Author Silly_Girl Posted June 11, 2010 Author Posted June 11, 2010 -------------------- SG .. Of course they seem like nice men - and excepting for using the OW and cheating on their wives .. maybe they are nice men - on the surface. But the bottom line is .. the Relationship itself - is what is the poison - and it wastes your life .. Time wasted on a relationship that isn't going anywhere - or Isn't meant to be .. is time too long .. A relationship that makes a woman feel less than what she is - is a waste.. When I was to be married, both of us were on the same accord - we were happy and high .. That is how it Should be when it is right.. Yes, he is essentially a nice, hardworking man. He lost his way. He never dealt with how he felt when his wife cheated and then left him. He just plodded on, didn't tell anyone, wrongly felt ashamed and embarrassed, blamed himself. He was grateful when she came back, because life was back to 'normal' on the surface. They're not a 'unit' in the way I personally think of marriage and she still sees her ex-lover and confides in him, and not xMM. She's very shy and often goes quiet when she's distressed and xMM got used to doing as much as possible to placate and comfort, never really addressing how things affected him/them, just didn't like her being so upset and hated the thick atmosphere in those times. He felt he was not being fair to her to demand she stop seeing this man, because the friendship was so important to her, but through our conversations it became clear that very far below the surface he had found it upsetting and unfair. Only by then he didn't care because he had me. Between them, as they approach their 10th wedding anniversary they feel 'it's an achievement they've made it that far' and that despite the relationship being unconventional, they're still together. As though being together is more important than being happy, fulfilled, intimate etc. It's as thought they're 'in it together' as though they're going to suffer through this, no matter what it takes. He's lived a very solitary existence for a long time and that changed, I guess, when we met. Some of the facts about his relationship I was able to verify, I didn't just swallow everything. In fact, after 8 years with a man who did nothing BUT lie, I was pretty alert and xMM and I had some very candid chats. In particular about how his wife had gone from indifferent and maybe hostile, to more affectionate and considerate during the period of our affair. I found that difficult and he definitely didn't need to share those types of things. It's such a sad situation, but I saw his tears and hurt and confusion, about us, me, what to do. I believe he meant the things he said, when he said them, especially to have told his wife he was leaving, that was the biggest thing he's ever done in his life. But it was obviously too big a deal, at the end of the day, and it's sad that they are in that position, but it doesn't mean I should contribute to it, or suffer too. But yes, Califnan, fundamentally cheating is wrong, all round, unhealthy, and that's why it couldn't carry on. And yes, it should be as you describe, when it's right, that natural high. That's what confused me, I'd never had such a feeling about someone and felt so perfect with someone in every way. But, as I said many times about my previous relationship, 'sometimes, Love just isn't enough'.
Author Silly_Girl Posted June 11, 2010 Author Posted June 11, 2010 You are definitelt not alone. I did for the longest time. He encouraged me to believe it and I think he even believed it on some level. Dont hook yourself on that. In a few (very few) cases it does happen. But continuing to believe it doesnt make it happen and it keeps you stuck on some level. You are doing great. Take good care Do you mind if I ask how long you 'hoped' for? When did you start to accept/realise that it wasn't going to happen. It's definitely something I've learnt from being here... that it's incredibly unlikely he'll leave his wife.
