paddington bear Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 Was reading up on a diet book: The Manuel Method (which is not a diet, more a way of reprogramming to brain to want to lose weight). This guy's theory was that despite all his dieting and failing was that his body simply did not want to lose weight, that it had found its 'set point' and no matter what he did, it would stubbornly stay that way, so unless he changed his set point to a lower value, his body would always work at keeping his weight high rather than low. He found a solution to making his body want to feel safe at a lower weight and he dropped a massive amount of weight merely by altering his brain to work with him to lose weight rather than agaisnt him. For some reason it struck me that perhaps there is a parallel as regards dating. I am single, and I want a boyfriend, and have done for a long time. Yet, I just cannot meet anyone (and this is not 'cannot meet anyone' as in having strings of dates and rejecting them all, I can't even get to the date part - and have had a history of falling for unavailable men, which I presume is a way of not getting intimate and not getting hurt (which I inevitably do)). So I wondered rather like the set-point with the above author's weight, it could be that subconsciously I don't actually want a boyfriend and therefore all my actions, words, scents, vibes etc. are actually conspiring against me and that I've no idea it is happening. To put it simply, I think I want love/romance/sex, but my crafty brain has other ideas and will prevent me from getting what I think I want because it thinks it will keep me safe from hurt and harm that way. It makes a weird kind of sense, body language, actions etc play a big role in attracting members of the opposite sex, and if your brain is working against you, you'll simply not give out the right signals. And if this theory makes any sense (I may be totally clutching at straws here "It's not MY fault that I'm terminally single, it's my stupid brain!"), how would one trick your brain into being on board with the finding love thing, how would you make your subconscious mind realise it was safe to embark on relationships/dates and actively help you on your quest instead of impeding your progress?
Scottdmw Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 Sometimes I seriously feel like I'm doing the same thing. I want women who are unavailable. I've even found women who meet every single one of my supposed list of criteria, and after dating them for a while I just lose interest. I don't know if I'm doing it to myself like you say. If so, I guess the bigger problem is I have no idea what to do about it. Scott
txsilkysmoothe Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 I've considered that I may do the same thing. I believe I really do want a boyfriend, but "fear" of being hurt, mislead, or deceived leads me to subconsciously do or say something that causes the man to doubt me and hold back or pull away. This is a fairly recent realization and I'm still not sure if I'm really doing this or not.
lovelydemon Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 My problem is somewhat similar but is also different in a way. I do go on dates and go through the motions of finding a SO, but recently I realized that i don't really want to be in a relationship since I see being in one as all work and no fun. I am pretty sure that i give out plenty of non-verbal signals about how i really feel...so i was thinking if maybe watching LOTS of romantic comedies and reading love stories would help to change my attitude ( they fooled me when I was a teenager lol!) Sort of a negative thinking cleansing diet...
norajane Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 I think it's a fear of intimacy. That if they really got to know you, they would reject you...leading to hurt. So you end up falling for unavailable people and not liking the ones who could actually fall for you and you for them, which would demand intimacy. What to do about it? I've no freaking clue. I guess that's where the whole "love yourself" thing comes in. You have to feel you're "worthy and lovable" before you can believe anyone else would find you so.
norajane Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 My problem is somewhat similar but is also different in a way. I do go on dates and go through the motions of finding a SO, but recently I realized that i don't really want to be in a relationship since I see being in one as all work and no fun. I am pretty sure that i give out plenty of non-verbal signals about how i really feel...so i was thinking if maybe watching LOTS of romantic comedies and reading love stories would help to change my attitude ( they fooled me when I was a teenager lol!) Sort of a negative thinking cleansing diet... And that's the other part of it - fear of commitment, and what a love relationship leads to...more work and taking each other for granted and future boredom, with little fun. I think that's very much a perception thing, and, frankly, it is very easy to develop that perception considering how many people have troubled relationships, sexless marriages, mid-life crises, the feeling of "is this it?". It should be easier to change your feelings on this, maybe once you find a person with whom it IS easy and fun to be in a relationship with them. Kinda like finding a best friend you have chemistry with. I hope so, at least.
