Els Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 Good point my azz . Let's recap the dynamics of the thread: 1) OP asks if lack of intelligence is a dealbreaker 2) the emerging consensus among the male posters is that intelligence is a great and a desireable trait, but an "insufficient" level of it is not a dealbreaker as long as other important relationship traits and qualities are present 3) females posters, instead of reflecting on this perspective for at least a few minutes, gang up and proceed to engage in long-winded and varied efforts to explain what exactly is wrong (obviously) with men who feel as outlined in 2). In recent history women have been getting away with this type of blackmail/manipulation for way too long. Beats me what the expected outcome of trying to invalidate legitimate men's feelings is. You know, you don't need to be super intelligent to see how transparent that is . The thing is, I have not known an intelligent woman for whom lack of intelligence was NOT a dealbreaker in her partner. The question was indeed, 'Is it a dealbreaker', as opposed to 'Is intelligence a great and desirable trait'. The latter would be pointless anyway because everyone would say 'Yes!', of course.
Author shadowplay Posted June 17, 2010 Author Posted June 17, 2010 and the woman is just a soft and sexy body to hold and have sex with, someone to provide care and support and love. That, to me, is not the true definition of 'partner', but meh, if it makes them happy... I think this hits the nail on the head for why SOME intelligent men go for less intelligent women. These are the guys who tend to look down on women and place them into a small box in how they fit into their lives. If they want intellectual stimulation, they turn to friends instead. Often these guys are also sexist in general. I think women are more likely to want a partner with whom they can be total equals and share everything, including intelligent discussions. For the record, this is only describing ONE TYPE of guy, not all men who go for less intelligent partners.
TheBigQuestion Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 I think we need to define what a lack of intelligence is for the purposes of this thread. Does it only mean that one partner is not as intelligent as the other? Because a man can shack up with a woman that is intelligent but not as intelligent as he is. That doesn't make her unintelligent.
Mr White Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 I think we need to define what a lack of intelligence is for the purposes of this thread. Does it only mean that one partner is not as intelligent as the other? Because a man can shack up with a woman that is intelligent but not as intelligent as he is. That doesn't make her unintelligent. Exactly! As long as a woman doesn't set the house on fire or make incredibly stupid life choices and decisions, and has at least one hobby/interest, there is really no such thing as "unintelligent". Related, just because she might not be at the same level of intelligence doesn't make her any less of a great person. I think our resident here ladies are mad because the "I'm intelligent dammit, so you should love me, dammit" thing doesn't work that way in the real life. There is just no correlation between intelligence - narrowly defined - and loveability.
Els Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 I think the OP has already stated her definition of 'intelligence' in the first few pages of the thread. I'm not sure what degree of difference she considers significant though. I think our resident here ladies are mad because the "I'm intelligent dammit, so you should love me, dammit" thing doesn't work that way in the real life. There is just no correlation between intelligence - narrowly defined - and loveability. I'm not sure where you got this assumption from. Is there any correlation between other non-personality traits that some people require in their partner (eg physical attractiveness, income level, weight/height, type of job, race, etc) and loveability, then?
Mr White Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 I think the OP has already stated her definition of 'intelligence' in the first few pages of the thread. I'm not sure what degree of difference she considers significant though. I'm not sure where you got this assumption from. Is there any correlation between other non-personality traits that some people require in their partner (eg physical attractiveness, income level, weight/height, type of job, race, etc) and loveability, then? The operative word here being "require"... --> what does that have to do with love? People are not shoes or cars to evaluate and "pick" based on checklists, so "loveability" really has to do with the person as a whole rather than their income level or height. How depressing, and what a basis to form a relationship on . I'm not saying they are completely irrelevant, but in my book they are a problem only if they would logistically get in the way of having a sensible life: i.e. too dumb to hold a job, too poor to survive without welfare etc. But beyond such extremes, going off of the checklist is quite a poor strategy; even if the checklist is satisfied, it still will beg the question of how authentic the feeling of love is. "I love you because you are tall enough, smart enough, and earn enough money". No, thanks
Els Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 The operative word here being "require"... --> what does that have to do with love? People are not shoes or cars to evaluate and "pick" based on checklists, so "loveability" really has to do with the person as a whole rather than their income level or height. How depressing, and what a basis to form a relationship on . I'm not saying they are completely irrelevant, but in my book they are a problem only if they would logistically get in the way of having a sensible life: i.e. too dumb to hold a job, too poor to survive without welfare etc. But beyond such extremes, going off of the checklist is quite a poor strategy; even if the checklist is satisfied, it still will beg the question of how authentic the feeling of love is. "I love you because you are tall enough, smart enough, and earn enough money". No, thanks Have you no 'requirements' for a woman's appearance then? An obese woman with scarring all over her body with a prior bilateral mastectomy and significant hair loss would not logistically get in the way of you having a sensible life. Is there a possibility of you falling in love with her?
