MsV Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 MSV, why should we support someone who is destroying two families so she can get off? why should we support someone who is so willing to treat her husband of 18 years in such a disgusting way? get off your high horse, in real life people get judged by others. We aren't condemning her to hell, we are just calling it like it is What do you want to say..............good job, hope your new love works out, and "oh your H probably deserved this Cheating aside, because I agree it is wrong and I am sure she does not feel good about it at all... what you are saying is, SHE is the one who holds the responsibility for making the marriage work. Her soon to be ex, however, holds no such responsibility. It was ok for him to just 'coast' and go with the flow. Granted, no one is responsible for making the other happy but marriage is work. That said, I do believe the troubling couple should always try everything to make it work before deciding to part ways. Providing that BOTH parties actually dot that.
MsV Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 I understand, nobody likes to be judged, esp when they have done something like this. Her judgement day comes later and we will not be the ones deciding as judges But you cant really expect us to give her the thumbs up, and encourage her to go further with her deceit and give her moral (immoral?) support. I don't believe people are inherently bad, they just sometimes do bad things. They make mistakes. Sometimes they're selfish, sometimes they have to be. I'm not in any place to judge and personally I don't believe in a 'judgement day'...I believe in karma and the balance of things but intention is always key. Poor choices aside, I don't believe this woman meant to hurt anyone. She may have had the option to NOT do things, no argument or excuse there, but as YouGoGirl said, what's done is done. No need to chastise someone who's situation we really don't know all that much about. She just wanted support. I believe a member on this thread did give say similar things to what some of you also said...just in a more supportive way.
MsV Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 My situation aside....I wasn't comparing....only stating how "fighting for" isn't what's going to make the relationship work....NOW.."working together"...that's what is going to make the relationship work. Oh...and the idea of chasing (apparently what was implied by the fighting for her comment) usually tends to drive the person away more.....AM I WRONG? Sounds as though it's a "cake and eat it too" scenario. "I WANT, I WANT, I WANT"...what about what he wants/needs?....shouldn't that matter. I don't care how many of these I read....it seems to me that it more often that not, boils down to the fact that EXPECTATIONS are what gets in the way. "You" let me down....therefore I need/want to get it from someone else. As far as I know....mind reading is impossible...so unless you have a scrolling bilboard on your forehead.....stating all these things "THEY SHOULD KNOW".....how do they know unless it's communicated...respectfully?! I'm interested in why the OP wants the man she can't stand to be with.....to fight for her or chase her?......Sounds like she is the one with issues. Again..I don't know everything here.....but the stated facts sure point to cake eating! I totally agree, chasing doesn't really help the situation. Maybe when she said 'fighting for' she meant him 'changing'. Just a thought.
Windsurf66 Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 What's done is done. She and her OM have both left their marriages. At this point, the only thing we can contribute is to help them succeed where their marriages have failed. I see no point in chastising them. Our only goal in contributing here should be to help people better their lives. The dynamics of why these two people's marriages went south enough to lead them to the affair is a tricky one that we can't see the details of, not being in those marriages ourselves. I'm not condoning their behavior. But what's left to salvage? What is left is the new relationship, and the children's mental health of both of these failed marriages. Although i understand there is grey besides black and white, cheating is clearly black, at least to me but may not be for you or others. I dun believe in not chastising but instead, encouraging/supporting when someone has done something as horrible as breaking up not one, but two families. We all have the rights to post our views here, whether in support or not in support What is left to salvage? What is left is a new r/s that was built on lies, deceit and upon the immense pain of their spouses u can encourage/support if you wish, but dun expect everyone to do so as well
Windsurf66 Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 I don't believe people are inherently bad, they just sometimes do bad things. They make mistakes. Sometimes they're selfish, sometimes they have to be. I'm not in any place to judge and personally I don't believe in a 'judgement day'...I believe in karma and the balance of things but intention is always key. Poor choices aside, I don't believe this woman meant to hurt anyone. She may have had the option to NOT do things, no argument or excuse there, but as YouGoGirl said, what's done is done. No need to chastise someone who's situation we really don't know all that much about. She just wanted support. I believe a member on this thread did give say similar things to what some of you also said...just in a more supportive way. I believe in karma too, judgement day has the same meaning for my case lets see whats her karma when and if she updates in a years time then
MsV Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 By the way Ironfist, I never did address your post...lol I want to say that I realize this is hard for everyone involved. Essentially not one but two families have been broken up in the process. I don't believe in leaving one relationship for another but I do believe that if we aren't happy, we go 'looking' even if subconciously. In my own situation with my husband, I have not cheated. I have spend years trying to fix things but to no avail. In the end, after several tries, I have said it is over. I have realized I would rather be alone than be with my husband at this point. Instead of other women/men I know I have not taken off with another person, changed the lock on the doors, or served divorce papers. I have done everything in my power, from therapy to medication, to try and make my marriage work. Even after making my decision (because things didn't change), and telling my husband, I still have taken things slow to give everyone time to adjust. All this said, I feel I have done things as best I could...the 'right' way. However, my husband STILL hasn't changed, STILL hasn't accepted things and STILL guilt tripping me every chance he gets. I STILL feel bad about losing my feelings and none of that has made things any better. I'm not saying cheating is right, and you obviously don't think it is either, but there seems to be no easy way to end a marriage. Not unless both parties agree and even then, it's hard. So from this point on, just do the best you can to do the right thing.
