DD7: "Mommy, are you getting married again?"

[sruben]

Update: Okay, I finished reading NMMNG and Love Must Be Tough (just finished that yesterday), I have started engaging my W in "tough love" conflict -- I started with the finances since that is the must urgent (although not most important) issue with her spending more than she's making at her more meaningful but lesser paying job (about 1/5 what she was making at her last professional job which she quit last Oct due to "toxic environment", or as she later stated "to make myself completely dependent on you"). She cried, wailed, gaslighted and tried all sorts of manipulation to get me to back down and not hold her accountable for spending more than she makes (our household budget, which is paid from my income, has zero slack in it). I was not a Nice Guy (but I wasn't a jerk, either -- I just stood my ground because I knew I was right. WE can't spend more than WE make, or WE will go bankrupt! I repeated that several times).

 

She was mad, said I lied to her that it was okay to take this job. I didn't. I told her that ANYthing she made would help, as there is no room for car breakdowns, eating out, house repairs or anything in my budget. We don't even have savings. I am paying all the necessary and "necessary" (okay, cable we COULD do without, but she and the girls would drive each other crazy with nothing to do, hence why I put that in quotes), so she needs to earn what she spends on her hobby, girls' birthday parties/proms/etc. Basically, anything not in the HH budget. She walked out at the end with the comment that "even if I made 100K, I'd still be spending more than we make!" WTF? However, actions speak louder than words, and she HAS started looking for another job which will pay what she's capable of earning.

 

I have NOT confronted her with what I know about her (at least) EA last summer. I've been advised not to run too much together (finances + EA is a lot for her to process at once is the thinking). However, I need to do that soon, because...

 

Last night she told me that she "was offered two jobs" which pay in the 6-digits but that require 75% travel or more. She'd be gone M-Th every week. She said one of them was right up her alley (and it is -- very related to her last job). I think she can do the job. She said it would just be for a couple of years until we're paying only one private school tuition (and I expect that I will be able to bring home more once I have my bachelor's degree which I've been working on for 4 years, I should have it by end of summer). However, with the problems we have in our M regarding openness & honesty (O&H) and lack of boundaries (since she doesn't think it's immoral to give a guy a HJ whom she's not married to when she's dating...I'm really wondering if that includes while she's married to me?), I have strong misgivings about her travelling regularly for work! I couldn't bring that up last night because we haven't had the EA talk yet. Besides, I'm beginning to come around to the idea that if she's going to have EA's and/or give HJ's (PA in my book), there isn't anything I can do about it. Right now, D would put her in a bad spot because she couldn't survive on her present income, but with a new job, that issue goes away. And if she's no longer "completely dependent" on me, I think the likelihood of more EA/PA while she's away is much greater.

 

Because we don't seem to have anything to talk about when she's here other than the kids, I highly doubt we'll be talking every night on the phone. The last two times she was out of town, we spoke maybe 5-10 minutes a night on the phone (if that!). Plenty of time for her to find other things to do (although her last trip I'm pretty sure she didn't -- had a roommate whom I know, and they had a busy itinerary and DSD14 was with her but in another room).

 

I plan to confront her by, as Dobson says, "facilitating a crisis" soon, when I can manage to have ALL the girls out for the evening (including DD7, which is mine). This might be hard to do. I may just have to take my W away from home to have this conversation. If she gets offered one of those jobs (what she has now is a headhunter wanting to submit her for it, nothing bona fide yet), that will escalate my timetable on this. My friends have encouraged me to wait at least a month, but I don't think it'll keep that long. Besides, it has now been a year since the EA was in full swing, June 29th is when I think it ended because of her intense grief she wouldn't explain.

 

Now to the point of my topic at the top: So, my W is working at the summer camp DD7 attends. She worked Apr/May with a young guy who all the girls know, his wife is VERY pregnant and due any day now. The first couple of weeks she worked in Apr, she would tell me about her day, all the new folks she was meeting and working with. She referred to this guy by his title, "Coach" so-and-so. Then such talk started becoming less frequent. I noticed a couple of weeks ago any reference to this guy was by his first name, spoken softly as though with some sentiment. A piece of art appeared on the wall (I didn't notice, one of the girls did -- she told that DD "it was made by Coach so-and-so's mother", but she NEVER mentioned it to me. I'm a guy, clueless enough I didn't even realize a new piece of art had appeared. I don't know how she came by that piece, did she buy it or was it a gift to her? Did she give him one? I don't know, but I'll be asking when I confront her with the rest). Okay, so this young guy is also working at the summer camp.

