carhill Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 If she's not having an affair, it can be that she has low labido, low hormones. How old is she? Based on the OP's first post on LS and what he's related here, my guess is mid-thirties minimum, as their children are teenagers. I think that first post is very revealing. Hope it works out.
Author WalkingOnEggs Posted June 12, 2010 Author Posted June 12, 2010 Based on the OP's first post on LS and what he's related here, my guess is mid-thirties minimum, as their children are teenagers. I think that first post is very revealing. Hope it works out.I'm 45, she's 46. Yeah, we're no spring chickens
mem11363 Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 WOE, You described walking in the house and getting "yelled at" regularly. Is that still happening? What is she yelling at you about? Does she typically have a valid basis for being angry or is she just taking her anger at "life in general" out on you? On the days where she does NOT have a valid basis for being angry at you, how do you respond? I'm 45, she's 46. Yeah, we're no spring chickens
Author WalkingOnEggs Posted June 12, 2010 Author Posted June 12, 2010 I'd pay attention to this posting! It deserves a bump up! If she's wearing thongs all of a sudden for example, when she never wore them for you, and if she's been trimming down there, well, you may want to check that one out! Then she's probably doing it for someone else! Affairs can go on for years and the BS has no idea what's going on! I really don't suspect an affair. And again, she's always gotten all dolled up before going out for as long as I've known her. There's been no sudden change in behavior or anything.
Author WalkingOnEggs Posted June 12, 2010 Author Posted June 12, 2010 WOE, You described walking in the house and getting "yelled at" regularly. Is that still happening? What is she yelling at you about? Does she typically have a valid basis for being angry or is she just taking her anger at "life in general" out on you? On the days where she does NOT have a valid basis for being angry at you, how do you respond? Yeah, that happens alot. I usually respond by either not responding, by yelling back, or by walking out for awhile. That's what I did today, I went out for the afternoon on my own.
JamesM Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 Yeah, that happens alot. I usually respond by either not responding, by yelling back, or by walking out for awhile. That's what I did today, I went out for the afternoon on my own. What is she yelling at you about? And why?
Author WalkingOnEggs Posted June 12, 2010 Author Posted June 12, 2010 Anyways, the day before yesterday morning we had a discussion again because she again wanted to know what was wrong and would not let it go. So I told her that I was sexually frustrated and it's getting to me know. So she was very loving after that and promised that that night we'd have great sex. We did wind up having sex, but I could see she didn't feel like it. She was tired and probably would have rather curled up in bed with a book instead. But hey, at least we had sex, so that should shut me up for awhile. Nothing since then. I think you guys are right. I need to stop pursuing it or discussing it with her anymore. That's a dead horse if there ever was one.
Author WalkingOnEggs Posted June 12, 2010 Author Posted June 12, 2010 (edited) What is she yelling at you about? And why? Ok, you guys are probably going to think this is stupid. She asked me to put a movie on for her that we could watch this evening. No big deal. But then as the movie started, she started typing furiously on her computer to answer some email. So I asked her if she wanted me to pause the film until she's done. She didn't answer, all she said was "Turn it down!!" So I did. Afterwards, I asked her again if she wanted me to pause it (since I didn't get her answer the first time). She then yelled and said "NO! I said TURN IT DOWN!! If I had wanted you to pause it I would have asked you to pause it!" So I let it go. Then after she was done answering her email, I asked her if the email was from the Parent Group thing (like PTA). She said "Why are you harassing me?". Now mind you, I never raised my voice nor used any aggressive tone whatsoever. I asked her why she was taking this tone with me and she replied that she was taking no tone and to get off her case. So I figured there was no need for me to hang around for this crap and I just went out. As I was leaving she got all pissed and said "Oh great! So because you think I'm not talking to you nicely enough you're leaving. Great way to spend a Saturday!" I didn't respond and I left. It's midnight thirty here (I live in Paris) and I just got back. She's asleep. Edited June 12, 2010 by WalkingOnEggs