jj33 Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 (edited) Two and a half years. When we were together I never expected him to leave because he said he never could. After it was over he started talking about why he didnt feel it was a good time to leave (who asked) and saying he knew I expected him to leave (I didnt) and it became apparent to me that he wanted me to push him to leave (I wouldnt do that its not my marriage). Then over time he would make comments from time to time out of the blue about leaving or why he couldnt leave (again who asked?) But as much as I never went back to the A, all of that kept hope alive somewhere in the far reaches of my heart. By last summer the hope was not the same hope it had been, it was tainted by his azzclown behavior. By this spring I realized that even if he left I no longer wanted him. He had put me through too much. That being said as recently as a month ago HE still thought that the "dream" was alive. I think it suited him to think that. Something to occupy his idle thoughts on a rainy spring day, mmm maybe someday I will grow a pair and we will walk off into the sunset. And he liked knowing that there was someone out there who thought the world of him and actually gave a **** about him. I wish him well and hope he and his W find a way to be happy within their marriage but I no longer hope for or want a future with him. Anyone who could behave the way he behaved towards me is not someone I want to grow old with. Emotional abuse is insidious. You dont realize sometimes that the bad behavior is abusive that someone who you know loves you is undermining you and eating away at your confidence for their own twisted reasons. Love is not enough. The other person needs to value you and give you the respect that you deserve, not simply love you in some amorphous way deep in the far reaches of their heart. Im not saying the person you were involved with was emotionally abusive towards you, but that was my experience. I freeze now at the thought of seeing him. It makes me almost nauseous. The pain and hurt he caused me with his behavior was so unecessary. I used to write it off as his way of coping with the situatoin and it was but it was wrong. Edited June 11, 2010 by jj33
Author Silly_Girl Posted June 11, 2010 Author Posted June 11, 2010 Wow, even a month ago he was still talking in that way? Harsh. On both of you I guess... Great that you never went back to the A, and that you don't feel that longing now, but I suppose it can be a long (valuable) process. 'Grow a pair', yes. That sounds familiar!!! "The pain and hurt he caused me with his behavior was so unecessary. I used to write it off as his way of coping with the situatoin and it was but it was wrong." That's so true. So true...
jj33 Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 The other thing is YOU have to stop contacting him. It does NOTHING to change his decision with regard to whether he will leave. All it does is to satisfy him that you are still "an option". If he wants to leave he will leave. Whether he leaves has a lot less to do with you and a lot more to do with the actual state of his marriage and his feelings towards ending that. Go total NC. You dont work with him so there is no reason for you to speak to him. Now you have to say he is a married man, I dont want to be the OW. If he leaves and is single he will contact me and then we can see if there is a basis for a real relationship if I am still single and I still want him. You are a free agent now as is he (much as one wouldnt normally think so based on the fact that he is married) This is not a competition between you and his wife and family. I know its hard but you will get through this. Big hugs
jj33 Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 (edited) It wasnt that he was talking about leaving a month ago (tho he was alluding to it 5 months ago by speakin in explicit terms about his finances for the first time ever and then denying he meant anything by it) It was that he was treating me as if he had a say in and a stake in my business and my life which I interpreted to mean that he was still "in it" because that is not how you treat a colleague. Looking back now I can see that I read a lot into things and yes his behavior was very misleading and very inconsistent but still if a man really wants to be with you, he takes action. You dont need to read smoke signals or interpret tea leaves or as I did read bad behavior as his way of coping with his frustration with his undying love for you. Maybe it is but who cares? Thats not going to keep you warm at night and it only causes pain and heartache It was hell... and I did it to myself because I wasnt able to give up the dream... and that is not like me. I am decisive impulsive and under normal circumstances would have been over this in a month or two at most Edited June 11, 2010 by jj33
Author Silly_Girl Posted June 11, 2010 Author Posted June 11, 2010 Looking back now I can see that I read a lot into things and yes his behavior was very misleading and very inconsistent but still if a man really wants to be with you, he takes action. You dont need to read smoke signals or interpret tea leaves or as I did read bad behavior as his way of coping with his frustration with his undying love for you. Maybe it is but who cares? Thats not going to keep you warm at night and it only causes pain and heartache You're right. I don't doubt the sincerity of my guy's feelings, but that's different to actions. When he went quiet on me my friends were furious on my behalf and demanded I promise to never speak to him again, but I half 'understood' why he was doing what he was doing. But it wasn't good enough. And I told him so in my email!! Told him it was a disgusting way to treat another person and that I'd never have done that to him, which he knows is true. I suppose the unusual circumstances of the relationship meant I was more tolerant than I would otherwise have been, and that probably bought him more time, from me, than would have happened in a more traditional set-up. Presumably the same for some others as there's so many of these R's that have had an unhappy ending but have gone on for such a very long time.
