Ruby Slippers Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 I am staying off the battlefield right now, and the stories my dating friends tell me make me very glad I am. It sounds like men have gotten very lazy about dating and sex. Probably too heavily anesthetized from all the porn. But the only thing that's going to discourage the laziness is if women stop putting up with it.
Woggle Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 I am staying off the battlefield right now, and the stories my dating friends tell me make me very glad I am. It sounds like men have gotten very lazy about dating and sex. Probably too heavily anesthetized from all the porn. But the only thing that's going to discourage the laziness is if women stop putting up with it. Do you really think it is only about porn?
somedude81 Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 Because the gripe of the evening was that they wanted to be pursued and apparently the men they have run across are the ones who buy into this "be indifferent" nonsense. So when the guys would act indifferent they would next him only to have the guys get all up in arms and not understand why. Hmm, there are two different schools of thought here. The general idea for the man side is to only contact the woman to make dates when things are still in the very early stages of the "relationship." Being too available is a bad thing. Women have also said that they want to chase as well. There are different factors that determine the level of contact that should happen in those beginning stages. One of the funniest stories of the night. My friend told a guy "I don't like to text. Please don't text me." but he kept texting her anyway so she picked up the phone to call him. He didn't answer. But texted back his reply to her voicemail. Seriously!?! LOL, yeah that's just stupid.
tigressA Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 One of the funniest stories of the night. My friend told a guy "I don't like to text. Please don't text me." but he kept texting her anyway so she picked up the phone to call him. He didn't answer. But texted back his reply to her voicemail. Seriously!?! Ugh, that would've totally pissed me off! How lazy some people can be!
Author Crazy Magnet Posted June 12, 2010 Author Posted June 12, 2010 Hmm, there are two different schools of thought here. The general idea for the man side is to only contact the woman to make dates when things are still in the very early stages of the "relationship." Being too available is a bad thing. Women have also said that they want to chase as well. There are different factors that determine the level of contact that should happen in those beginning stages. So what determines the level for you? What do you do after 1 date vs. 3 dates vs 5 dates? I should have asked my friends if they feel like there is even anything to chase. I'm not sure I'd go after a guy that called me once a week for 10 minutes to set up dinner on the weekend. I'd probably think "this one doesn't have enough time for me/isn't all that keen on seeing me/has too many other options on the plate to bother with." If he threw in some emails or like one other random call or coffee get together during the week too I'd be much more apt to chase back.
Woggle Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 If he ahs too many options that means a woman will want him more. Women usually like to feel they are in competition with something else for a man's time.
Ruby Slippers Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 Do you really think it is only about porn? No, but I think it is a factor. If porn were not so easily available, men would have to get their butts out of the chair and leave the house to get some.
Author Crazy Magnet Posted June 12, 2010 Author Posted June 12, 2010 If he ahs too many options that means a woman will want him more. Women usually like to feel they are in competition with something else for a man's time. Unless he encounters me or my friends. lol I think we all expect guy's to be dating other women too, but we didn't think they should be dating so many that they don't have time to get to know all of them properly.
Jersey Shortie Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 It sounds like men have gotten very lazy about dating and sex. Probably too heavily anesthetized from all the porn. But the only thing that's going to discourage the laziness is if women stop putting up with it. I didn't want to be the one to say it but I agree that porn also plays a part in it. I do think alot of men are just plain lazy today. But not just porn, things like facebook, texting, even online dating I think have provided a very convinent easy way to meet surface needs but fail to meet any true deep ones. Hence the still apparent disatisfaction both men and women experience. I don't want to spend my life on the computer. And I want a man that doesn't want to spend his time on his computer either. Whether that's porn or facebook. Men always pursuing had it's place in the past when women were submissive in society perhaps, but not now. Now women work and everything, they need to pursue just as much. I wouldn't be with the girl I am now if she hadn't pursued me, because I wasn't looking to meet anyone. Sorry I totally disagree that women *need* to start pursuing just because they work. You can't equate how women want to be treated in the busines world to how women want to be treated by a romantic partner. And it's totally unfair because no man here wants to be treated the same in teh business world as his female partner would treat him. So expecting women to want that is totally unfair. And just because a woman wants to be pursued, that doesn't mean she wants to be treated 2nd class. It's this kind of thinking in society today that is screwed up Engadet. Let me be clear, women don't want to be treated 100% the same in the business world that they want to be treated in their romantic relationships. This does not make owmen wrong or hypocritical or want to be treated like 2nd class citizens. It makes them women. And alot of men sure want to strong leaders but they don't want to do the things that make women see them that way. I am glad your girl pursued you and it worked out. But for me, no offense but I don't want to be with a man I have to chase after. That's not me. That's not the kind of relationship I want.
tigressA Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 Unless he encounters me or my friends. lol I think we all expect guy's to be dating other women too, but we didn't think they should be dating so many that they don't have time to get to know all of them properly. Precisely. I like when a guy initiates contact early on for reasons other than to set up dates. It really makes clear that he's interested and that he's thinking of me. Of course, I reciprocate by initiating contact between dates as well, to show my interest. IMO, if you want to talk to the person, or let them know you're thinking of them, just do it! Cut that stupid "wait (insert # of days here) ****!"