 

Yesterday at supper, my W tells me in front of the girls, "DD7 saw me talking to Coach so-and-so today and asked me, 'Mommy, are you getting M'd again?'" The older girls kind of laugh at the audacity of such a statement. DD7 says, "Well, that's because you M'd Daddy and Mr. H#1!" (DD7 doesn't know about xH#2 or that Mommy married him twice). More laughter. Then my W tells me, "But I do have a someone with a crush!" Tells me about this little boy who likes to talk to her, wants to hold her hand, she says it's obvious he's missing his Mommy during the day. We all go "Awwww!" (and what a cute story!).

 

So I wonder if the cute story is just misdirection regarding the one that preceded it? She's done that before. So, I hate to involve DD7 at her age, but this morning I asked why she thought that, were they talking real close, touching, etc? DD7 says there was no touching, but she thought they were "talking about getting hooked up".

 

To say that my anxiety is through the roof this morning would be an understatement. I can barely WAIT to have the EA discussion! Geeze...

 

Now, here's another unusual thing: My W hardly ever has initiated ILY in our M, it's almost always said in response to me saying it first. Lately, I've been saying it less (trying some 180 action there and in other ways, working out a lot, working late when I didn't use to, etc). Two weeks ago, she said it for the first time in probably the 4 years we've been having trouble. She's said it a few more times, including this morning.

 

Could this be in response to me pulling back a bit, being less needy? Is she now afraid she'll lose me? Or is she trying to make me feel secure while she's possibly conducting yet another EA with "Coach" so-and-so?

 

I need to go see IC again (he called me late last week, wanted to know when my next appt was going to be)!

[jnj express]

Its obvious your 7 years old has picked up on something----kids have excellent instincts, and pick up on flirtatious or worse contact----be wary----you know your wife goes down the wrong path already-----you might call the camp owner---and drop a couple of hints, that coach blah blah, who has a very pregnant wife---is showing your wife way to much attention---and that the campers are picking up on it----owner doesn't want to lose campers and money---so he will put a stop to it

[Doing it Since '78]

If you really feel some type of way about coach "young studbuck" blanekty-blankety, pay him and your W a surpirse visit, and get a feel for the chump.

 

And follow your gut, if their is blood in the water, a shark will pounce. Preggo wife or not

[sruben]

If you really feel some type of way about coach "young studbuck" blanekty-blankety, pay him and your W a surpirse visit, and get a feel for the chump.

 

And follow your gut, if their is blood in the water, a shark will pounce. Preggo wife or not

 

I get the first part about the surprise visit, but I'm missing the second part -- what do you mean? What reaction should I be looking for? I'm guessing if there were something going on, they'd probably just act cool if I were around. In fact, I'm guessing they'd be more careful around DD7 from now on if there were something going on.

 

First time I met him, he seemed "young, dumb and full of cum" like a lot of guys his age (20's). He was polite enough. In fact, when my W had been working there only a couple of weeks, I had to sign DSD15 in because she was late, he saw me in the hall, went back to his office (which he was sharing with her at the time) and told her "there's someone you might want to see in the office". She came out right away just to say "Hi", then I had to leave and let her get back to work (and I had to get to work as well). It was later I found out about his W being due any day now. My guess is he hasn't gotten any at home for awhile, if they're like most preg couples.

[sruben]

One thing I can't figure out is why my W is all of a sudden volunteering ILY's when, for at least the past 4 years (since we started having trouble), she almost NEVER says it except in response to me saying it.

 

Has anyone else experienced this? Does it mean she's coming around? Or is she concealing something else?

 

What happened in your cases?

[Citizen Erased]

Never be surprised what cheaters are capable of. When I was 11 my mother left me in the teacher staff room while she went into the guy she left my dad for office. I was sitting there happy as can be when it occured to me what they were doing. Clearly even working at a primary school they didn't realise kids pick up on a lot.

 

As for the ILY, does it really matter why? Whatever her reasons, is a little affection going to change what you suspect?