You Go Girl Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 I believe in karma too, judgement day has the same meaning for my case lets see whats her karma when and if she updates in a years time then Do you wish for her future to be horrible then? What does this wish give you? Have you been hurt and you find comfort in other's failures? I'm in a very giving mood today, knowing that life is not all black and white, not even affairs. Maybe her H has cheated on her in the past and has kept it a secret. What do you think of her cheating under these circumstances? Maybe her H has *betrayed* their marriage in other ways, such as complacency, destructive behaviors, sabotage, selfishness, and the list goes on. If he has betrayed the marriage, in whatever form, is her search for happiness more or less justified? Is having sex with another person really the worst crime that can occur in a marriage? Is it to be judged moreso than other ways a person can fail a marriage? And what of her personal growth? Assuming she isn't the same person she was 18 years ago (how could she be?) If she and her H have slowly grown apart over the years, and have little in common anymore than habit, is one or the other more to blame? What I see is two people that have sacrificed much to take this leap of faith into their new relationship. They could have just had an affair, screwed each other into next year, and never taken a leap of any kind of faith. They could have been your common selfish ego hungry type of cheaters, but they weren't. I understand anger at humankind for errors in judgment, because we all want to smack good behavior into everyone. But each person is on their own individual learning path, and I'm going to assume that those chastising her behavior have also made errors in judgment in their lives. When I say that I believe in karma, what that means to me is that whatever errors she has made will come back to haunt her if she doesn't learn anything from them. Same goes for everyone in these marriages. That it seems unequal that two of them are enjoying new love, and two of them are supposedly simply just in pain, will play out in the future to reveal who is at where in their understanding of relationship dynamics. Two wrongs don't make a right. This also applies to harm she has caused wishing that it would come back to her. I simply don't know enough of the other parties contribution to the failure of these marriages to judge everybody in them, so how can you? Judgment serves no purpose but that of a wish of harm.
habs53 Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Listen, i am sorry about my comment. Every case is different. But most websites claim 75-80 is caused by women. Im not making this up. Its a very disturbing fact. I think in allot of cases the women still do have feelings for there husband but anger takes over and the man does not do what the woman was seeking. Basically win back her love. http://www.divorcerate.org/divorce-rates-in-canada.html
You Go Girl Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Listen, i am sorry about my comment. Every case is different. But most websites claim 75-80 is caused by women. Im not making this up. Its a very disturbing fact. I think in allot of cases the women still do have feelings for there husband but anger takes over and the man does not do what the woman was seeking. Basically win back her love. http://www.divorcerate.org/divorce-rates-in-canada.html I think you are absolutely right that anger takes over and the man does not do what it would take to salvage the marriage. Both are at fault of course, the woman acting out so destructively in such a bold throw it all away manner, the man, often, either refusing to help fix what is wrong, or simply having no idea how to fix what is wrong. It is the man that has no idea what is wrong, or how to fix it, then even women feel sympathy or empathy as much as the men do for said husbands. I suppose the greater question here is, if more women are instigating divorce than men, what does that mean? Why are women so boldly walking away from their marriages moreso than men? What does it tell us about women and their search for happiness? I, for one, wouldn't want to think that women are innately less committed, less sensitive, less caring. So what does it mean, assuming that women cared about their partners in the beginning as much as the men did?
