paddington bear Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 Thanks for the reply Downtown. That was all very informative. Well, I did try my best with my former friend. I could see what was happening and he seemed utterly blind to it and in total denial and as this was his ex-wife I didn't want to interfere too much on their private relationship, so was polite about what I said (at first), trying to be fair. In the meantime she was behaving in an absolutely crazy way towards me, so I had my own problems to deal with regarding her. Finally, she got so bad towards me, that I no longer cared about sticking my nose in where it wasn't wanted and stopped ignoring the elephant in the room and did drop a book on men in emotionally abusive relationships into him, with the chapter on BPD bookmarked. He kept that for a week, I got it back with a note telling me that 'you are insane'. Which I responded to by saying that I could see he was getting himself back into an incredibly dysfunctional situation and I'd given it to him because I cared about him, but so be it, friendship over as I couldn't cope with her any more and he had sided with her against me. Wrong timing. I guess if I'd got to him sooner, before I knew her and when he was humming and haawing about whether to go back to her or not, it might have had some impact and got the cogs of his rational brain working. By the time I knew her in person and saw the reality he was totally back under her thrall again and I was too late. In any case that was the last communication between us. I couldn't keep him in my life without his controlling other half also being there, that was the sudden new deal and as she caused untold problems and hurt for me, I got such a turn against her that I nearly felt physically sick being in her presence (at one point during one of her directed at me crazy episodes all I wanted to do was smash her face in just to make her STOP (when you feel like that, it's best to remove yourself from the person who drives you to utter distraction and thoughts of violence). I tend towards the care-giver co-dependent type myself and tend to cling on in there far too long myself, but even I cannot understand how such a nice, decent guy could actually love someone who treated him so badly and caused such endless trouble and drama and fights. How can you love someone who clearly does not love you. Love is not about control and domination. She tells him he's useless and blames him for problems she's caused and makes him feel guilty and he believes her (she did this to me too, and I did start questioning myself). Her methods have a strong parallel with brainwashing, getting you late at night when you are tired and repeating the same thing over and over and over until your brain just takes what she says as truth. Before our friendship ended he kept repeating that 'she can change', so I guess a) he knows damn well that there is something very wrong and b) he is in total denial and lives in the vain hope that things will get different. Another statistic is that people with a BPD partner tend to leave that partner 7 times, and then go back to them and around the 7th time they finally leave for good (hence my advice to Bob to stick to his guns and not let his now ex make him believe that the next time things will be different). Think my former friend left her 3 times now and gone back. From what you wrote about the mirroring thing, it now makes sense. I was watching her claim to like this and that and be interested in this and that and thinking "no, you're not!". So I guess that luring in cycle is repeated everytime the relationship splits up. I guess it is about 17 months since she got him back under her control - maybe next month will be the charm, but I dunno, I think he's there for life. Repeatedly leaving an unhealthy relationship and going back into it thinking things will change is highly dysfunctional and seems like a form of addiction to abuse. What a shame though, he is like a ghost of his former self. It is an incredibly scary thing to see. One person utterly controlled by another, like a puppet. It was utterly heartbreaking to witeness that happening and also to be so powerless to do anything about it. And yes, she thinks she is perfect, that there is nothing wrong with her. When she causes untold damage to others with her actions and words, it is always someone else's fault and not hers. Not a hope in hell she would even admit she has a problem, let alone go to therapy. I was the one who ended up in therapy because of her. And this is why I ended up reading a lot about this disorder, I niavely thought there was some key in dealing with her and not getting upset or triggering her. But when I found out that therapy tends not to work, or is abandoned by BPD'ers and that as it's psychological damage and not brain chemistry, that drugs are no help either, I simply bailed. The only way of dealing with her was to surgically remove myself from her. She lives nearby. I still dread seeing her on the street. I wish someone would lock her away in a mental hospital forever. She seems to infect everyone she comes in contact with so much miseray and confusion that IMO she would be better off permanently locked away from other human beings. (as you can see, I'm still not quite over my anger about what she did to me!) Anyway, thanks for the information. I think my former friend has been with her on and off for about 10 years now...only another 5 to go! I know we will never speak again (I could never trust someone again who is so easily manipulated by another person - too likely to behave that way again with some other abusive person), but even with all the hurt and pain and the destruction of our relationship due to his crazy other half, I still would love to hear one day through the grapvine that he had left her once and for all. I would raise a glass of wine to him and wish him well. He is a nice person and I think like you and Bob (as you pointed out about the co-dependency seen as being weak) it is that he is trying to do the right thing and be a good man that has got him in this situation in the first place. I hope after 15 years of putting in every effort to make your relationship work, and how it eventually ended that you have met or will meet someone deserving of your love and genuine care. I wonder how bob is getting on. I hope getting his stuff has not been too nightmarish and that he has stuck to his guns.
