Affair fog? Is it anything like tear gas?

[NoIDidn't]

How much of the "fog", is the inability to face facts? Or to look at their actions (WS and OP) objectively? Many of you tell how you were blinded to the AP'S faults, how so?

 

But, Joe, it isn't the inability to "face" facts, they practically have a forcefield keeping them oblivious to them. They can't see them in order to face them when in the fog.

 

Everyone, at some point or another, has experienced a fog. Its when you are so engrossed in something that you can't think straight. You can be so angry that you see red - that's similar to the fog. People can try to talk you out of wanting to kill someone, but you are dead set on it. Even if they tell you what you believe that person did to deserve death wasn't true, that anger keeps you from wanting to calm down long enough to accept or even receive it.

 

People have the mistaken idea that "the fog" is an excuse to immediately forgive a Wayward. Its not. It just explains why they are so resistant to what they are being asked for sometimes. The same waywards often as "WTF was I thinking" and its not to appease the betrayed. Its because its true.

 

We've all had these situations of "fog" come up. Just in As, it seems unacceptable to some to even say it exists. Maybe they feel that acknowledging the fog minimizes their involvement in a "R". It doesn't, at least not IMO. The betrayed don't hurt any less just for acknowledging its effects. Believe me.

[JustJoe]

So, NID, do you believe that the "fog", is somehow elemental? You talk of a "force-field", as if it was some kind of predisposition. "The devil made me cheat", so I have no control, sort of thing.

[marlena]

But, Joe, it isn't the inability to "face" facts, they practically have a forcefield keeping them oblivious to them. They can't see them in order to face them when in the fog.

 

Everyone, at some point or another, has experienced a fog. Its when you are so engrossed in something that you can't think straight. You can be so angry that you see red - that's similar to the fog. People can try to talk you out of wanting to kill someone, but you are dead set on it. Even if they tell you what you believe that person did to deserve death wasn't true, that anger keeps you from wanting to calm down long enough to accept or even receive it.

 

People have the mistaken idea that "the fog" is an excuse to immediately forgive a Wayward. Its not. It just explains why they are so resistant to what they are being asked for sometimes. The same waywards often as "WTF was I thinking" and its not to appease the betrayed. Its because its true.

 

We've all had these situations of "fog" come up. Just in As, it seems unacceptable to some to even say it exists. Maybe they feel that acknowledging the fog minimizes their involvement in a "R". It doesn't, at least not IMO. The betrayed don't hurt any less just for acknowledging its effects. Believe me.

 

Very good analogies NID. It's just like that, it is a state of confusion brought on my intense, overpowering feelings, an obsession almost. It's only after you have distanced yourself that you gain perspective and think:"What the heck was I thinking?"

[MizFit]

But, Joe, it isn't the inability to "face" facts, they practically have a forcefield keeping them oblivious to them. They can't see them in order to face them when in the fog.

 

Everyone, at some point or another, has experienced a fog. Its when you are so engrossed in something that you can't think straight. You can be so angry that you see red - that's similar to the fog. People can try to talk you out of wanting to kill someone, but you are dead set on it. Even if they tell you what you believe that person did to deserve death wasn't true, that anger keeps you from wanting to calm down long enough to accept or even receive it.

 

People have the mistaken idea that "the fog" is an excuse to immediately forgive a Wayward. Its not. It just explains why they are so resistant to what they are being asked for sometimes. The same waywards often as "WTF was I thinking" and its not to appease the betrayed. Its because its true.

 

We've all had these situations of "fog" come up. Just in As, it seems unacceptable to some to even say it exists. Maybe they feel that acknowledging the fog minimizes their involvement in a "R". It doesn't, at least not IMO. The betrayed don't hurt any less just for acknowledging its effects. Believe me.

 

I see what you're saying here and I agree we have all felt it...well, I would imagine we have ALL felt it. The thing is it's a reaction of passion and is normally gone almost as quickly as it's there. Very few times when people are in this situation would it linger for months and years...that's my opinion anyway.

 

I also see the crime of passion as a protection rather than something self serving. Someone hurts your child or your spouse and you want to kill them...that I can see. I don't understand how the 'fog' can be compared...when in a fog the WS is hurting every single party involved...they are protecting no one but themself.

 

I realize people can talk themselves into anything and sustain it for an incredibly long time, but to the degree of some of the LT As that go on? Five years...10 years within a span of 20...2 years...through multiple Ddays and going on to 3rd and 4th years. I just can't see 'fog' as part of a long term A. A ONS or a situation where something lasted a month and the WS openly admitted to BS what happened and needed to bring themself around.

 

I hope I understood what you said and explained myself properly! If not, blame it on the lack of coffee!