Windsurf66 Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Well, as I mentioned before in a previous post in this thread, we will not be the judges. "I understand, nobody likes to be judged, esp when they have done something like this. Her judgement day comes later and we will not be the ones deciding as judges" I understand you are in similar situations with the OP and MsV, hence the defensiveness. No worries, not judging u or wishing u any harm. No point doing that right, since u know how karma works. Doesn't mean if I wish or dun wish, harm on no harm will go to the person
mikeymad Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 http://www.divorcebusting.com/a_walkaway_wife.htm An interesting article. When you hear people talking about the "script" that people follow to justify to themselves leaving a marriage, this is in part what they are talking about. OP is the one who is going to have to look at herself in the mirror everyday from here on out. The fact that this went on for 14 months is not a "slip up". This is intentional, and a part of who she is NOW. Yes she may have been sweet and innocent and shy before, but that all changed when her and OM "met up for a kiss". This affair was just a catalyst to the marriage ending. You didn't stray because you "didnt love your husband". You were weak and wanted instant gratification. You even said you have to keep "telling yourself that"...that's justifying it to yourself to make it ok. Aside from that, There is no definition of "loving someone the way you're supposed to"...just a version of the "it's not you, it's me" excuse. If it wasn't this guy, it would've been the guy down the street. Anybody who could appeal to "making her feel good" at that particular moment, because it seems like thats what she wanted...to feel wanted and to have those butterflies again. The biggest thing people need to realize is that you don't change your marriage by making your partner change. That isn't being respectful of their uniqueness, and it's extremely selfish, as you are making it their job to make YOU happy. Also in part it is our own fault, because we teach people in our lives how to treat us by our own actions and responses to their actions. Example: The woman who leaves a man, and comes back and he accepts her with open arms, not holding her accountable and promising to change when he did nothing wrong in the first place. He now has taught her that he is a doormat and she can walk all over him and he won't put up a fight. Guess what happens next time she's unhappy? She thinks she can leave and come back whenever she wants with no consequence. The quote by Ghandi - "Be the change you wish to see in the world." This applies to relationships as well. You want your spouse to be more loving....YOU be more loving. Lead by example, and they will most likely follow. Praise they when they show small signs of change, because without that no larger changes will follow. Most often people complain, tell their spouses they won't change, then don't act surprised when they live up to that self fulfilling prophecy. I would also suggest that people who left a marriage because "they weren't happy" think about not getting married again. It's supposed to be a life-long commitment, and if one can leave one marriage, it becomes easier the 2nd time around. You learn that you don't die, you know what to expect, and you know someone else will be out there when it's over (if you don't already have someone on the backburner). One of my thoughts as to why the divorce rate is so high the 2nd time around. OP may also want to think about what kind of an example that left for the kids about quitting things when they get hard and you aren't happy. And the AUDACITY to slam your husband, for whom he stuck around with you while you were getting your rocks off with another guy, for not fighting for your marriage if the other guy doesn't work out? Maybe he realizes that someone who is so willing to get out of their marriage isn't WORTH fighting for. Most people come here looking for answers or advice. It will undoubtedly be biased by personal views and experience. No need to argue about it. Don't want it...don't post. I noticed there was no reason for this thread to start, as she wasn't looking for anything.
MsV Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 I understand you are in similar situations with the OP and MsV, hence the defensiveness. No worries, not judging u or wishing u any harm. No point doing that right, since u know how karma works. Doesn't mean if I wish or dun wish, harm on no harm will go to the person I know a lot about karma windsurf and even something a 'simple' as 'judging' another or wishing them or 'dun wishing' them harm or no harm in a smug way generates negative karma. So look out, no one is safe
Windsurf66 Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Hi Mikeymad, Good article and post. I think its too late for this OP, cos the problem now is she is leaving because of the OM. I think the OP is looking for a listening ear, as well as validation from others for her actions.
