A constructive way to get over my wifes past

[Wiubtfmf]

My wife and I have both had previous relationships including marriage, this is our second. Both of us made poor sexual choices as the result of a bad first marriage. Both of us entered into our first marriage with the person that took our virginity, and ultimately engaged in things we both very much regret toward the end of those marriages. In a lot of ways, we both gave up on the idea of saving ourselves, so to speak. With that said, here is the issue: we are both fully aware of each other's past and I am more hurt by her past than she is by mine. Right or wrong, that is the situation. Like most of you (I am sure) I have read a lot of posts and they all seem to offer the same information "shame on you for asking and then getting upset"' "how dare you get upset with her for doing in large part what you did", or my personal favorite "the past is past". While I actually agree with all that, I don't feel it. I want to. So I am not looking for all of you to tell me that it is my fault or that she or I are better off apart (that won't happen), I am asking for constructive steps, a plan or process to get to where I want to be. To find a way to be at peace with it. I am trying to find a way to be at peace with it for her as much as for myself. Thanks in advance for your positive feedback.

[Wiubtfmf]

This is a difficult area for me. I have been doing all I can to pinpoint what exactly bothers me so much but have been unable to do so to this point. I trust her fully, it's not a suspicion of cheating or a question of future infidelity. It is a feeling that something has been lost, a feeling of insecurity, and a feeling of inability to have the sexual exclusivity we both want. Again, I know that I did the same things and I have culpability too, but the feelings I have are relative to her, not me.. Right or wrong those are the feelings. When her marriage started to fail, she cheated just like he did and just like I did. She had 8 partners during the end of her marriage. Almost all of it was one night stands. She deeply regrets it today. When we do talk about it, I can very much identify with her because we both gave up on the idea of having the loving relationship we wanted and started down a path of self destruction. I honestly don't hold it against her, I understand the feeling of desperation and the bad choices. Again, the question is, how do I gain a level of peace and focus on building the life we want together.

[Ronni_W]

It is a feeling that something has been lost, a feeling of insecurity, and a feeling of inability to have the sexual exclusivity we both want. ... the feelings I have are relative to her, not me. Right or wrong those are the feelings.

Wiubtfmf,

In truth, you're not going to budge an (emotional) inch from where you are right now, if best you're going to do is say to yourself, "It's my feeling, and my feeling is my feeling, and I don't need to and won't explore it any further than that thank you very much."

So, your self-challenge will be to bring in some much-needed logic and reasoning amongst all of that feeling that you are experiencing. We all do need to marry our intellect with our emotions, and not just live by one or the other.

 

An emotion, perception or sensation (whatever elements make up what you are calling "a feeling") is what it is, exactly as you say. But, just because you're "feeling" something does not necessarily mean that it is appropriate under the circumstances, or that it is based on facts or sound logic, or that it cannot be questioned or changed.

 

According to cognitive behavioural theory, if a thought-feeling is causing any type of upset or anxiety then it is based on something foundationally unsound/unrealistic/unreasonable. The feeling is real but not "valid" in that its origins are due to inaccurate belief(s) and/or distorted perception(s). So, it's not about the feeling being "right or wrong", but about the accuracy and validity of the beliefs that gave/are giving rise to the feeling.

 

I would encourage you to get tough with yourself, divorce yourself from your "feelings", engage your intellect and start answering for yourself:

Does my 'feeling' accurately reflect the real facts of the specific situation? Is my perception being distorted by my own inaccurate, incomplete or misguided beliefs, or due to earlier/unresolved emotional wounds and traumas? Am I using this feeling or perception to avoid taking responsibility for something else, or to feel less guilty about something, or as a way to protect myself emotionally? (To mention just a few ways we use these types of feelings.)

 

Answer for yourself: What EXACTLY has been "lost" to you? How EXACTLY does her sexual history prevent you two from enjoying sexual exclusivity in the present? What EXACT meaning or your giving to your wife's choices and decisions prior to having met you? How EXACTLY would your relationship be any different today had she had fewer, or zero past lovers? (Not how would you "feel" different...how would your current life and relationship 'look' and actually BE different?)

