Men: would you be put off by a girl having a PhD in math?

[JustJoe]

S and C, I've always found well-educated women to be a major attraction, especially if they have a wicked intellect.!! I'm sure that you realize that even with your PHD, there are a great many things that you are as clutsy about as the rest of us. What I was asking was if you somehow conveyed a certain smugness in your e-mails? Not bragging, exactly, but a condescending attitude. You also seem to be quite defensive and immature about this issue, when after all, it was you , who brought it up. While it's true that some men ( chauvinist Piglets, as my sister calls them:D) are intimidated by smart gals, the majority of modern men, are more interested in how you treat them, and how you interact with them, than in your educational portfolio.

[SarahRose]

Yep, if you are going to weed out the sex ones, the bad grammar ones, the insecure ones - there will be nothing left.

 

Yeah and all the separated ones too. Blah.

 

WA seems to be so extreme with either a bunch of Bogans or foreign nerdy engineer types

[tigressA]

WA seems to be so extreme with either a bunch of Bogans or foreign nerdy engineer types

 

I foreign nerdy engineers...

 

SAC, why don't you try contacting guys on the site who pique your interest? The worst thing they can do is not respond or say no.

[desertmoon]

I do not think it has anything to do with the "PhD in Math" I think the men back out because of negative stereotypes of people who have PhDs in Science, i.e. nerdy, socially inept, awkward, etc.etc....you seeking a "connection" online probably makes them think: "oh that's why she is online looking for a BF'....which of course is crazy because they are there for the same reason, no?

[carhill]

This is kind of a turn off for me but should I meet him for a drink?

I read the thread and thought this quote was a good jumping off point. If you're 'turned off', no, do not meet him. However, when you do correspond a few times with someone who does catch your interest without the discussion of the details of your respective careers, resolve to discuss those interesting facets of your lives in person over a meal somewhere, preferably sooner than later. Otherwise, this (online dating) gets to be droning repetition.

 

I would not find your degree or profession intimidating, rather fascinating. Most successful men would likely concur. That said, all men are different about what they are *attracted* to. I've only been to Perth once so don't really have a good read on Aussie men there, but I do know from my trips to other parts of Australia that there are some marked differences in perspectives and behaviors compared to my circle of male friends here in the U.S. *Different*, not better or worse. To me, it's finding synergy, a man with a compatible perspective and psychology.

 

IMO, a question to ask yourself is, in your history, what has been your viewpoint of men who *have* found you attractive and interesting? What's your side of the equation of synergy?

 

My synopsis. Not put off, but other men might be. Press flesh, as soon as possible, if correspondence flows. Keep an open mind. Accept that it is a numbers game and, coincidentally, that's *your* game (meaning your profession). Good luck

[BentSpine]

No, I belong to the set of men who wouldn't be put off by a PhD.

[Itzonator]

wow this thread is still rocking around. There must be many PhD students here

[Serenitynow]

Referring to getting emails from guys on the dating site, you wrote :

 

Yep, if you are going to weed out the sex ones, the bad grammar ones, the insecure ones - there will be nothing left

I would have thought that my emails to women stood out, amongst the horrid trash that they get from most guys. But I have emailed roughly 75 women in the past 8 months, and havent got 1 reply.

 

I've emailed very attractive women, and not so attractive women, ones with degrees, ones with no job, very broad spectrum.

 

In my opinion, most women on dating sites have no intention of ever meeting anyone.

 

I think they either :

 

A just go to pass time looking at profiles

B like to get emails as an ego boost

C email you back n forth for weeks because they are bored/lonely

 

.

 

 

.

[Arbitrariness]

Calculus? That's the equation for a line, like 7th grade stuff!

 

Yeh, I feel pretty stupid , it was late, and i saw 'm' and '=' and assumed it was einsteins relative mass thing. To add insult to injury i'm an engineering student who has to study calculus. I stand defeated.

[Krytie TV]

Yep, if you are going to weed out the sex ones, the bad grammar ones, the insecure ones - there will be nothing left.

 

Hey SCWA. A little off topic, but I will be getting my Ph.D. in Evaluation and Statistics in a little over a year. Would you indulge me in discussing what you have found to be your career options given your degree? Maybe over PM?

[SadandConfusedWA]

Hey SCWA. A little off topic, but I will be getting my Ph.D. in Evaluation and Statistics in a little over a year. Would you indulge me in discussing what you have found to be your career options given your degree? Maybe over PM?

 

It depends on your area. I generally found that unless you want to work in academia and get a research/teahing post, your PhD is of little use anywhere else.

 

Having said that, statisticians are in high demand everywhere so you are in a good position. Not sure what your Masters degree is in, but if you are doing a PhD to re-train instead of doing a second Masters - then it can also be useful in a private sector. What I mean is if you already have a Masters in say statistics and want to work in a private sector, doing a PhD in statistics won't improve your options much and is not at all necesseary.