Windsurf66 Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 I know a lot about karma windsurf and even something a 'simple' as 'judging' another or wishing them or 'dun wishing' them harm or no harm in a smug way generates negative karma. So look out, no one is safe No worries for me, I will totally accept any karma created by myself, and will not blame or accuse anyone of creating my karma through judging or wishing me harm
MsV Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 MikeyMad, thanks for showing me that article by Michele Weiner-Davis because I will make sure to NEVER read any more of her lousy, male 'azz kissing' articles. Wait, I bet she goes to church too.
MsV Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 No worries for me, I will totally accept any karma created by myself, and will not blame or accuse anyone of creating my karma through judging or wishing me harm Yeah...that's pretty obvious.
sotagoon Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 (edited) I think the moral of the story is this: If you honestly feel that you gave your husband a chance, and I mean by communicating "CLEARLY" what was bothering you, then ending a marriage/relationship is just the next step. If, however, making the decision to cheat/go behind his back was made INSTEAD (Easy way out) of honoring your commitment, then THAT is what is "Ch!cken*****". If giving in to temptation is a person's answer to the "Issue", then they are not really commited in the first place. I mean, why get married, or h3ll, why even commit to someone. Isn't the point of a commitment to work through prolems as they arise?....Using the strengths of each other to work together....each with their part in the solution. In my mind.....thats how love grows. That's how two people become MORE in love over time. My hardest days (post break-up) are when I realize that my dream of being with her when I'm 50, 60, 70...etc and still loving her like I did from the beginning is in danger or not possible. I think some days I'm troubled by this because I was giving everything that I had to the situation, and sometimes felt like it wasn't good enough for her.....Complements, intimacy, and respect is what is the foundation of real love.....Not break-neck excitement an thrill....I mean come on...is there anyone who can sustain that for 10-20-30 years non-stop? So what, when one partner has a set-back, be it in work, health, whatever.....they are all of a sudden not worth it any more?....because they aren't the bag of fireworks they were at the beginning? Women seem to want love and affection...to be desired. Men seem to want respect and appreciation. REMEMBER to be honest with yourself when looking for outside soulutions to one's unhappiness.....the ouside help should just be a set of directions.....not someone else to do the work to get there....advice or a map if you will....not a chauffeur. Karma, retribution, whatever you will call it......"The choices we make, determine the life we lead"............If when someone asks you about your past, and you can answer without ANY "SPIN"...and feel good about it....I think you will be able to find happiness. Let's just say that your NEW man and you DON'T work out....would you be able to confidently tell another man that you: Cheated on your ex-husband with someone, then left him, and then realized that it wasn't going to work out with the one you left for?....and expect him to be OK with that?..and respect you for that? Best of luck..TRUE happiness is hard to find.....and even HARDER to keep! Edited June 9, 2010 by sotagoon
You Go Girl Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 I think the moral of the story is this: If you honestly feel that you gave your husband a chance, and I mean by communicating "CLEARLY" what was bothering you, then ending a marriage/relationship is just the next step. Exactly sotagoon! There are plenty of men on this forum that their wives were WAS, and without warning, and there are hurt jaded men because of it, and I can't blame them. But each situation is unique. To lump all women together on this forum that are in a separation, isn't fair. MsV, it sure sounds like she has tried for years. Myself, I have told him what the problems were for 5.5 years now, and he has basically laughed in my face. Every story is a unique one, no matter how much it appears to be similar to others on LS. We have to listen and pay attention to the differences in each. To blindly accuse, judge, and subsequently attack, all women who leave their spouses is just a sad way to lump us all together to vent pain. We have to listen to every story here! No sweeping generalizations!
