Morals Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 I have two female friends whom I talk to on a semi-regular basis. One is a couple states away, one is in my town. Both have some of the same behavior of veiled desperation. I'm not even sure if that is the correct term but we'll use that for now. Let me explain: One of them was married to an abusive man, and ended up moving out in the middle of the night to a different state. I'm glad she got away from the abusive partner, but whenever she messages me she claims that she is always bored, and always single, doesn't make alot of friends. The second one who lives in the same town as I am in is a little different: Her old husband (whom she remains friends with ---which I will never understand) ended their relationship with a "You are a cold bitch who I would never have kids with". This one is the more complex one. In a recent conversation where I was telling her my roomate (who is female as well) just met a guy on match.com. She replied with a statement of "Good for her! She gives the rest of us hope!" Really? She gives the rest of us hope???? I know for a fact that Girl #2 is seeing a guy right now. Albeit the relationship isn't what she wants it to be, but regardless, I would NEVER go out and say to ANYONE (except you guys ) that another person (for example a guy) gave me hope that I would meet a girl someday. The thing is, I noticed this slightly jaded behavior replaced with a sense of independance. Both women have gone through periods where they claim they don't need relationships, which whether it's true or not, seems to contradict their statements and situations. My question is, why do women who used to be married seem to have such a dismal outlook on life? I myself am dissapointed that I haven't met anyone that I click with, but at the same time I don't find myself jaded and claiming I'm independant. I myself was burned at the end of a 9 month relationship. My only saving grace is that I'm glad that I found out what she really acted like before our relationship really turned serious. I think these two female friends are great people who have very great personalities, yet for some reason or another they tend to continue to have issues with relationships. I feel like they are in a similar boat as me, single, wanting relationships, but unable to admit it. The only difference is, as a guy, I don't tell them, whereas they tend to complain about their relationships, then turn around and say they don't need men. I just don't understand it...
Engadget Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 Well when you invest so much time and effort into something and it doesn't work out, or horribly backfires then I can see why. I am extremely defensive because of my ex, and ready to bolt at the first sign I might get screwed over. So I do understand from that perspective, and marriage just adds a whole new bunch of attachments that make it harder to break away.
Author Morals Posted June 12, 2010 Author Posted June 12, 2010 Well when you invest so much time and effort into something and it doesn't work out, or horribly backfires then I can see why. I am extremely defensive because of my ex, and ready to bolt at the first sign I might get screwed over. So I do understand from that perspective, and marriage just adds a whole new bunch of attachments that make it harder to break away. Oh, marriage is no doubt a powerful thing in life that makes it harder to sever connections. Being someone who has never been in a serious long term relationship (like I said 9 months was my longest), I find it odd that women who were married and now divorced have this idea that "I'm fine being single, I'm a strong independant woman, I don't need a man" but then turn around and say things that reference other women getting dates online as a sort of "hope" for them. My confusion comes from their claim of independance, and their bemoaning of not finding "the one".
sally4sara Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 Oh, marriage is no doubt a powerful thing in life that makes it harder to sever connections. Being someone who has never been in a serious long term relationship (like I said 9 months was my longest), I find it odd that women who were married and now divorced have this idea that "I'm fine being single, I'm a strong independant woman, I don't need a man" but then turn around and say things that reference other women getting dates online as a sort of "hope" for them. My confusion comes from their claim of independance, and their bemoaning of not finding "the one". It is because the condition of their marriage was one where having allowed the person they were married to, to have a detrimental influence on their life. I know for me, my ex husband made life harder to live, manage, and find any measure of success in achieving goals. Compared to being with him - being single, even while having a child in tow, WAS easier without him. But I did know some people who had happy marriages. THEY gave me hope that a LTR could be great.
Author Morals Posted June 13, 2010 Author Posted June 13, 2010 It is because the condition of their marriage was one where having allowed the person they were married to, to have a detrimental influence on their life. I know for me, my ex husband made life harder to live, manage, and find any measure of success in achieving goals. Compared to being with him - being single, even while having a child in tow, WAS easier without him. But I did know some people who had happy marriages. THEY gave me hope that a LTR could be great. Comparatively speaking yes, that is a better situation. BUT... I'm asking about the idea that they say they don't need a man, they are better off now, but then they turn around and are contantly in more bad relationships that don't last long, or they are complaining about being single (YMMV on the version of "complaining"-In this case it's underhanded comments like "She gives the rest of us hope") It's like saying "I don't need a stove because it constantly burns me, I can do fine without it!" but then saying "Well, I need to heat something that doesn't fit in the microwave, why can't I find a good stove that won't burn me?" It just seems very hypocritical to me. That's all I'm saying.