 

Also, getting a tenured academic post is not at all easy.

[Mr White]

It's not a turn off, but you really shouldn't emphasize it beyond acknowledging that you have a good job and career. What would be a turn off would be a yapping about it too much - such as describing your research on your dating profile! Most people cannot imagine being interested in a narrow topic in an excruciating level of rigor, like what academic careers require).

 

I have a doctorate myself, and I would love to date someone like you, but statistically speaking () the odds are against me. Moreover, there are many other things/qualities in a woman that at the end of the day are much more important than the compatible academic background.

The morale being, i guess, that if even someone like me, with a similar academic background, would not pay much attention to your degree, guys in different careers will be especially uncertain in what to make out of your degree and career. No, you should not dumb yourself down, just realize that most men probably won't care too much about that.

[Jerry18]

It depends on your area. I generally found that unless you want to work in academia and get a research/teahing post, your PhD is of little use anywhere else.

 

Having said that, statisticians are in high demand everywhere so you are in a good position. Not sure what your Masters degree is in, but if you are doing a PhD to re-train instead of doing a second Masters - then it can also be useful in a private sector. What I mean is if you already have a Masters in say statistics and want to work in a private sector, doing a PhD in statistics won't improve your options much and is not at all necesseary.

 

Also, getting a tenured academic post is not at all easy.

 

Hi,

 

How hard is it to get a MS in statistics? I heard it's not very hard because the best undergraduates go for the PhD programs, and for most schools their MS programs are their cash-cows.

 

I'm thinking of getting one to prepare for the PhD in Finance or Economics because I'm not very confident of my math background (I feel like I have to take some graduate level Real Analysis).

[SadandConfusedWA]

Hi,

 

How hard is it to get a MS in statistics? I heard it's not very hard because the best undergraduates go for the PhD programs, and for most schools their MS programs are their cash-cows.

 

I'm thinking of getting one to prepare for the PhD in Finance or Economics because I'm not very confident of my math background (I feel like I have to take some graduate level Real Analysis).

 

As long as you pay up, it's VERY easy to get into MS course. I guess it depends what your undergraduate degree is in as it needs to have at least some quantitative component.

 

Getting into a PhD program is also easy, but it's finding the fully-funded PhD programs and good potential supervisors that's the hard part. Also, if you want to get into a top tier university's PhD program, make sure you do REALLY well in your MS course (as in have an above 85% average but above 90% is preferable).

[SadandConfusedWA]

I just re-read your post and if you meant how hard it is to get MS in statistics as in how hard it is to complete rather than just enter: well, it will have a strong math component, and if math is not your thing it can be challenging. You will need to take at least few very advanced mathy subjects so be prepared for that. Not sure how true it is that all the good students do a PhD after the undergrad - as I chose to do MS and in my course there were quite a few excellent students.

[Mr White]

1. You can be stuck up and put yourself down. When girls like Jennifer Love Hewitt call themselves nerds . It's extremely lame.

 

Being stuck up means you think you're better than other people because you have a PhD/are pretty/are poular. It's hard to describe a stuck up person, but it's easy to spot them in person.

 

2. Intellectual girls can be extremely difficult to date. I consider myself an intellectual, INTJ personality and I hope to start a PhD soon. First, they are usually hard to find socially, reclusive. Second, they are usually very liberal politically and lean in the extreme feminist territory which shrinks their dating pool alot (scares guys off). Third, it's easy for intellectual men to get stuck in the friendzone with them because these girls are such great conversationalists.

 

I love intelligent, highly educated women, but they are definitely one of the harder female types to date.

 

Ha, yes!

Moreover, the dating advice for men that can be derived from the above is that if you want to date intellectual/highly educated girl, you should simply ignore that fact; do not change your approach - just be good looking and confident, and treat her as any cute receptionist or hair dresser . It will work much better than actually trying to play up to her intellectual strengths (I.e. it will get you friendzoned). (Also, not to be a dick, but I recall posts from SACW lamenting the fact that she only seems to be attracted to very good looking men. Well, where's the intellectual component in that )

 

In any case, I know what I'm talking about, because i did not change my approach appreciably to win over my ex (a PhD in aerospace engineering, no less, albeit not the best conversationalist), and my current wonderful gf (sweetie with bad GPA, bad grammar, and a lot to learn, but still a good conversationalist). In both cases, attraction had nothing to do with my smarts, but with the fact that I more or less know (or stumbled upon), the proper/effective way to handle myself around women.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

I am not bragging about it at all.

 

I have exchanged about 4-5 e-mails with these men prior to that question where I just said that I work in research.

 

 

BOTH have asked me to expand on that and what sort of research do I do and at what level.

 

So I wrote 1 paragraph that it is in math, that I have a PhD and gave a bit more detail on the area. BOTH of them have stopped responding since.

