Is prositition being illegal/frowned upon the reason why women hold so much power?

June 8, 2010

Serious question here.

Yes, I already know that although prostitution is illegal that lots of guys go out and get it anyway. But the problem here is that I would say that if prostitution was completely legal that at least 10x the men would go out and get it every once in awhile while single.

There is also the shame part of getting a prostitute. In this country, you are looked down on for "having" to get a prostitute while in lots of other countries where its legal there is no shame of going to the red light district if you strike out at the bars for the night.

Because of this, I think, women really have men by the balls in this country. They have the power to completely lock you out of any kind of sexual encounters (if you want to remain a law abiding citizen) if you don't meet their long laundry list of demands.

Also, do you notice how in most other countries where prostitution is legal, they don't really have the dating problems we have? Think most Asian countries and Latin countries. Most women over there are lining up for decent guys and they don't need to be male models to make them happy.

Just a thought after spending the better part of a day doing some research.

I have lived in countries with legal red light districts, and I can assure you that most people think guys who visit hookers are creepy or losers.

1st off is it really that hard to find a one night hook up just for sex? in this day and age. Also I agree with Ruby its legal over here but its still not something guys are proud of nor the working girls! I think anytime some one pays for sex theres always a stigma around it.

June 8, 2010

Sorry, but I don't see it. The fact a woman won't sleep with you doesn't mean she has "power" over you. It just means she has power over her own body, the right to decide who she'll have sex with and who she won't. How can that be unfair?

Exactly. This thread is remarkably nauseating. And I'm even for the legalization of prostitution.

How dare women reject men and not let any man who feels like having sex with her use her body?! By asserting her right to keep her legs closed, she's holding everyone by the balls!

June 8, 2010

Also, do you notice how in most other countries where prostitution is legal, they don't really have the dating problems we have? Think most Asian countries and Latin countries. Most women over there are lining up for decent guys and they don't need to be male models to make them happy.

Just a thought after spending the better part of a day doing some research.

This is perhaps the most ignorant statement I have ever read. 'Most Latin and Asian countries'?! Sheesh.

June 8, 2010

To address the original question - I don't think it's prostitution. I live in Europe and I think that it is cultural differences stemming from the religious backgrounds of the people who moved to the States. (although very recently a male friend was talking about going to a prostitute for the very same reasons you mentioned)

A German friend of mine always used to giggle watching Sarah Jessica Parker in Sex and the City and tut : Americans! Who has sex with someone wearing their bra? And wakes up wearing their bra? (I know JSP had it written into her contract not to do nudity...but it just an example that breasts are not something to be ashamed of and it is not dirty or bad to show them on tv).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that American society when it comes to dating is built on old-fashioned principles. You woo the girl, bring her flowers, date her, be respectful and then eventually you might get to have sex and then you marry her and settle down. However, the world has moved on, but you are still stuck within this rigid notion of male/female dynamics when it comes to dating. (I will admit though, I love American men because they actually try to pick you up and talk to you - so we could do with some of that where I am).

Prostitutes scratch the itch when it comes to the sexual urge. I haven't been on LS for months, however, Open GL, I've read older posts of yours and I think what you need is some validation from some woman that you like out there and not just sex. Sex is not the issue with you, trying and failing and feeling less and less attractive or worthy is the issue. To have some girl say 'yes' give you her number, meet you etc is what you need, so that you realise 'Yes! I knew I was attractive, now it's been proved.'

June 8, 2010

I promise you, it's not that simple. I understand that unless you've spent time in a cultural setting where women aren't allowed to have sex outside of marriage, what I am saying may seem unbelievable. But it is absolutely true.

Let me go back to my example of Linares, in Nuevo Leon, Mexico. As I said, it is a town of about 40,000 people. And they ALL know each other. No joke. Everybody knows everybody there, and everybody knows everbody else's business.

There is no way a young woman in Linares could, for example, be seen leaving a bar with a man and not have it all over town within a day or two. NO WAY. And once word of what she'd done had gotten out, her life would OVER.