mem11363 Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 WOE, For the moment you really need to stop thinking about sex because - buddy - your wife has little respect for you. And THAT is a recipe for divorce. In general I have a simple rule about this type stuff - EVERY time my wife interacts with me in a disrespectful way I address it with her until she apologizes. It is the ONLY way to get someone with boundary issues to manage their emotions. Guess what - since she doesn't like to apologize any more than the next person she rarely crosses that line with me. If I walked in the door and she hammered me for something minor or something that wasn't my fault she would get immediate feedback in a sharp tone of voice followed by me de-prioritizing her needs. I do a LOT of nice stuff for my wife. I want to. It is very easy to cut back on that or stop entirely. I don't give massages, cook deluxe meals (hell cook at all), engage in conversation, etc. if I feel ill treated. Ok, you guys are probably going to think this is stupid. She asked me to put a movie on for her that we could watch this evening. No big deal. But then as the movie started, she started typing furiously on her computer to answer some email. So I asked her if she wanted me to pause the film until she's done. She didn't answer, all she said was "Turn it down!!" So I did. Afterwards, I asked her again if she wanted me to pause it (since I didn't get her answer the first time). She then yelled and said "NO! I said TURN IT DOWN!! If I had wanted you to pause it I would have asked you to pause it!" So I let it go. Then after she was done answering her email, I asked her if the email was from the Parent Group thing (like PTA). She said "Why are you harassing me?". Now mind you, I never raised my voice nor used any aggressive tone whatsoever. I asked her why she was taking this tone with me and she replied that she was taking no tone and to get off her case. So I figured there was no need for me to hang around for this crap and I just went out. As I was leaving she got all pissed and said "Oh great! So because you think I'm not talking to you nicely enough you're leaving. Great way to spend a Saturday!" I didn't respond and I left. It's midnight thirty here (I live in Paris) and I just got back. She's asleep.
Scrivdog Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 WOE, For the moment you really need to stop thinking about sex because - buddy - your wife has little respect for you. And THAT is a recipe for divorce. In general I have a simple rule about this type stuff - EVERY time my wife interacts with me in a disrespectful way I address it with her until she apologizes. It is the ONLY way to get someone with boundary issues to manage their emotions. Guess what - since she doesn't like to apologize any more than the next person she rarely crosses that line with me. If I walked in the door and she hammered me for something minor or something that wasn't my fault she would get immediate feedback in a sharp tone of voice followed by me de-prioritizing her needs. I do a LOT of nice stuff for my wife. I want to. It is very easy to cut back on that or stop entirely. I don't give massages, cook deluxe meals (hell cook at all), engage in conversation, etc. if I feel ill treated. I have to agree. That's classic textbook verbal abuse. I think you don't realize how bad it is. This is real bad.
xxoo Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 Ok, you guys are probably going to think this is stupid. She asked me to put a movie on for her that we could watch this evening. No big deal. But then as the movie started, she started typing furiously on her computer to answer some email. So I asked her if she wanted me to pause the film until she's done. She didn't answer, all she said was "Turn it down!!" So I did. This is your normal dynamic? She barks, you obey? How I'd handle this: Immediately turn off the tv completely (competing noise makes it difficult for me to communicate, so that is mostly for me). Say something like "You are yelling at me." Wait for a response/apology. Wait for a polite request to begin the activity together again. Like mem, I am normally SUPER nice to my H, but I'm not going to cater to someone who is being nasty. Neither is he.
mem11363 Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 WOE, It really would help us understand your situation better if you could give a couple examples where you walked in the door and she immediately started yelling at you. Why she did it, and whether or not you thought it was a fair way to address the issue. This is your normal dynamic? She barks, you obey? How I'd handle this: Immediately turn off the tv completely (competing noise makes it difficult for me to communicate, so that is mostly for me). Say something like "You are yelling at me." Wait for a response/apology. Wait for a polite request to begin the activity together again. Like mem, I am normally SUPER nice to my H, but I'm not going to cater to someone who is being nasty. Neither is he.
