JustJoe Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 I've read, here on LS, how many posters talk about being in the "affair fog". This miraculous miasma seems to have magical powers to turn basically good, mature, people into deceitful, foolish, children. I, myself, have never been subject to it's properties, and have always known that the affair was wrong, and that I was responsible for a good portion of it. I have also NEVER believed anything my MW told me about her marriage, without verifying the truth, independently. So I guess I'm wondering, how my fellow LS'ers feel about this interesting issue. I would like all posters to participate, BS, WS, or OP, to teach me about the "affair fog", how you get it and how it affects/affected you. As always, I would like every poster to be polite, and express any disagreement, with courtesy.
donnamaybe Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 You might liken it to what may be termed as an "idiot bomb" which renders its victims incapable of cognitive thinking skills for a period of time.
marlena Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 You might liken it to what may be termed as an "idiot bomb" which renders its victims incapable of cognitive thinking skills for a period of time. Or to madness...pure insanity, a loss of rational thinking and sound judgement. Nothing matters, absolutely nothing, other than being with the object of your desire. Often it is accompanied by a tendency to idealize the affair partner and the union itself, when in reality, it is simply another relationship just like any other, subject to the same wear and tear. I think what makes an affair so intense and passionate is the secrecy involved, the engaging in something "forbidden" and "sinful", the "they" against "us" dynamic which is intoxicating in and of itself as it lends romance and drama to the relationship. Everyone loves a love story full of obstacles and hardships. |Once the affair is over or comes to light, all that intrigue is gone and what's left is just the sordid and mundane side of it. It's an illusion, not grounded in reality at all until the fog ligts, that is.
MizFit Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 A male friend of mine was a WS years and years ago. He left his W to be with the OW, but it was after 2 attempts to R with his W. One attempt was shy of 2 years with NC with the OW...then they were EA for about 6 months and she broke it off with him again. This time he tried to R with his W for just over a year. He said he didn't experience a fog...he said what he experienced was being in love with another woman and taking the decision to stay with his W and kids because it was what he was supposed to do. He said there was no fog...he loved her. He did say that he had one point when his BS rightfully came down on him like a ton of bricks and it was like a slap that he needed to behave. He said it didn't do anything to change his feelings...it made him panic. He likened it to when his teenage daughter knew she'd pushed Dad's buttons to the point she knew it was dangerous. He said it was a short sharp shock, but only changed how he was acting, not how he was feeling. I also think often of Devil Inside and his posts. I had just come on here when he was still speaking of his OW with so much love and affection. Looking back I don't think he acted like he had any sort of epiphany. I will admit I don't know because I wasn't familiar with what was going on and didn't read his posts as well as I could have. With that said...I've read things by Spark and several other BS who can see the clarity on their WS faces. Like a lightbulb going off and finally they 'get it' and everything changes for the better. So...I have no idea if it's real or not. I have no idea if it's real sometimes and not others (assume so as people are all different). Just some observations from here and real life. Interesting JJ...
Author JustJoe Posted June 17, 2010 Author Posted June 17, 2010 Miz, I think that you and Marlena have different perspectives, but both have valid points. Marlena is talking about the irrationality and drama of an affair, while you are talking about the very real feelings that AP'S may have for each other. I wonder if repressed sexuality has anything to do with the "fog"?
MizFit Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 Miz, I think that you and Marlena have different perspectives, but both have valid points. Marlena is talking about the irrationality and drama of an affair, while you are talking about the very real feelings that AP'S may have for each other. I wonder if repressed sexuality has anything to do with the "fog"? As far as the irrationality...to me it's like being in love. People who are in love turn their backs on lifelong friends and family members. Is the fog nothing more than the first bit of falling in love when everything is dramatic and new? Does the affair fog 'wear off' or lift while in the A...kind of like when you're going out with someone and you've just noticed they way they chew is driving you nuts...all the things that were cute are putting you over the edge? You're right JJ...I did take it from another stance and I'm sorry if that wasn't the way you wanted to go with the thread.