Her father would throw her out of the house and out of the family, probably after beating her within an inch of her life. If she had any brothers, they'd probably beat her up, too. Other girls would avoid her like she had leprosy. So would their families. If she tried to go to school, she'd have no peace. The boys would harass her endlessly, and she might even be raped. I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

In an atmosphere like that, prostitution flourishes. It has to. In a place like that, a guy who visits prostitutes is not a "loser." He's normal. In fact, there's a good chance the first time her ever went to a brothel, he went with his father.

Well this is a lovely picture you are painting of another culture. Not ignorant in the slightest. I am really offended. And ALL 40,000 people know each other? Wow - quite a community...imagine when each of those citizens get married and have to plan for 40,000 at the reception. Must be quite the project.

June 8, 2010

I'm telling ya, it's really not that hard to find a decent female to sleep with... I haven't had any sort of muscle definition since I left the Army, I'll be the first to admit my teeth aren't perfectly straight (but they are clean)... It just takes a bit of social finesse, you don't have to buy them the Winter Palace, you just have to be interested in them. If she tells ya to take a hike, take your business elsewhere, but the majority of women (very attractive women included) will give you the time of day if you actually want to know them, and not because it'll get you sex necessarily... actually, the funny thing is, I've gotten laid more often than not by females who I approached without any actual intent of having sex as soon as possible.

If you're really, really desperate go get ya'self a prostitute, but for the amount of money it's going to cost you to get a 15 minute wank job, you could actually you know...be getting the full night for far less.

Just my thoughts on it.

June 8, 2010

ADF I do agree with some of your earlier statements though - most notably about women having power over their own body, and in your disagreements with the OP. I have Mexican heritage so could not take your earlier post too well!-but re-reading it, I think your motives were positive in posting it - I get what you are trying to say (I think).

June 8, 2010

Ahem prostitution was outlawed by MEN. You know, while their wifeys were at home in the kitchen. Congrats on officially starting the stupidest thread I've seen.

June 8, 2010

Because of this, I think, women really have men by the balls in this country. They have the power to completely lock you out of any kind of sexual encounters (if you want to remain a law abiding citizen)

Right there - in bold is one of the biggest red flags I've ever seen on this board. You resent women for being selective about who they sleep with...and for choosing not to sleep with you. The law is the only thing that stops you from removing from women that right to choose.

I think most men would agree that morally a woman is entitled to make choices as to who she does and doesn't sleep with. That even if there weren't a law preventing rape, an innate sense of decency and empathy would prevent them from taking away from a woman the right to choose. I don't think the law is what prevents the majority of men from molesting women. I think they don't rape because they're decent people.

You're someone who looks at women from the mindset of a potential rapist. There's no sense in your posts of someone who regards women as people who have the right to choose who they allow into their lives and into their bodies. If they don't allow you in, they're being unreasonable and obstructive in your eyes.

Get some help, before you end up attacking some woman. If you haven't already.

June 8, 2010

Well this is a lovely picture you are painting of another culture. Not ignorant in the slightest. I am really offended. And ALL 40,000 people know each other? Wow - quite a community...imagine when each of those citizens get married and have to plan for 40,000 at the reception. Must be quite the project.

Look, I've lived there. I know the people, I've seen things like this happen. Do you? Have you? I don't think so. So don't call me ignorant.

Of course not all those 40,000 LITERALLY know each other. What I meant is that it is a very tight-knit community with very strong informal controls on peoples' behavior. There are plenty of wonderful people in Linares, plenty of wonder things about the place. People there look out for each other, take care of each other. There is much to like about it.

However, that same tight-knittedness has negative aspects as well. And it is a fairly conservative area when it comes to sexual norms. In a big city like New York or Chicago, no one cares what other people do sexually. The sexual revolution that opened up sexual options for people in the US never happened in Mexico. That means that in many parts of that country, old-fashioned norms still prevail, and are sometimes brutally enforced.

I can tell you a true story about a wedding that took place in Valladolid, in the Yucatan, where my stepfather was born. This was in the mid-1990s. A young man and a young woman, both from prominant families, decided to marry. They had a lavish wedding. Later that night, the groom literally dragged the bride back to her parents' house in a fit of rage and said he was divorcing her. Why? He'd found out she wasn't a virgin.

