Deadbeat- Can you ask him to give up parental rights but still pay child support? NY

[KismetGirl]

This is a question on behalf of someone close to me (I'm going to call her Jane for sake of writing clarity), but I'm trying to do some research online and without trying to pay for a lawyer yet, which is a little rough, I'm trying to garner some info from anyone who might have already been there first before I help her go attorney hunting.

 

Someone close to me recently found out she's pregnant (Jane Doe). The father is a real scum-of-the-earth. I coudn't even fathom why she would let this loser near her to begin with, but what's done is done.

 

He is probably in his late 30's, and is already MARRIED WITH KIDS and lives with his wife outside the city. He is already a terrible husband and father to them-- I've heard he sometimes BEATS his wife (has never hit my Jane, thank god, or I would f**king kill him), but suffice to say he has no respect for his wife in a way that is worse than the average cheating husband. He stays out 6 nights a week with his friends until all hours of the night, partying, drinking, smoking weed, and sleeping with girls left and right. I men, this guy is a piece of work. I'm pretty sure some of the money he makes is of illegal means (drug dealing, etc). I would rather rip out my own liver than have this man be related to a child that is going to be close to me but that part is not in my control.

 

When Jane told this loser that she's pregnant, he freaked out and said she had to abort it. Now, this happened already once before. This posting is NOT for any opinions about how Jane needed to be more careful this time, because, again, I've already had that argument and what's done is done.

 

The focus is now on thi kid. Jane had an abortion last year and said she can't stand to go through it again and wants to keep it this time. She told the father she was pregnant and not only did he insist she get rid of it, he started screaming that she was ruining his life, and to add insult to injury, he said that she was a whore and that it probably wasn't his kid anyway and it could be anyone's baby (it's not. it's HIS effing kid.)

 

Easy for him to stick his d**k into everything that moves but when this happens he expects it to just go away , guess.

 

My question after all this ranting is, what kind of rights does this guy have? I am horrified at the thought of him having any role in this child's life. I am rather hoping that he would just agree to give up all parental rights and slink away into the hole he came from.

 

But, even if he DOES agree to give up parental rights, can Jane still make him pay child support? She does not have the financial means to be doing this on her own and the ownus of assistance will end up falling on the family and friends who themselves have little money to begin with. He's a pathetic excuse for a person, a husband and a father, and I don't think he has any right to say in this child's life, but he should be held fiscally responsible.

 

Does anyone have any experience with relinquishing father's paternal rights while still making them pay child support? Is this even possible? Please note this is in NY state, as I believe that laws may vary from state to state in this matter, so those in NY state who have experienced this would be most informative at this time, though anyone else WITH SOLID KNOWLEDGE (eg-lawyers or those that have been involved in this type of situation, and NOT those with simple opinions you heard from friends of friends of some article you read on the internet one day...no offense) is welcome to chime in too.

 

THANKS.

 

Please, no opinions as to whether or not you think he has a right to his child, that's not what this thread is about. I just wanted to give background info, and the question is purely A) how does Jane go about getting him to give his custodial rights and B) once that is done can she still make him pay child support.

 

Thank you.

[norajane]

I don't have an answer to the legal question, and you are not likely to get an answer here.

 

But I will throw out a concern...you can't squeeze blood out of a turnip. What makes Jane think this guy makes enough money that any child support would make a material difference? His wife and kids have rights to his assets, and even if they garnish his wages, how does your friend know that he makes enough the her share of child support would be enough to really raise this kid?

 

His illegal money won't be counted toward his income. And if he's in debt up to his eyeballs, which would not surprise me in the least considering how he spends his time, and he doesn't make much (which, again considering how he spends his time, I doubt he has a successful career going), she will probably not end up with not much child support, and if she doesn't have much and her family doesn't have much, this is going to be a kid raised with...not much.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

Ive only read half of it sorry its getting late here my advice tell Jane to stop sleeping with cheating scumbags and to go on some birth control please don't take that the wrong way no offence meant honestly.

 

I just cant help but think its the kids who are conceived in situations like this who truly suffer the most over all. Tell her if she wants to have the baby to do the best thing for it and cut contact with the dirt bag and raise it on her own.

 

Sure it will be hard but better for the child in the long run to not have a toxic man like that in his/her life i'm fairly sure no court will award money with out also allowing him some kind of visitation.

[melodymatters]

First of all, no judge will terminate parental rights. Period. If the father signs away his rights AND there is a stepfather who wishes to adopt, that will be allowed, but when I asked a lawyer about a similar situation I was told that the state will never "bastardize" a child.

 

All your friend CAN do is not put him on the birth certificate. That way he will have no rights ( unless he fights for them, insists on a dna test etc) which it doesn't sound like he would do.

 

I agree that getting child supprt from this guy sounds unlikely, so I would go with plan B above personally.

