men: is lack of intelligence a deal breaker for you?

[shadowplay]

Just curious, because of something my ex said a few weeks after we broke up. He revealed to me that he feels intelligence in an SO is nice, but it's not a deal breaker if she's not intelligent. This took me by surprise, and I'm wondering how many other men feel this way. Since intelligence is subjective, I'm referring to whatever the individual judging considers intelligent in a general sense. In other words would you be in a serious relationship with a woman you didn't consider intelligent?

 

For me lack of intelligence is a huge deal breaker, but perhaps women place more emphasis on this trait in their mates than men do.

 

All civil responses/points of view are welcome. I won't bite your head off for your preferences.

Edited June 16, 2010 by shadowplay

[skydiveaddict]

In other words would you be in a serious relationship with a woman you didn't consider intelligent?

 

For me lack of intelligence is a huge deal breaker, but perhaps women place more emphasis on this trait in their mates than men do.

 

 

That would not be a dealbreaker for me

[SadandConfusedWA]

For me lack of intelligence is a huge deal breaker, but perhaps women place more emphasis on this trait in their mates than men do.

 

All civil responses/points of view are welcome. I won't bite your head off for your preferences.

 

The bolded is so true. I have also asked a number of intelligent men if lack of intelligence in a female is a deal-breaker and they ALL said no

[MorningCoffee]

Lack of intelligence is an automatic deal-breaker for me. I do make allowances for poor spelling, however.

[Justanotherdude]

Of course there are varying degrees of intelligence but in my opinion lack of intelligence is a dealbreaker for me. I love smart women. Not saying it has to be in math or something technical either. Just have your **** together, please.

 

At 25, it is a dealbreaker. When I was younger [not saying i'm old ] I could care less.

 

I think people expose some of their intelligence to people and others keep it hidden so it's hard to say.

 

Case in point: Gorgeous girl in my class, acts like Lady GaGa. Types in all caps and rants about guys on facebook. Accounting was way too hard for her, LoL!!! Can I see ur notes PLZ!

 

Could never take her seriously and my friends would ask me what I was doing with this girl.

Edited June 16, 2010 by Justanotherdude

[TheBigQuestion]

I'm a little bit torn on this. I would say that raw intelligence, like IQ, scoring high on standardized tests, being high-aptitude, and so forth, are generally of little consequence to me, at least when considering these things in a direct manner only. Indirectly, there's obviously some correlation between intelligence and being able to hold a conversation, being well versed in current events, having good common sense and every day problem solving skills, and being an articulate and eloquent communicator.

 

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I value someone who is worldly and who has a thirst for knowledge, because that's what I strive towards myself. This can be, but is certainly not always, correlated with raw intelligence. One girl I recently fooled around with is currently attending the college I went to, and as far as I know is a wizard at mathematics and statistics, and is extremely intelligent on the whole. However, as far as personality, knowledge, and common sense goes, I have never met anyone more vapid and empty.

 

In conclusion, a woman doesn't need to be able to explain the inner workings of Godel's incompleteness theorems to me. But if she can talk about something beyond pop culture, if she has genuine ambitions and is interesting, and can communicate these facts about herself effectively, I'm bound to be extremely interested. I find these things more important than intelligence. Hope that all makes sense.

[sigurpol]

Yes and no.

 

As far as education goes, that's not an issue with me. If you have a masters, doctorate, whatever, very cool for you. If you don't, that's okay. Although sometimes I'm curious as to why... not to judge, but I feel like some "intelligence" lies in that vein. I totally understand not everyone can afford or have time for school.

 

Spelling and grammar.. sometimes. I don't care for texts that say something like, "u cumin out 2nite?". Innocent misspellings are fine, I'm not going to grade you. But there's a line. I kinda dated a girl a few months back who didn't grasp the concept of "their/there/they're". It sorta bugged me, but it wasn't a deal breaker. I'd like to spend more time talking, anyway.

 

However! As far as like.. wit, or being clever goes... that can be really important to me. I enjoy creating smart/witty/observational humor (seeing as that I do stand up on open mic nights... name dropping! haha), and I rely on a lot of it. So if things are shooting over our heads... that becomes really hard for me.