June 8, 2010

This is hilarious!

First of all, the prostitutes in the brothels in mexico are almost never there because they want to be. Dire financial situations, drugs, or plain old abduction account for all of them. They are not respected or accepted in the community what so ever, and while some men frequent them, it is by no means what respectable people do.

Second of all, even if prostitution were fully legal, the women would still have the right to tell someone who was rude, crude, unclean, or made them uncomfortable no, and usually she would have security with her to make the man stop and leave.

Third, you cannot have a relationship with a prostitute. She will only do what you want if you pay the price. She will not marry you, she will not bear your kids, and she is not interested in you at all. That doesn't sound any less empty than turning to porn and masturbation for sexual release, except that masturbation typically isn't as dangerous.

fourth, you guys who seems to think that women have it easy and relish holding the power to withhold sex over men are creeps. The same guys here who are complaining about not getting enough easy sex are the ones on anther thread claiming that all easy women cheat and that if a woman is sexually free she will cheat on him and is not worthy of a relationship.

The problem in the situation is not women. Women have the right and the responsibility to choose who and when and why they have sex with another person. No one owes you men sex.

June 8, 2010

Exactly. This thread is remarkably nauseating. And I'm even for the legalization of prostitution.

How dare women reject men and not let any man who feels like having sex with her use her body?! By asserting her right to keep her legs closed, she's holding everyone by the balls!

It all goes back to the fact that the OP has somehow gotten the idea that women are obligated to be attracted to him & to sleep with him.

June 8, 2010

Why? Simple. Because in these countries, if a man wants to get laid, he can do so at the end of the night for a measly 50 dollars with a clean, medically regulated, and often times VERY attractive girl (college students and the like). This makes the desperation of men non-existent, which means women in these countries no matter what they look like, are really flattered when they get male interest and have a broader view of what makes an attractive man (he doesnt necessarily have to be 6 feet tall with a six pack) due to the fact that men aren't exactly lining up behind them like in America.

Wow, sounds like a great place. "50 dollars with a clean, medically regulated, and often times VERY attractive girl (college students and the like)." Sounds completely awesome. Desperation in men would be non-existent.

I can't imagine what kind of person I'd be if I was able to get laid every week or so. Right now not only is it illegal I simply can't afford getting $200 hookers which is what clean attractive college type girls cost. At least they did 4 years ago. To do it on a weekly basis is as much as paying rent.

It's actually funny that if I was sexually satisfied by being able to get laid when ever I wanted, even if it meant paying for it; I'd be less desperate, be able to focus more on school/other things that matter, be able to have female friends without wanting to sleep with them and I'd probably have an easier time of getting a girlfriend since I wouldn't put so much value into one person. There would be no fear of rejection because I wouldn't be counting on one person to meet all my desires.

I'm a firm believer that prostitution should be legalized and regulated.

BTW pimps are not needed.

Edited June 8, 2010 by somedude81

June 8, 2010

I have a very basic question for the OP and his supporters.

Doesn't the fact so many women resort to prostitution sort of undermine your theory that woman have us men by the balls? If women are so all-powerful, why do so many of them have to resort to selling their bodies to men?

June 8, 2010

It's actually funny that if I was sexually satisfied by being able to get laid when ever I wanted, even if it meant paying for it; I'd be less desperate, be able to focus more on school/other things that matter, be able to have female friends without wanting to sleep with them and I'd probably have an easier time of getting a girlfriend since I wouldn't put so much value into one person. There would be no fear of rejection because I wouldn't be counting on one person to meet all my desires.

Legal and affordable prostitution as the silver bullet?

Interesting, although I have to say I don't understand it and have a difficult time believing it. Is sex itself really that important to you?

June 9, 2010

I have a very basic question for the OP and his supporters.

Doesn't the fact so many women resort to prostitution sort of undermine your theory that woman have us men by the balls? If women are so all-powerful, why do so many of them have to resort to selling their bodies to men?