Author WalkingOnEggs Posted June 13, 2010 Author Posted June 13, 2010 WOE, It really would help us understand your situation better if you could give a couple examples where you walked in the door and she immediately started yelling at you. Why she did it, and whether or not you thought it was a fair way to address the issue. Well among the more ludicrous was where she yells at me once bacause the day before I had gotten her something from the store on the way back from work. I think it was plain yogurt in glass jars. I somehow made a mistake and got them with vanilla flavor. So the next day she got pretty bent out of shape about it. Another time she had tried to call me as I was coming home from work to pick something up. But I had messed up and my phone was in my gym bag in the back seat and I couldn't reach it. So I decided to wait til I got home since I was only 5 minutes away anyway. Turns out she wanted me to pick something up from the store. I can understand her being annoyed at that, but I thought she over-reacted. But those are typical examples. Many times, she won't have anything specific to yell about, but she'll silmply be in a foul mood. Genrally she's in an a pretty good mood in the mornings, and then it turns foul as afternoon turns to night.
giotto Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 Well among the more ludicrous was where she yells at me once bacause the day before I had gotten her something from the store on the way back from work. I think it was plain yogurt in glass jars. I somehow made a mistake and got them with vanilla flavor. So the next day she got pretty bent out of shape about it. Another time she had tried to call me as I was coming home from work to pick something up. But I had messed up and my phone was in my gym bag in the back seat and I couldn't reach it. So I decided to wait til I got home since I was only 5 minutes away anyway. Turns out she wanted me to pick something up from the store. I can understand her being annoyed at that, but I thought she over-reacted. But those are typical examples. Many times, she won't have anything specific to yell about, but she'll silmply be in a foul mood. Genrally she's in an a pretty good mood in the mornings, and then it turns foul as afternoon turns to night. she needs anger management... seriously...
xxoo Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 Well among the more ludicrous was where she yells at me once bacause the day before I had gotten her something from the store on the way back from work. I think it was plain yogurt in glass jars. I somehow made a mistake and got them with vanilla flavor. So the next day she got pretty bent out of shape about it. Another time she had tried to call me as I was coming home from work to pick something up. But I had messed up and my phone was in my gym bag in the back seat and I couldn't reach it. So I decided to wait til I got home since I was only 5 minutes away anyway. Turns out she wanted me to pick something up from the store. I can understand her being annoyed at that, but I thought she over-reacted. But those are typical examples. Many times, she won't have anything specific to yell about, but she'll silmply be in a foul mood. Genrally she's in an a pretty good mood in the mornings, and then it turns foul as afternoon turns to night. But the topic of your thread is "sexless marriage". Why are you willing to live with nasty treatment, but unwilling to live with sexless marriage? (I'm not suggesting sexless marriage isn't a huge problem, but this day-to-day treatment, surely observed by your children over the years, is an even bigger problem). The first step to being treated well is recognizing good and bad treatment. When someone treats you poorly, it is time to stop and point it out immediately. Yelling isn't necessary, but direct communication (conflict) is. Frankly, she is behaving like a child--throwing tantrums when things don't go her way. Does she have inadequate coping skills? Does she have similar tantrums with the kids, the parenting group, extended family? Or is her wrath only for you? If it is only for you, she's learned that you don't require her self control (and also doesn't think you deserve it ). If you consistently, calmly insist that you won't tolerate being yelled at, she'll have to use self control to have your audience. She will respect you more.
Author WalkingOnEggs Posted June 13, 2010 Author Posted June 13, 2010 But the topic of your thread is "sexless marriage". Why are you willing to live with nasty treatment, but unwilling to live with sexless marriage? (I'm not suggesting sexless marriage isn't a huge problem, but this day-to-day treatment, surely observed by your children over the years, is an even bigger problem). The first step to being treated well is recognizing good and bad treatment. When someone treats you poorly, it is time to stop and point it out immediately. Yelling isn't necessary, but direct communication (conflict) is. Frankly, she is behaving like a child--throwing tantrums when things don't go her way. Does she have inadequate coping skills? Does she have similar tantrums with the kids, the parenting group, extended family? Or is her wrath only for you? If it is only for you, she's learned that you don't require her self control (and also doesn't think you deserve it ). If you consistently, calmly insist that you won't tolerate being yelled at, she'll have to use self control to have your audience. She will respect you more. Because my main concern right now is the general lack of sex. That is driving me up the wall more than anything. Her behavior I can deal with, the lack of sex, i can't.