[sally4sara]

The only way for him to give up his rights is for the kid to be adopted by other parents or if she were to marry and the guy wanted to adopt the kid as his own.

If this is the guy's reaction, I doubt he is going to be wanting to play daddy whether or not he becomes court ordered to pay child support or not. So she should just leave him off the birth certificate.

If Jane ever applies for financial assistance for the child, it is possible they will seek out the POS for child support. My uncle found he had a 14 year old daughter this way. The mother never told him she was pregnant and it was a fling relationship right before he moved several states away.

 

Now as to if she will get child support from him.

Highly unlikely. She can file, but she will have to name him as the father first. And he can, at that point, act on visitation rights he could be given. If this were to happen, it might benefit her to report his abuse of his other kids so social services has a bead on the kind of father he is.

Make sure she gets both full physical and legal custody if she decides to name him and go this route.

But even if she names him and he is ordered to pay child support, no one can make anyone do anything. He can job hop, making it impossible to nail him down for garnishment. He can get paid under the table and there will be no paycheck to garnish. They can seize his tax return, but if he is working only sporadically or under the table, there will be no tax return to seize. And if he ends up in jail, he won't be working a job to get garnished.

And you say he has other kids? Any money they might squeeze out of him will be divied up amongst all the kids.

 

Many things concerning family law vary from state to state. Time to head to the library to find out what your state's standards are.

[Art_Critic]

I agree that getting child supprt from this guy sounds unlikely, so I would go with plan B above personally.

 

I'm not normally one to throw my hat in this ring but this bothered me some..

 

Money is the only reason he should be put on the birth certificate ?

 

The reason I ask is that I think the way he is acting should mean no name on the birth certificate no matter how much money the guy has..

To me money is a piss poor reason to give the guy any shot at helping to raise the child.

 

To the Original Poster...

I do agree that maybe her best strategy is to not name the father, that way she can raise the child without his interference.. but that also means no child support from him and no father for the child.

 

and Melody is right.. it is my understand that you cannot get a court to terminate a parents rights, they must sign it away and in doing so they also don't have to support that child.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Art_Critic

[melodymatters]

Sorry Art, I was just trying to be brief and smooshed the info together. I think she should leave him off the birth cert for the many, other, obvious reasons.

 

I was also simply pointing out that it was unlikely she would get much financial support anyway, so if that was her only motivation for naming him, forget it.

 

I DO think the child needs to be told age appropriate information as time progresses, and that she, the mother shouldn't lie to the child or act like it's a dirty secret. Just that she doesn't give him any legal rights by naming him on the BC.

[Art_Critic]

Thanks for clarifying that for me MM.. .. I get what you meant now.. duh..

[Jilly Bean]

Jane should seriously give thought to giving the child up for adoption or having the (second) abortion. Neither she, nor the father, are fit to be parents - emotionally, socially, or financially.

 

That being said, the only way she can get child support is to sue him for it. Does she have the money for legal representation? Because you can't just file a motion at the court house and expect the state to do the work for you. Doesn't work that way, and she WILL need a lawyer to sue him for support. But, most likely she doesn't, from what you say. So, that's not an option anyway.

 

Plus, if he's as slimey as you say, he'll find a way to buck the system. and never pay her a dime. Not to mention what kind of hurt he could put on her, as he sounds like a bit of a petty criminal.

 

Her best options are adoption, or abortion. And then to stop screwing married men with no protection.

[climbergirl]

For most states...

 

Legal and physical custody automatically goes to the mother if she is not married, regardless of naming a father on the birth certificate. However, naming the father does pave the path to joint custody.

 

Naming a father on a bc does not automatically entitle the mother to CS, nor does it automatically entitle the father to visitation.

 

Agree with the others that, except in extreme situations, a court terminating parental rights is highly unlikely. And like the others have mentioned, the father can relinquish rights in cases of adoption.

 

It seems the only recourse for your friend is to forgo naming the father and resigning to the fact that she will need to support her child financially alone if she wants him to have no involvement whatsoever. That still doesn't negate the fact that he may want to get involved later, of which he will have every legal right to.

 

Has your friend considered giving the baby up for adoption?

[climbergirl]

Jane should seriously give thought to giving the child up for adoption or having the (second) abortion. Neither she, nor the father, are fit to be parents - emotionally, socially, or financially.

 

That being said, the only way she can get child support is to sue him for it. Does she have the money for legal representation? Because you can't just file a motion at the court house and expect the state to do the work for you. Doesn't work that way, and she WILL need a lawyer to sue him for support. But, most likely she doesn't, from what you say. So, that's not an option anyway.

 

Plus, if he's as slimey as you say, he'll find a way to buck the system. and never pay her a dime. Not to mention what kind of hurt he could put on her, as he sounds like a bit of a petty criminal.

 

Her best options are adoption, or abortion. And then to stop screwing married men with no protection.