[marlena]

I think that the reason some affairs last long, mine did for five years, is the false hope that something long-term will come out of it. This is where the lying starts and delusion and/ or denial set in. Another thing that causes the affair to last so long is it's very nature. It is more sustainable because it is not grounded in reality. The two people live in a kind of coccoon where the only thing that matters is feeding their passion. They are oblivious to the pain it causes others or simply do not care. All that matters is getting their fix. In this respect, they are very much like addicts.

 

I'm not saying they're passion and love is not real. To them, it is very real. And unique. I often wonder if their passion and love would be sustainable within the confines of a marriage. Somehow, I doubt it.

 

This is what makes affairs so attractive. They offer an escape from reality. That's why after D-day, after the day of revelation, the whole edifice collapses like a deck of cards. Welcome to the real world again.

[JustJoe]

So suspension of reality is part of the "fog"? I guess that's why I never felt it. I'm too grounded. In my affair, she was the one who expressed undying love and hope for a future for us. I knew that I was/am in love with her, but always knew that it wasn't going anywhere, and so I was able to enjoy the passion for what it was/is.

[marlena]

So suspension of reality is part of the "fog"? I guess that's why I never felt it. I'm too grounded. In my affair, she was the one who expressed undying love and hope for a future for us. I knew that I was/am in love with her, but always knew that it wasn't going anywhere, and so I was able to enjoy the passion for what it was/is.

 

For many, it is. The problem arises when the two affair partners aren't on the same page about their affair and one of the two has expectations that the other can not or does not want to meet.

 

It's different when both people are in an affair and set the rules of the game right from the start. For instance, one might make it clear from the start that he/she does not intend to leave his/her spouse, children, family, assets etc... for anyone, ever. If the other person is fine with this, then, trouble rarely starts.

 

It's only when one of the two changes and starts making demands wanting more and more out of the relationship that touble begins to brew in heaven. As long as both people are grounded and accept the terms of the affair, there is no fog. The fog only begins to gather when this balance gets disrupted, IMO.

[MizFit]

I think that the reason some affairs last long, mine did for five years, is the false hope that something long-term will come out of it. This is where the lying starts and delusion and/ or denial set in. Another thing that causes the affair to last so long is it's very nature. It is more sustainable because it is not grounded in reality. The two people live in a kind of coccoon where the only thing that matters is feeding their passion. They are oblivious to the pain it causes others or simply do not care. All that matters is getting their fix. In this respect, they are very much like addicts.

 

I'm not saying they're passion and love is not real. To them, it is very real. And unique. I often wonder if their passion and love would be sustainable within the confines of a marriage. Somehow, I doubt it.

 

This is what makes affairs so attractive. They offer an escape from reality. That's why after D-day, after the day of revelation, the whole edifice collapses like a deck of cards. Welcome to the real world again.

 

Very interesting comments...now to play devils advocate. I read so many OW/OM on here who are so hurt in the midst of their As...they're torn to shreds from the inside out. Is this not worse than any 'reality' they could face with the AP? I guess what I'm saying is this...if it was all hearts and flowers and gifts and happy times I could agree with you. It's hurt and lonely nights and broken promises and all sorts...if it was a fog why wouldn't this have burned off through all of that? Also, I've seen some of the lengths MM has gone to in order to keep the A going...he's not in a fog...he's making a clear and conscious decision with every lie and every drive to see me.

 

I don't buy into the addiction thing either, but that's a matter of me rather than anything. I can understand where the comparison is, but I just don't buy it. Again, I think if you're in a relationship it's tough to get out of and the deeper you are the tougher it is. That's with a single person or a parent or anyone else. As a minister said at a funeral...the more we loved, the harder we grieve. I think that's true of deaths and of relationships, no matter what they are.

 

Interesting thread Joe...I love talks about stuff like this because there isn't fingerpointing and namecalling...just good chat and debate.

[JustJoe]

Thanks MIz, but it's the quality of the posters, who make it entertaining and educational, not me.

[MizFit]

For many, it is. The problem arises when the two affair partners aren't on the same page about their affair and one of the two has expectations that the other can not or does not want to meet.

 

It's different when both people are in an affair and set the rules of the game right from the start. For instance, one might make it clear from the start that he/she does not intend to leave his/her spouse, children, family, assets etc... for anyone, ever. If the other person is fine with this, then, trouble rarely starts.

 

It's only when one of the two changes and starts making demands wanting more and more out of the relationship that touble begins to brew in heaven. As long as both people are grounded and accept the terms of the affair, there is no fog. The fog only begins to gather when this balance gets disrupted, IMO.

 

Interesting concept with the balance. I am curious how this would affect the WS...are you saying that if they are in the fog they are out of balance and their thoughts of what the A was have changed? I can see it if you're saying for the OW/OM, but what about the WS?

 

Sorry...I seem to be coming at your responses, but it just seems so good to have a neutral discussion about it.

