dispatch3d Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 I'm a woman and view 20/20 in EITHER gender as someone with serious emotional issues that they need to address. I think comparing the two genders directly like that is a huge mistake. 20 by 20 is completely different if your a girl as opposed to a guy. Societal pressures being one reason, and the entire interaction being completely different for the two sexes. Guys go out and try to get laid/lucky. Girls go out to "have fun" or "just dance". A hot girl could pretty much get some meaningless sex whenever they want. Only a small portion of guys could say the same (unless its with a warpig or something). If a guy lays 20 girls by the time he's 20 chances are he's very good with women. If a girl lays 20 guys by 20 chances are she's a little slutty. It seems like unfair treatment, but hot girls can get laid when they want to (just with the wrong kind of guy), lots of guys just take what they can get... Very few people are going to look down on guys for 20/20, many people will look down on girls for 20/20. So as a guy, why the hell wouldn't you if you could? cliffs would be: If a girl sleeps with 20 guys by 20 she doesn't screen very carefully. If a guy sleeps with 20 girls by 20 he's either not picky with who he sleeps with, or has his pick of the litter and chooses to shop around.
threebyfate Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 I think comparing the two genders directly like that is a huge mistake. 20 by 20 is completely different if your a girl as opposed to a guy. Societal pressures being one reason, and the entire interaction being completely different for the two sexes. Guys go out and try to get laid/lucky. Girls go out to "have fun" or "just dance". A hot girl could pretty much get some meaningless sex whenever they want. Only a small portion of guys could say the same (unless its with a warpig or something). If a guy lays 20 girls by the time he's 20 chances are he's very good with women. If a girl lays 20 guys by 20 chances are she's a little slutty. It seems like unfair treatment, but hot girls can get laid when they want to (just with the wrong kind of guy), lots of guys just take what they can get... Very few people are going to look down on guys for 20/20, many people will look down on girls for 20/20. So as a guy, why the hell wouldn't you if you could? cliffs would be: If a girl sleeps with 20 guys by 20 she doesn't screen very carefully. If a guy sleeps with 20 girls by 20 he's either not picky with who he sleeps with, or has his pick of the litter and chooses to shop around.That's a whole lotta' justification and victim behaviour in one post. It's moot to me what generalized society thinks. Both genders have emotional issues if they're doing so many people by the time they're 20 years old. On average, both guys and girls lose their virginity by around 16 - 18 years old. Now calculate this. 20/4 years = 5 partners per annum 20/3 years = 6.67 partners per annum 20/2 years = 10 partners per annum That's a median average of 7.22 partners per annum. For someone this young, that's a lot of partners where their emotional level isn't capable of handling not only the emotional aspects of the act itself but also the consequences of the act. So why would these kids, yes kids, be using sex for validation? Why do they need this kind of validation? What's missing in their foundational years to warrant this need for sexual validation?
kdark Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 You guys can judge, huff, and puff about sexually liberated woman all you want. I personally won't waste my time with a girl who isn't comfortable enough with her body or sexuality to enjoy sex for what it is: An enormously fun activity that two adults can engage in. Bottomline, you guys just don't appreciate women's sexuality. Which is fine, because that leaves more sexuality for me to enjoy... It's as if you think that if men don't get to define and control how women's sexuality is perceived, than all hell will break loose. Men go around sleeping with tons of women all the time, and when they want a relationship, they exercise restraint and settle down. Women are people too, and can exersice the same judgement that men can when they want to settle down in a relationship. All this fear about women who are sexually liberated cheat more is just another double standard that needs to go away real quick. Women get labeled negatively, men get labeled positively. It's not fair.
Woggle Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 There are plenty of double standards both ways that are not fair. Men have these standards because they help to ensure that we get the best relationship we can.