jj33 Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 The lesson learned here for me and perhaps you is there is no reason to "understand" when someone behaves badly. Once you take that tosh from someone you set a precedent and the rubbish behavior keeps on coming because oh darling its ok i understand... Never again
Author Silly_Girl Posted June 11, 2010 Author Posted June 11, 2010 The lesson learned here for me and perhaps you is there is no reason to "understand" when someone behaves badly. Once you take that tosh from someone you set a precedent and the rubbish behavior keeps on coming because oh darling its ok i understand... Never again Yes, I think (this sounds so naive) that because 'it's because he loves me soooo much, he can't function, he can't.....'. Whatever. It was romantic and gushy and lovely, and all part of the 'journey'. But it's wrong and I definitely need more. When it happened once I was happy to put it down to the situation (it was sure as hell bringing out the worst in me!) but a second time isn't funny... And it kept knocking around in my head that people can only treat you how you let them, and looking back I see I set myself up pretty darn well and although I don't believe his actions were pre-meditated/intentional in that way, at times I think I invited some of that I put up with and am working so hard to learn some lessons from how I behaved and felt through this. So glad my emotional investment was short!!!!
silverplanets Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 <snip> By last summer the hope was not the same hope it had been, it was tainted by his azzclown behavior. By this spring I realized that even if he left I no longer wanted him. He had put me through too much. That being said as recently as a month ago HE still thought that the "dream" was alive. I think it suited him to think that. Something to occupy his idle thoughts on a rainy spring day, mmm maybe someday I will grow a pair and we will walk off into the sunset. And he liked knowing that there was someone out there who thought the world of him and actually gave a **** about him. <snip> jj - this I agree with utterly from my own experience. It went on for enough years that even I spotted the pattern, xMW would be feeling low/bored/demotivated/not listened to by her H/<insert any normal life issue here) and guess who'd start getting emails .... Dreaming about an "ideal" future allowed her to avoid dealing something that was happening right now ... And to the second bolded part I even more strongly agree ... how great must have been to have this on-tap resource who she could turn to for a dose of validation ("I am loved") whenever she needed it in her life. One of the (many) things I eventually realised was that even if we did get together she'd still have this habit of wanting an escape from the daily realities of life ... so if we had a disagreement (for examlpe) and she was feeling down she would be driven to find a "pick her up" to distract her/re-validate her. I eventually also noticed that I never got any support for my needs and so it was all one way ... great for her I guess .. but not so good for me
Author Silly_Girl Posted June 11, 2010 Author Posted June 11, 2010 I have just had such a little chuckle at myself.... So many times I've felt bleak and distressed and felt lost without the person who was such a big part of my life, every day. I miss the connection, the 'being in it' with someone, there's 'us two' and then there's the rest of the world. The banter and the interaction. The physical affection, god, I miss that! I frequently feel a tremendous urge just to send him a 'I love you' text, or 'I miss you' in an email; and as I had that urge just now whilst working I thought "Why on EARTH would I want to do that.... To massage his ego...? To give him more reasons to daydream instead of facing up to the life he's accepted for himself...? To show I'm pining and make myself (and him) feel as though I need his love to feel whole...?" He knows how I feel, and I've made it clear more than once that I'd do anything for us to be together, move counties even, but I'd not lay a finger on him all the while his wife believes him to be hers. I don't need to keep putting myself out there for more rejection. You guys rock!!!!
