Stuck!

[WhyHope]

Whyhope > your problem is that you care too much. I know she is your wife, but as far as she is concerned it is over and she is not doing anything wrong. Everything you have said so far about your wife suggests that she is done and may have other romantic interests. LET HER GO man! You are still young and have a whole promising life ahead of you. Fill your life with hope not despair. I guarantee you that if you pushed for divorce, sold the house, moved on etc, she would be knocking loudly on your door. The trouble is, you would let her back in... I wouldn't.

 

About time you started investing all the energy you are wasting in your career, in you, you, you. You will get so much further ahead in your life.

 

Nomad1

 

 

oh, she has said that loud and clear. She is done. But then why leave me hope with asking for separation (and saying hopefully it will lead to us reconciling)? Why not insist on the separation - when that's is what she wants? She knew that I wanted an answer by Sunday - whether she can deal with an in-house separation or she plainly wants me to move out. Sunday came and went. Nothing from her...

[summerautumn]

Trying... Really trying. I think that she cut off majority of contact w OM. For me? May be. But there were so many episodes where it really seemed like she was doing things on purpose - just to get me. Or, may be she just felt like: I am not doing anything wrong, so I will do whatever I want." Biggest thing that came out of this weekend was that she actually tried to be somewhat playful with me. But I can also see that she is "waiting" for me to react negatively to anything. I won't. Emotions are under check

 

Sometimes I just feel like hugging her and telling her that all is good.

 

Whyhope, when I read your post, I thought of Yoda's words.

 

Will power will only get you so far. I sense you are letting go more.

 

W seems to be playing a game, whether she realizes or not. Its easier to play the game for both of you at this point. I have to say its great to see how self-aware you are. I feel that most people would not be able to look at things in real time, and make the assessments that you are making.

 

As far as not being triggered by your emotions, that's not quite possible. Its automatic, trigger = emotional response. What you do with the emotions is controllable to some degree, but I view that as actually a deterrent to really letting go and seeing the truth.

 

I can't tell you what will happen in your M, but I can tell you that being honest with yourself and really feeling your emotions will heal you.

 

And btw, what about the kids? How are they feeling?

[summerautumn]

I just looked up quotes by Yoda.lol Not a Star Wars fan, but I do like Yoda. A bit humor if I may.

 

May the Force be with you.

 

Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

 

Grave danger you are in. Impatient you are.

 

Always in motion is the future.

 

Death is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them do not. Miss them do not. Attachment leads to jealously. The shadow of greed, that is.

 

Named must your fear be before banish it you can.

 

 

 

[Luke:] I can’t believe it. [Yoda:] That is why you fail.

 

Yes, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice.

 

Powerful you have become, the dark side I sense in you.

 

The dark side clouds everything. Impossible to see the future is.

 

Foreplay, cuddling - a Jedi craves not these things.

 

Ohhh. Great warrior.Wars not make one great.

 

Happens to every guy sometimes this does.

[WhyHope]

Whyhope, when I read your post, I thought of Yoda's words.

 

Will power will only get you so far. I sense you are letting go more.

 

W seems to be playing a game, whether she realizes or not. Its easier to play the game for both of you at this point. I have to say its great to see how self-aware you are. I feel that most people would not be able to look at things in real time, and make the assessments that you are making.

 

As far as not being triggered by your emotions, that's not quite possible. Its automatic, trigger = emotional response. What you do with the emotions is controllable to some degree, but I view that as actually a deterrent to really letting go and seeing the truth.

 

I can't tell you what will happen in your M, but I can tell you that being honest with yourself and really feeling your emotions will heal you.

 

And btw, what about the kids? How are they feeling?

 

 

I just hate the whole "walking on eggshells" thing. Just kills me. But I need to let go, completely, you are right.

 

As of right now 0 the M does not look good. I do think that she probably "kinda" made up her mind.

 

Kids - kids are good - I am getting so much love from them - in front of her. We have been civil - therefore kids do not really see it. Youngest did mention that we should not scream at each other and oldest keeps trying to put a wedding ring on W's finger.

[tnttim]

Why hope. I understand what your going through, really. You know what to do but it is hard to do it. You want to move on and be happy but you just can't do it. You feel hopeless at times and wish you could just wake up from this nightmare.