 

Most recently with some friends who set me up with another friend... I made a crack about a mutual friend of ours (in good taste) and she gave me this quizzical look. And I replied, "I'm kidding, haha".

 

"Oh.. I see."

 

Or, maybe I'm just not funny at all.

[Justanotherdude]

Yes and no.

 

As far as education goes, that's not an issue with me. If you have a masters, doctorate, whatever, very cool for you. If you don't, that's okay. Although sometimes I'm curious as to why... not to judge, but I feel like some "intelligence" lies in that vein. I totally understand not everyone can afford or have time for school.

 

Spelling and grammar.. sometimes. I don't care for texts that say something like, "u cumin out 2nite?". Innocent misspellings are fine, I'm not going to grade you. But there's a line. I kinda dated a girl a few months back who didn't grasp the concept of "their/there/they're". It sorta bugged me, but it wasn't a deal breaker. I'd like to spend more time talking, anyway.

 

However! As far as like.. wit, or being clever goes... that can be really important to me. I enjoy creating smart/witty/observational humor (seeing as that I do stand up on open mic nights... name dropping! haha), and I rely on a lot of it. So if things are shooting over our heads... that becomes really hard for me.

 

Most recently with some friends who set me up with another friend... I made a crack about a mutual friend of ours (in good taste) and she gave me this quizzical look. And I replied, "I'm kidding, haha".

 

"Oh.. I see."

 

Or, maybe I'm just not funny at all.

 

 

See, I'm with you. I appreciate a girl with a sense of humor more than anything... so in that sense, highly intelligent but a boring stick in the mud, glass is half full kind of girl..... you're out!!

[TheBigQuestion]

Although I certainly wouldn't rule someone out just because of their intelligence, or lack thereof, I have found that, at least among females in their late teens to mid 20s, the ones who possess high raw intelligence tend to be more snobby and arrogant than they have any business acting.

 

A good example is a girl that I briefly dated about two years ago. She was basically a genius. She majored in Chemistry and had nearly perfect grades. She received an A in organic chemistry, universally known as one of the most unforgiving classes an undergraduate can take in any discipline. Add to that the fact that the university I attended has one of the most notoriously unforgiving undergraduate Chemistry departments, and you see the magnitude that I'm talking about here. Anyways, at one point she was talking to me about how she was considering going to medical school. I told her that I had a few acquaintances who were currently attending medical school. One of them happened to be attending med school in the Caribbean. Upon hearing this, she explained at moderate length that if an American has to go to the Caribbean to attend med school, he/she probably didn't have good MCAT scores, or his grades weren't good enough, and so forth.

 

Regardless of whether or not any of this is factual (and I concede that it generally is), the fact that she had to basically put one of my friends down for trying to become a physician at a less prestigious institution just because he had a few academic shortcomings just came across as both incredibly arrogant and insecure to me. She went on to explain that she did a lot of drugs in high school because she "could" and was "bored because it was too easy" and this also betrayed more of this arrogance. This is a girl who dated an on again off again heroin addict for 4 years and was by all accounts a deviant for much of her life. Throw in her tacky/trashy fashion sense and sleep-inducing personality and it's no wonder we never got serious.

 

Thus, this is what I mean when I say that she had no business being arrogant. She was extremely intelligent but was a complete basket case in most other respects. The moral of the story is, unless one has a BALANCE of reasonable qualities, most level-headed men should not give them the time of day.

[sb129]

Ah pish posh I got an A in organic chemistry too, but I didn't get into med school. She sounds like she is on the road to self destruct, not smart enough to see that though is she?

.

Since I had a baby I have been losing brain cells left right and centre. I used to be well read and up to date with current affairs, and now I do well to read two pages of a trashy novel before falling asleep.

 

I agree with you- one can be exceptionally academically intelligent but a total moron when it comes to social intelligence and common sense- and thats really unattractive IMO. Too many eggs in one basket makes Jack a dull date.

[Citizen Erased]

I find stupidity so entirely irritating that I have to question what drives people to consistently choose to go after people with a lack of intelligence. A guy friend of mine does and when I asked why, he told me it was because he could dominate the relationship easily. Dumb people apparently can't argue. He had fun finding out that instead they may or may not key his car and steal his tv.