jj33 Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 Its awful what we let ourselves in for. Theres a book written a few years ago by Marion Keyes called This Charming Man. xMM never abused me physically but emotoinal abuse is difficult as well and when I got to the part where they were more open about the abuse I cried. In retrospect now I see that somewhere inside me I identified with that, even tho I didnt want to believe it at the time. I now see him as a bit of a monster. Not intentionally bad but bad just the same. I highly recommend that book its subtle in the way that it discusses the issue in just the same way that emotoinal abuse can be subtle. Apparently she worked with Womens Aid to understand the issues as she was writing it. The whole experience has scarred me but at the same time it has made me stronger. I am saddened that I am "off men" for the first time in my life. I know not all men are like that and I know many really great men, but I am wary very very wary. Im not a wilting flower and I am generally a very good judge of character and good at reading people but he really hoodwinked me. And its all my fault. I let him mess me around for years by not being willing to call his behavior what it was, selfish and abusive.
jthorne Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 A relationship that makes a woman feel less than what she is - is a waste.Wonderful quote! I wish more women would realize this! A good relationship brings out the best in both partners, while pushing each to be better. A good relationship doesn't require one to wait on the whims of the other (waiting to see if he can come over, waiting for calls/texs, wondering if he will ever leave...).
donnamaybe Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 I have just had such a little chuckle at myself.... So many times I've felt bleak and distressed and felt lost without the person who was such a big part of my life, every day. I miss the connection, the 'being in it' with someone, there's 'us two' and then there's the rest of the world. The banter and the interaction. The physical affection, god, I miss that! I frequently feel a tremendous urge just to send him a 'I love you' text, or 'I miss you' in an email; and as I had that urge just now whilst working I thought "Why on EARTH would I want to do that.... To massage his ego...? To give him more reasons to daydream instead of facing up to the life he's accepted for himself...? To show I'm pining and make myself (and him) feel as though I need his love to feel whole...?" He knows how I feel, and I've made it clear more than once that I'd do anything for us to be together, move counties even, but I'd not lay a finger on him all the while his wife believes him to be hers. I don't need to keep putting myself out there for more rejection. You guys rock!!!! No, YOU rock! This is such a wonderful post, full of strength and resolve. I'm so happy to see that you have a firm grip on things and, though it may hurt for awhile, refuse to allow yourself to be treated as less than you are.
bananalaffytaffy Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 I have just had such a little chuckle at myself.... So many times I've felt bleak and distressed and felt lost without the person who was such a big part of my life, every day. I miss the connection, the 'being in it' with someone, there's 'us two' and then there's the rest of the world. The banter and the interaction. The physical affection, god, I miss that! I frequently feel a tremendous urge just to send him a 'I love you' text, or 'I miss you' in an email; and as I had that urge just now whilst working I thought "Why on EARTH would I want to do that.... To massage his ego...? To give him more reasons to daydream instead of facing up to the life he's accepted for himself...? To show I'm pining and make myself (and him) feel as though I need his love to feel whole...?" He knows how I feel, and I've made it clear more than once that I'd do anything for us to be together, move counties even, but I'd not lay a finger on him all the while his wife believes him to be hers. I don't need to keep putting myself out there for more rejection. This sounds to me like you need the validation of others too much. Might want to think about that.
Author Silly_Girl Posted June 11, 2010 Author Posted June 11, 2010 This sounds to me like you need the validation of others too much. Might want to think about that. Definitely. Am doing. Already have some thoughts in that area with regards prior relationships. This recent break-up has really made me look at me and not just him/us. Saw a counsellor last night, first appointment. I think there's more of a hangover from a previous relationship than I'd let myself acknowledge. It's still early days though in terms of xMM so I expect those 'oh my god I miss him so much' moments to continue for a while
jj33 Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 What you have to remind yourself when you think that is what do you miss? You miss "the dream" of a perfect future together. You dont miss teh way he messed you around. You miss having faith in the future of a relationship that you are in. You need to pin those hopes and those dreams to your own future with someone who is really there for you.
bananalaffytaffy Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 (edited) Definitely. Am doing. Already have some thoughts in that area with regards prior relationships. This recent break-up has really made me look at me and not just him/us. Saw a counsellor last night, first appointment. I think there's more of a hangover from a previous relationship than I'd let myself acknowledge. It's still early days though in terms of xMM so I expect those 'oh my god I miss him so much' moments to continue for a while Thats wonderful to hear. I hope you find a counselor you like, and that they are helpful. My friend is a serial OW. She won't consider counseling. She seems to think a pill should fix her problems, so has taken every antidepressant known to man. I wish she had your gumption! Edited June 11, 2010 by bananalaffytaffy
BB07 Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 SG.......I've been following this thread. I think you are going to be alright and you are strong, stronger than you realize.