Mr White Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 A "mature" woman wants a man, "whom she is highly attracted to," to pursue her. This advice is not meant for every man and does not speak for every woman. If you pursue a woman who is luke warm to you, she will think you are creepy. A woman who likes a man will laugh at his jokes A woman who does not really know or dislikes a man will scowl at his. Certain advice works if and only if the woman is interested and or attracted to the man in question. Absolutely, and in those case it absolutely does NOT matter what the guy in question will do (barring some absurdly ridiculous blunder) - she'll be all over it no matter what...
Woggle Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 No, but I think it is a factor. If porn were not so easily available, men would have to get their butts out of the chair and leave the house to get some. Do you ever wonder why so many men would rather look at porn than deal with a real woman these days? Women play their part in the dating issues of today as well.
paddington bear Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 I actually think it could be an age-issue here. Like, I would put up with all sorts of shoddy behaviour - wanting to be low-maintanance and 'cool' - rather than putting my little foot down, in my 20's and now I can't waste my time with no-hope cases, or rather I've learned some of the signs of what is to come from how the relationship initially started. I'm guessing your friends have all 'been there, done that' and have rightly or wrongly come to the conclusion that if e.g. a guy makes a first coffee date and can't even keep to that, that this kind of flaky behaviour will only continue down the line. The last guy that I was seeing was so refreshing. I'd had years of guys doing the 'I'm not sure, I'm not ready, I'm still hooked on my ex' the whole 'I'll call you' thing, and then not calling and just when you realise that you won't hear from them, they reappear from nowhere and confuse you again and so on and on. And this last guy called to my apartment door using the ruse of asking me about a utility bill. Within a few minutes he asked if I had a boyfriend, asked for my number and set a date. Then told me that he'd seen me for months and had been working up the courage to ask me out and that I was beautiful and wonderful etc etc. The fact that he'd had a crush and was nervous about rejection but still took the bull by the horns, I found impressive and brave of him and I really liked that he just put it on the line. I really like you. Are you single? Can I see you again? When and where? How could I resist. It is flattering to be genuinely wanted. After experiencing this kind of candid and flattering honesty, it is hard to go back to wishy-washy, I'm not sure what I want, mixed signals, can't even be bothered to pick up the phone guys (not that I've even had them recently!). Actions speak louder than words. However, I would still give a guy a chance if he asked me for coffee and cancelled - sometimes other things do genuinely get in the way and it's not all about you. However, if he did it the second time, then that would be the end of it for me and he'd be labelled as not interested and flaky, but keeping his foot in the door and me as a second best option.
that girl Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 I think a lot of the dating advice out there for men is destructive to their happiness. Sane women do not want game playing and most men want to date sane women. Part of the problem is that most men have gone after a woman who had no interest in them. Rather than realizing she just wasn't interested, he thinks he was too avaliable. So the next woman he likes, who genuinely returns his interest, is treated to loads of game playing. And because she likes him, she put up with it for awhile before things fall apart. Guy now thinks game playing is the answer, even though he could have had a happier rekationship with out the game playing. And the growth of texting and iming is part of the problem. Every woman I know has had a guy who pulled that but never committed to a date (often even if she asked) or wouldn't stick to them. Some of these guys probably just weren't interested, but some of them were probably just dumb. As for the when to call thing, it is one thing to not contact between the first and second date, but as you get into a relationship it makes a guy seem uninterested in anything but sex if he only gets in touch to schedule a once a week date. If he ahs too many options that means a woman will want him more. Women usually like to feel they are in competition with something else for a man's time. I really don't think this is true. I think women vary on how much they care if the guy they are seeing is dating others and it is always important to have your own life, but most women will give up on a man who doesn't seem like he has room in his life for a woman or who seems like he might be a player.
AD1980 Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 (edited) Of course women want to be wooed..Must feel nice to do no work and have guys do all the work while u get to choose which one u want and the guys are waiting thinking does she even want anyhting to do with me,then if guys do not do that u can claim hes not a real man and call him names..the view from that soapbox must be nice.. Women seem to want a guy to think their the most beautiful wonderful funny interesting person in the world within minutes of meeting them and without even knowing them which is insane and unrealistic.. Besides isnt that kind of desperate and creepy in a way to do that to someobdy you hardly know and putting you on a pedestal which women claim they dont like? Nobody should be wooed right away thats when both people should decide wheter that other person is worth being wooed" Edited June 12, 2010 by AD1980
sweetjasmine Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 Unless he encounters me or my friends. lol I think we all expect guy's to be dating other women too, but we didn't think they should be dating so many that they don't have time to get to know all of them properly. I'm like them, too, and I'm in my 20s. I don't like stupid "wait X days before calling" games and calculated moves. If I'm interested in someone and make it clear and they don't respond to it, it's a waste of my time to keep going. And I don't want someone with "too many options" because it's "competition." Reading this freaking board makes me feel like I'm the only woman on earth who doesn't find a man more attractive if he happens to have lots of women pursuing him.