 

Ask yourself: What can I do, on my own and for myself, to start feeling more secure in my current life and with my current partner? What do I still need to resolve within myself about me and my past choices and decisions? How can I stop making my wife responsible for my own feelings of insecurity, my own unsound, unrealistic or unreasonable expectations, beliefs and perceptions? What of my own current beliefs and perceptions are misguided, inaccurate, distorted or outdated, and therefore causing me to feel insecure and incomplete (as if I'm "missing" or "lacking" something)?

 

---

 

CBT is your answer. The constructive way for you to start taking responsibility for and changing your own current upsetting thoughts and feelings, as well as the underlying beliefs and perceptions, is to use cognitive therapy techniques and tools. With a therapist or self-help. But that's what you gotta do

 

Best of luck.

Edited June 13, 2010 by Ronni_W
grammar and stuff

[Wiubtfmf]

Ronni,

 

All I can say is WOW... I understand exactly what you are saying and I have been looking for exactly this. I have read the posts of others and never actually seen a constructive solution like this. I am very glad I finally worked up the courage to post myself.

 

I have always understood that my feelings are irrational and damaging. I want to get rid of them and the negativity they bring.

 

Further, I am very excited to read your response because it validates my belief that there is a way forward, and that we don't have to live with this negativity.. Can you provide any further suggestions as to how I could go further down this path? A perticular book or process, I would prefer to do it on my own but if therapy is required then I will go that route..

 

Thanks again..

[jenifer1972]

There have been some good discussions on this topic on LS, and one poster mentioned to the others of us on the thread, that this problem is called "retroactive jealousy". You can google that and find a lot of interesting information.

 

As someone who has struggled with this, I have come to think that

this comes up when the numbers are very different.

 

In our minds I think we tend to compare where we stand sexually with a partner and experiences "cancel each other out", but then if one partner has A LOT more partners, it tends to bother the other one. Also, I have found in reading threads, the posters who say the past is the past, etc., tend to be people with high numbers, so a partner with high numbers doesn't bother them.

[Ronni_W]

Further, I am very excited to read your response because it validates my belief that there is a way forward, and that we don't have to live with this negativity

Wiubtfmf,

There is DEFINITELY a way out of the muck you're in And your obvious desire and stated excitement about actually getting it done will go a long way! If you keep that up, there is only your success that is guaranteed.

 

Okay, so that's half the battle already won (if you keep up that attitude.) The other half is much more difficult. For example, see how you wrote,

"...so we don't have to live with this negativity"? It actually is YOUR negativity with which YOU are infecting "we". Being open, willing and able to accept 100% responsibility for your own stuff at all times is a necessity. It's also vital for you to be aware of and manage your self-talk and how you describe your problems and issues to others. It's all programming your brain-perspective-attitude in one or another direction.

 

First action step: Get yourself a journal (hand or electronic.) One per page, write down each of those questions and start bloody writing things down as they come into your head. THAT'S a process. Well, a technique to jog the process of self-reflection. Self-reflection is what's needed; to get to the bottom of your own "crap". This is a very effective technique, btw. Do not discount it just cos you read it in some online relationship forum. <lol>.

When you're writing, don't edit, just write. A month from now, you can ask/answer the same question, and different stuff will come out. That's kinda essentially how therapy works, anyway -- just you're paying somebody else to ask the questions. Well, a good therapist does much more. But this is a plenty powerful technique, which will get you ready for excellent therapy outcomes should you decide to go that route at some point.

 

Books you might consider:

'Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda' by Freeman and DeWolf (billed by some as THE CBT book, esp. for self-help)

'Forgive for Love' by Fred Luskin (even though "forgiveness" is not your deal, I think you'll find this one insightful/enlightening.)