 

Take my advice. Make a plan based solely on Tea's advice. Then each day do a little more than the previous, and don't dwell on mistakes or what she does. I guarantee each day you will feel better. Let time run its course, the biggest mistake I made was trying to rush time.

 

Btw, tea you have mad skills, you should be a M counseler.

[WhyHope]

Why hope. I understand what your going through, really. You know what to do but it is hard to do it. You want to move on and be happy but you just can't do it. You feel hopeless at times and wish you could just wake up from this nightmare.

 

Take my advice. Make a plan based solely on Tea's advice. Then each day do a little more than the previous, and don't dwell on mistakes or what she does. I guarantee each day you will feel better. Let time run its course, the biggest mistake I made was trying to rush time.

 

Btw, tea you have mad skills, you should be a M counseler.

 

 

Thank you. That's exactly what I am trying to do. And I do want to wake up from this crap.

 

Forget MC for Tea - I have a business proposition - Lawyers trying to keep families together - "A Different Approach to Mediation!" hahahaha

[trippi1432]

TEA - All I can say is WOW!! Reading through your posts, I only wish you had been posting here a year ago. My STBXH has changed for the better, stopped drinking.....whole 9 yards....what he wouldn't/couldn't do for us in 15 years. I am humble enough to admit that his OW helped him to see that he needed to change, and he did for her.

 

Sometimes two people truly don't bring out the best in each other, not saying this is your case WhyHope, but if you can remember better times more than bad times in your marriage....then you know that the best is still there somewhere. Follow TEA's advice.......

[Gunny376]

Basically what Tea (IMO ~ Correct me if I'm wrong) is saying is identify your weaknesses and seek self improvement daily ~ work on yourself, concentrate on becoming the best "you" that you can become (which you need to do anyway) and back the F**k off the SO, give her space and let her do her own thing.

[WhyHope]

Basically what Tea (IMO ~ Correct me if I'm wrong) is saying is identify your weaknesses and seek self improvement daily ~ work on yourself, concentrate on becoming the best "you" that you can become (which you need to do anyway) and back the F**k off the SO, give her space and let her do her own thing.

 

 

You got it. Now lets see if I get it! )))

 

W tried to pick an argument today - why did you take the kids outside if you saw that the younger one was tired. No he really wasn't, I took them biking because they asked to. It was 8 pm for crying out loud. BUT, I did not fight or argue...

 

Did text her. After a phone conversation (which was like pulling teeth):

me - Why do we talk like that

her - Because we have problems

me - I know we can deal with them

her - SILENCE

 

later on

We texted (actually I did) about her work. Tried to be very NON-judgmental and did not offer solutions. Just praised...

 

Still, I FEEL that I went too far on the contact.

 

TEA - offer more advice (thank you). How much contact is too much? Also, if she is in EA, should I do anything differently?

[WhyHope]

TEA - All I can say is WOW!! Reading through your posts, I only wish you had been posting here a year ago. My STBXH has changed for the better, stopped drinking.....whole 9 yards....what he wouldn't/couldn't do for us in 15 years. I am humble enough to admit that his OW helped him to see that he needed to change, and he did for her.

 

Sometimes two people truly don't bring out the best in each other, not saying this is your case WhyHope, but if you can remember better times more than bad times in your marriage....then you know that the best is still there somewhere. Follow TEA's advice.......

 

 

That's the problem - I am a very easy going guy. ALL of the times, even when we had arguments (which were extremely short-lived and non-volatile) I felt that the times were good. Solid. And now this... I keep remembering how many times she, without prompting asked me "How did you know that we are going to be so perfect together?" WTF?! Man, this sux

[tnttim]

Stop contacting her!!!

 

Unless it really has something to do with the kids or money, no contact. That goes both ways, if she texts you about anything but the kids, do not reply.

 

You think you are being nice by contacting and then keeping it non judgmental. She thinks you are being over bearing and thinks you are dependent on her. That's the counter intuitive part, you think your being nice, she thinks your being creepy. You think you are showing concern by contacting her, she thinks your being needy.

 

Leave her alone, its truly the best thing right now. Don't worry about contacting her in the past, we all fall down sometimes. Just brush yourself and start NC today.

