White Flower Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 Could NOT agree more, jwi. Were there women among that circle of friends? Did they carry condoms? Just asking...... I have a few single girl friends who carry condoms all the time. It's just the trend now.
White Flower Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 Thanks, Hazy...this is exactly my point. It is talked of, alluded to, discussed and planned, or hoped for on both their parts. So why then, do so many of hear the line, "we never meant to hurt you. Things got out of hand....or, It just happened. This seems delusional or a defense machanism to me. Because so much effort, disclosed or undisclosed to each other, takes place WAY before the relationship turns physical, IMO. This is a very good point. It didn't 'just happen'. It took time, many talks on the phone and in person, coffee dates, and other visits. The thing they didn't mean to 'happen' was falling in love. Once in love, the sex was gonna happen. They 'meant' for that to happen and nothing was going to hold them back. I'm not sure if it's delusion or defense mech or both. I know I fought it, the falling in love, in my head over and over. The first time he French kissed me I thought he was the most outrageous, insidious man I ever encountered! 10 minutes later I wanted more and thank God he already left. I couldn't understand my own feelings and wondered if he was just as confused as I was. Probably not, as he was serial and had gone down this road before, but I know I was very confused at all these conflicting feelings. Maybe for me it was more delusional, if we must stick within the confines of these choices. Flitting love, confused emotions, rationalizing, then saying f*** the rationalizing I want this, maybe that falls under the category of being delusional. Or just happy, I don't know. But when one makes the choice to go back to the M I would say that AP is using defense mechs. He may have been delusional in the A, and just defensive now. In the end, Spark, he's probably thinking you should just be happy he came back. I'll bet sometimes he wonders why he chose you for being so damn smart and inquistive. But then again, that may very well be the reason he came back!
MizFit Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 Responsible OPs or not, a BS would be foolish to not check up behind their own health. There are many STDs that condoms can not block. Its not a stereotype, its common sense. A woman's body is very sensitive to receiving new biological matter from another woman via her spouse. She may not get an STD in the true sense, but she can very likely get exposed to something that may cause her major discomfort (yeast infections/bacterial infections due to different flora) or increase her likelihood of getting cervical cancer. This is nothing to play with. Sorry so many OW get their panties in a bunch thinking someone is trying to say they are promiscuous. Its just good sense to get checked out if you know your spouse was having sex with someone else, protected or not. I get my panties in a bunch because I know very few women who aren't tested as a matter of health...married, single, promiscuous, whatever. What gets me is the way some of the threads and posts are so directly stated to allude the OW is nothing but a sack of irresponsibility and somehow carrying around STDs to lay out on unsuspecting men and their Ws. I know everyone will counter this with 'you're taking it personally' and 'it's not how it was intended', but that is the way the posts are written in many cases and it is a stereotype. I will gladly say that is my opinion, but to me it's glaringly obvious...
White Flower Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 I get my panties in a bunch because I know very few women who aren't tested as a matter of health...married, single, promiscuous, whatever. What gets me is the way some of the threads and posts are so directly stated to allude the OW is nothing but a sack of irresponsibility and somehow carrying around STDs to lay out on unsuspecting men and their Ws. I know everyone will counter this with 'you're taking it personally' and 'it's not how it was intended', but that is the way the posts are written in many cases and it is a stereotype. I will gladly say that is my opinion, but to me it's glaringly obvious... When I found out MM was serial I went straight to my doctor for an STD test. If I came out positive I was going to knock on every door I found in his email inbox and also his W's. I felt that was my responsibility. Luckily, I came out clean and never had to do that. I don't know how he got so lucky never catching anything in all those years of cheating. He's invincible.