The very fact that they can get good money for selling their bodies proves that they have some power. The problem is that some women believer their body is the only thing that they get power from. That's a matter for a different thread.

Legal and affordable prostitution as the silver bullet?

Interesting, although I have to say I don't understand it and have a difficult time believing it. Is sex itself really that important to you?

Short answer. Yes

I made a thread about this issue a few months ago.

Do men need sex to be happy?

Without going into too much detail, my sex life has been abysmal. I lost my virginity at 23 and between then and now (I'm 28) I've only had sex on less than 10 occasions. I've often gone years between having sex and the last time I got any was August 2009. Every time I had sex there was money involved, either a door fee, membership fee, or a "donation." I feel terrible doing it that way, so that's why I end up going a year or more.

In between the times I'm trying to be with girls and I'm making friends and stuff like that but so far "real" girls have wanted nothing to do with me beyond friendship. And that's just not enough.

Edited June 9, 2010 by somedude81

June 9, 2010

The very fact that they can get good money for selling their bodies proves that they have some power.

Nonsense. A horse's body can be used to make money. That doesn't make the horse powerful.

June 9, 2010

Actually, very few women who are prostitutes "make good money". I would argue that NONE go into it as a first line of work. Many are forced into prostitution by "boyfriends" who turn out to be pimps, or by husbands. Others end up prostitutes as a result of attempting to feed a drug habit.

Even so called "high end" prostitutes are there as a last resort. There's an old blogger in the UK called Belle du jour who was blogging about her experience as a high end call girl. While she is very open about the fact that she loves sex, she certainly doesn't make the prostitution business sound fun. And that was in a place where it was legal.

I think you are sadly and sorely mistaken to think that prostitution is a happy thing for the girls who do it. I also think that if you are really THAT inept at meeting women that you need some therapy.

You either do nothing to go out of your way to meet girls, you are incredibly rude and crude with girls, or you have zero social skills for you to be that unlucky. (and just for the record, many many people experience long dry spells, but very few become so bitter towards members of the opposite gender).

June 9, 2010

Nonsense. A horse's body can be used to make money. That doesn't make the horse powerful.

If horses actually got paid and choose to whether they wanted to race or not would have given them power. BTW we are only talking about a certain kind of power. Women undeniable have control over sex, whether it happens or not and with whom. Rape is a different issue that I don't want to get into.

Actually, very few women who are prostitutes "make good money". I would argue that NONE go into it as a first line of work. Many are forced into prostitution by "boyfriends" who turn out to be pimps, or by husbands. Others end up prostitutes as a result of attempting to feed a drug habit.

Even so called "high end" prostitutes are there as a last resort. There's an old blogger in the UK called Belle du jour who was blogging about her experience as a high end call girl. While she is very open about the fact that she loves sex, she certainly doesn't make the prostitution business sound fun. And that was in a place where it was legal.

I think you are sadly and sorely mistaken to think that prostitution is a happy thing for the girls who do it.

There are different types of prostitutes and they each have their own reasons why they started and why they kept doing it. While I'm sure a good number were forced into it or are doing it for a drug habit, many others do it because it is easy money and they may love sex.

I can't think of that many other jobs a girl putting herself through college can do where she makes $300 for an hour of work. If she only had 4 clients in one month then that's $1,200. If she's smart she wouldn't have a pimp or be part of an agency and keep all the profits to herself and can stop whenever she wants.

I also think that if you are really THAT inept at meeting women that you need some therapy.

You either do nothing to go out of your way to meet girls, you are incredibly rude and crude with girls, or you have zero social skills for you to be that unlucky. (and just for the record, many many people experience long dry spells, but very few become so bitter towards members of the opposite gender).

I have been in therapy for several months actually. Mainly about low self-esteem, poor confidence and several cognitive distortions that formed during childhood and got progressively worse as I got older.