[trippi1432]

That's the problem - I am a very easy going guy. ALL of the times, even when we had arguments (which were extremely short-lived and non-volatile) I felt that the times were good. Solid. And now this... I keep remembering how many times she, without prompting asked me "How did you know that we are going to be so perfect together?" WTF?! Man, this sux

 

True, but you are also seeing that from your side....not from her side. Take the advice given here and stop obsessing over the memories right now. Those will come later, either together or apart.

[Tea]

thank you for all your kind words! I can only relay what I've learned and continue to learn everyday in my quest to having a more fulfilling life.

 

WhyHope. Please please stop the contact and I'll tell you why from my perspective.

 

I mentioned that even when my H made positive changes, I was too resentful to even acknowledge them. I wasn't ready to, I was still pissed. So, I'll relay an experience that I hope you could understand why any contact, even the ones you deem positive, can be damaging.

 

My biggest problem w/ my H negativity and just plain bad attitude. He was mad just for the heck of it. There was nothing good about life and things would always be better "if..." After our separation and some incidents he experienced on his own, he says now that he realized that all the money, cars, houses, in the world wouldn't matter if he didn't have his family.

 

During our separation, he did start becoming more positive, but in our interactions, I was still resentful and sensitive about his negativity. One day (maybe month 2 of separation), we were at a social event and he said something like "I really don't care for ______________." I (and, yes, I am ashamed) instantly found an opportunity to chew him out: "well, you just don't care for anything. what's wrong with ____________?" (knowing what was wrong with ____________ b/c it was a political belief we both agreed with) and I just started debating him about it. I played devil's advocate and really just went on a tangent.

 

I took it WAY over the top and started saying really belittling things just to push his buttons. He back peddled, but tried to have a civil debate in front of our peers. I took advantage of knowing his views and just shot him down. People came to his rescue, and I debated them to finalizing my argument on a more personal level, never raising my voice. Something to the effect of "what does it matter, there is nothing out there you actually like anyway so I can't convince you otherwise."

 

He had it. He said things like "don't lawyer up on me..." and I said things like "is that what you think this is? I think you're resentful of my position, is that why you put me down..." and so on and so on.

 

(I feel like apologizing to him again for this episode as I write this, btw).

 

It took me FIVE MONTHS to come around. FIVE MONTHS!

 

So, how to interact with her because of the children? I thought about this.

 

How would a new man interact with her and her complaints about the children. I guess, for one, she probably wouldn't have any. But, a guy trying to get in her pants would act very different that just defensive. He would probably say something like "oh! I'm sorry, I didn't realize that 8pm was late. I just couldn't resist when cute little ____ asked to go for a ride, I figured it would be nice for them..."

 

Any attitudes you were comfortable with in the past, no matter how slight (even the inflection of your voice when you say "he wasn't tired, it was only 8" is ammunition). When words come out of your mouth, think of how they will be repeated to ILs, BFFs and OMen to justify her point of how impossible it is to live with you.

 

My biggest ammunition from the argument I picked and pushing HIS buttons was his final "you're not the woman I married..." and I said "then what are you going to do about it?!" So, I just focused on that when people asked how things were going. "He says I'm not the woman he married..."

 

Yes, we women are horrible, horrible creatures sometimes.

 

Don't text her. If she texts you about something she needs to talk about, just say "I'm here to listen if you want to talk when get home." And just do that: listen.

 

Men knew how to speak the woman language when they were courting. It does not mean you don't have opinions or don't have a backbone. You absolutely need that too! Act like a guy who is just starting to date. Those guys never whine or get defensive, yet still manage to have their opinions.

[Tea]

Forget MC for Tea - I have a business proposition - Lawyers trying to keep families together - "A Different Approach to Mediation!" hahahaha

 

Hilarious!

[trippi1432]

WhyHope. Please please stop the contact and I'll tell you why from my perspective.

 

I mentioned that even when my H made positive changes, I was too resentful to even acknowledge them. I wasn't ready to, I was still pissed. So, I'll relay an experience that I hope you could understand why any contact, even the ones you deem positive, can be damaging.

