be really nice, supportive, helpful, and "present". But because I really just want to avoid any arguments, and because I'm just really unhappy with her, I've been generally cold. I've also been busy with work, and have had ample valid reasons to stay out of the house. Her reaction has been interesting.

I've never behaved like this around her for a prolonged period of time, and I'm a generally cheerful person. When we have a disagreement, I'm always concerned and motivated to get things resolved. Being distant has brought out a warmer side of her. How ironic is that? I even got sex twice last week, which believe me is out of the norm. That's the first physical contact I've had with her in 8-10 weeks.

 

Life is weird. But I'm feeling more controlled now than I was before, and less likely to do something impulsive.

[spriggig]

Mangled, do you guys have several pets?

 

And this is a long shot, but does she, or has she, read a lot of romance novels?

 

You're describing my marriage almost to a tee, messy house, stay at home mom with one kid, she was depressed and on meds and I didn't know why or how badly--the only exception being that my wife cheated on me.

 

After reading my wife's detailed journal describing her affair and talking to my father-in-law, it seems to me that my wife's inherent avoidance of confrontation and a deep need for outside attention lead to her depression and cheating. What I mean by "outside attention" is that she has never learned to fully love herself, she depends on others to fill that void. The others can be any combination of pets, friends, husbands (I'm the second), her parents, or even voracious, non-stop reading of fantasy novels and the latest--the method by which she found her OM--online role playing games.

 

While she was married to me, she was relying on me to help fill the void in her, a job I failed at mostly because I didn't understand how deep her need was--because we never talked about it, we never talked about any of this. While there was a time just before I married her that I felt desperate to get married and have a kid, I've never felt incomplete when alone. I've never felt that I NEEDED someone to be whole, so I didn't really understand what she expected from me. I think she feels incomplete most of the time. I also think sugar addiction may play a role in her depression.

 

My guess is that your wife needs far more attention than you've given her and that she has tried many times to express this to you, but in oblique ways that you missed or misinterpreted. She may have given up years ago and resigned herself to a miserable life married to you. I'm not blaming you, I understand why and how you missed it, assuming I'm right. I'm not blaming her, dependence is so common it's almost cliche. I'm just trying to explain what might be happening in your marriage as it seems so much like what happened in my marriage.

 

BTW, please don't cheat, you'll end up hurting yourself terribly as well as destroying your family. If your marriage is over, get a divorce, don't cheat.

[Mangled]

No pets, no fantasy novels. She does a tremendous amount of journalling, which I don't read - I figure that's her diary, and without permission, I won't violate it. She also sleeps a lot - she's in bed 2-3 hours before me, and gets up as late as she can get away with - school time during the school year, but now that it's summer, likely closer to 10 or 11 am.

 

I really don't understand her at all anymore. We used to spend more time together and have more to talk about, but I'm not even sure how to give her attention at this point. If I take her for a meal, or encourage her to come for a walk, or for some other social activity that's one-on-one, we have very little to talk about. She doesn't really seem interested in very much I have to say, and frankly I'm guilty of the same disinterest in her conversation. I don't know what happened, but she was more well-rounded years ago. Now her discussions are mainly about small things that just aren't that important to me, and even though I try to be engaged about it, there's a limit to how much I can be. If we get into any deeper topics, she either changes the subject or disagrees with me on any and all points I make. This is also a change - we used to be on the same page philosophically, but not so much anymore. I actually thinks she is just being disagreeable, since in many of these types of subjects, when I overhear her talking to somebody else, she's completely contradicting conversations we'll have had only days earlier. We used to share and celebrate our successes, whether joint or individual, but nowadays, if I have a success at work, she couldn't care less. And I've become pretty quiet in response, leaving us with less to talk about.

 

As far as physically cheating, it's seeming like a more distant reality now. I just went through a bad spell here a few weeks ago, and started entertaining thoughts I hadn't previously considered. But I don't think I could go through with it. However, on an emotional level, I'm not sure I'd turn down regular conversation with an interesting, engaging woman. I know plenty here figure that's just as bad, but I'm not so sure.

[Jjames13]

Mangled,

 

I am on the other side of the window looking back in at my wife having what she calls a friendship. It is not a friendship, she is seeking something else and is not willing to give it up for me right now.

 

Here is some advice for you, take it or leave it. Since your wife likes journaling, go buy her a journal. When you give it to her, tell her that if there is anything that she would like to talk about you are there for her in the future and tell her that you may not have been there for her in the past. One thing that I learned from talking to my wife is that she did not want any advice in most cases or me to even talk to her, rather someone to just listen to and understand. I am a problem solver and needed to put my $0.02 in everytime and that was a huge turn off to her. This guy that she is interacting with is a Psycologist and is married. He is a great listener and does not put his $0.02 all the time. I am not saying that you are doing this but I was and did not even know it. I thought when my wife was coming to discuss things with me and did not know what to do, she was seeking advice from me. Not the case at all, she just wanted to vent.

 

Another thing is probably your work. It seems like you are too into your work from the postings that I have read. She may feel like #2 to your work which is #1. This may not be the case but she may feel that way.

 

Here is something that you may want to try. Come home early from work 1 day and give your wife your full attention. It also helps to bring a gift, flowers, etc... that your wife likes. This will show her that you were indeed thinking of her and she will respond, it is inherent nature to respond to things that are appeeling to you. Also see if you can have 1 hour of time everyother day for just the 2 of you. Turn all cell phones, TV, etc... off and just talk to her about her day. Forget about yours for the 1st couple times that you do this. It will show that you are truly interested in what she has to say. Also, ask her how she feels about you and your relationship. Ask her things like what are the top 2 things she loves about you and what are the top 2 things she cannot stand about you. Make sure that you do not diminish any of her thoughts and listen more than respond. Make sure that you are getting clear answers, too. If you feel that you are not getting the full answers, ask simple statements like "Can you tell me more about..." This opens the gate for her to elaborate more about it if she chooses to. If she does not choose to go into further details, move on. It is amazing what people can find out if they allow people to say certain things and not be judged for what they say.

 

I am still working through my issues with my wife and it is not easy. I am still getting hurt everyday but there is a common goal that my wife and I have and I am sure that this is true for you and your wife. We both want to be happy. This may mean us getting a divorce at the end of it, and I am leaning towards that right now, but I really need to be happy and so does she. Life is too short to be miserable.

[her_halo_slipped]

Your W is depressed, clinically depressed. Instead of cheating on her, you need to be finding ways to help her beyond telling her to go to therapy.

 

Everything you mentioned - self-absorbed, dirty house, she doesn't care anymore, mood swings - all hint at a pretty major depression and some self-medicating with food and alcohol.

 

Have you considered getting to the bottom of what is ailing her? Cheating is only going to compound the problem, and make you feel like a heel for hurting her more.

 

Maybe she has just ended her own affair? Hence her depressed state of mind? I mean it wouldn't be the first time. No such thing as a perfect relationship right? Just a thought