Lovelybird Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 I think it's a fear of intimacy. That if they really got to know you, they would reject you...leading to hurt. So you end up falling for unavailable people and not liking the ones who could actually fall for you and you for them, which would demand intimacy. What to do about it? I've no freaking clue. I guess that's where the whole "love yourself" thing comes in. You have to feel you're "worthy and lovable" before you can believe anyone else would find you so. This is so true. If you cannot even accept yourself, you won't expect others to accept yourself either. Plus the anxiety of waiting for others to judge your value according to their actions towards you....... If a person doesn't have solid self love, romantic relationship isn't a pleasant experience
superchick Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 I, too, tend to choose those unavailable men however I'm starting to recognize my pattern. Those who act hot&heavy in the beginning will eventually leave. Those who act the other way around seem to be a good boyfriend material. I dated a guy, amazing chemistry, he was pretty good at chasing for the first two weeks and then it stopped. I, of course, got used to him chasing me and when he stopped I began doing the chase . I don't blame him for anything. I blame myself for being a desperate doormat but I finally came to my senses. Now, I've been dating a guy for the past two months and things are going SLOOOOW. He didn't approach me in a hot&heavy manner, ha wasn't calling, texting nor emailing multiple times a day. We didn't really kiss until our third date. My point is, while I am extremely attracted to those hot&heavy guys, I know they're not good for me. Those who seem NOT to act that way are a better candidate for a boyfriend. The guy I'm dating now wasn't exactly my type when we first met but I'm warming up to him and I'm noticing really nice things about him. As Albert Einstein said "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
summerl0vesyou Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 Was reading up on a diet book: The Manuel Method (which is not a diet, more a way of reprogramming to brain to want to lose weight). This guy's theory was that despite all his dieting and failing was that his body simply did not want to lose weight, that it had found its 'set point' and no matter what he did, it would stubbornly stay that way, so unless he changed his set point to a lower value, his body would always work at keeping his weight high rather than low. He found a solution to making his body want to feel safe at a lower weight and he dropped a massive amount of weight merely by altering his brain to work with him to lose weight rather than agaisnt him. For some reason it struck me that perhaps there is a parallel as regards dating. I am single, and I want a boyfriend, and have done for a long time. Yet, I just cannot meet anyone (and this is not 'cannot meet anyone' as in having strings of dates and rejecting them all, I can't even get to the date part - and have had a history of falling for unavailable men, which I presume is a way of not getting intimate and not getting hurt (which I inevitably do)). So I wondered rather like the set-point with the above author's weight, it could be that subconsciously I don't actually want a boyfriend and therefore all my actions, words, scents, vibes etc. are actually conspiring against me and that I've no idea it is happening. To put it simply, I think I want love/romance/sex, but my crafty brain has other ideas and will prevent me from getting what I think I want because it thinks it will keep me safe from hurt and harm that way. It makes a weird kind of sense, body language, actions etc play a big role in attracting members of the opposite sex, and if your brain is working against you, you'll simply not give out the right signals. And if this theory makes any sense (I may be totally clutching at straws here "It's not MY fault that I'm terminally single, it's my stupid brain!"), how would one trick your brain into being on board with the finding love thing, how would you make your subconscious mind realise it was safe to embark on relationships/dates and actively help you on your quest instead of impeding your progress? Ive actually gone to counseling for this exact reason. I sabotage all of my relationships. I can get a guy to be with me and even fall for me, but once it gets to that point I start acting really weird and push them away. i dont even mean to in a lot of ways, and i cry and cry about it cuz i dont like when people go away.....but i think im more scared of what could happen if they stayed, forever.. So yes....you absolutely can sabotage yourself without even realizing it. Do i really want love? I do, but...im scared. Maybe you're scared too, of someone actually wanting to be with you...cuz it opens a whole new can of worms, its the unknown. idk what you can do to change it but I would start by recognizing the problem is fear, and then tackle that fear itself