 

Yes!! This is spot on for most women WhyHope. It's not just seeing the changes, but also the courtship as TEA notes below.

 

It took me FIVE MONTHS to come around. FIVE MONTHS!

 

TEA - Mine moved directly onto another woman within weeks of our separation, it took me five months just to tell him it was okay for him to forgive himself and I have forgiven myself for what went wrong in our marriage. Forgiveness of each other takes more time in my case.

 

When words come out of your mouth, think of how they will be repeated to ILs, BFFs and OMen to justify her point of how impossible it is to live with you.

 

WhyHope - if you want to see proof of this above, go search for threads started by Trippi1432, there are emails and text messages documented here that not only justify how impossible it was to live with HIM but how impossible it was to live with ME as well.

 

My biggest ammunition from the argument I picked and pushing HIS buttons was his final "you're not the woman I married..." and I said "then what are you going to do about it?!" So, I just focused on that when people asked how things were going. "He says I'm not the woman he married..."

 

Yes, we women are horrible, horrible creatures sometimes.

 

I agree with this; however, men can also be horrible creatures when finding things to "dig" on to push those hot buttons as well. Best for both to walk away and cool off....something my ex and I could never do.

 

Don't text her. If she texts you about something she needs to talk about, just say "I'm here to listen if you want to talk when get home." And just do that: listen.

 

Men knew how to speak the woman language when they were courting. It does not mean you don't have opinions or don't have a backbone. You absolutely need that too! Act like a guy who is just starting to date. Those guys never whine or get defensive, yet still manage to have their opinions.

 

TEA - yet another great post!!!

[WhyHope]

TEA, TRIPPI - Thank you!!

 

I made another mistake today - confronted (not in a really bad way) her about lying to me - she went to a business meeting with OM. But, guess who is an a$$***le??? I AM!

 

Why? She did not lie - she just didn't tell me. Her point was - we have LC - that's what we need to do. No asking questions. I actually agree w her. (She reiterated that THERE IS NOTHING).

 

I have to eliminate ALL contact that is unnecessary - she can contact me if she wants to. I am focused on me and on me only.

 

Also, she actually likes me. I KNOW IT! )))) Will the M work JUST because of that? Heck no. But, TEA, she is just like you - smart and driven; hates to fail. THAT gives me hope that she is giving me a chance to improve myself. And I - just keep blowing it!

[trippi1432]

TEA, TRIPPI - Thank you!!

 

I made another mistake today - confronted (not in a really bad way) her about lying to me - she went to a business meeting with OM. But, guess who is an a$$***le??? I AM!

 

So you know this....stop doing it.

 

Why? She did not lie - she just didn't tell me. Her point was - we have LC - that's what we need to do. No asking questions. I actually agree w her. (She reiterated that THERE IS NOTHING).

 

I have to eliminate ALL contact that is unnecessary - she can contact me if she wants to. I am focused on me and on me only.

 

Keep the contact to the kids...that is what LC is about....

 

Also, she actually likes me. I KNOW IT! )))) Will the M work JUST because of that? Heck no. But, TEA, she is just like you - smart and driven; hates to fail. THAT gives me hope that she is giving me a chance to improve myself. And I - just keep blowing it!

 

No marriage works just because one person likes the other....believe me....I walked away from a Divorce Busting Coach going OMG!! There is a lot to this marriage business.....it's a road that you travel and each path you take leads to a new understanding of you, her and yourselves.

 

Don't be hard on yourself....this takes time....but work on the advice you are getting here...you aren't "blowing it" yet...you love her...that's not blowing it.

[Tea]

Trippi is right, you're not blowing it yet.

 

Remember how I told you to imagine how your words/actions will come out to other people? Here is what I hear:

 

"ugh. remember I told you how he was just really jealous and controlling? well, this morning he was upset b/c I 'lied' about going somewhere, simply because i didn't tell him. well, i didn't tell him because first, the business mtg wasn't a big deal and second, we are separated and have lc...i just don't know how this is going to work out if he is always keeping tabs on me, even when we're separated! whatever, i just can't deal with this anymore."

 

live your life. gunny repeated my advice pretty clearly. improve you.

