Mr White Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 Like many women before (and after) you you are really focusing on the wrong sort of details. This "checklist" approach to dating is probably the worst development in contemporary relationships. We like to pretend that we've evolved from the dark ages when people married out of necessity, but in reality we're still stuck in the same approach, except the level of selfishness has been dialed to cosmic hights (my mate must be this, must be that, on and on and on, while in the past people probbaly only had 1-2 basic criteria). In reality, many of the items on these checklists have nothing to do with love, and everything to do with satisfying our own egos. Thankfully, I think I've catched myself in time, to avoid this pretty self-destructive line of thinking. So is my gf. This is the advice she once gave to her single girlfriends lamenting on and on about the jerk that won't return their calls: "You know what, it doesn't matter that much what kind of job he has and how much money he has, what really matters the most is if he loves you". I was quite impressed with this type of insight, which in turn made me appreciate her even more, especially since it works in reverse too: yeah, I got the job and the intellect and the status whatever, but I am also so full of other shortcomings that it would be incredibly stupid to focus on my gf's grammar or logic than on the fundamentally most important fact that she loves me. So, she may not have a PhD in math, but she can still teach you (and me) something...
SadandConfusedWA Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 Like many women before (and after) you you are really focusing on the wrong sort of details. This "checklist" approach to dating is probably the worst development in contemporary relationships. We like to pretend that we've evolved from the dark ages when people married out of necessity, but in reality we're still stuck in the same approach, except the level of selfishness has been dialed to cosmic hights (my mate must be this, must be that, on and on and on, while in the past people probbaly only had 1-2 basic criteria). In reality, many of the items on these checklists have nothing to do with love, and everything to do with satisfying our own egos. Thankfully, I think I've catched myself in time, to avoid this pretty self-destructive line of thinking. So is my gf. This is the advice she once gave to her single girlfriends lamenting on and on about the jerk that won't return their calls: "You know what, it doesn't matter that much what kind of job he has and how much money he has, what really matters the most is if he loves you". I was quite impressed with this type of insight, which in turn made me appreciate her even more, especially since it works in reverse too: yeah, I got the job and the intellect and the status whatever, but I am also so full of other shortcomings that it would be incredibly stupid to focus on my gf's grammar or logic than on the fundamentally most important fact that she loves me. So, she may not have a PhD in math, but she can still teach you (and me) something... This is only true if you love that person in return. I can not love someone who is significantly less intelligent than me (it turns me off so much). I also couldn't fall in love with an obese man (again a huge turn off). I have also been in love with men that didn't love me back. Obviously, they couldn't care less if I loved them.
Kentucky Jelly Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 I want a woman who is as dumb as I am, or maybe as smart as I am. Either way works, just so long as we are about the same.
SadandConfusedWA Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 I want a woman who is as dumb as I am, or maybe as smart as I am. Either way works, just so long as we are about the same. That is what I want as well. Sidenote: "love" is never enough in a relationship. My parents have completly different personalities and levels of intelligence. They were also madly in love when they met and married within 6 months. While they were happy the first 3 years of marriage or so, as time went on their differences became more and more obvious. My mum tells me every single day that if she could do it all over again, she would have never married my dad.
Woggle Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 It depends on how you define intelligence. There are many women and men for that matter who have plenty of book smarts but are as dumb as rock when it comes to relationships. Why do you think so many smart and successful women make so many relationship mistakes?
Mr White Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 This is only true if you love that person in return. I can not love someone who is significantly less intelligent than me (it turns me off so much). I also couldn't fall in love with an obese man (again a huge turn off). I have also been in love with men that didn't love me back. Obviously, they couldn't care less if I loved them. That's fine, as long as you are intimately aware of the nature and the source of your preferences and have a clear distinction between the "must haves" and the "nice to have's". You want what you want, and that's fine. I just don't understand why get so worked up when other's preferences don't match yours. I also don't understand why do you need to operate from the baseline of such exageratted discrepancies - this almost never happens. Yeah, I probably wouldn't be able to date a woman from some undeveloped rice dump in Asia, who has no education and brain whatsoever (unless she's unbelievably hot ), but yeah, where am I going to ever encounter a person like that in my own life??? Whatever the "discrepancy" between me and my own gf, she still is getting a graduate degree, and she still follows and responds to whatever wisdom I have to dispense about the sad state of popular culture or whatever:rolleyes: In percentage terms, I'm probably in the upper 5% and she's around the average. So, who am I to reject an average person for being average? (Not to mention that she's special in all the aspects that really matter to me). Conversely, with a PhD in math you are probably in the top 1% of the IQ distribution (impressive), and if that is so important to you, you should also accept that you eliminate 90-99% of the male population based on this criterion alone (depending on what your treshold of "significant discrepancy" is). Add to that the fact that men in the professions don't seem just as heavily hung up on smarts, compounded by their relatively higher marriage desirability (barring extreme geekness) you eliminate virtually all men from your dating pool.