 

Joe...we love ya buddy...

[marlena]

Very interesting comments...now to play devils advocate. I read so many OW/OM on here who are so hurt in the midst of their As...they're torn to shreds from the inside out. Is this not worse than any 'reality' they could face with the AP? I guess what I'm saying is this...if it was all hearts and flowers and gifts and happy times I could agree with you. It's hurt and lonely nights and broken promises and all sorts...if it was a fog why wouldn't this have burned off through all of that? Also, I've seen some of the lengths MM has gone to in order to keep the A going...he's not in a fog...he's making a clear and conscious decision with every lie and every drive to see me.

 

Affairs are not different in so far as feelings are concerned than any other relationship. They stay because they are in love despite everything. Or weak. Or lonely. Or frightened of soltitude or whatever. They stay for the same reasons that any woman/man stays in a normal relationship. Denial. Need. Hope that something will change in the future. Many people stay in destructive, unhappy relationships/marriages. The affair person is not different.

 

I don't buy into the addiction thing either, but that's a matter of me rather than anything. I can understand where the comparison is, but I just don't buy it.

There is always a degree of addiction where "in love" is concerned. We need that person. That need is an addiction of sorts. For some greater, for others less. But it is there in some degree or form. Also, the partners in an affair base a lot of their passion in carnal pleasures. That, in itself, is a hard thing to give up.

 

Again, I think if you're in a relationship it's tough to get out of and the deeper you are the tougher it is. That's with a single person or a parent or anyone else. As a minister said at a funeral...the more we loved, the harder we grieve. I think that's true of deaths and of relationships, no matter what they are.

Absolutely. The more we love, the more we grieve the loss of that love.

 

Interesting thread Joe...I love talks about stuff like this because there isn't fingerpointing and namecalling...just good chat and debate.

Yes, it is nice,isn't it? And a welcome change! Edited June 18, 2010 by marlena

[JustJoe]

Marlena, ditto what I said to Mizfit. People like you are what makes this fun.

[marlena]

I find it interesting that the ancient Greeks had two words for love (still do, in fact).

 

One is eros which would be the equivalent of "in love."

 

The other is agapi which means a broader, more encompassing love.

 

Normally, we feel eros first and then if we are lucky, this turns into agapi.

 

I tend to believe that people in affairs are "in love". Whether or not that "in love" feeling turns into the other,more lasting love can only be ascertained after the affair is over and they live together on a daily basis, sharing their lives in every sense of the word.

[marlena]

Marlena, ditto what I said to Mizfit. People like you are what makes this fun.

 

 

JJ, any thread you start could only be top-notch quality. I love your capacity to discuss things intelligently and respectfully. Too bad you are taken!

[Fight4Me]

Hope you don't mind me chiming in, and giving my opinion on what the "fog" may or may not be. I think the best explanation/term that fits psychologically is "cognitive dissonance." It may be easier for me to aptly recognize and describe my fWH's thinking because his A was relatively short (6 wks), and his behavior was so starkly contrasted to his usual character. By the way, before I go any further, I want to emphasize that I think the "fog" for WS's is different than perhaps that of an OM/OW, and there is supposedly a BS fog as well.

 

At any rate, I think the "fog" or cognitive dissonance on the part of the WS is a type of coping mechanism, at least I know it was for my fWH. He was compromising his integrity, which was something he valued greatly, so in order to cope, he began employing attitudes that would justify his actions. I can't tell you how confusing it is to see the person you've known (both the good and the bad) for 23 years become a complete stranger. We had always been the best communicators, and we never could go to bed without resolving our differences. But I was suddenly cut off from him, shut out in a way that was so foreign to me. I had become suddenly very ill, so I attributed it to that at the time, so I put my energy in getting well knowing that I couldn't effectively address the latest issue until I was.

 

I never had to discover the affair. He came to me, actually seeking a divorce. He told me everything at that point, and to say I was shocked was an understatement. He had it all planned out, and the details of those plans were so far fetched. In fact, I remember having to fight back giggles at the time because he was totally serious. After that, I expressed that I didn't want a divorce, that in spite of what he thought, I actually loved him with my entire being, and that I never would stop loving him no matter what. Then, I went into preservation-mode. Asked him to go NC with OW until we had the chance to work out some details and to give me the respect I deserved to process what was happening. I never begged, never pleaded, but I knew deep down in my core, that divorce wasn't going to happen. At the very least, I was going keenly observe (not snoop), in order to see if the man I've known for over half my life would show himself again so I could speak rationally with him.