 

And, SO WHAT IF SHE'S NOT TELLING WHERE SHE IS AND WHAT SHE IS DOING! THAT'S HER POINT, YOU CAN'T STAND NOT KNOWING HER EVERY MOVE AND IT'S SMOTHERING!!!!! I suspect that if she is going to push your buttons, it will be some kind of passive aggressive action of coming home a bit late without calling or leaving early, etc. You fell into the trap, but it's okay. Move on. You're the guy she chose to marry and have the best chance than any other guy to spend the rest of her life with.

 

Don't blow it.

[WhyHope]

Thank you Ladies!

 

I am trying. And I am actually not jealous at all. I hate the OM - he is a sleazeball, but whatever. I am not married to him.

 

Tea, you are absolutely right - that's exactly how she is reading that. MUST STAY AWAY! )))

[Gunny376]

Again decisiveness ~ the resolute affirmation of one being self confident and in control of their feeling, emotions and life ~ even their destiny

[Tea]

Thank you Ladies!

 

I am trying. And I am actually not jealous at all. I hate the OM - he is a sleazeball, but whatever. I am not married to him.

 

 

If you are not jealous, then why are you so concerned? You have been feeling a bit insecure and inferior, which has probably driven you to this point. And yes, I know, you feel your wife is the cause of your feelings...however, perhaps her actions are the effect and not the cause. but, no matter.

 

Yes, you have every right to feel insecure NOW because you have no idea if she is going to choose to stay in the marriage. That would make any person feel rejected.

 

But, this is exactly why you need to focus on yourself. Once you feel good about yourself, your feelings of insecurity will diminish and your need to know will, hopefully, be resolved.

 

This isn't advice I would give to a WS, but why do you question so much? She married you. She goes home to you. She can live without you and, yet, she still chose to be with you. Is that not enough?

 

When you're out riding bikes, would you like to be timed how long it took you? When you're meeting a client, do you want to be asked about where you were and who was there? When you're at work, do you want somebody to walk in and ask "who are you texting"?

 

Right now. She is done with that. If she chooses to cheat, she'll justify it bc of your smothering actions. If she chooses not to cheat, she'll be going back to you by choice. If she is choosing you it will be because you are confident in yourself and any relationship you will be in, why will you still be insecure or care about the sleazeball guy she has to hang out with?

 

She knows he's slimy. She doesn't need you telling her the obvious or playing Mr. Macho to show you're the better man. Hopefully she'll know where the boundaries are. If she doesn't, there is absolutely nothing you could do right now to prevent that.

[Gunny376]

I've a friend ~ only a HS graduate ~ who started out as a hard working laborer ~ worked his way up to being a foreman/supervisor where I work.

 

Although not college educated, he's smart, intelligent, out-going, always positive thinking, always seeing the glass as half full ~ rather than half empty type of individual. Always and ever very respectful, cooperative, easy-going, appreciative, smiling, in a good mood.

 

Mitch isn't capable of worrying about anything or anybody. He takes Life as it comes and deals with it.

 

His GF is an self made woman ~ an attorney who has built up her own practice mostly in Elder Law ~ but will handle and take on other cases as they arise.

 

She's also a Lieutenant Colonel in the Alabama National Guard ~ an rare accomplishment for a woman ~ let alone a Black woman.

 

She's up for "Full Bird" Colonel ~ and if she makes it will be the first Black Woman in the history of Alabama to do so ~ (Just to have made it as far as she has speaks volumes upon volumes)

 

She is very much a contender for making such in a very political state such as Alabama.

 

The thing that she most enjoys and likes about Mitch? He's not impressed nor intimidated by her accomplishments nor her status. He accepts her for being the "her" that she is ~ the person, the individual that she is.

 

He's not focused upon her being an attorney ~ nor a high ranking commissioned officer in the Alabama National Guard ~ he's focused on him being him and her being her.

 

She as much as told him that if you can find yourself someone better than me and what I've got to offer? You need to go for it! And I won't stand in your way.

 

Tea has said it, and now I'm saying it.

 

Your problem is your lack of self confidence. That's what jealousy is ~ your fear be able to compete with others that are competing with you for the attention and affections?

 

Decisiveness? You asked me my personal definition of such?