sally4sara Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 Comparatively speaking yes, that is a better situation. BUT... I'm asking about the idea that they say they don't need a man, they are better off now, but then they turn around and are contantly in more bad relationships that don't last long, or they are complaining about being single (YMMV on the version of "complaining"-In this case it's underhanded comments like "She gives the rest of us hope") It's like saying "I don't need a stove because it constantly burns me, I can do fine without it!" but then saying "Well, I need to heat something that doesn't fit in the microwave, why can't I find a good stove that won't burn me?" It just seems very hypocritical to me. That's all I'm saying. Its not hypocritical; its a defense mechanism. The diatribe is used to bolster their confidence every time something happens to reinforce their decision to go it alone. But we are social creatures. We are driven to partner. We always answer the pull with hope and when it goes badly, we look to our initial "be alone!" decision once again.
SouthernSunshine Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 I was in an extremely abusive relationship that lasted 3 years. It took me about 4 years to get my life back, so to speak. I was very isolated for a while, and wasn't able to trust anyone. Now days I've made quite a few friends, and I enjoy socializing again! Exercising is a big stress reliever. I've learned to be content when alone, but most importantly I've learned to love myself.
Author Morals Posted June 13, 2010 Author Posted June 13, 2010 I was in an extremely abusive relationship that lasted 3 years. It took me about 4 years to get my life back, so to speak. I was very isolated for a while, and wasn't able to trust anyone. Now days I've made quite a few friends, and I enjoy socializing again! Exercising is a big stress reliever. I've learned to be content when alone, but most importantly I've learned to love myself. I'm sorry, I respect your decision to be single. I'm glad you got out of the bad relationship... But, I don't buy this whole "love yourself" bullcrap. Loving yourself isn't going to remedy the feelings of being alone. Loving yourself isn't going to hold you when you need to be held, or be there for you in your time of need. I *tolerate* being alone. Heck, I probably enjoy *some* of my alone time yes. But I don't *want* to be alone. I don't think anyone really does!
norajane Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 It's like saying "I don't need a stove because it constantly burns me, I can do fine without it!" but then saying "Well, I need to heat something that doesn't fit in the microwave, why can't I find a good stove that won't burn me?"Maybe it would help to understand if instead of the word "burn" you replace it with "explode". You're underestimating the effects a bad man (abusive) or a bad marriage can have on a person. It's not just a burn. It impacts and explodes your whole life and your sense of well-being because your whole entire life is wrapped up in this person, and then you have to start over and rebuild. So you feel great for no longer having to fear explosions, but then you realize you can't cook at all now...and you want to cook.
Author Morals Posted June 13, 2010 Author Posted June 13, 2010 Maybe it would help to understand if instead of the word "burn" you replace it with "explode". You're underestimating the effects a bad man (abusive) or a bad marriage can have on a person. It's not just a burn. It impacts and explodes your whole life and your sense of well-being because your whole entire life is wrapped up in this person, and then you have to start over and rebuild. So you feel great for no longer having to fear explosions, but then you realize you can't cook at all now...and you want to cook. Exactly!!! I mean I understand what your saying. I can't put myself in those shoes, because (like I said earlier) I have never been in a very long term relationship/marriage. I guess what it boils down to is that being in a bad relationship isn't good. But claiming that one doesn't need a relationship is just as bad. They are two extremes that are both unhealthy IMO.
norajane Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 The thing is you don't "need" a relationship to survive and even be very comfortable. But you might "want" one to be happier. That is not contradictory or hypocritical. And that's what divorced women discover and feel.
hats Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 More often in relationships women tend to depend on men than the other way around. Women expect that a good man will take care of them emotionally, financially, physically. But then when the relationship falls apart those women suddenly feel very vulnerable. They realize that if they'd been more independent from the start they wouldn't feel so bad now being single. That's what they mean where needing and wanting a relationship aren't the same thing.
SouthernSunshine Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 I'm sorry, I respect your decision to be single. I'm glad you got out of the bad relationship... But, I don't buy this whole "love yourself" bullcrap. Loving yourself isn't going to remedy the feelings of being alone. Loving yourself isn't going to hold you when you need to be held, or be there for you in your time of need. I *tolerate* being alone. Heck, I probably enjoy *some* of my alone time yes. But I don't *want* to be alone. I don't think anyone really does! Thanks. I'm not single. I've learned that I don't need a man to be happy, I can be happy by myself. I love myself by refusing to be disrespected or abused.