September Posted June 16, 2010 Posted June 16, 2010 I know I'm not Pink Orchid but on my own part, I feel my xMM is settling, he is going for the easy option through fear and habit. I feel it's selfish of him to stay and not allow his wife to meet someone who will fulfil her, who has her interests at heart, who will be exclusive to her. And I said this to him. The same as when my xMM's wife got dumped and returned home I think it was selfish of her because nothing changed, and no efforts were made to rebuild the marriage, they decided to 'live with' things as they were. So I think the affairs (on both parts) will continue in a cycle. And because I believe those things fully I was prepared to support my xMM in leaving his marriage to be with me. Which isn't what happened. I hear you! It's exactly how I feel about my xMM!
fooled once Posted June 16, 2010 Posted June 16, 2010 I have just had such a little chuckle at myself.... So many times I've felt bleak and distressed and felt lost without the person who was such a big part of my life, every day. I miss the connection, the 'being in it' with someone, there's 'us two' and then there's the rest of the world. The banter and the interaction. The physical affection, god, I miss that! I frequently feel a tremendous urge just to send him a 'I love you' text, or 'I miss you' in an email; and as I had that urge just now whilst working I thought "Why on EARTH would I want to do that.... To massage his ego...? To give him more reasons to daydream instead of facing up to the life he's accepted for himself...? To show I'm pining and make myself (and him) feel as though I need his love to feel whole...?" He knows how I feel, and I've made it clear more than once that I'd do anything for us to be together, move counties even, but I'd not lay a finger on him all the while his wife believes him to be hers. I don't need to keep putting myself out there for more rejection. You guys rock!!!! Exactly! You are doing great!!! Look how far you have come since joining LS!!!! See, all of us who were 'tough' on you aren't just mean 'rejected' OW -- we are actually rooting for you to FIND YOU and to not let yourself be defined by a MAN or be defined as an "OW". You are SILLY -- and no one puts silly in the corner LOL (Okay, I admit it - I loved Dirty Dancing!)
Author Silly_Girl Posted June 17, 2010 Author Posted June 17, 2010 Thank you very much for posts guys. I still have frequent 'dark' moments. And am very confused, but I see more how xMM's failings/traits have contributed to that confusion. I see him in an altered light now and that's helped me to see how things unravelled as they unravelled. I struggle if I don't understand something, not agree with, but understand and rationalise, so have done some of that and feel more comfortable that I'm not to blame and couldn't have done anything different. And it's not a rejection of me at all, it's ALL about him/her and their entrenchment in their life as it exists, they are co-conspirators in many unspoken ways and I suspect that until they are simultaneously ready to break out of that, nothing will change for either of them. He texted me yesterday to tell me he's struggling and he's sorry he didn't reply to my texts (these date way back to when he went AWOL) but he's not been able to read ANY texts or emails, and hasn't even been managing to go to work every day. He's a 'total mess'. Awww, bless him. He's so heartbroken he forgot to ask how I am!!! Charmer. But of course, he's still going to call me and say "let me cook dinner for you in my new flat, and I can explain what happened and how very single I am". Muwahahahahahaaaaa!!!! I have great moments too, and I believe that my chances of happiness, by my standards, is very much in front of me, but his - unless something fundamental changes inside of him - are dwindling very quickly indeed. That's sad, but christ, I've been in so much worse positions than him and dragged myself out. I'm sad he didn't grow a pair because there were times that... well, you know, I'd have done anything if it meant we could stay together, but as it is I'm relieved to be not taking the position of Life Coach for him. There's only one person in the world I want to be mummy to.
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