 

Two hours later, I'm on the phone with the one person on my side of the family I had told, and here comes my WH, who stood in the doorway, with a look of sudden horror and clarity on his face. I hung up, and the next thing I know he's saying, "I think I just made a huge mistake." That was the beginning of the breach in his "fog" or whatever. Within the next few days, I observed him wrestle with himself and God. He made an appointment with our pastor and wife, and I just remember sort of floating along for the ride, which looking back now, makes me thankful because I can say I didn't directly influence him, other than to be there.

 

I'm getting kind of side-tracked. Needless to say, he did not seek a D, and because he became remorseful and became a better man, husband, and father, I have forgiven him. We still talk about what happened because we believe it's important to go over some issues and because we have been finding ourselves in positions to minister to others who have been touched by infidelity. He has analyzed the process he went through when the A was in its beginning stages. He said the easiest way for him to disengage from me was to decide to dislike me. I found that very interesting, and rather insightful, and honestly, believe it to be one of the key aspects to his own "fog" and his ability to maintain it.

 

That's my take, for what it's worth.

[Owl]

Just a suggestion...do a search for previous threads about "affair fog". There have been a number of excellent discussions on the subject...you might glean some additional insight from some of those previous threads.

[silktricks]

As I think I said before - I'm not really fond of the word "fog" for the description of rewriting history - or redefining a situation - which is what happened in my/our case, but I think this is what most people mean it to be.

 

My husband did the opposite of his most firmly held beliefs. He never had any use for anyone who cheated, and in fact had dropped friendships with people who did so. He became a stranger in many ways and (of course) a liar.

 

He redefined me, and then treated me as if I actually was the person he redefined me as - I of course then tended to react poorly (bad me ).

 

The OW - he convinced himself that she was a special person, innocent and needing protection. He was able to do this primarily because for the most part his was an LDR. Whenever he actually was able to spend some time in her presence he would recover somewhat... then when the EA would recommence via email, his imagination would take over again - at least that is my interpretation of a combination of our discussions and my memories at the conclusion of the affair.

 

After the affair concluded, and the further it moved into the past the more he realized that he had both rewritten me (and my feelings for him) and her (and what kind of person she really was.)

 

Is that fog?

[Spark1111]

For me it was seeing someone trying to move, think and feel through pea soup, hence, fog.

 

Not while the affair was ongoing: He had been brilliant in keeping his life so extremely compartmentalized that I guess it was working for him. He was extremely arrogant during his affair and I guess that is the justification or feeling of self-entitlement he had to have to have both an OW and a spouse and family.

 

It was after DDAy, when the light of day was shone on his actions and they could no longer be kept in his little boxes where they had worked so well for so long.Justifications? Laughable. Self-entitlement? Pronounced.

Confusion and depression to the point of delusion? Very much so.

 

 

Wife raging and crying and saying go get her.

 

Children crying and angry, yelling "How could you?"

 

OW frightened, but supportive, first saying "We will get through this," to a few weeks later saying, "You obviously love her. Go try and make it work with her."

 

Man in the middle? Walking through pea soup, alternately depressed and very angry, wanting what??????

 

For it all to go back to the way it was: In little boxes where it was manageable, and without consequences......very similiar to an addict needing a fix he can no longer have.

 

Fog.

[Spark1111]

As I think I said before - I'm not really fond of the word "fog" for the description of rewriting history - or redefining a situation - which is what happened in my/our case, but I think this is what most people mean it to be.

 

My husband did the opposite of his most firmly held beliefs. He never had any use for anyone who cheated, and in fact had dropped friendships with people who did so. He became a stranger in many ways and (of course) a liar.

 

He redefined me, and then treated me as if I actually was the person he redefined me as - I of course then tended to react poorly (bad me ).

 

The OW - he convinced himself that she was a special person, innocent and needing protection. He was able to do this primarily because for the most part his was an LDR. Whenever he actually was able to spend some time in her presence he would recover somewhat... then when the EA would recommence via email, his imagination would take over again - at least that is my interpretation of a combination of our discussions and my memories at the conclusion of the affair.

 

After the affair concluded, and the further it moved into the past the more he realized that he had both rewritten me (and my feelings for him) and her (and what kind of person she really was.)

 

Is that fog?

 

I think so yes! The inability to see your reality as it is, only what you NEED it to be to fill YOUR NEEDS.

 

He "forgot" how much I loved him. (???????)

 

He "believed" everyone only wanted him for his paycheck or prestige, and when he had been down on the balls of his azz, everyone rejected him. (???????)

 

He "thought" if he made enough money, he'd buy us off and they could then be together, is what he told her. (???????)

 

We never have sex! (Twice a week at least.)???????

 

Yes, delusional thinking which leads to creating false scenarios to keep all the little boxes separate and continuing to feed your needs.

[JustJoe]

Thanks, Hoot, that's a good suggestion. I will look them up. Marlena, Yes I am taken , but that doesn't mean I'm immune to somebody as fine as you.