Engadget Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 You guys can judge, huff, and puff about sexually liberated woman all you want. I personally won't waste my time with a girl who isn't comfortable enough with her body or sexuality to enjoy sex for what it is: An enormously fun activity that two adults can engage in. Bottomline, you guys just don't appreciate women's sexuality. Which is fine, because that leaves more sexuality for me to enjoy... It's as if you think that if men don't get to define and control how women's sexuality is perceived, than all hell will break loose. Men go around sleeping with tons of women all the time, and when they want a relationship, they exercise restraint and settle down. Women are people too, and can exersice the same judgement that men can when they want to settle down in a relationship. All this fear about women who are sexually liberated cheat more is just another double standard that needs to go away real quick. Women get labeled negatively, men get labeled positively. It's not fair. Being sexually liberated and sleeping around are not the same thing at all.
alyssatranswarrior Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 For real you are ALL pretty stubborn and it makes just about all of you sound judgemental/reverse-judgemental. 1. Women don't own other women's rights, nor the right to choose wether men or women should label men or women anything. That is up to each individual. 2. Men don't own women's rights, and havent for a LONG time! Both women and men need to calm down and realize it is already a FACT that needs no further debate or opinion. Women are equal to men. 3. Female promiscuity or the "slut" debate has NOTHING to do with gender equality or female vs male struggles or ANYTHING. Anyone bringing those issues into the fold when debating, has a) large issues with labels in one's past, or b) Unresolved physchological issues with the opposite sex, thus is not a fully balanced individual. It's especially insulting that a few women on here only comment in a way that assumes it is only men labelling women who sleep around. When its conclusively true that women are in the same fraction of numbers that label other women and cast-out those girls equally or more in some situations (as mentioned by someone above) Its simply a weak argument to say it is about men's fear or want to supress women - of why they would label women a word. For the argument to gain any ground it must get out of that weak and simple place. Can only hope it can. I am talking about western culture only when I comment on the male V female dynamic debate. Coz you know, to be perfectly honest ALL western women have awesome opportunity to be happy healthy, free and to do what they want. Can't say Saudi Arabia is so peachy.
Jersey Shortie Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 If you call women sluts for enjoying sex, then you basically believe a woman shouldn't enjoy her sexuality UNLESS, it invovles you. That's not about ensuring bs claims of respectibility. It's about male insecurity being unable to deal with the fact that women like sex and can indulge in it outside the pretense of a man wanting to think he is the only one ever to rock her world. Grow-up guys. Calling women "sluts" for liking sex is exceedingly stupid. Women like sex. Deal with it. Can't have it both ways where you want women to be wild sex cats for *you* but not have a healthy full on sex drive as well. If you're a man or woman that calls women negative sexual names then you're basically saying you don't think women deserve to be sexual people. And that bemoans your own personal emotional issues.
Chicago_Guy Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 You guys can judge, huff, and puff about sexually liberated woman all you want. I personally won't waste my time with a girl who isn't comfortable enough with her body or sexuality to enjoy sex for what it is: An enormously fun activity that two adults can engage in. Bottomline, you guys just don't appreciate women's sexuality. Which is fine, because that leaves more sexuality for me to enjoy... It's as if you think that if men don't get to define and control how women's sexuality is perceived, than all hell will break loose. Men go around sleeping with tons of women all the time, and when they want a relationship, they exercise restraint and settle down. Women are people too, and can exersice the same judgement that men can when they want to settle down in a relationship. All this fear about women who are sexually liberated cheat more is just another double standard that needs to go away real quick. Women get labeled negatively, men get labeled positively. It's not fair. It is easy for you to write those words, but how many guys are actually capable of having sex with a lot of attractive women? There are few guys who can pull that off. What a lot of guys think is happening is that maybe 10% of guys are getting lots of sex with women. A lot of those women get played for awhile and then eventually want one of the other 90% of men to settle down with. However, the men in the other 90% usually don't want one of the women who was promiscuous because those men never engaged in that lifestyle either because they didn't have the opportunity to do so or didn't want to partake for whatever reason. Many of the 90% of men view the promiscuous women as immoral or damaged in some way.