Engadget Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 Oh, marriage is no doubt a powerful thing in life that makes it harder to sever connections. Being someone who has never been in a serious long term relationship (like I said 9 months was my longest), I find it odd that women who were married and now divorced have this idea that "I'm fine being single, I'm a strong independant woman, I don't need a man" but then turn around and say things that reference other women getting dates online as a sort of "hope" for them. My confusion comes from their claim of independance, and their bemoaning of not finding "the one". I think they're just acting like they're okay with being single, but deep down they're actually lonely.
You'reasian Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 My question is, why do women who used to be married seem to have such a dismal outlook on life? I just don't understand it... Marriage is a powerful relationship and a pivotal arrangement. When marriage doesn't work out, the couples experience emotional, mental and in some cases financial trauma. Marriage takes a long time to occur naturally, but divorce can happen in relatively short time. Divorced persons require time and healing because of the destructive affects of divorce. They need to be able to feel better about themselves and trust the opposite sex, which is why they have a negative outlook on life.
Feelin Frisky Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 To OP: I think you're generalizing based upon a limited personal experience. It's a world not of sameness but instead a world of uniqueness. If I were to generalize in response, I would say, ya never can tell who someone really is. One can observe traits and make conclusions that wind up in infatuation, love, respect. But those are in the mind of the beholder. As a man who has never really healed from a broken heart, I maintain a detachment as a matter of self preservation. Love is a many splendored thing as the song goes but it is really a rose with many thorns that you can't see.
sagetalk Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 People who date/marry abusive/bad people usually get stuck in a cycle of only dating abusive/bad people. That's why many people who complain about not finding a decent guy/girl are so angry. What they don't realize is that it's their own dumb fault the vast majority of the time. The sooner they realize that, the better.
Author Morals Posted June 13, 2010 Author Posted June 13, 2010 People who date/marry abusive/bad people usually get stuck in a cycle of only dating abusive/bad people. That's why many people who complain about not finding a decent guy/girl are so angry. What they don't realize is that it's their own dumb fault the vast majority of the time. The sooner they realize that, the better. I've actually heard this before. Where people who have a bad marriage/bad relationship end up constantly choosing bad partners. While this may be the case, I sincerely hope it is not true for all our sakes! What's their own fault? For not breaking the cycle? How would one even begin to realize they are in a cycle of choosing unhealthy partners in a relationship? I believe that in relationships we tend to have blinders on for our partners. We view their qualities, strengths, and successes with much more glamour then they really are. At the same time we downplay their weaknesses, and negative traits as trivial. I've done this before myself. My problem is how do you view someone as a "natural whole". How do you keep yourself from choosing the wrong person? I ask because my curiosity is getting the better of me. But also, as someone who has never been in a LTR maybe I'm in the same cycle. Albeit, a more casual cycle...but the same cycle nonetheless.
sagetalk Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 1. What's their own fault? For not breaking the cycle? How would one even begin to realize they are in a cycle of choosing unhealthy partners in a relationship? 2. My problem is how do you view someone as a "natural whole". How do you keep yourself from choosing the wrong person? . 1. Yes, for not breaking the cycle. It's dumb to think that every guy/girl in the world is a shallow loser who likes treating people badly. Instead they should realize that they may just be attracted to shallow losers who like treating people badly. 2. I don't know everything, but here are a few things that can help greatly: recognize meaningful patterns in your dating partners and avoid dating people with them.listen to your friends and families advice about a dating partner. If they love you, they will be honest with you. If your family/friends are the kiss your butt type, or don't care type, ask someone you know will shoot straight with you.move slower in relationshipsbegin to ask as much of your partner as they ask of you. If they can't handle that, it speaks volumes about them.
Author Morals Posted June 13, 2010 Author Posted June 13, 2010 1. Yes, for not breaking the cycle. It's dumb to think that every guy/girl in the world is a shallow loser who likes treating people badly. Instead they should realize that they may just be attracted to shallow losers who like treating people badly. 2. I don't know everything, but here are a few things that can help greatly: recognize meaningful patterns in your dating partners and avoid dating people with them.listen to your friends and families advice about a dating partner. If they love you, they will be honest with you. If your family/friends are the kiss your butt type, or don't care type, ask someone you know will shoot straight with you.move slower in relationshipsbegin to ask as much of your partner as they ask of you. If they can't handle that, it speaks volumes about them. #1 is hard to do. It's hard to recognize bad patterns if you don't realize what patterns are bad. #2 Again, is subjective. While your parents and friends care about you, some may give advice that isn't relevant to the situation. #3 True, never go too fast. I guess it's better to move too slow, then too fast. #4 I agree with this 100%. Reciprication is key to relationships.
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