Passion4Life Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 Actually, this line of hers does sound like trouble in her soul. She is obviously hurt by her marriage ending, even with the OM in her life. Therefore, there's a lot of built up resentment, anger, and frustration over those 18 years. That she is upset that her H isn't chasing her reveals one very important thing: that she still loves him to some degree. Now she is going to have to experience the pain of a divorce while at the same time struggling to maintain a secret relationship with the OM who is also hurting--and hurting quite a bit from what she posted. The two of them have to deal with the demise of their marriages, and yet not destroy their love for each other AT THE SAME TIME, and that is going to be very difficult. That she was unable to communicate fully enough to be understood and the differences worked out positively in the marriage is the issue here, because every relationship is tested, and her relationship with her new OM will be tested too. Communication is key. They have an upward battle ahead of them. And like i said earlier, I don't think tragedy atop tragedy is something I want to witness, not even somewhat detached from it on a forum where I don't know them in real life. She is obviously hurt by her marriage ending, even with the OM in her life. Therefore, there's a lot of built up resentment, anger, and frustration over those 18 years. That she is upset that her H isn't chasing her reveals one very important thing: that she still loves him to some degree. You Go Girl , well I think your above post is really not true , I am not saying she has done right or wrong but in this situation I can see the only victims are her husband whom she dumped for OM & kids . I really dont see any reason for her to be hurt when she had absolutely no problem having an affair , telling her husband that she can never love him , have zero interests in even try to repair her marriage , & now going to dump her 18 yrs husband to be with her lover . Yet you think she is sufferring because she can't be with OM openly for sometime & it doesn't matter what she did to her husband ? Basically you are encouraging her to do whatever she wants , just keep acting like a victim. Best of luck
Author ironfist Posted June 11, 2010 Author Posted June 11, 2010 I'm don't going to make a whole lot of commentary remarks about the morality or immorality of the situation/affair. I will say this though? The person you are today, isn't the same person that you were eighteen years ago. Just as you won't be the same person eighteen years from now as you are today? To be honest about it? People most especially men shouldn't get married in theses days and times (2010) prior to the age of thirty, (for women the actual physical age could maybe be two or three years less, as women are generally about ten years more emotionally more mature than men) Logistically you've really screwed up. People with years upon years of experience and advanced degrees cannot find jobs in this economy. A co-worker's early thirty something year old son with a degree in computer engineering and with over ten years with IBM (he got laid off) has been forced to move back in with his parents and his wife and 1-1/2 year old GF. Its going to be really tough for you to find a job having been a SAHM for the last eighteen years. Finally? Why would want to get with someone who's a "cheater" ~ if he's willing to cheat on his wife with you? He'll be just as willing to cheat on you later down the road. If you believe this is "true ever-lasting, forever and ever love?" Then I want to try some of that stuff that your smoking. There's no such thing. There is such a thing as two people willing to work at becoming a couple, maintaining and doing the work to make each other ~ each other priority, to openly communicate with one another and express each other's wants and needs. I'm not saying that yours and the OM's marriages weren't doomed ~ they certainly were ~ its not a question of "if" but when they were destined to end? The OM is not the answers to the questions, nor the solutions to the problems in your life. The oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico is nothing compared to the mess the you and the OM have created. And if you think sneaking around until the divorces are final and the EX's have found someone more compatible to their personalities? You are very mistaken. I was forced by my boss (a retired Army National Guard Master Sergeant who had served in Vietnam) to go and seek help for my "drinking problem" I wasn't going into work drunk, just hung over for about the first two hours of my shift. It was either that or lose my job? Now, I tell you this I'm seeing a psychologist because the reason for my drinking was the cumulative effects of what I've lived through since basically 1975 when I first enlisted into the United States Marine Corps. It was and has been the cumulative serendipity's (One thing leads to another that leads to another that lead to yet another) effects of the last thirty years that have lead me to become and be the person that I am today. In April when I first went to see him? I had to take a pyschological test that cost $600 ~ that my insurance covered 4/5th of. It came back that I was depressed, had anxiety disorder, and PTSD, had hyper-attention disorder, and at some point had experience some a traumatic life threatening event (Jeez! Really after only twenty plus years in the freaking Marine Corps?) My point in telling you all of this? Your in "affair fog" You've got some "stinkin' thinkin'" going on. I'm not saying you should stay with the DH, but the OM isn't the answer either. And you should be up front with the DH because the deceit and lies are going to hurt him way more than the actual truth. If you proceed with the OM ~ well that's nothing but a train wreck waiting to happening. The answers lie within yourself not with the STBXH nor the OM. Your trying to seek and find external validation when