dispatch3d Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 (edited) That's a whole lotta' justification and victim behaviour in one post. It's moot to me what generalized society thinks. Both genders have emotional issues if they're doing so many people by the time they're 20 years old. On average, both guys and girls lose their virginity by around 16 - 18 years old. Now calculate this. 20/4 years = 5 partners per annum 20/3 years = 6.67 partners per annum 20/2 years = 10 partners per annum That's a median average of 7.22 partners per annum. For someone this young, that's a lot of partners where their emotional level isn't capable of handling not only the emotional aspects of the act itself but also the consequences of the act. So why would these kids, yes kids, be using sex for validation? Why do they need this kind of validation? What's missing in their foundational years to warrant this need for sexual validation? Jesus, they're using sex for validation? You mean they are having sex with many partners for no apparent reason? They must have sex addiction and there has to be mental problems involved. Maybe watch the episode of south park on sex addiction/Tiger Woods. And no I don't see how it's completely different. And comparing girls directly to guys is silly. We are wired completely differently. It's like comparing a van to a superstore. They are two totally different things (even though the two interact). Edited July 6, 2010 by dispatch3d
Engadget Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 If you call women sluts for enjoying sex, then you basically believe a woman shouldn't enjoy her sexuality UNLESS, it invovles you. That's not about ensuring bs claims of respectibility. It's about male insecurity being unable to deal with the fact that women like sex and can indulge in it outside the pretense of a man wanting to think he is the only one ever to rock her world. Grow-up guys. Calling women "sluts" for liking sex is exceedingly stupid. Women like sex. Deal with it. Can't have it both ways where you want women to be wild sex cats for *you* but not have a healthy full on sex drive as well. If you're a man or woman that calls women negative sexual names then you're basically saying you don't think women deserve to be sexual people. And that bemoans your own personal emotional issues. Liking sex and being a slut are not the same thing either. Having sex with double-digit partners by the time you're twenty or so is a bit excessive, and doesn't necessarily just say they like sex. It says a lot of other things. Having sex a thousand times with 5 partners in LTR doesn't make one a slut, having sex with everyone does, male or female. What's so hard to understand about this concept?
dispatch3d Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 Liking sex and being a slut are not the same thing either. Having sex with double-digit partners by the time you're twenty or so is a bit excessive, and doesn't necessarily just say they like sex. It says a lot of other things. Having sex a thousand times with 5 partners in LTR doesn't make one a slut, having sex with everyone does, male or female. What's so hard to understand about this concept? Males arent programmed for the above. They are programmed biologically to have sex with as many possible mates as possible to ensure that their genes are passed on. Humans have not evolved beyond this trait. Hence guys want to **** everything that moves on an instinctual level. Calling us sluts because god made us that way seems very hypocritical.
flying Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 Males arent programmed for the above. They are programmed biologically to have sex with as many possible mates as possible to ensure that their genes are passed on. ...[snip] Calling us sluts because god made us that way seems very hypocritical. Huh. Someone is biologically/theologically confused about which sexist philosophy to go with. Funny how they both work out for you though.
TheBigQuestion Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 (edited) I think comparing the two genders directly like that is a huge mistake. 20 by 20 is completely different if your a girl as opposed to a guy. Societal pressures being one reason, and the entire interaction being completely different for the two sexes. Guys go out and try to get laid/lucky. Girls go out to "have fun" or "just dance". A hot girl could pretty much get some meaningless sex whenever they want. Only a small portion of guys could say the same (unless its with a warpig or something). If a guy lays 20 girls by the time he's 20 chances are he's very good with women. If a girl lays 20 guys by 20 chances are she's a little slutty. It seems like unfair treatment, but hot girls can get laid when they want to (just with the wrong kind of guy), lots of guys just take what they can get... Very few people are going to look down on guys for 20/20, many people will look down on girls for 20/20. So as a guy, why the hell wouldn't you if you could? cliffs would be: If a girl sleeps with 20 guys by 20 she doesn't screen very carefully. If a guy sleeps with 20 girls by 20 he's either not picky with who he sleeps with, or has his pick of the litter and chooses to shop around. This is similar to what I've written in tons of threads here on LS, yet I always get labeled as misogynistic to some degree or another for doing so. It's an uphill battle trying to convince anyone here, especially the women, that men and women are psychologically and physiologically different enough where their sexual choices can be made for different reasons and can (often rightfully) have asymmetric consequences. Now, I wouldn't necessarily "respect" a guy for having slept with 20 women by the time he was the age of 20, but I have to admit that being able to have done so is an impressive feat, if only you recognize how many guys go through life with virtually no sexual partners, most of whom don't do so by choice. The bottom line is, and always has been, that women generally have a MUCH easier time getting just sex (if that's what they so desire), and that women generally have MUCH more to lose as a result of promiscuous behavior. When you take these two factors into account, it makes a woman sleeping with 20 guys by the time she's 20 to not be impressive, and by extension to certainly not be respectable. Again, I don't deny that rampant promiscuity has roots in psychological disorders for BOTH men and women. Some people later in this thread were trying to deny that promiscuity and cheating correlate. This is absurd beyond belief. You don't become promiscuous by staying faithful to one or a small amount of partners just BY THE DEFINITION of the word. Edited July 6, 2010 by TheBigQuestion
TheBigQuestion Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 Liking sex and being a slut are not the same thing either. Having sex with double-digit partners by the time you're twenty or so is a bit excessive, and doesn't necessarily just say they like sex. It says a lot of other things. Having sex a thousand times with 5 partners in LTR doesn't make one a slut, having sex with everyone does, male or female. What's so hard to understand about this concept? Exactly. Sexual desire and sexual promiscuity do not go hand in hand, and are certainly not synonymous.