'The Conscious Heart' by Hendricks and Hendricks (they do great relationship/couples' work, IMO)

You could check the library, or purchase for under U$5 each, + shipping, at BookCloseOuts.com

 

I actually would suggest to give those a read first, and then see where you are. With any luck at all, together they'll prove to be more than enough to make a permanent positive difference in your (maladaptive) habitual ways of thinking and doing. Well...reading the books plus: making the changes in your own head that you'll realize are needed; staying conscious and aware of how/what you're thinking and doing; using determination and discipline; and just practicing the new ways of thinking and doing consistently and persistently. Doesn't sound too difficult, does it?

 

Going into therapy to explore and 'reframe' the beliefs that are most responsible for preventing you from feeling happiness and contentment -- tough sledding with the best of therapists, and downright depressing without. (So, you kinda want to seriously commit to squeeze out as much as you can from those books. Seriously.)

 

Of course, if you do need more thereafter, there is a wide variety of books and resources. Feel free to repost or 'private message' me, if or when. Unfortunately, nothing I'm aware of that stands alone as one really good one resource, or even a set of really good ones. We're all dragging around way too many underlying limiting/wrong/outdated beliefs is actually the problem, for there to be one nice and easy solution or technique.

 

Again, very best of luck.

Edited June 14, 2010 by Ronni_W

[Wiubtfmf]

Jenifer, I agree completely. I like that term "retroactive jealousy". I will definitely look that up. Going a little further on that point, something that has stuck with me from another post was the following "we also get jealous of the partners our spouse had. We want to experience what they did with our spouse". I am not sure that there is a single answer out there (to answer all of my issues anyway.. , but I can identify to some degree with much of what I have read including these concepts.

 

Ronni, again.. Thanks.. Great info. I think you saved my life, or at least my sanity.

[jenifer1972]

I think you are right. Some of the feelings are difficult to put into words, but I think the "I want to experience what THEY did with my spouse" is definitely part of it. Really bugs me sometimes. Especially all the HOT ONS he had. His marriage I never think of, but then he doesn't say much positive about that.

 

Ronni's posts are very helpful. I am going to book mark them. I find myself drawing a blank at some of the questions. I guess I will need to ponder further and dig deeper..... I find this is a real process with sometimes moving ahead, and then taking 2 steps back...

[Wiubtfmf]

Jenifer, I feel like I am really identifying with you.. It is very reasuring to know that I am not the only person out there feeling this way. I have done a lot of thinking about this... A lot.... And I realize that all of what bothers me is just in my mind. If I can control it, we can both (my wife and I) be happy.. I like that.. I like it because there is hope and I have the ability to make our lives more positive. I don't know what your experiences have been (not asking) but I firmly believe that the sex that my wife had with those guys is far better in my mind than it was in reality. We have all had sex with more than one person and I can tell you form my experience that the component that makes it great is the deep attraction and love you feel for you spouse.. The one night stands just can't reach that level. They are exciting because it is new, but that's it.. I can just about guarantee you that the sex your husband had in the past is nowhere as good as what he has with you.. So I say, go do it again, make it better every time. Unfortunately the past will always be there, but at least we can make the safe assumption that the sex they experience with us is the best they have ever had. They don't want those other peole.. So let's be happy and confident with that.

[jenifer1972]

What do you think it is that bothers you the most? The prior marriage? The cheating? Or the 8 ONS?

 

Even though he has told me the ONS were fairly meaningless, my husband also had short flings, and I guess, for some reason, it is these "meaningless" relationships and ONS that bother ME the most and much more than his girlfriends. I guess because I can't see myself doing that and the underlying fear probably is that if he can have sex at the drop of a hat with a stranger, who's to say he can't be tempted during our marriage in a weak moment? That is probably the fear for me... And also that he could give a part of himself that I think is so special away to some nameless tramp...