you should be seeking internal validation of your own self worth. That is to say when you've been alone and on your own for awhile ~ don't need a man for anything other than companionship? That's when you get the thumbs up and are good to go! Tell the OM to go back to his wife, leave your DH the proper way, AND go out there on your own and find yourself. Who you are? What your about? What you want to do with your life? Who do want to be? Who do you want to become? What are you passions ~ and what are you passionate about? Discover yourself ~ and who and what you are? And that's much more than the sum of being a woman, a mother, a lover or a wife! Cheers for that, and i agree with u..............i am alone at the moment, i only see OM once a week for chats.............the trouble is i love him and i could maybe go back to my husband, but om is always gonna be on my mind...............he left his wife cause she was a physco, but i giuess he would of stayed plodded on for the kids sake, like me! thanks again though, know were ur coming from x
Author ironfist Posted June 11, 2010 Author Posted June 11, 2010 You're right on, Gunny. Two people found some happiness, whether that happiness will survive, thrive, or tragically fall apart is yet to be known. Others will suffer for their choice. But what's done is done, and these two people now need to see if they can make it work, because tragedy atop of tragedy is not what I would want to see come out of any story. 18 years is a long time. There's a lot of history there, and to try to rewrite the next year, the last year, isn't going to be easy to keep the two stories separate, one a reality, the other the story they make up to spare other's feelings. OP-I think you will be found out long before you decide to disclose the truth. The truth has a way of being found, as if it wants to be. I can understand keeping this arrangement secretive for the time being, but another year of this isn't going to work. People will see you out and about, or something will happen that completely lets this cat out of the bag. Good luck, and I hope that you can find the strength to help each other love without being consumed by guilt, because guilt could come back to haunt this new love. So the two of you have to be truly supportive to each other; no funny business, no lies, no half-ass attempts at love. Eventually you are going to have to simply admit that this love affair was going on. Your to be ex husband, his to be ex wife, they aren't stupid and will put the pieces of the puzzle together. Do take good care of those kids, all of them. It is often the kids who suffer most. And be kind to your ex-spouses, even when they are not kind to you. Thanks for that, really appreciate it, and ur right.........all i know is i feel in my heart this is my soulmate and i know i cant let him go..........all we care about now is helping the other partners and making sure all kis (5) are happy and looked after..........x
bestplayer Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 Thanks for that, really appreciate it, and ur right.........all i know is i feel in my heart this is my soulmate and i know i cant let him go..........all we care about now is helping the other partners and making sure all kis (5) are happy and looked after..........x It seems the number of good & faithful women is deteriorating pretty badly .
lkjh Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 Cheating aside, because I agree it is wrong and I am sure she does not feel good about it at all... what you are saying is, SHE is the one who holds the responsibility for making the marriage work. Her soon to be ex, however, holds no such responsibility. It was ok for him to just 'coast' and go with the flow. Granted, no one is responsible for making the other happy but marriage is work. That said, I do believe the troubling couple should always try everything to make it work before deciding to part ways. Providing that BOTH parties actually dot that. You cant out the cheating aside because it is directly leading to her destroying these families. She cheated, lied to her H and family, is leaving her H to be with the OM, and lied about why they are breaking up How exactly is her H coasting through this? He has no idea what is going on When she spread her legs(sounds graphic but true) for another man, she became 100% responsible for destroying the marriage
lkjh Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 Thanks for that, really appreciate it, and ur right.........all i know is i feel in my heart this is my soulmate and i know i cant let him go..........all we care about now is helping the other partners and making sure all kis (5) are happy and looked after..........x hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah, are you joking? All you care about is helping the other partners,hahahahhahahahaaha If you cared about the guy that stood by your side for almost two decades you would have divorced him first. what do you really think that none of this is ever going to come out?
Steadfast Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 wow, it really is amazing how this site never fails to disgust me. what you did to your H and kids is horrible you split up t families so you can bang your child's friends father I'm inclined to agree. My latest pet peeve is the line about people 'changing'. I can only speak for myself, but since I was about 10 or 11, I'm remained the same. I have the same voice, like (or learn to like) the same things and love who and what I used to love. Yes, experience and time has taught me a lot, but I am who I am. Truth is, it's an excuse to go back on the promises you made. It's an out that no one can challenge because it's _you_. And while I'm sure that there are many is this world that have made hasty decisions or made them before they were fully mature, it is the unsuspecting partner who pays the bill. What's the old saying? Times change, people don't? I believe it.
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