Engadget Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 Males arent programmed for the above. They are programmed biologically to have sex with as many possible mates as possible to ensure that their genes are passed on. Humans have not evolved beyond this trait. Hence guys want to **** everything that moves on an instinctual level. Calling us sluts because god made us that way seems very hypocritical. Well god didn't make us any way, but besides that it seems to be kind of an excuse. We have free will, and there's no reason to **** everything that walks nowadays, and no reason to have a million children.
Mary3 Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 You see alot of cats cant appreciate what you said because they really cant handle a real woman thats a slut they are really only fascinated with all the sluttery goin on! I like when a fly slut thats been around the town lets me punish that sweetness some more!! I love and respect the institute of sluttery, matter fact let me go find some new slut! This post makes no sense....Troll... Me thinks you have no sexual experience to even be posting on this ...
Jersey Shortie Posted July 7, 2010 Posted July 7, 2010 Engadget: Liking sex and being a slut are not the same thing either. Having sex with double-digit partners by the time you're twenty or so is a bit excessive, and doesn't necessarily just say they like sex. It says a lot of other things. Having sex a thousand times with 5 partners in LTR doesn't make one a slut, having sex with everyone does, male or female. What's so hard to understand about this concept?[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][/FONT] Actually, liking sex and being a "slut" is the same thing for many men as shown in this thread. You men want it both ways. You want sexual wild cats in bed that cater to your every whim but how dare she indulge herself with other men before *you*. It's all ego talking. And that is why men try to tear women down and call them names for their sexual practices. Now, it's one think to not want a partner with a certain number of sexual partners. That's fine. But you cross a line from mere personal preference to outfight controlling women's sexuality when you put the any negatively sexual name towards women just because *you* don't like their choices. Get over your own ego. Men call women "sluts" to control their behavior. That's the ONLY reason it's done. You don't want a woman with a certain number or sexual partners? Fine. But when you cross that line and make the choice to refer to women in negative sexual names for how they live their life that has nothing to do with you, your showing your own insecurities. And as for your assertion that it's not right for men or women, well men don't get called names for sexually indulging themselves. Women do all the time. So lets not pretend that men are nearly as judged or called names for indulging themselves sexually. You want stand up girls that practice what you preach? Then you must practice it too. Dispatch3d: Males arent programmed for the above. They are programmed biologically to have sex with as many possible mates as possible to ensure that their genes are passed on. Humans have not evolved beyond this trait. Hence guys want to **** everything that moves on an instinctual level. Calling us sluts because god made us that way seems very hypocritical. Ugg, whenever someone pulls this "men aren't programmed for monogomy" bullcrap I know that they've done absolutely no reading on human sexuality. Because if they did, they would know that human beings are programmed for both monogomy AND ploygogmy. That is why in the end, it is a *choice* you utimately make. We have reactions and hormones and emotions that indulge and feed needs for both one special partner and many partners. Men and women. So it will never be and never was a question of humans being *programed* for one thing over the other. When people make false claims that men or women are programed for one or the other, they are really jsut trying to support their own selfish desire. The scientific reality is we are programmed for both. Which means that either way you go, it is a choice. TheBigQuestion: This is similar to what I've written in tons of threads here on LS, yet I always get labeled as misogynistic to some degree or another for doing so. It's an uphill battle trying to convince anyone here, especially the women, that men and women are psychologically and physiologically different enough where their sexual choices can be made for different reasons and can (often rightfully) have asymmetric consequences. Now, I wouldn't necessarily "respect" a guy for having slept with 20 women by the time