 

This may not be the case in NY, but in MN the state does do the work for you for $20 (may have gone up in the last 6 years). I didn't need representation and my understanding is that it's beneficial for the state to do the work to obtain CS for the parent in lieu of said parent being dependent on the state for support.

[ADF]

The laws governing child support and parental rights are state laws, and they vary a great deal from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. You need to contact a lawyer in your own state to find out what the specific laws in that state are.

[KismetGirl]

Thank you to those who tries to strictly give informational advice, it is appreciated though I think some people may have misunderstood when I said "how to get him to give up paternal rights". I did not mean to imply that we could force him to give them up if he didn't want, but rather I was wondering what is the procedure (just paperwork, or some other actions needed) if the father wants to voluntarily give up those rights, which I am assuming this d-bag wants. I don't think he wants anything to do with it, and I am fairly certain Jane intends to leave him off the birth certificate.

 

To the rest of you who just couldn't help yourselves with the comments of "maybe you shoudl tell Jane not to sleep with married men without protection": YOU are the reason I would never tell her to come here for advice herself. I did not ask for your opinion on the morality of her actions.

 

if you have some magical way to go back in time and change those actions, then you are a genius and you shoudl market your time machine. You could make billions.

 

But I am guessing you have no such time machine, so keep your f**king unsympathetic , unsolicited, and useless opnions to yourself. You are lucky it is not me who is in this predicament, because you shoudl really consider how your words can affect people. Jane already feels horrible, and is trying to make the best out of a situation. Should she have made different decisions in the past? YES. CAN SHE GO BACK IN TIME AND CHANGE IT? NO. So insulting people and making them feel more horrible....tell me how that helps anyone?

 

You know that old adage of "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all"? Maybe you should keep that in mind. Treat people how you would like to be treated. If she was STILL shagging this married guy I can faintly understand why some people would address that issue, but she isn't , and what's done is done. The fertilization of the egg and sperm has already taken effect, this is no going back, so when someone asks you for factual information regarding paternal rights and child support, don't interject with your nonsense insults about how the person is also a loose whore who asked for it.

 

Jane is, otherwise, no one you would imagine this happening to by looking or talking to her. She could be your sister, your daughter, or your friend. Look at your sisters, daughters, and friends, and wonder if you would like people saying those things about them if this type of thing happened to THEM.

 

And don't you tell me "that would never happen to MY sister/daughter/friend", because Jane's mother/sisters/friends never imagined it would happen to her either before this last whirwind year when she got caught up with this dirtbag.

 

To those that tried to help, thank you, and for the others , you should be ashamed of yourselves.

 

I was upset for her and wanted to see if others had been in her situation and have FACTUAL advice to give, but since no one does I'll look elsewhere. Thank you for your time, have a lovely day.

[whichwayisup]

This guy i'm sure will have no problem letting go. He doesn't want to deal with her or the baby, so it'll probably be a relief to him if she doesn't name him as the father on the birth cerficate. BUT, by her doing that, she can't go after him for child support. Either he's in or he's out, not half way.

 

To those that tried to help, thank you, and for the others , you should be ashamed of yourselves.

 

You know LS.. Also, just my 2 cents, (and I mean this respectfully and nicely) maybe you gave too much detail about your friend, some stuff could have been left out.. You must have known by going into detail about her past and him being married that some would jump on it.

 

Bottomline is the guy is a jerk, and your friend needs to talk to a lawyer. She needs to protect her baby from that guy.

 

Anyway good luck, hope things work out for her.

[melodymatters]

It's love shack. You've got to be able to ignore the " haters" !

 

As for your first paragraph, again there is no form that a man can sign terminating his parental rights except in case of adoption ( either by a whole 'nother couple or by a step father).

 

The only think Jane can do is leave him off the birth certificate and tell him as far as she is concerned he has no rights NOR responsibilities. If he goes along, great, problem solved. If he wants a DNA test and to have rights AND responsibilities, the courts will likely order one and she will have to have this guy in her life.

 

It's pretty cut and dried. I did talk to more than one NY lawyer about this at one time.

[sb129]

 

It seems the only recourse for your friend is to forgo naming the father and resigning to the fact that she will need to support her child financially alone if she wants him to have no involvement whatsoever. That still doesn't negate the fact that he may want to get involved later, of which he will have every legal right to.

 

Like one of the others said- its either one or the other, you can't have a halfway father (ie one that pays child support but isn't named on the BC).

 

This isn't legal advice, but still: if I were in this situation (and I am a mother, and have been an OW, so but for a few rolls of the dice, I could have been) I would go it alone, and not expect a penny from the father so that I could cut him out of my(our) lives completely.

 

It would be tough, but its possible to have a baby on a low income.

Then when the child was an appropriate age I would tell him/her of the circumstances of their birth and if they wanted to contact their father I wouldn't stop them- but I would try to mentally prepare them of the fact that their father may not be interested in them.