[Wiubtfmf]

Jenifer, clearly it is the ONS that bother me most.. I think because I assume there is an excitement and pleasure there that I can't match... But that is all just my irrational feelings, when I stop and think logically through it as I do below, I feel confident and happy.... I can definitely give you feedback on this.. I have been in the position you are and I have been well into the position he is. I have had plenty of ONS and I would trade them all to have my wife's virginity. Like I said, the ONS are exciting because you are hunting so to speak and it's new, some girl is giving you what she is supposed to protect most and that is exciting. In the end, I can't remember any of mine, their faces, their names, how it felt, anything.. I can't remember because I just don't care and looking back I really wish I hadn't done it. I feel sorry for the girls I slept with and I feel sorry for my wife. My wife and I talk a lot, and I think (without trying to be cliché) that talking or , more to the point communicating is the key. Because I know that her ONS have left her with the same feelings I have about mine. I am confident in that I am better in every way. I talk to her, they didn't, I touch and hold her after sex they didn't, etc.. So again, I would say, make the assumption that he enjoys sex with you more (after all he married you) but don't forget that we all have a responsability to keep it exciting and to keep talking. The ONS come into play when our spouses aren't getting the attention they need from us (that is my experience any way, from both sides). If he doesn't make an attempt to do the same for you (keep sex exciting and communicate) then you need to have a tough conversation. But if you feel him making an effort to do that for you, then be confident that you have nothing to worry about. Tell him that you want to try new things (for example: my wife and I just found a "hidden" spot where we can have sex outside, I'm not encouraging you to do anything illegal). I travel a lot and everytime I come home, we drive out there and have amazing sex. Whatever gets the two of you excited and keeps you excited... Do it. When he is not excited anymore try something new, but ask him to participate and add his own ideas.. Again, when he stops participating, you should worry, until then he is all yours. Enjoy it!

Edited June 14, 2010 by Wiubtfmf

[Ronni_W]

I find this is a real process with sometimes moving ahead, and then taking 2 steps back...

Jenifer, it does feel like that...but, in reality, it only FEELS like that . The conscious-ego mind has one perception of what is going on in the subconscious...but that does not mean it is an accurate perception.

 

I mentioned earlier that we can ask our Self the same question a month later, and get different 'inner responses' -- I took that as my subconscious moving ahead; finding new information within itself about itself/me. "Externally", yes, I often felt as if I'd gone back 12 steps and it's all very frustrating, depressing and "WTF is wrong with me?"

 

But. Don't give in to what your ego mind is telling you (would be my suggestion.) It doesn't know. The 'processing and integrating' and moving ahead is happening at much deeper levels.

 

clearly it is the ONS that bother me most..

Just so you know. I've been through the same thing (not in specifics but in process.) I've had more therapy hours, attended more workshops, own more freakin' self-help books, videos and audios than I care to mention. I'm a sad case, is the truth of it

 

The one thing that is NOT the problem, is anything outside of yourself. It is NOT someone else's attitude, words, or past or present behaviour. The more you focus on what is "out there" that is causing your problems and issues, the further away you are getting from the actual cause of your problems and issues, and the more time you are a'wasting.

 

I did that: I looked outside of myself. Spent a goodly number of years doing that. It doesn't work to resolve anything of import. It is blame, and blame is us telling ourselves that we are helpless, powerless and sad, innocent victims of our external world and all the people and things "out there". Poor us...we have no control, no authority, no way to direct our own sinking ship. Boo-hoo and sob, yes?

 

What I would say is STOP! Stop trying to figure out your life from the outside in. Stop pretending (or bullshyting yourself, or whatever it is that you're doing here) that it is your wife's ONSs that are responsible for where you are.

 

And forget about finding labels for your feelings or her behaviour or whatever. We can get stuck in those, and then all-of-a-sudden all we're seeing/perceiving is "evidence" to support the labels. It's just a silly (useless, ineffective) endeavour. Don't do it.

 

At the same time. I totally get that we all have to go through whatever we decided we're going to go through. If you're gonna travel a similar path to the one I took...well, I know quite a bit about how that one goes so I can make a handy 'tour guide' -- lemme know when to pack my bags