WalkInThePark Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 When I found out MM was serial I went straight to my doctor for an STD test. If I came out positive I was going to knock on every door I found in his email inbox and also his W's. I felt that was my responsibility. Luckily, I came out clean and never had to do that. I don't know how he got so lucky never catching anything in all those years of cheating. He's invincible. Your MM is straight so only has sex with women and he does not do drugs. That makes his chances to catch an STD small. Despite what some BS like to pretend, most OW are not promiscuous or irresponsible. If an OW is a bit intelligent, she makes sure she is clean by not jumping in bed with no matter who and practising safe sex. If your MM has been a bit selective in who he sleeps with, his chances of having caught an STD are small. This said, it remains irresponsible behaviour not to use a condom if you have several sexual partners.
jennie-jennie Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 This is a very good point. It didn't 'just happen'. It took time, many talks on the phone and in person, coffee dates, and other visits. The thing they didn't mean to 'happen' was falling in love. Once in love, the sex was gonna happen. They 'meant' for that to happen and nothing was going to hold them back. This is so good. This is the essence of it all.
Author Spark1111 Posted June 18, 2010 Author Posted June 18, 2010 My WW said she met OM a few times as friends. She said she had no interest, nor knew where it was going. So, they had sex in the park after the 3rd meeting.....and he used a condom. My question to her was.......DIDN'T you feel it wasnt an accident on his side? When you saw a 53 year old married man, break out a condom in his car.....DIDNT YOU THINK WTF....HE WANTED SEX, NOT FRIENDSHIP!!! HAHAHAHAHA! This is my point exactly. There has to be an unspoken expectation of where the evening is going..... Because if someone, anyone whips out a condom, and you are not appalled at the overt suggestion of one, you are so ready to cross that line. But hey, if it protects your psyche in the aftermath to think so, either you were not wanting to think, or your thinking is very, very delusional. Frightening, no? The self-deceptions necessary to give yourself permission to cross that line.
White Flower Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 Your MM is straight so only has sex with women and he does not do drugs. That makes his chances to catch an STD small. Despite what some BS like to pretend, most OW are not promiscuous or irresponsible. If an OW is a bit intelligent, she makes sure she is clean by not jumping in bed with no matter who and practising safe sex. If your MM has been a bit selective in who he sleeps with, his chances of having caught an STD are small. This said, it remains irresponsible behaviour not to use a condom if you have several sexual partners. Right on all counts. He actually told me that after talking to them for a while, getting to know their character plus the fact that they were M (including me in the beginning) he pretty much felt it was safe. Still, I think he has a sixth sense. But yeah, he was pretty selective. There are only two women that I think could have let him down on that but luckily they were clean and so was he. I was very selective too. I had my chance with many other MM and SG, being hit on many times during my M. Never considered it once until MM came along and my M was on the verge of splitting anyway. I spent a year and a half analyzing his every word, gesture, motion to figure him out before asking him on...what do we call it...bed day?...if he had anything I should know about. He said no and I believed him. Good instincts is all I can say, on both parts. There was no condom but the meeting was pretty much planned.
White Flower Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 My WW said she met OM a few times as friends. She said she had no interest, nor knew where it was going. So, they had sex in the park after the 3rd meeting.....and he used a condom. My question to her was.......DIDN'T you feel it wasnt an accident on his side? When you saw a 53 year old married man, break out a condom in his car.....DIDNT YOU THINK WTF....HE WANTED SEX, NOT FRIENDSHIP!!! HAHAHAHAHA! This is my point exactly. There has to be an unspoken expectation of where the evening is going..... Because if someone, anyone whips out a condom, and you are not appalled at the overt suggestion of one, you are so ready to cross that line. But hey, if it protects your psyche in the aftermath to think so, either you were not wanting to think, or your thinking is very, very delusional. Frightening, no? The self-deceptions necessary to give yourself permission to cross that line. Am I old-fashioned or what? 3 dates??? I waited...and made him wait a year and a half. I don't think I can survive todays trends if I go back out there. Yikes!