reddog63 Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 I strongly disagree with the sexual obligation. Divorce is a much better option, imo. No one should ever have sex out of obligation. Yuck. I believe obligatory sex kills desire. I strongly agree that the LD spouse shares a reponsibility in addressing the problem. Absolutely. I don't know if the "pedestal" definition works for me (I kinda think H puts me on a pedestal, but it is a mutual thing maybe? I think I put him on one, too), but I agree with all of these issues: I am not sure obligation is the right word, I would have to ponder that a little more. But the word is close. At least I lean in that direction more then the comment that it is not a sexual obligation. How can a married spouse deny the other for long periods of time? Why stay married? And I know , sex is not everything in a marriage, but it is very important. I have read these sex starved threads for a long time. You women out there (and men to lesser extent) are playing with fire when you do not meet your spouses needs. SEX is one of the top needs of a man. Sure, you can try and figure out if there are things you are doing wrong, but it should not be as complicated as some of these posters say. Plus, how many threads do you read where the husband does much of the housework, taking care of kids, etc and still gets little.
xxoo Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 How can a married spouse deny the other for long periods of time? Why stay married? And I know , sex is not everything in a marriage, but it is very important. I agree sex is important, but obligatory sex is a big NO imo. It can damage a woman's desire in the long term--does more harm than good. My pov: How can a spouse accept obligatory sex? Why stay married? Because my main concern right now is the general lack of sex. That is driving me up the wall more than anything. Her behavior I can deal with, the lack of sex, i can't. Ok, I get that. But lack of sex isn't the root issue. I doubt you can fix the sex issue without addressing the general lack of respect, and maybe even contempt, she shows you. Women don't want to have sex with men who irritate them. Why is she so darned irritable with you? (notice I didn't assume you are irritating).
Scrivdog Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 (edited) I am not sure obligation is the right word, I would have to ponder that a little more. But the word is close. At least I lean in that direction more then the comment that it is not a sexual obligation. How can a married spouse deny the other for long periods of time? Why stay married? And I know , sex is not everything in a marriage, but it is very important. I have read these sex starved threads for a long time. You women out there (and men to lesser extent) are playing with fire when you do not meet your spouses needs. SEX is one of the top needs of a man. Sure, you can try and figure out if there are things you are doing wrong, but it should not be as complicated as some of these posters say. Plus, how many threads do you read where the husband does much of the housework, taking care of kids, etc and still gets little.Damn straight. If a spouse doesn't want to discomfort himself/herself for a lousy 45 minutes a week, then the honest thing to do would be either to leave or let the spouse seek loving elsewhere. Why doesn't the OP's wife do one of those? Anyone? Mark my words: this is an affair waiting to happen. Some woman hits on the OP and the guy's resolve will be toast. Ladies, kindly reselve a spot in the Infidelity section of this forum for the OP's wife as whe whines and screeches about her cheating, filthy husband. Edited June 13, 2010 by Scrivdog
giotto Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 I agree sex is important, but obligatory sex is a big NO imo. Absolutely. Ok, I get that. But lack of sex isn't the root issue. I doubt you can fix the sex issue without addressing the general lack of respect, and maybe even contempt, she shows you. Women don't want to have sex with men who irritate them. Why is she so darned irritable with you? (notice I didn't assume you are irritating). I agree... there is a deeper problem here, as always. A wife who doesn't want sex with her husband has lost desire for him, for whatever reason (no respect, overloving, not man enough, too beta). Communication is at the core for this... Why does a wife stay with her man? Because I'm sure she still loves her man, it's just she is not attracted sexually to him anymore (see above)... and why leave a safe harbour like home, when children are involved? In this case, she has a nice house, lovely children and a husband who works hard and provides... they should discuss this lack of intimacy, to find out what the root cause is, even if the OP has to resort to threatening divorce... sometimes this is the only way a wife will listen... then they will be able to repair the marriage, because it seems to me that there is still some love going on in there...