Author paddington bear Posted June 13, 2010 Author Posted June 13, 2010 Thanks for the replies. I was thinking this made a strange sort of sense. Thing is, I did in my 20's read lots of dating guides etc. and while helpful in some sense, I think if my theory posted here is true, none of that advice will help if your subconscious mind does not want you to be in a relationship. You can go to the right places, dress well, be a sparkling conversationalist, but be overlooked as a potential girlfriend/boyfriend if your mind is not triggered into being supportive of your aims. So, from your replies the main issues seem to be: Fear - of being hurt - of being found out to not be as loveable as the person thought you were - of letting someone see the true you Choosing inappropriate/emotionally unavailable people to fall for - going for the same type over and over again and always getting hurt, thus keeping the cycle going. You don't want to be hurt again, so you unconsciously go for someone who cannot love you as a form of protection and then get hurt again because they don't love you Ability to love and accept oneself Skewed beliefs as to what a relationship is - dull, boring, hard work, will end in divorce, will hurt me The question is how does one change these things? For example, I see relationships/dating as a form of mirror. Someone you are attracted to is attracted back to you. This makes you feel good about yourself, raises your self-esteem. When that mirror is not there, it is hard to feel loveable, because no one does love you. How do you love yourself without needing the mirror of someone else reminding you that you are loveable. I've noticed the unavailable thing in me and now have a close eye on myself. Since then I actually didn't turn down an available man who wanted me, and did turn down a flaky guy who was blowing hot and cold, so that is progress - and partly just through awareness of the pattern. Skewed beliefs as to what a relationship is or will be I guess can be changed by only focusing on relationships that are not like that. To take note of the good relationships your friends and family have and stop focusing on the bad ones that feed your belief that all relationships will somehow fall below expectations. I don't know how to get over the fear. This is not something that I'm unaware of. I am s**t scared of being hurt again, but I've dived in nonetheless. A case of 'feel the fear but do it anyway'? Anyway, that is my tuppence worth. If I am without realising it sabotaging my chances to meet someone to love, I want to figure out how to stop sabotaging myself. I guess some sort of NLP tricks might work too.
norajane Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 Ive actually gone to counseling for this exact reason. I sabotage all of my relationships. I can get a guy to be with me and even fall for me, but once it gets to that point I start acting really weird and push them away. i dont even mean to in a lot of ways, and i cry and cry about it cuz i dont like when people go away.....but i think im more scared of what could happen if they stayed, forever.. So yes....you absolutely can sabotage yourself without even realizing it. Do i really want love? I do, but...im scared. Maybe you're scared too, of someone actually wanting to be with you...cuz it opens a whole new can of worms, its the unknown. idk what you can do to change it but I would start by recognizing the problem is fear, and then tackle that fear itself What did your counselor say? Anything on how to approach a change?
westrock Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 (edited) And if this theory makes any sense (I may be totally clutching at straws here "It's not MY fault that I'm terminally single, it's my stupid brain!"), how would one trick your brain into being on board with the finding love thing, how would you make your subconscious mind realise it was safe to embark on relationships/dates and actively help you on your quest instead of impeding your progress? The theory makes total sense. What you are describing sounds like a concept called Imago. Read up on Imago at wiwikpedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imago_Therapy Basically the theory says that our subconscious brain has an image of our selves (the Imago) that formed when we were a child. As we encounter experiences as adults, our subconscious brain responds according to the Imago of ourselves. The Imago was partially created as a result of negative experiences we had as children. What happened when we were young is that we encountered experiences that as a child our brain misinterpreted and deemed dangerous. For example, these can be simple things such as our parents did not respond to our crying fast enough. As a child, we may have incorrectly concluded that our parents have abandoned us because they are not responding to our crying. This delayed response from our parents became imprinted on our subconscious as "delayed response = danger". Each child has different experiences and came to different conclusions. We may have misinterpretted over attention from our parents as "over protective parents = smothering". The possibilities are endless. As an adult, we can objectively say that we likely misinterpreted what happened but as a child we misinterpret experiences out of proportion and they get imprinted on our Imago. When we grow up, our subconscious wants to heal those "emotional wounds" we experienced as a child so we find ourselves attracted to people who recreate similar experiences that our Imago deemed as dangerous so that the subconsious can heal the "wound". For example, as an adult, we may be attracted to someone who is always busy and unavailable.. but subconsicously what we may be really attracted to is that as a result of their lifestyle maybe they are also slow to respond to our