Author shadowplay Posted June 17, 2010 Author Posted June 17, 2010 The operative word here being "require"... --> what does that have to do with love? People are not shoes or cars to evaluate and "pick" based on checklists, so "loveability" really has to do with the person as a whole rather than their income level or height. How depressing, and what a basis to form a relationship on . I'm not saying they are completely irrelevant, but in my book they are a problem only if they would logistically get in the way of having a sensible life: i.e. too dumb to hold a job, too poor to survive without welfare etc. But beyond such extremes, going off of the checklist is quite a poor strategy; even if the checklist is satisfied, it still will beg the question of how authentic the feeling of love is. "I love you because you are tall enough, smart enough, and earn enough money". No, thanks You're lumping intelligence in with two rather superficial requirements. I'd put intelligence for me, and probably many other women, on par with a trait like kindness. Both are deal breakers and I'd hardly consider them superficial criteria. Would you ever forgo kindness in a partner under any circumstances? Probably not. I feel the same way about intelligence. I want to be with somebody I can talk to about interesting things, who stimulates me on an intellectual (in addition to emotional) level. For me that really strengthens the connection I have with somebody.
LadyinRed80 Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 well speaking as a woman with small brain all i can say is that we are bread to be Hot, not smart. hey it rhymed! yay! hehehehehe
Els Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 Dear, I think you intended to post with your Broken Record handle AFTER your LadyinRed handle...
JohnnyDrama Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 I guess it depends on what you consider intelligence to be. For instance the girl I have just seen a few times over the past week, she's proficient in the piano, she's moving up the ladder of a clothing store, she has street smarts. In this case this seems good enough for me.
SadandConfusedWA Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 What I have been puzzled by lately is that I have this co-worker of mine who is a genious mathematician. He is also interesting and able to converse and debate on a wide variety of topics. And then I met his wife. I have talked to her at length about 4 times now. I know you might say that this is not enough to really asses intelligence but consider this: the woman talks A LOT. As in I have never heard anybody talk so much. She was introduced to me and she started going off about how she went to the grocery store that day and procedeed to tell me exactly what she bought in minute detail as in "I picked 2 bananas, then I saw that one is kind of soft and brown which made me leave it but I thought heck, might as well get it and use it today before it really goes off, then I picked up a cucumber...". That followed by her describing a storyline in some random soap, which followed by her describing how she broke a bed once when she had sex with an ex bf (this in front of her H too) and she has just met me. Each time we talked it was like this. Not only do I feel this woman is not intelligent but I kind of question her sanity too. And she is obese so I can't even say that he was blinded by her beauty. I just keep thinking WTF? How did this this man go on a date with her and then later decide "Yep, she is the one!"? It is also interesting that he LOVES to make fun of people in a professional setting based on how intelligent they are. He would see an average presentation for example and then later come to discuss with me and make fun of the presenter. And then he goes home to the W who is He also recently purchased a house. One of the worst possible decisions he could make based on the current property market. In fact, if he bought a house at random, he would do better. When I questioned him on this, it was obvious that his W made that decision. So not only did he marry someone who is way below him in both intellect and looks, but he is letting her make major life decisions too. It just makes baby jesus cry
carhill Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 As this thread indicates, the synergy of intelligence and romance is a very individual thing. I look around at the friends who love me and I them and gain insight from the synergy of those relationships wrt intelligence, emotional support and the impetuses to introspection and growth. It makes life an adventure to live and a force to marvel at. It's been a great day.
SadandConfusedWA Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 Mr. white, the question was never if intelligence is sufficient. It was if lack of intelligence is a deal breaker to men. And it seems like tha answer is NO I asked my brother who is reasonably smart if he liked intelligent girls, he said: "Sure, as long as she is less intelligent than me!".
SadandConfusedWA Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 As this thread indicates, the synergy of intelligence and romance is a very individual thing. I look around at the friends who love me and I them and gain insight from the synergy of those relationships wrt intelligence, emotional support and the impetuses to introspection and growth. It makes life an adventure to live and a force to marvel at. It's been a great day. Not for me this thread is actually really depressing.
Ariadne Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 Mr. white, the question was never if intelligence is sufficient. It was if lack of intelligence is a deal breaker to men. And it seems like tha answer is NO I asked my brother who is reasonably smart if he liked intelligent girls, he said: "Sure, as long as she is less intelligent than me!". It makes sense because women like men that are smarter. Otherwise nobody would get married.
Els Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 SAC, to be fair to the other men, I believe there's a huge difference between lack of intelligence not being a dealbreaker, and higher intelligence than self being a dealbreaker (as in the case of your brother).