Scrivdog Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 Absolutely. I agree... there is a deeper problem here, as always. A wife who doesn't want sex with her husband has lost desire for him, for whatever reason (no respect, overloving, not man enough, too beta). Communication is at the core for this... Why does a wife stay with her man? Because I'm sure she still loves her man, it's just she is not attracted sexually to him anymore (see above)... and why leave a safe harbour like home, when children are involved? In this case, she has a nice house, lovely children and a husband who works hard and provides... they should discuss this lack of intimacy, to find out what the root cause is, even if the OP has to resort to threatening divorce... sometimes this is the only way a wife will listen... then they will be able to repair the marriage, because it seems to me that there is still some love going on in there... Fine then she should give him permission to seek sex elsewhere so she can keep her safe haven. Unbelievable.
xxoo Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 Fine then she should give him permission to seek sex elsewhere so she can keep her safe haven. Unbelievable. Yes, she should. But she hasn't. That doesn't mean it is ok for the op to stay and cheat. There is enough "why not leave?" in this situation to go around. She stays with a man she no longer desires or respects. He stays with a woman who treats him like dirt on her shoe, and finally reaches his breaking point when she avoids sex. My question for both: Why not go to marriage counseling? If you are going to stay (and so far, that is the choice both have made), why not work on the marriage in a structured way? Years of discussions and arguments don't necessarily amount to any productive communication.
Scrivdog Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 Yes, she should. But she hasn't. That doesn't mean it is ok for the op to stay and cheat. There is enough "why not leave?" in this situation to go around. She stays with a man she no longer desires or respects. He stays with a woman who treats him like dirt on her shoe, and finally reaches his breaking point when she avoids sex. My question for both: Why not go to marriage counseling? If you are going to stay (and so far, that is the choice both have made), why not work on the marriage in a structured way? Years of discussions and arguments don't necessarily amount to any productive communication.I bet you that the only one who has anything to gain from MC is the OP. And even then, he's paying some windbag to get his wife interested in him. It's pathetic. On the other hand, he has an affair, he basks in the glow of another woman's kindness, and when the wifey finds out, THEN guess who is going to want MC?
xxoo Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 I bet you that the only one who has anything to gain from MC is the OP. And even then, he's paying some windbag to get his wife interested in him. It's pathetic. On the other hand, he has an affair, he basks in the glow of another woman's kindness, and when the wifey finds out, THEN guess who is going to want MC? That's because THIS is the point of break for him, and THAT will be the point of break for her. That doesn't make cheating ok. The op can hop over to the infidelity board and see what kind of a mess that creates. It certainly isn't summed up with "basks in the glow". There is his ongoing relationship with his teenage kids to consider. Oh, and staying and cheating is equally pathetic. Why not leave? (editing....I don't actually think MC is pathetic....)
mem11363 Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 xxoo, I agree with you this is a MC opportunity. Actually this may be entirely an interaction breakdown. She is aggressive - actually WANTS him to be assertive and stand up for himself. He doesn't. She is turned off by that. I actually think his first move has nothing to do with sex. He needs to quickly and firmly demand fair treatment and if he does he may see a magical return of love. Real love - respect - not just a tolerance of sex on her part. IMO - he shouldn't need a MC to be assertive. He simply needs to strictly apply the golden rule in every conflict. Works for us. As an aside - I have my "moments" with my wife. And most of the time I realize and apologize without any prompting from her. That is just being a good partner. Your spouse shouldn't have to use thumbscrews to get an apology every time you misbehave. That's because THIS is the point of break for him, and THAT will be the point of break for her. That doesn't make cheating ok. The op can hop over to the infidelity board and see what kind of a mess that creates. It certainly isn't summed up with "basks in the glow". There is his ongoing relationship with his teenage kids to consider. Oh, and staying and cheating is equally pathetic. Why not leave? (editing....I don't actually think MC is pathetic....)
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