 

I was with someone for almost 5 years that wasn't what anyone could describe as intelligent. He does however have a work ethic like no nobody I have met before, he took very good care of me when I was really ill and I have him to thank for a lot of things. But the last couple of years, I was so utterly bored all he did when he spoke was irritate me. Opposites can attract but damn can they bore each other. I promised myself I'd never be with someone like that again. It's unfair to me and also to someone that apart from that is a great person.

 

I've had guys tell me intelligence is an important factor to them but have consistently dated or chased the opposite.

[SadandConfusedWA]

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I value someone who is worldly and who has a thirst for knowledge, because that's what I strive towards myself. This can be, but is certainly not always, correlated with raw intelligence. One girl I recently fooled around with is currently attending the college I went to, and as far as I know is a wizard at mathematics and statistics, and is extremely intelligent on the whole. However, as far as personality, knowledge, and common sense goes, I have never met anyone more vapid and empty.

 

 

In what way? Can you please expand on this? Maybe I am like that too but am not aware of it

[Bangle]

I like intelligence in a woman, a woman with intelligence with a strong sense humility is better than an intelligent woman.

[Pyro]

Lack of intelligence is a turn-off to me. I will slowly lose interest in that person because of it.

 

I'm trying to state what intelligence is defined as to me. I know that I don't base it on level of education because even a non college grad can be intelligent.

 

If we end up getting into an argument and she resorts to name calling, or attempting to degrade me, then I will be turned off.

 

I guess in one way I consider a lack of intelligence to be someone who can't handle their emotions effectively.

 

Another being someone who has no common sense whatsoever.

 

She must be able to grasp the concept of thinking before she speaks.

 

If we disagree then I would want her to not give in to all my demands and insist on compromise. A pushover to me lacks intelligence.

 

I would want her to have some minimal knowledge of the current world.....excluding what is going on in Hollywood.

[Teflon]

This might be harsh but I don't make friends with people who ain't intelligent, I don't usually bother to converse with people who ain't intelligent and I sure as hell would not get involved with a person who isn't intelligent to at least a certain degree.

 

But here is the crunch - how do you define intelligence? That's a big one huh, no-one has ever really been able to define it properly. I know a lot of guys around here who have girlfriends whom are just, well, shallow I think is the polite way to put it. Sure, hey, if that's what works for you. But when I go home, I am thankful that I have a girlfriend who can grasp the advanced concepts of English grammar when I tell her exactly what I tried to teach at class today.

 

That was a one-shot example and there are varied kinds of intelligence. This would end up being a wall of text of cosmic proportions if I tried to list all so yeah, in short, imo it matters a lot.

[shadowplay]

Although I certainly wouldn't rule someone out just because of their intelligence, or lack thereof, I have found that, at least among females in their late teens to mid 20s, the ones who possess high raw intelligence tend to be more snobby and arrogant than they have any business acting.

 

A good example is a girl that I briefly dated about two years ago. She was basically a genius. She majored in Chemistry and had nearly perfect grades. She received an A in organic chemistry, universally known as one of the most unforgiving classes an undergraduate can take in any discipline. Add to that the fact that the university I attended has one of the most notoriously unforgiving undergraduate Chemistry departments, and you see the magnitude that I'm talking about here. Anyways, at one point she was talking to me about how she was considering going to medical school. I told her that I had a few acquaintances who were currently attending medical school. One of them happened to be attending med school in the Caribbean. Upon hearing this, she explained at moderate length that if an American has to go to the Caribbean to attend med school, he/she probably didn't have good MCAT scores, or his grades weren't good enough, and so forth.

 

Regardless of whether or not any of this is factual (and I concede that it generally is), the fact that she had to basically put one of my friends down for trying to become a physician at a less prestigious institution just because he had a few academic shortcomings just came across as both incredibly arrogant and insecure to me. She went on to explain that she did a lot of drugs in high school because she "could" and was "bored because it was too easy" and this also betrayed more of this arrogance. This is a girl who dated an on again off again heroin addict for 4 years and was by all accounts a deviant for much of her life. Throw in her tacky/trashy fashion sense and sleep-inducing personality and it's no wonder we never got serious.