[seibert253]

One thing I can't figure out is why my W is all of a sudden volunteering ILY's when, for at least the past 4 years (since we started having trouble), she almost NEVER says it except in response to me saying it.

 

Has anyone else experienced this? Does it mean she's coming around? Or is she concealing something else?

 

What happened in your cases?

 

 

She realizes you're pulling away, but is only concerned because you've her meal ticket. She's throwing you a bone with the ILY's.

 

Enough is enough. IMO you need to throw the hammer down and confront her about what you know.

 

The comment by your 7yr old. You should be VERY concerned about this. Kids see EVERYTHING. IMO your kid saw something physical happening between your W and the coach, and equates this physical contact as something that happens with M'd couples. Your kid's right. Have you sat and asked your kid why they made the comment? Ask, "what did you see mommy doing with coach?" You may not like what you hear.

[Doing it Since '78]

I get the first part about the surprise visit, but I'm missing the second part -- what do you mean? What reaction should I be looking for? I'm guessing if there were something going on, they'd probably just act cool if I were around. In fact, I'm guessing they'd be more careful around DD7 from now on if there were something going on.

 

First time I met him, he seemed "young, dumb and full of cum" like a lot of guys his age (20's). He was polite enough. In fact, when my W had been working there only a couple of weeks, I had to sign DSD15 in because she was late, he saw me in the hall, went back to his office (which he was sharing with her at the time) and told her "there's someone you might want to see in the office". She came out right away just to say "Hi", then I had to leave and let her get back to work (and I had to get to work as well). It was later I found out about his W being due any day now. My guess is he hasn't gotten any at home for awhile, if they're like most preg couples.

 

That young dude is more than likely spending wayyyy more time yucking it up with your wife than you can imagine, making her feel young again, and she is probably loving every minute of it, young stud full of cum and all.

 

Can you imagine how you would feel if a 23 year old sexy little cutie was on your stick? Laughing at your jokes, and blah, blah. With your wife's history, dude she is open for this to go further than you can imagine.

 

Confront the clown, and see what type of cock hound he really is, pick up on their interactions, you know if all of a sudden they stop talking when you come in the room, or hit her with an ILY in front of the kid, and see what you get in return.

 

And if you need to, pull his punk ass to teh side, and let him know what's up. Act is if this kid was at your door, attempting to take your 15 year old daughter to the prom, with his johnson in his hand. Give him the same speech/treatment.

 

Bottom line, it sounds like your wife is loosey goosey anyway, so either make a move and nip this in the bud now, or wait for this kid to start long stroking your old lady. And stop delaying the inevitable, if you don't make some steps towards fixing the real issue-SHE WILL SHARE THE PU$$Y WITH ANOTHER DUDE!

 

Who cares about her giving some sucker a HJ ages ago, you got bigger fish to fry than that. You need to stop her from sucking a fecking this dude, NOW!

 

Simple as that bro

Edited June 10, 2010 by Doing it Since '78

[sruben]

She realizes you're pulling away, but is only concerned because you've her meal ticket. She's throwing you a bone with the ILY's.

 

Enough is enough. IMO you need to throw the hammer down and confront her about what you know.

 

It's coming. Soon. I don't want to do it in front of the kids, so I'll probably have to take her somewhere to have that convo.

 

She has been contacted by a headhunter for a 6-digit job involving 75% travel, it's right up her alley (very related to her previous job, and they're interested. I expect her to get an offer within two weeks). I MUST have that convo with her before she leaves, I know that. Her reaction to it will tell whether this M is going to last through that. Right now, I have my doubts.

 

The comment by your 7yr old. You should be VERY concerned about this. Kids see EVERYTHING. IMO your kid saw something physical happening between your W and the coach, and equates this physical contact as something that happens with M'd couples. Your kid's right. Have you sat and asked your kid why they made the comment? Ask, "what did you see mommy doing with coach?" You may not like what you hear.