Author JustJoe Posted June 17, 2010 Author Posted June 17, 2010 Miz, It's All good! I"m wanting as many different opinions as I can get. Yours is perfectly valid and quite interesting.
marlena Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 Here's what I saw when I exited the fog, when the veil was lifted and I could see and think straight. a. his duplicity b. his lies c. his lack of integrity d. his procrastination e. his loyalties f. his limitations g. his priorities f. his cowardice I am not saying that the feelings were not real, oh, no far from it, they were very real. And very intense. It lasted five long years. What I should have seen was the outcome. The signs were all there.
marlena Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 On second thought, I did see the signs but I deluded myself into believing something else. Yes, absolutely,delusion. That was the fog.
donnamaybe Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 On second thought, I did see the signs but I deluded myself into believing something else. Yes, absolutely,delusion. That was the fog. But now you have yourself back. I wish that for others in that situation I see on here day after day. Those who delude themselves with talk of "split self" personalities and other psychobabble to explain away their MM/MW's selfish behavior.
ladydesigner Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 On second thought, I did see the signs but I deluded myself into believing something else. Yes, absolutely,delusion. That was the fog. Yes my A was a delusion as well. I definitely had the A fog now it has turned into more of a WTF was I thinking. Funny how the illusion changes.
marlena Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 But now you have yourself back. I wish that for others in that situation I see on here day after day. Those who delude themselves with talk of "split self" personalities and other psychobabble to explain away their MM/MW's selfish behavior. Yes, Donna, I do have myself back and a good life. I would never, ever walk down that road again. Lesson learned. Many people back then, this was six years ago, forewarned me but, of course, I didn't listen. I thought my affair was different, sublime, heavenly, destined to happen. That's the thing with humans, we have to learn our lessons by ourselves, through our own experiences.
marlena Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 Yes my A was a delusion as well. I definitely had the A fog now it has turned into more of a WTF was I thinking. Funny how the illusion changes. Exactly. I think of it as "temporary insanity." f I were taken to court for it, that's what I would plead. And it would be the truth. Love does that to people. I think it was Freud who said that the closest people come to madness is love.
seren Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 Some people call it the Fog. my H calls it the time when he had his head up his a***. I think that it is difficult to say that all A's are influenced by fog, some A's are based upon two people meeting and falling in love. That one or both are married is of course not ideal (understatement), but it happens. Then I would expect them to leave their marriages. I think that someone only realises that they were in a fog is on D Day. When the BS knows and says they aren't knowingly prepared to have a third person in their marriage and lays down what works for them that the WS has to look at both R's and make a decision. Very often this is likened to seeing the A for what is was and also seeing the marriage for what it was. I clearly remember my H on D Day saying to me, WTF have I done? WTF was I thinking? It clearly was a wake up moment, if he could've faked that, then he deserves an Oscar or three. The speed in which he ended it was proof of his want to distance himself from what he had been doing, and the OW. From that moment on, the person he had become changed, he became the person I had always known him to be, and boy was I glad he had come home, so to speak. The A wasn't about me or OW, it was about him and the state of our marriage. He says that when the A began, he was so overwhelmed by stress (Iraq), our problems, him feeling not good enough for me, his lack of self esteem and that he knew that he was being a total tw**. He is a typical conflict avoider, not helped by me being a stand my ground and face things head on type. He says that the A allowed him to escape, to be the person he wanted to be with me, but felt he had gone so far down the road, that I didn't like him (I didn't like his behaviour) and him not knowing where to begin to fix it. I have used fog analogy to ask how he was feeling - he says he felt nothing. Perhaps in his instance he was not so much in a fog as a vaccum.
wheelwright Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 I used to refer to it as Affair Fungus. Because if you don't get rid of it completely, it keeps coming back. This a pointless argument. Because Fungus is difficult to get rid of, but so is love. Getting rid of it (i.e. fog lifts) doesn't prove anything at all. It is a decision about commitment, nothing more or less. And commitment is a huge part of lasting love. These discussions about which love -M love or A love - is more real strike me as ridiculous. The APs know. The MPs know. There is no fog. There are choices. Sometimes these involve appreciating the BS. Then when choices are made, people are good at getting over it or not - perhaps depending on their history. For fog read lust or infatuation. Both are essentially unimportant. Love is important. APs know it when they feel it. BSs know it when their WS felt it. I vote for a realisation from both sides - that the WS love the BS, and that s/he also loved the AP. Then made a decision not based wholly on love, but at least partly. Fog equals the decision between partners has not been made. It is not a spooky A thing. I could spend an eternity speculating that my xMOM's decision was made in fog. That he didn't know his right mind when he decided to stay with his wife. I do not. He made a choice. No fog. 'The fog' is a cultural tool for dismissing As. When they are over. And very useful for the BS/WS who are reconciling. It makes it much easier.