 

Thus, this is what I mean when I say that she had no business being arrogant. She was extremely intelligent but was a complete basket case in most other respects. The moral of the story is, unless one has a BALANCE of reasonable qualities, most level-headed men should not give them the time of day.

 

Lol. You’re describing other aspects of her personality that don’t have to do with her intelligence, like her trashiness, arrogance and poor taste in men. Of course intelligence isn’t enough and can’t compensate for other negative traits. Also, people who are intelligent may be more arrogant on average, but not all of them are.

 

My question is about whether intelligence is a necessary trait for you, not whether it’s a sufficient one.

 

As a side note, I think it's silly to describe someone as a "genius" simply because they did well in a hard chemistry department. I'm sure she was very smart, but to call her a "genius" for that reason alone is a bit ridiculous.

[SadandConfusedWA]

Lol. You’re describing other aspects of her personality that don’t have to do with her intelligence, like her trashiness, arrogance and poor taste in men. Of course intelligence isn’t enough and can’t compensate for other negative traits. Also, people who are intelligent may be more arrogant on average, but not all of them are.

 

My question is about whether intelligence is a necessary trait for you, not whether it’s a sufficient one.

 

As a side note, I think it's silly to describe someone as a "genius" simply because they did well in a hard chemistry department. I'm sure she was very smart, but to call her a "genius" for that reason alone is a bit ridiculous.

 

I agree with this. His whole post sounds like he is trying hard to justify with (il)logical facts why it doesn't matter to him if a girl is intelligent.

[shadowplay]

Maybe I should have been more specific in my opening post, because people seem to be hung up on the difference between book smarts and raw intelligence. This distinction is beside the point in terms of what I was getting at.

 

It's really hard to define, but I was talking about something more general. By intelligent I mean somebody who makes interesting conversation, thinks logically, and has a strong interest in knowledge for its own sake. They don't need a traditional education, but they should like to read (not exclusively trashy books/magazines). They also should be able to think rationally and not get easily lost if they enter a discussion that requires some brain power but not necessarily background knowledge. I'm not talking about arcane subjects.

 

I guess for me one of the reasons intelligence is such a deal breaker is because I just get bored with somebody who lacks it. The conversation is boring. And again, I rarely like to talk about arcane stuff. Somebody could show their intelligence simply with their wit or with their interesting observations about mundane things. But lively, interesting conversations here and there are important to me.

 

Also, as somebody else mentioned people who aren't intelligent are more likely to make stupid choices in a relationship that will screw you over. The last thing I want is to have an argument with somebody who has poor judgment and is operating on irrational emotions...or doesn't have the mental capacity to understand your reasoning.

[TaraMaiden]

When my partner first met me 6 years ago, we would talk about all manner of things. We were in the company of his father and step-mother, and gatherings were all social.

One day, going back to his Camper - I ran a camping site in Northern France - he turned and gesturing with his finger upwards, he declared - "You're very Interesting!"

His father laughed, as he retreated towards his camper, and chuckled, "Aye aye, you've got him now! he hates being bored by people and doesn't suffer fools gladly! If he says you're interesting take it as read - he likes you! he's only ever said that about one other person in his life so far, and he's died now!"

 

6 years on, we still stimulate each other mentally, and we still find one another interesting.

 

I would venture to say that being interesting to one another is what ultimately fuelled my parents' marriage. 57 years this year......

 

I think it takes a specific type of intelligence to be interesting, and that intelligence has a willingness to adapt, grow, learn and absorb new experiences all the time.

[jthorne]

To add to Tara's post, I think common sense is required as well. For me, is THE dealbreaker in regards to intelligence. I've known interesting, intelligent people who didn't have the common sense to pour piss out of a boot. While the conversations were certainly interesting, they were definitely not relationship material for me.

[VertexSquared]

Yep, I require it -- intelligence, good spelling, well-spoken, sense of humor, etc. If any of those things are missing, I lose interest.

[Mr White]

Just curious, because of something my ex said a few weeks after we broke up. He revealed to me that he feels intelligence in an SO is nice, but it's not a deal breaker if she's not intelligent. This took me by surprise, and I'm wondering how many other men feel this way. Since intelligence is subjective, I'm referring to whatever the individual judging considers intelligent in a general sense. In other words would you be in a serious relationship with a woman you didn't consider intelligent?