 

I'd kick her @zz to the curb like she was Monday morning trash! And then get my happy @zz busy living or dying!!

 

Its time to "Man-Up"

 

Whatever she's got ~ you can find just as much of ~ if not better, just as good ~ if not more!

 

In another woman!

 

What one will abuse?

 

Another can certainly use!

[WhyHope]

If you are not jealous, then why are you so concerned? You have been feeling a bit insecure and inferior, which has probably driven you to this point. And yes, I know, you feel your wife is the cause of your feelings...however, perhaps her actions are the effect and not the cause. but, no matter.

 

Yes, you have every right to feel insecure NOW because you have no idea if she is going to choose to stay in the marriage. That would make any person feel rejected.

 

But, this is exactly why you need to focus on yourself. Once you feel good about yourself, your feelings of insecurity will diminish and your need to know will, hopefully, be resolved.

 

This isn't advice I would give to a WS, but why do you question so much? She married you. She goes home to you. She can live without you and, yet, she still chose to be with you. Is that not enough?

 

When you're out riding bikes, would you like to be timed how long it took you? When you're meeting a client, do you want to be asked about where you were and who was there? When you're at work, do you want somebody to walk in and ask "who are you texting"?

 

Right now. She is done with that. If she chooses to cheat, she'll justify it bc of your smothering actions. If she chooses not to cheat, she'll be going back to you by choice. If she is choosing you it will be because you are confident in yourself and any relationship you will be in, why will you still be insecure or care about the sleazeball guy she has to hang out with?

 

She knows he's slimy. She doesn't need you telling her the obvious or playing Mr. Macho to show you're the better man. Hopefully she'll know where the boundaries are. If she doesn't, there is absolutely nothing you could do right now to prevent that.

 

 

Man, you are absolutely right. This post should be framed. Its her choice, and I hope she did not make it yet! )))

[Windsurf66]

Just wanted to recap your story.

 

Your jealousy and suspicions, all started when you read some unsettling emails between her partner and her which indicated that they had been flirting beyond boundaries (and perhaps still flirting even till now?), and she also lied to you about meeting that particular partner one day when you asked her out for coffee?

 

And after all these, she continues to try to hide things from you and continues to have unnecessary contact with that partner, which worsens your suspicions? When you visited her at office one day, she turned her phone to silent as soon as you walked in.

 

She went from "everything is ok" when you first confronted her, to now "I have nothing left for you, i am done, i want a divorce, i want you to move out, i don't want to work on the marriage, i don't want to go for MC". So i guess to her, things will be ok if you do not hinder her flirting and her r/s with that partner, and now that you are obstructing, she decided that it is better off without you. Possible?

 

Of course she will blame everything on your suspicious, which was originally triggered off by her actions. But if she really loves you and still remember her marriage vows, everything should be ok whether 8 months ago, or now. Right?

 

With her past actions of flirting, lying and hiding, for which she is still continuing till today with the flirting and hiding, you will never be able to let it go, unless you let go of the marriage completely. Trust me, I think we are the same kind Not the ultra obsessive and unreasonable kind. But the kind that once trust is broken, it is extremely hard to get it back. Just like patching back a piece of glass that shatters into many small pieces. It will take years, and constant reassuring (definitely not the kind of unsettling actions that your wife is still displaying) to lower down your suspicions.

 

I am sorry that you are stuck with the kids that you love, in this kind of marriage and with this kind of woman. You have the rights to your suspicions, with all that your wife have done. Innocent until proven guilty, does not mean that the person is really innocent. You are lawyer, you should know this well besides, an EA and flirting are just as bad and disrespectful as a PA.

[Windsurf66]

But why wouldn't your wife divorce you after all these?

 

1) She is a cake-eater.

2) She is afraid to be ruin financially.

3) She is worried for the kids. Such people have checked out of the marriage but if possible, they would want to keep the family intact and explore other people outside. They would drop the divorce bomb when the kids are grown up and/or found their OM/W. Have seen such cases in LS.

4) She is afraid of the stigma of a divorce.

5) She is afraid of your reaction, i.e. confronting the partner and exposing everything to the company and the whole world.

 

You could also assess the pros and cons of staying in this loveless marriage, and good to start exploring yourself too