Stockalone Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 It sounds like men have gotten very lazy about dating and sex. Probably too heavily anesthetized from all the porn. But the only thing that's going to discourage the laziness is if women stop putting up with it. I wouldn't be surprised if men these days are lazier (in terms of wooing women) than previous generations. It is possible that porn has had some role in this, but IMO, the availability of casual sex is something that is far more relevant than porn. The reason I say this, is because so far, I haven't met a man who thinks that masturbating to porn is an achievement. In contrast, I've known plenty of men who just want NSA sex and consider getting laid as an achievement. They simply do (woo) as much as they have to in order to find sufficiently good-looking women who will have sex with them. As long as they achieve their goal (getting laid), I very much doubt that they will change. In addition, I also think that being lazy and still achieving a goal can cause people (not only men) to apply the same lazy approach in other areas. If a guy can be lazy and still get laid, why not multi-date (increasing his chances) and see if minimal wooing and being lazy is also good enough to get him into a relationship with one of those women (if he wants a relationship). Which is why I agree with the last part of your post. If women want to be courted, they have to stop putting up with the laziness.
Chicago_Guy Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 If he ahs too many options that means a woman will want him more. Women usually like to feel they are in competition with something else for a man's time. That actually could be part of the reason why the OP's friends liked those guys in the first place, even if they would never admit it. If the guys had called more often, maybe her friends would have thought that those guys were too "needy."
Engadget Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 That actually could be part of the reason why the OP's friends liked those guys in the first place, even if they would never admit it. If the guys had called more often, maybe her friends would have thought that those guys were too "needy." It's like walking a tightrope, it really is. Call too late, not interested. Call too soon, too desperate and needy. So if you don't hit the sweet spot, you're screwed. Women won't admit this, but it's absolutely true.
D-Lish Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 I am over 30- and I like it when guy uses a balance of interest and restraint. I get turned off if someone I meet comes on too strong right away, I just get scared off. I think it depends on whether or not your friends have been divorced. I know this may sound weird, but sometimes I think when women say they want to be pursued, it's about wanting to be pursued by a guy they are totally into that isn't the type of guy that would pursue a woman. I don't know if that makes sense.
Woggle Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 That actually could be part of the reason why the OP's friends liked those guys in the first place, even if they would never admit it. If the guys had called more often, maybe her friends would have thought that those guys were too "needy." Exactly. If these men actually did persue these same women would be turned off and want to run the other way.
Green Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 To answer the original post.... HAVE YOU READ ANY OF MY ADVICE TO MEN? I always tell them to persue. Butttt I also tell them to avoid internet dating as you will have to deal with women like your friends. The other huge gripe issue of the night was texting. I believe all of us said we hate it when guy's try to have conversations through text in the initial phases of dating. That could be an age thing too though. I'm in my twenties and a lot of girls txt non stop so I am going to have to say it is an age thing. I personaly find txting anoying and time consuming and for the most part refuse to do it.
Author Crazy Magnet Posted June 13, 2010 Author Posted June 13, 2010 To answer the original post.... HAVE YOU READ ANY OF MY ADVICE TO MEN? I always tell them to persue. Butttt I also tell them to avoid internet dating as you will have to deal with women like your friends. I'm in my twenties and a lot of girls txt non stop so I am going to have to say it is an age thing. I personaly find txting anoying and time consuming and for the most part refuse to do it. My friends who ditch flakes and guys who won't do anything but text rather than call and who don't bother to pursue? How is that a bad thing?? If men don't act like that then they would have more success. I have read your advice and yes, you tell me to go for it. But too many others on here tell the guy to not act interested and to wait X number of days to calls and whatnot. I feel like we're telling people to go shoot themselves in the foot. People should follow what feels natural and not play these kinds of games IMO.
phineas Posted June 14, 2010 Posted June 14, 2010 I think you need to define pursue. After a 1st date with a woman I ask her when is a good time to call her. Then I call her. If she doesn't get back to me I move on. Women who are interested call me back. I don't care much for texting but some women are texting fiends so I will fire off a friendly "hey, what's up" text to those who do like to text. But if they don't respond I don't send more. Basically, i'm not going to waste my time on a woman that can't be bothered to call me back. Honestly, your friends sound like a bunch of princesses that want men to shower them with attention for no reason I can comprehend. If they were having sex with the men then yes I can see how they would expect the men to call more. But if it's just dateing? Good luck.
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