Author JustJoe Posted June 17, 2010 Author Posted June 17, 2010 How much of the "fog", is the inability to face facts? Or to look at their actions (WS and OP) objectively? Many of you tell how you were blinded to the AP'S faults, how so?
seren Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 You know one of the things I would love H to be able to tell me is that he had an A for love. I have told him this, that I could better understand him having an A for love, risking our marriage and relationship for love, than for what is was. He cannot because in his instance, that's not what it is about. We have discussed this backwards and forwards and everywhere in between, but he says he cannot say something, even to make me more accepting of the A. XOW told me she loved him, I have no doubt she did, I also have no doubt that H was really kind to her, but he didn't love her. I bloody hate fog as a reason, I would much rather a clear blue skies kind of thinking. All A's are different. See, I get love, I don't get risking all for lust. H hasn't got to lie to me, hell sometimes I wish he would. But that's how it is. If he chooses to identify his experiences as Fog, slush, pea soup or head up his a*** then I accept that he was there, I wasn't and out of the three of us, he is the one that truly knows what was going on, how he felt, as he had a foot in each camp.
Author JustJoe Posted June 17, 2010 Author Posted June 17, 2010 So in your case, Seren, your H was besotted by lust and that was his form of "fog"?
marlena Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 How much of the "fog", is the inability to face facts? Or to look at their actions (WS and OP) objectively? Many of you tell how you were blinded to the AP'S faults, how so? I thought our love was unique and could conquer all. I thought his loyalties would lie with me, that he would never betray us if push came to shove. I was a naive fool to believe this. I bought into his every excuse when all he was doing was buying time. I stayed five long years trusting that he would follow through with his promises and when D-day happened, the mask dropped and I saw him for who he really was. A coward basically. When all is said and done, I don't doubt that he loved me but only that he did not love me ENOUGH. My goodness, so many I-s!!
seren Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 Hi Joe, wish it was even lust, fact is he couldn't complete - not for want of trying I am sure. Background is that H had just returned from Iraq, had a pretty bad time, lost 2 friends, one he was unable to help and held himself responsible as their leader. He came back a very different man, had a very different outlook, felt less than, I tried, believe me I tried to get him to open up, get help, he gambled without my knowledge, I had treatment for the big C, life was pretty dire. I on the other hand was flying up the ranks in my profession, he continued to feel less than. I believe that he hated the man he thought he was, I believe that he saw the A as an opportunity to be who he wanted to be, but couldn't allow himself to be with me as he felt ashamed. He could also not talk about his problems as in the A, he didn't have to. He often, during that time said he didn't feel good enough, was a bad man. I tried to assure and reassure him, but it didn't work. I don't delude myself, if it were for lust then he truly would say, he knows that I love him, always have and that I have his back and give him the space to say what he likes - I so would want it to be for a or b fact is it was for H. probably one of the reasons I have empathy for OW as I feel she was used.
Author JustJoe Posted June 17, 2010 Author Posted June 17, 2010 I'm a veteran of Iraq, myself and can relate. Has he been treated for PTSD? This is another thing> Do the circumstances of the initial attraction add to the fog/
seren Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 Hi again Joe - having a posting session time. Yes, once H had opened up to me, I quit my job, moved onto base to be nearer him and we got help with the PTSD. I think that XOW gave him a place where he could just be the man he wanted to be, didn't have to be himself. In a weird way I am glad he had an outlet, just sorry it wasn't me. Without the circumstances at the time, I truly do not think the A would have happened. Stupid thing is, we were and still are very much in love.
marlena Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 When all is said and done, I don't doubt that he loved me but only that he did not love me ENOUGH. Just wanted to add, or it was not in keeping with his character to abandon his family and children. He was a weak man. That's another thing I saw once the fog lifted. Whatever the reasons, it really doesn't matter anymore. Although I have chosen to take the good things from this relationship and forget the bad, one thing I know for certain, is that I would never put myself through something like this again.
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