 

I did ask (I hated to, because the psychs always say you shouldn't involve them, but she knows something I don't). I asked her why she thought Mommy might be getting married again, she said because she was talking to him. I asked if she was touching him in any way, she said no. Then she volunteered, "I thought they were talking about getting 'hooked up'." !!!! So, yeah, I didn't like what I heard, but I don't have anything actionable. I told her not to tell Mommy that I was asking about this, she asked me not to tell her we talked about it, either! Hmmmm... I gotta tread really carefully there. Little kids have a way of taking on toxic shame for things they're not responsible for, and I don't want her thinking that she's the reason for the D, if it comes to that... :-(

[sruben]

Never be surprised what cheaters are capable of. When I was 11 my mother left me in the teacher staff room while she went into the guy she left my dad for office. I was sitting there happy as can be when it occured to me what they were doing. Clearly even working at a primary school they didn't realise kids pick up on a lot.

 

As for the ILY, does it really matter why? Whatever her reasons, is a little affection going to change what you suspect?

 

Amazing. Sorry you had to see that as a little kid.

 

No, it won't change what I suspect. I wish it could. I tried for 5 months to "let it go", as she asked...but she never came clean with anything. She thinks if it goes away, we'll be fine and happy. She hasn't been paying attention the last 4 years.

 

Last year when I asked what she spent all that moneyon, she said, "I don't know! Why do you care? I don't care what YOU spend money on!" What that says to me is that because she doesn't want me to know, she doesn't want me to want to know, either!

 

I hate to say it, but I can easily see that extending to "what were you doing last night and with whom?" once she starts travelling for work. "Why do you care, I don't care what YOU did last night (even if I know you were home with DD7 watching her like a good dad while I was out acting like a single person)!!!"

 

She says so much with what she DOESN'T say...or am I just imagining all this? She'd have me believe the latter...

[sruben]

That young dude is more than likely spending wayyyy more time yucking it up with your wife than you can imagine, making her feel young again, and she is probably loving every minute of it, young stud full of cum and all.

 

Can you imagine how you would feel if a 23 year old sexy little cutie was on your stick? Laughing at your jokes, and blah, blah. With your wife's history, dude she is open for this to go further than you can imagine.

 

Confront the clown, and see what type of cock hound he really is, pick up on their interactions, you know if all of a sudden they stop talking when you come in the room, or hit her with an ILY in front of the kid, and see what you get in return.

 

And if you need to, pull his punk ass to teh side, and let him know what's up. Act is if this kid was at your door, attempting to take your 15 year old daughter to the prom, with his johnson in his hand. Give him the same speech/treatment.

 

Bottom line, it sounds like your wife is loosey goosey anyway, so either make a move and nip this in the bud now, or wait for this kid to start long stroking your old lady. And stop delaying the inevitable, if you don't make some steps towards fixing the real issue-SHE WILL SHARE THE PU$$Y WITH ANOTHER DUDE!

 

Who cares about her giving some sucker a HJ ages ago, you got bigger fish to fry than that. You need to stop her from sucking a fecking this dude, NOW!

 

Simple as that bro

 

Those are good ideas, I had also gotten the idea to go talk to him. I'm guessing I have an advantage over him because of our age and experience differences, plus my force of personality -- hoping he'll cave easy! He is also at a disadvantage being that he works for a Christian school who would not look kindly at him creating a controversy or drama, plus his young pregnant wife would be devastated! He has more to lose. The way I see it, I think I've already lost (last year) what I cared about. I mourned that loss then (I'm sure I'll have bad days in the future, though. Today's not so great...struggling with moodiness. Good thing my officemate is out on travel).

 

Timing is everything. From your advice, I either gotta pick a time that they would be together (which I don't know), or I could "pop in" for lunch (she only gets 1/2 hour), but this week and the next two she has to pick up DSD16 from summer school and take her home and get back in < .5 hr -- a challenge, and doesn't leave me time to surprise her with lunch. Maybe after that, if she doesn't get offered this other travelling job first! Of course, if she does, the point will be moot in that a) she won't be seeing him any more, and b) I will have had the big confrontation about last summer and our trust/boundary issues first...

[sruben]

Right now I'm reading "Not 'Just Friends': Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity".

 

OMG, if she doesn't appear on almost every page!

 

 

 

I wish it were HER recovering her sanity. Every time I see something she's done being described in there I seriously want to put my head through the wall! Arghhh!!!

 

 

 

The section on "Commitment and Permission" was especially telling. I believe it describes her attitude to a "T" -- she doesn't consider herself to have ever been unfaithful because she hasn't had full intercourse, and her commitment til death do us part means she promises to stay but doesn't promise not to stray!