Mr White Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 That is what I want as well. Sidenote: "love" is never enough in a relationship. My parents have completly different personalities and levels of intelligence. They were also madly in love when they met and married within 6 months. While they were happy the first 3 years of marriage or so, as time went on their differences became more and more obvious. My mum tells me every single day that if she could do it all over again, she would have never married my dad. I don't know what "differences" are you talking about, but maybe that's one reason why you're overthinking this beyond what's healthy.
Ariadne Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 Conversely, with a PhD in math you are probably in the top 1% of the IQ distribution (impressive), and if that is so important to you, you should also accept that you eliminate 90-99% of the male population based on this criterion alone (depending on what your treshold of "significant discrepancy" is). Add to that the fact that men in the professions don't seem just as heavily hung up on smarts, compounded by their relatively higher marriage desirability (barring extreme geekness) you eliminate virtually all men from your dating pool. Yeah, that is her problem. That's why she was in love with her boss.
brainygirl Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 Being 20lbs from my ideal weight is genuinly a big deal for me. Especially since I have been trying hard to lose it and have failed. I am not trying to bring others down, but perhaps I have been so self absorbed in my own problems that I didn't see how the things I write could be affecting others. As for why my co-worker married this woman, it's not that she is "fat and unintelligent" and thus unlovable. It's that there is such a HUGE discrepancy between them. He is cute, extremly fit and smart. Many studies have shown that people tend to gravitate to people of similar attractivness. Of course, small variation is fine, but in this case it makes me wonder. I am looking at it from a scientific prospective rather than an emotional one. I wonder what other qualities she has (that I am perhaps lacking) to over-compensate for this. Something like this is just unusual to see. From personal experience, even with extra 20lbs I can SEE that I am less attractive to men. When I am thinner, they just treat me differently. I am trying to imagine what would happen if I gainied 50lbs. Unfortunately, that's just how this world works. I'm going to share something here: I weight around 190 lbs. I am five two. By all measure I'm fat. I don't really lack in male attention. Why? Because I smile and make eye contact with almost everyone I meet. I am kind and pay attention to people around me weather i think their dumb as rocks and ugly as sin or I think they're walking sex appeal. Do I wish guys were less shallow? yes, but really, do I want to be with someone who is shallow? the answer is no. You cannot apply scientific data to relationships. You ccannot accumulate a list of what you have to have to attract the men you want. I'm not saying go find a dumb obese man to date, I am saying, give the next guy who writes you a note with "ppl" or "2morow" in it a chance.
SadandConfusedWA Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 That's fine, as long as you are intimately aware of the nature and the source of your preferences and have a clear distinction between the "must haves" and the "nice to have's". You want what you want, and that's fine. I just don't understand why get so worked up when other's preferences don't match yours. I also don't understand why do you need to operate from the baseline of such exageratted discrepancies - this almost never happens. Yeah, I probably wouldn't be able to date a woman from some undeveloped rice dump in Asia, who has no education and brain whatsoever (unless she's unbelievably hot ), but yeah, where am I going to ever encounter a person like that in my own life??? Whatever the "discrepancy" between me and my own gf, she still is getting a graduate degree, and she still follows and responds to whatever wisdom I have to dispense about the sad state of popular culture or whatever:rolleyes: In percentage terms, I'm probably in the upper 5% and she's around the average. So, who am I to reject an average person for being average? (Not to mention that she's special in all the aspects that really matter to me). Conversely, with a PhD in math you are probably in the top 1% of the IQ distribution (impressive), and if that is so important to you, you should also accept that you eliminate 90-99% of the male population based on this criterion alone (depending on what your treshold of "significant discrepancy" is). Add to that the fact that men in the professions don't seem just as heavily hung up on smarts, compounded by their relatively higher marriage desirability (barring extreme geekness) you eliminate virtually all men from your dating pool. I think that you have just pinpointed my problem. I am only interested in (seriously) dating very smart men, and there are not many of those around. Add to that the very smart men do not care so much for woman's intelligence and my dating pool is virtually non-existant. Add to that reasonably good looking and...you get the picture. Also smart men that are established in their careers and single are VERY sought after.