 

For me lack of intelligence is a huge deal breaker, but perhaps women place more emphasis on this trait in their mates than men do.

 

All civil responses/points of view are welcome. I won't bite your head off for your preferences.

 

 

I feel the same way like that guy. Intelligence is nice but it is lower on the list relative to much more important qualities such as kindness, thoughtfulness, and general willingness and ability to be a sweet and caring person. You don't have to be academically intelligent in order to be very pleasant to be around and converse with. Moreover, very few people are completely unintelligent. My gf has a very spotty academic background, but she's still plenty thoughtful to make conversations on any topic pleasant.

 

Here's the kicker: i don't notice a world of difference between my interactions with her and with my ex who was (is) one of the most intelligent women alive (with an engineering PhD to back it up). Ultimately, emotional and character issues trumped any benefits her intelligence may have had.

[SadandConfusedWA]

I feel the same way like that guy. Intelligence is nice but it is lower on the list relative to much more important qualities such as kindness, thoughtfulness, and general willingness and ability to be a sweet and caring person. You don't have to be academically intelligent in order to be very pleasant to be around and converse with. Moreover, very few people are completely unintelligent. My gf has a very spotty academic background, but she's still plenty thoughtful to make conversations on any topic pleasant.

 

Here's the kicker: i don't notice a world of difference between my interactions with her and with my ex who was (is) one of the most intelligent women alive (with an engineering PhD to back it up). Ultimately, emotional and character issues trumped any benefits her intelligence may have had.

 

I think "pleasant to be around" on long term basis is the key. It trumps intelligence and even looks. Most of my inability to form LTRs stems from the fact that I am often dark, derpessive and pessimistic. Not many people enjoy that unless they are themselves that way.

[shadowplay]

these are my personal observations about men for whom lack of intelligence isn't a deal breaker. I'm not saying by any means they cover every guy who doesn't prioritize intelligence in a partner, just a good number.

 

Usually fall into one or more of these categories:

 

1) Comes from culture/upbringing in which women aren't typically valued for their intelligence. This may be either a culture in which women are encouraged to have more traditional, domestic roles or a working class culture in which education isn't as highly valued in either gender.

2) Values looks to such an extent that he's willing to forgo intelligence in a partner.

3) Of average intelligence himself, so he has no need to date an above average woman. You can't fault somebody for this.

4) Likes to have more power in the relationship, which sometimes goes along with #1. Power could mean he makes more of the decisions, and/or that the woman looks up to him because of his intelligence.

 

I'd say my ex falls into a combination of categories 1 and somewhat 3.

Edited June 16, 2010 by shadowplay

[Mr White]

these are my personal observations about men for whom lack of intelligence isn't a deal breaker. I'm not saying by any means they cover every guy who doesn't prioritize intelligence in a partner, just a good number.

 

Usually fall into one or more of these categories:

 

1) Comes from culture/upbringing in which women aren't typically valued for their intelligence. This may be either a culture in which women are encouraged to have more traditional, domestic roles or a working class culture in which education isn't as highly valued in either gender.

2) Values looks to such an extent that he's willing to forgo intelligence in a partner.

3) Of average intelligence himself, so he has no need to date an above average woman. You can't fault somebody for this.

4) Likes to have more power in the relationship, which sometimes goes along with #1. Power could mean he makes more of the decisions, and/or that the woman looks up to him because of his intelligence.

 

I'd say my ex falls into a combination of categories 1 and somewhat 3.

 

How did I not see this coming

 

1) I come from former eastern Europe where gender equality has been a state ideology and has been implemented for MUCH longer in the US

2) I value looks only up to a point where a certain attraction threshold is achieved, beyond that I don't care. My gf has a tummy and I like it.

3) Well, I have a doctorate and close to 20 peer reviewed publications. While the degree does not automatically confer intelligence, being able to get past the smart people in the field is.

4) The only "power" in a relationship that matters to me is the power to call out bad or disrespectful behavior.

 

So, what's your excuse?