Downtown Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 I guess if I'd got to him sooner, before I knew her and when he was humming and haawing about whether to go back to her or not, it might have had some impact....Paddington, please don't beat yourself up over not being able to save him. In some respects, your tendency to blame yourself for his bad choices is not unlike his codependent behavior of blaming himself for his exW's mistakes. But you already know that because you are sufficiently self aware to recognize that you have a bit of codependency too. There was really nothing you could have done other than giving him the book. Once he was subjected to the six months of mirroring, adoration, and passionate sex, he was hooked. For a man who is highly codependent, that feeling of being God-like and a savior on a white horse is so addictive that he likely will be willing to spend a lifetime of trying to restore those golden moments -- which she will dispense every few weeks -- whatever is needed to keep him hooked. But, yes, you can always hope it will end at the 15-year mark, as it did with me.I still dread seeing her on the street. I wish someone would lock her away in a mental hospital forever.In my experience, the best way to get rid of that irrational anger -- and it is irrational -- is to get a better understanding of two things. First, understand that a toxic relationship that has been going on (and off) for ten years is the fault of two people, not just one. That is, the toxicity is not something that SHE is doing to him. Rather, it is something they are doing to each other and both people are being harmed. Her role in the toxicity is obvious. His is less so. Essentially, he is harming her by continuing to be a soothing object so she never has to learn how to do her own self soothing. By walking on eggshells (and thus not being his true self), he is enabling her to avoid confronting her disorder and learning to manage it. Moreover, because he loves her, he poses a continual threat of abandonment (in her mind) and thus is a frequent trigger for releasing her rages -- something that casual friends and complete strangers likely very rarely do. Second, understand the suffering that BPDers do 24/7. What helped me a lot was participating on a BPD forum that has many BPDers as members. Because nearly all BPDers are ego syntonic (i.e., unable to see their responsibility for the damage occurring around them), you may never meet a BPDer in your personal life who is sufficiently self aware to know she has the disorder -- much less be able to talk candidly about it. But you can meet dozens of them online. That is what I did for six months -- just exchanging posts and messages with them. What I learned is that, even for those rare individuals who are self aware enough to seek treatment, life is so painful and frightening that you would not wish this disorder on your worst enemy. They talked about how they have a continual emptiness inside, not knowing who they are -- and not even knowing what things they will like a few days from now. What was especially sad were the many days on that forum when I was the first to welcome new BPDer members who were only 16 and 17 years old. Their descriptions of their own tortured lives were simply heartbreaking to read. And, as you likely already know, 70% of BPDers were abused in early childhood. My exW, for example, was sexually abused for years by her own father. It therefore is critically important for people like us to not do one thing that adds to their suffering. Not one thing. And, with you being a bit of a codependent caretaker, you already know that too. Remember, every time you see her on the street, you can walk away from this pernicious disorder. She cannot.
paddington bear Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 yup i know the co-dependent care-giver thing is there in me for sure. And yes, I realise that it takes two to tango. It was not just watching my friend, a former 'normal' person change beyond descripion under her influence, it was what she did to me personally that has caused such lingering resentment. For reasons too long to go into, and due to sheer bad luck, I was kind of trapped for a long time unable to escape her, and her behaviour escaled to such a degree that I actually went to the police to see if I could charge her with harrassment. Not out of maliciousness. To find some way to simply make her stop what she was doing because my own mental health was under severe threat due to her behaviour. I don't want to see her on the street because I'm scared of her. She's incredibly confrontational and likes to be the centre of attention and does this by causing either drama or an argument (my therapist suspects BPD and narcissistic personality disorder rolled into one). I'm scared of her anger and scared because she tosses out incredibly dangerous lies on the spur of the moment that could land a person in major trouble. I'm also still angry because I'm still suffereing the after effects of having her come into my life. Financial, emotional and otherwise. A massive upheaval was required on my part to remove myself from her and my life is still a bit of a mess due to this. I have tried to feel sorry for her, rather than be angry. But have not hit that stage yet. And may never. She caused me too much damage in so many ways (I guess I had her for only half a year, and I started to lose my mind, so it seems boggling to me how my former friend can bear it for over 10 years. But then, I think he has lost his mind. He has simply shut down, bodily present, but his soul/brain is has left the building). Ultimately, I am simply happy to no longer have any dealings with her, but sad that a genuinely decent person has voluntarily gone back into an incredibly abusive relationship with her. What is a shame, as you mentioned is that the majority of BPD sufferers were abused as children, and as such it is a pity that there seems to be no viable treatment for them. Members of the therapeutic community have not seemed to be able to find a breakthrough for all the symptoms that you mentioned. Which is why, for a young guy like the OP, I think it is important to look after number one and realise that the behaviour will most unlikely not change even if he gives it enough time and understanding and the best thing to do is remove himself before his own mental health is threatened.
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