Els Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 Conversely, with a PhD in math you are probably in the top 1% of the IQ distribution (impressive), and if that is so important to you, you should also accept that you eliminate 90-99% of the male population based on this criterion alone (depending on what your treshold of "significant discrepancy" is). Add to that the fact that men in the professions don't seem just as heavily hung up on smarts, compounded by their relatively higher marriage desirability (barring extreme geekness) you eliminate virtually all men from your dating pool. This is a huge problem, yes, but what is an intelligent woman to do, then? Settle for a man who is less intelligent than her, and thus unattractive to her? What advice would you give a man who is physically not-so-attractive but has a stringent requirement for a woman's physical appearance? The most common advice I've seen here is, "Don't settle, you can make things work with confidence and charm." Are we then leading those dudes on? Actually, from what I've seen, at least half of all the men who are 'extremely intelligent by conventional measures' are pretty much geeky, each in their own way. I have always thanked the lucky stars for that, as I brilliant geeks even though they're definitely not most people's cup of tea.
SadandConfusedWA Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 I don't really lack in male attention. Why? Because I smile and make eye contact with almost everyone I meet. I am kind and pay attention to people around me weather i think their dumb as rocks and ugly as sin or I think they're walking sex appeal. Do I wish guys were less shallow? yes, but really, do I want to be with someone who is shallow? the answer is no. You cannot apply scientific data to relationships. You ccannot accumulate a list of what you have to have to attract the men you want. I'm not saying go find a dumb obese man to date, I am saying, give the next guy who writes you a note with "ppl" or "2morow" in it a chance. Oh, I beleive you and you are already doing better than me. The only attention I get is from sleazy married men that want one night stands and construction workers lol. There is probably something else, I will call it an X factor to attraction that is not quantifiable. Sadly, I just don't have it As for the weight, the main thing is whetever you are happy at your current weight or not. If you are, then it really doesn't matter. If you are not (and I feel disgusting with extra 20lbs) then that will come through in every interaction.
Ariadne Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 I weight around 190 lbs. I am five two. By all measure I'm fat. I don't really lack in male attention.. Because I smile and make eye contact. That is also very impressive.
TheBigQuestion Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 I think that you have just pinpointed my problem. I am only interested in (seriously) dating very smart men, and there are not many of those around. Add to that the very smart men do not care so much for woman's intelligence and my dating pool is virtually non-existant. Add to that reasonably good looking and...you get the picture. Also smart men that are established in their careers and single are VERY sought after. I'm curious as to what exactly constitutes a very smart man for you. Is it an IQ score or a Mensa membership card? What about a very successful business owner with only an undergraduate education? How about a guy who is highly educated and otherwise worldly but who can barely do Calculus? I think it's important for you to know exactly what type of intelligence you value, why you think this is important for the sake of a relationship, and so forth.
SadandConfusedWA Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 I'm curious as to what exactly constitutes a very smart man for you. Is it an IQ score or a Mensa membership card? What about a very successful business owner with only an undergraduate education? How about a guy who is highly educated and otherwise worldly but who can barely do Calculus? I think it's important for you to know exactly what type of intelligence you value, why you think this is important for the sake of a relationship, and so forth. This is very hard to put in the words. Basically, in conversation I have to get the feeling that the guy is smarter or as smart (I am kind of trying to avoid calling myself smart) as me. So it is quite subjective. If during early dating I feel that he is "less smart" than me, I lose all attraction to him. It would be a bonus if he is even a little curious about my research and asks the right questions. He doesn't really need to have an in depth understanidng of it at all, as long as he doesn't ask or say something that makes me see how he doesn't get it AT ALL (you would be suprised by how many times this has happened). I don't care so much for education, even though I have found that in general, more educated men can converse better on a wide variety of topics and are a better match for me (because we share the same view that education is important).
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