 

Whatever. I am extremly proud of what I do. I won't minimize is it for anyone. If that means I will be single forever so be it. I have already prepared myself for that.

 

 

 

You are flat-out your own problem (as previously pointed out, and now confirmed).

 

When someone asks you a question, answer the question, or say nothing.

 

Of course anyone who answers "I work in research" to questions of what she does for a living is going to get further questions about what sort of research...

 

Exactly none of that involves disclosing to anyone you've never even MET that you have a PhD.

 

 

Go ahead and be proud of your job, even passionate if you want, but stop rubbing various members of society the wrong way and then expressing your frustration at them over your having done exactly that.

 

Surely you can find some way to offer some detail about how your work affects the big, bad world out there, and how you can tell the difference between a successful week/month at work and a less successful week/month at your job.

 

 

If this were an episode of Three's Company... Larry Dallas would tell someone at The Regal Beagle that he's "in sales"

 

(now of course, in Three's Company, some little hottie would oooooh and aweeeeee at that, and just remain impressed)

 

Larry himself wouldn't impress too many people upon adding further detail of his being a used-car salesman.

 

But if your "research" is something to which anybody in the real world can relate in the smallest way, then make your explanation something to which they can actively relate.

 

News of the PhD is akin to answering the question: "hi, I'm Jessica, what's your name?" with:

 

"Henry Cabbot Henhouse the third"

 

instead of just saying "Hank" and seeming a million times more comfortable with yourself in the process.

[sagetalk]

In both cases, attraction had nothing to do with my smarts, but with the fact that I more or less know (or stumbled upon), the proper/effective way to handle myself around women.

 

Women do have differences, but knowing how to universally act around them will get you more women than anything. It just becomes a matter of figuring out when you can get away with stuff and when you cannot. I do know if you appeal to their intellect, the odds are greatly against you in landing an intellectual girl.

[SadandConfusedWA]

Well this has been very useful discussion. To sum up the key points:

 

• Most men don't care so much about how smart the girl is as long as she has other more desirable qualities
  
• Saying that you have a PhD can come off as bragging
  
• Most people don't know what math actually is
  
• Most people hate math (or what they perceive math to be)
  
• Few men LOVE smart girls, I just have to find those and not get down by the ones that don't
  
• I am going to start watching The Big Bang Theory (as recommended by Lakeside_runner) in the hope of some enlightment
  
• I don't think internet dating is really for me
  

[Devil Dog]

Yeah sorry, I'd make a discreet exit if we met in person. I have no formal schooling past high school, and if the responses in this thread are any indication, someone of your education would have no interest in dating me.

[Skump]

Is this really such a turn off?

 

Personally? No. The ability to complete a math PhD implies considerable intelligence, and I like big brains on a woman.

 

It won't be for anyone you ought to be dating, either.

[JustJoe]

As I said before, you don't seem to be bragging, but you DO seem to be patronizing. From your "key points", you really have drawn the wrong conclusions. The majority of men , who have posted have said that they appreciate intelligent women, but that they think the general run of men, do not. I would like to know how they arrived at this opinion. It's not the Math that's the problem, it's your talking about work that is the problem. Few people like or want to hear what ANYONE does for a living. Shop talk is a guaranteed mood destroyer.

[SadandConfusedWA]

As I said before, you don't seem to be bragging, but you DO seem to be patronizing. From your "key points", you really have drawn the wrong conclusions. The majority of men , who have posted have said that they appreciate intelligent women, but that they think the general run of men, do not. I would like to know how they arrived at this opinion. It's not the Math that's the problem, it's your talking about work that is the problem. Few people like or want to hear what ANYONE does for a living. Shop talk is a guaranteed mood destroyer.

 

Ummm where did you get that I talk about work? When people ask me what do I do, I say I work in research. They ask what kind of research and I summarize in few sentences. Anything less than that and it would appear that I am hiding something. Maybe "most people don't know what math is" does sound patronizing but it is the truth. You completly missed my point. Even while doing PhD, when people asked me how is it going I would pretty much roll my eyes and say "next question".

[SadandConfusedWA]

Question for those guys that watch The Big Bang Theory:

 

I get it that men prefer looks over brains. But what if the girl Penny was a as hot as she is and also a genious physicist? Would the guys in the series be less interested in her?

[JustJoe]

Your last sentence isn't patronizing? If I asked you about your education, or your work, it means I really want to know. If you come back with rolling eyes and a snarky comment, what impression am I going to get? I think that maybe working on your people skills would help you a lot.BTW, this is my opinion, only, and I'm just trying to help, so don't get PO'd at me.. Also, I've dated lawyers, waitresses, teachers, homemakers, and strippers, and have found that their education level isn't as important as their intelligence.

Edited June 15, 2010 by JustJoe