Author Spark1111 Posted June 18, 2010 Author Posted June 18, 2010 Am I old-fashioned or what? 3 dates??? I waited...and made him wait a year and a half. I don't think I can survive todays trends if I go back out there. Yikes! WF, you have NO IDEA, if what my single friends tell me is even half true!:o:o
White Flower Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 WF, you have NO IDEA, if what my single friends tell me is even half true!:o:o I work with a lot of women in their 30s and 40s and I guess I do have a glimpse of what to expect. Still, I don't think I'll survive. A BJ is the new French kiss. jiminy Christmas! And women are so competitive these days. If you make them wait, they'll just go find another one on Plenty of Fish the same day. Hesitate and you're outta there!
OWoman Posted June 19, 2010 Posted June 19, 2010 Your MM is straight so only has sex with women and he does not do drugs. That makes his chances to catch an STD small. Sorry - but that's just wrong! Most of the people who have HIV are straight, and have only ever had sex with other straight people of the other sex, and have never done drugs. There may be pockets - like areas of San Francisco, where HIV was first identified in the gay community - where that trend doesn't hold, but the global picture for PWAs is as I described. Poverty, the presence of other illnesses like TB, and certain practices ("rough" sex, "dry" sex or anal sex) can increase the risk of becoming infected, if one's partner is infected, but anyone who has sex with anyone is at risk, unless both people have not ever had sex with anyone else, neither has received blood or been exposed to blood or blood products (eg assisting at an accident scene), neither has shared needles or any other potential infectious device, and neither was born HIV+ through Mother to Child transmission. If you can't be absolutely certain of all of that - then yes, there is a risk, however small.
Corporate Posted June 19, 2010 Posted June 19, 2010 Sorry - but that's just wrong! Most of the people who have HIV are straight, and have only ever had sex with other straight people of the other sex, and have never done drugs. There may be pockets - like areas of San Francisco, where HIV was first identified in the gay community - where that trend doesn't hold, but the global picture for PWAs is as I described. Poverty, the presence of other illnesses like TB, and certain practices ("rough" sex, "dry" sex or anal sex) can increase the risk of becoming infected, if one's partner is infected, but anyone who has sex with anyone is at risk, unless both people have not ever had sex with anyone else, neither has received blood or been exposed to blood or blood products (eg assisting at an accident scene), neither has shared needles or any other potential infectious device, and neither was born HIV+ through Mother to Child transmission. If you can't be absolutely certain of all of that - then yes, there is a risk, however small. What's dry sex?
VelveteenBunny Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 (edited) I'm sorry you went through this. I know it must have been incredibly painful, and her having condoms is no excuse. It is quite possible, and perhaps most likely that A. This has happened before and she wanted to be prepared, B. It was the first time, but she wanted it to happen and was hoping it was possible, and maybe had signs it was possible, C. They planned it, or D. There were no condoms and he simply said there were. But it's not unusual for women to carry condoms even if they aren't sexually active. Some people like to be prepared, especially if they are seeing someone or interested in someone, but also if they are open to casual sex (even if they have no one in mind). Also, some people are sexually active, but not mongamously so. Most women use chemical bc if they are reg. sexually active. Yet, women who aren't sexually active and maybe haven't been in awhile, might still be open to casual sex, and carry condoms, but forgo bc. Also, some women don't want to use chem bc or can't. I don't want to. Plus, bc pills are NOT a substitute for condoms. Women who are into casual sex, non-monogamous sex, or who are simply worried about stds, not just babies, and have the self respect to say no to unprotected sex, will be more likely to carry condoms, even if they are on chem. bc. Also, if either of you has had sex with someone else in a recent enough time frame that you could have an std that hasn't shown up in tests yet, you need condoms. This can take 6 months and genital warts can take years. Men often carry diseases, have no symptoms, and don't get std tests. Many men don't like condoms, but some men insist when having casual sex. Plus, if a woman insists, many guys agree to use one. Edited June 20, 2010 by VelveteenBunny
Recommended Posts