TheBigQuestion Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 SAC, to be fair to the other men, I believe there's a huge difference between lack of intelligence not being a dealbreaker, and higher intelligence than self being a dealbreaker (as in the case of your brother). I agree. I'm pretty intelligent (or so I believe. I've honestly never taken an IQ test but I've spent most of my life being considerably book smart), but I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be dating someone who is massively more intelligent than me. It's not really a matter of envy (although I admit that I'm human and this could play a minor role) , it's just that massively intelligent people tend to be pretty out there in ways that I probably wouldn't dig too much. And like I said previously in this thread, if they're young, they tend to be very arrogant about their intelligence as well.
Mr White Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 Mr. white, the question was never if intelligence is sufficient. It was if lack of intelligence is a deal breaker to men. And it seems like tha answer is NO I asked my brother who is reasonably smart if he liked intelligent girls, he said: "Sure, as long as she is less intelligent than me!". Yeah, I don't understand this part. I would not care, and I would not base my choice on that (or consider it a dealbreaker either way). In fact, I just realized that unless we're talking about very narrow comparisons of very narrow intellectual abilities (e.g. the stupid MENSA IQ tests, I used to be a member, thank you very much), it is practically impossible to answer the question if somebody is more "intelligent" than somebody else. Case in point: my ex was/is probably one of the smartest women alive, almost done with her PhD in Aerospace Engineering (that's "rocket science" y'all), in one of the world's best engineering schools. She also has a BS in the same discipline from CalTech (probably THE best and the toughest engineering school on the planet), a near-perfect GRE score, and overall mad math, programming, and engineering skills. While your truly has a sad social sciences PHD, a sad GRE score, and very limited math ability to speak of. Yet I NEVER felt "wow, she's so much more intelligent than me", though objectively this was true, wrt to those specific areas. I was perfectly confident and happy in my lame social science world, and general decent culture and basic knowledge of variety of topics, literature, etc. The point being that even when we're talking about measurable differences in IQ, it is still impossible to answer the question who's "more intelligent" in a subjectively meaningful way, at least for me. Similarly, I'm way ahead of the curve relative to my current GF. While her literacy levels and knowledge of the world and even logic abilities are way, way, WAY beneath mine, I still can't bring myself to say "she's less intelligent than me". Sure, she can't write to save her life, but she's plenty pleasant in conversation, and nothing beats eating ice cream on the couch with her. In short, I don't see any difference wrt to the role of intelligence for the quality of the relationship between the two relationships (i guess except for the fact that I could ask my ex to write clever Matlab programs for me that used to make my life and research easier. )
Els Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 In short, I don't see any difference wrt to the role of intelligence for the quality of the relationship between the two relationships (i guess except for the fact that I could ask my ex to write clever Matlab programs for me that used to make my life and research easier. ) I like how you keep repeating this while ignoring the post(s) I made which addressed precisely this point.
Mr White Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 I like how you keep repeating this while ignoring the post(s) I made which addressed precisely this point. Well, she didn't dump me because i wasn't "smart enough" if that is what you're implying . Indeed, she was pathologically insecure in the relationship and was perpetually in fear that women crawl all over me and that I have either cheated or it was a matter of time till I cheat, and of course neither was true. She was also hot .
Ross PK Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 No, absolutley not. As I can still enjoy conversations with people who aren't that intelligent.
carhill Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 Not for me this thread is actually really depressing. IMO, this is where MC really pays off. It's not what happens to us, it's how we *react* to it with intelligence and positive emotions. We *choose* our path. Many paths to choose from. Love Perth, btw. Burswood cracked me up - a blow-up concert hall
SadandConfusedWA Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 Similarly, I'm way ahead of the curve relative to my current GF. While her literacy levels and knowledge of the world and even logic abilities are way, way, WAY beneath mine, I still can't bring myself to say "she's less intelligent than me". Sure, she can't write to save her life, but she's plenty pleasant in conversation, and nothing beats eating ice cream on the couch with her. In short, I don't see any difference wrt to the role of intelligence for the quality of the relationship between the two relationships (i guess except for the fact that I could ask my ex to write clever Matlab programs for me that used to make my life and research easier. ) Umm yes, she IS significantly less intelligent than you from what you describe. Sure, sitting on the couch eating ice cream is cool but don't you just get BORED? Or do you get your fill of intellectual stimulation at work? It is a lot more than "writing matlab programs", just the quality of everyday conversation - how is that not a problem for you? Perhaps you enjoy that you dominate in this area even on a subconcious level. Or you have been badly burned by your ex and now prefer less intelligent women.
Ariadne Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 I NEVER felt "wow, she's so much more intelligent than me", though objectively this was true Maybe you didn't but she probably did. People tend to believe they are smart no matter what.
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