telephone calls or emails. We justify it by saying they are busy and independent, but this experience triggers our subconscious to signal "delayed response = danger" similar to what we experienced as a child and this triggers our adrenalin flowing. As an adult, we know we are not in any real "danger", and we misinterpret the adrenalin induced feelings as "chemistry" or "spark" or "butterflies". If we were with someone who responded to our calls or emails quickly, there is no adenalin induced danger signal from the subconscious and we conclude we have no attraction even if we know such a person would make actually make a great partner. The key to re-writing the Imago is awareness that our subsconsious is attracting us to certain people because of our emotional wounds and the butterflies we are feeling may be false signals. By consciously looking at the qualities of the people we are atrracted to, we can recognize that they represent unhealed emotional wounds from our past. As adults, we can then look back and determine that we misinterpretted the conclusions we made as a child and instead of responding according to our child based experiences, we can deal with situations from an adult perspective. Essentially we are healing ourselves. This is easier said than done. This requires a lot of self-reflection and willingness to accept ourselves for who we are. Using the above example, we may be better able to assess that being attracted to an unavailable person may induce "butterflies" but really the person who responds to us in a timely manner is actually a more attractive person from an adult perspective, or maybe the person who always calls us back is not actually smothering us. Edited June 13, 2010 by westrock
Author paddington bear Posted June 13, 2010 Author Posted June 13, 2010 Thanks for that, that's very interesting. I guess I was also suggesting due to what you (so clearly and beautifully explained) is that perhaps when we meet people who fulfill this Imago imprint is when our body and mind 'allow' us to behave in an attractive way and thus we attract e.g. the emotionally unavailable to us, whereas when we meet someone more suitable it works in the opposite way and thus even if you consciously want someone decent and trustworthy you will never attract them as you give out all the wrong signals. In any case, it is the re-wiring aspect that I'm interested in and going to do more research on. My therapist said something interesting once, in relation to something else entirely, which was to distance my mind from my emotions. To look at yourself from outside and in a neutral way, without judging and to simply observe "Oh look at me getting all excited about a no-good, emotionally unstable person". That way I guess you train yourself not to let your emotions take over totally. The neutral observer (you yourself) is there reminding you of what actually is the case which I presume helps prevent you falling into repeat patterns.
Author paddington bear Posted June 13, 2010 Author Posted June 13, 2010 FoxMulder, you are a very bitter man from any post I've seen. Yes, women do not want boyfriends, that's why there are lots of women with boyfriends. Women don't want marriage and commitment, that's why there are lots of women in married, commited relationships. What I guess you mean to say is, women do not want you as a boyfriend, so now you are bitter and you hate all womenkind because none of them want you. No men want me right now. I'm not asked out on dates. I am totally ignored. Do I hate all men? Do I say 'all men don't want girlfriends'? Nope. They just don't want me right now. We all have runs of good times and bad times. I'm in a bad time right now. If you hate women, no woman will want you because you will radiate your hatred and bitterness right back at them. We don't always get what we want. Sometimes it's your fault, sometimes it's someone else's fault. Sometimes it's no one's fault. Carry on being bitter by all means, but if you're going through a bad time regarding members of the opposite sex, it sure isn't going to help your chances having that attitude.
Anela Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 Your fooling youself if you think you want a boyfriend. Women do NOT want boyfriends, women want to be single. Where on earth do you get that idea??
westrock Posted June 14, 2010 Posted June 14, 2010 distance my mind from my emotions. To look at yourself from outside and in a neutral way, without judging and to simply observe "Oh look at me getting all excited about a no-good, emotionally unstable person". That way I guess you train yourself not to let your emotions take over totally. The neutral observer (you yourself) is there reminding you of what actually is the case which I presume helps prevent you falling into repeat patterns. Yes, this is a good technique for re-wiring the subconsious brain's reactions to situations. By observing as a neutral observer we give time for our conscious brain to reassess the situation more accurately. With the explanation I gave in my previous post, we can also understand the "why" we are getting all excited in a particular situation. This all helps in the process of healing our emotional wounds. By working on healing our emotional wounds, I also believe that we are better able to identify healthier relationships and eventually we begin to attract healthier relationships into our lives.
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