I meet plenty of girls at school and when I worked. I also take a Salsa class every semester so I can be around and dance with them. The problem is that girls just aren't attracted to me. Every class, I pick out one or two girls that I like, I try to start talking to them and get to know them. I may become 'friends' with a couple of those and hang out a couple of times. Once I express my interest or try to go on a date, they reject me. Wash, rinse, repeat ad nauseum.

Since I'm actually able to become close friends with girls, I don't think I'm rude/crude or have poor social skills. If I was, would I even be able to make friends?

A long dry spell doesn't even begin to describe my experiences. I still have not been with a girl I even remotely liked or was interested in. If I didn't go way out my way to have sex, doing things I would not be comfortable talking about with anybody in person, I would be a 28 year old virgin. After being rejected by every single girl I have ever liked since I was 13, it's understandable to be bitter.

June 9, 2010

After being rejected by every single girl I have ever liked since I was 13, it's understandable to be bitter.

No it isn't. Sorry, but it just isn't.

Saying your bitterness towards women is "understandable" implies that women owe it to you to be attracted to you. Well, they don't. No one owes it to anyone to have sex with them. Not ever.

Not one woman who ever rejected you did a single thing wrong by doing so. Not one. You have no right whatsoever to feel bitter towards any one of them, or any other woman. The fact you do is evidence of those "cognitive distortions" you mentioned earlier. I am glad you're getting help. You sound like you need it.

June 9, 2010

No it isn't. Sorry, but it just isn't.

Saying your bitterness towards women is "understandable" implies that women owe it to you to be attracted to you.

No it doesn't. It means that I have a right to be bitter, angry, frustrated, depressed etc.

Women owe me nothing. I can't hope to control another person or even understand why they do what they do.

June 9, 2010

Ahem prostitution was outlawed by MEN. You know, while their wifeys were at home in the kitchen. Congrats on officially starting the stupidest thread I've seen.

That's like saying men enacted prohibition while ignoring first wave feminists and the Women's Christian Temperance Movement.

The #1 reason prostitution is outlawed and the age of consent was risen over and over again was to eliminate competition in the sexual marketplace. Women wan their men for themselves, and the specter of them stepping out or finding a younger fresher model to replace them is a terrifying prospect for aging, often unattractive women back then who stood to lose everything if their husbands left them.

June 9, 2010

That's like saying men enacted prohibition while ignoring first wave feminists and the Women's Christian Temperance Movement.

The #1 reason prostitution is outlawed and the age of consent was risen over and over again was to eliminate competition in the sexual marketplace. Women wan their men for themselves, and the specter of them stepping out or finding a younger fresher model to replace them is a terrifying prospect for aging, often unattractive women back then who stood to lose everything if their husbands left them.

I think if you research this with less bias and more thoroughness you will find that the problem of venereal disease becoming rife amongst servicemen who had contracted those diseases from prostitutes played rather more of a factor.

Other factors such as concerns about human trafficking and the use of children in prostitution also provided an impetus for bringing in legislation....but venereal disease, particularly amongst servicemen, was the big concern for the governments of the day.

June 9, 2010

For all the discussion about how men would benefit from legalized sex work and how threatened women are by legal sex work, what about the actual sex workers?

Some comments talk about clean, safe $50 a go prositutes. What is her life like that she is willing to have sex with someone for $50? No matter how much you like sex, having sex with random people isn't going to be super fun. Some people are ugly or just not your type, some people are mean, some people are violent. Sex worker is not some porno fantasy.

And the reason it was outlawed had to do with veneral diseases not women being afraid their husband's would leave them if they could buy sex.

June 9, 2010

I think if you research this with less bias and more thoroughness you will find that the problem of venereal disease becoming rife amongst servicemen who had contracted those diseases from prostitutes played rather more of a factor.

Other factors such as concerns about human trafficking and the use of children in prostitution also provided an impetus for bringing in legislation....but venereal disease, particularly amongst servicemen, was the big concern for the governments of the day.

As well, it was judged as immoral by religious houses in earlier centuries, in the times when the church actually had a say. They were incredibly vocal on this.

Religious houses run by men that in fact had no pesky wives in their ears.

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Is prositition being illegal/frowned upon the reason why women hold so much power?

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