he was the age of 20, but I have to admit that being able to have done so is an impressive feat, if only you recognize how many guys go through life with virtually no sexual partners, most of whom don't do so by choice. The bottom line is, and always has been, that women generally have a MUCH easier time getting just sex (if that's what they so desire), and that women generally have MUCH more to lose as a result of promiscuous behavior. When you take these two factors into account, it makes a woman sleeping with 20 guys by the time she's 20 to not be impressive, and by extension to certainly not be respectable. Again, I don't deny that rampant promiscuity has roots in psychological disorders for BOTH men and women. Some people later in this thread were trying to deny that promiscuity and cheating correlate. This is absurd beyond belief. You don't become promiscuous by staying faithful to one or a small amount of partners just BY THE DEFINITION of the word. All in all, as a man, you give more sway to poor male behavior and the using of women and being sexually active then you give women. Justify it anyway you want, in the end it's a control mechnism applied by men to attempt to control female sexual behavior so you can limit your own competition which you think will give you a better option of scoring a woman. This is your own personal male insecurity speaking because you are ready to give men accolades by proclaiming a man accomplished becasue he slept with 20 women instead of giving men accolades for treating women with respect.
donnamaybe Posted July 7, 2010 Posted July 7, 2010 You know, this thread is like a train wreck. You don't WANT to look, but sometimes you just can't help yourself. Jersey, those quotes you answered were the most ridiculous things I've ever read. A guy screwing 20 women by age 20 is to be admired, but a gal doing the same is a slut? What are we, 12 years old?
Ruby Slippers Posted July 8, 2010 Posted July 8, 2010 You guys can judge, huff, and puff about sexually liberated woman all you want. I personally won't waste my time with a girl who isn't comfortable enough with her body or sexuality to enjoy sex for what it is: An enormously fun activity that two adults can engage in. Bottomline, you guys just don't appreciate women's sexuality. Which is fine, because that leaves more sexuality for me to enjoy... It's as if you think that if men don't get to define and control how women's sexuality is perceived, than all hell will break loose. Men go around sleeping with tons of women all the time, and when they want a relationship, they exercise restraint and settle down. Women are people too, and can exersice the same judgement that men can when they want to settle down in a relationship. All this fear about women who are sexually liberated cheat more is just another double standard that needs to go away real quick. Women get labeled negatively, men get labeled positively. It's not fair. Ahhh, this post makes me want to have sex with you. I've had very few partners, but I think the double standards around this topic are ridiculous. It is easy for you to write those words, but how many guys are actually capable of having sex with a lot of attractive women? There are few guys who can pull that off. Oh, your envy is showing.
JustJoe Posted July 8, 2010 Posted July 8, 2010 I don't think I have ever actually met a slut. I have met women who have made bad sexual choices, but I also know men who have done the same. Perhaps a little less "labeling", and a little more human respect would go a long way to solving the OP's issues.? I've slept with quite a few Ladies. most have been physically beautiful, some not so much, but mentally gorgeous. I will take an intelligent wicked sexuality, over pure physical attractiveness, any day. My present GF has both, so I'm happy as a ****-house mouse.:D
TheBigQuestion Posted July 8, 2010 Posted July 8, 2010 (edited) You know, this thread is like a train wreck. You don't WANT to look, but sometimes you just can't help yourself. Jersey, those quotes you answered were the most ridiculous things I've ever read. A guy screwing 20 women by age 20 is to be admired, but a gal doing the same is a slut? What are we, 12 years old? At least when referring to what I wrote, Jersey never actually addressed anything I said. You on the other hand, I know your reading comprehension skills are more than good enough to realize that I never said it was something admirable as a character trait, if you were referring to my post when you called it ridiculous. Also, I didn' t say it was automatically "respectable" for a guy to have slept with 20 women by age 20. I said it was an impressive number given the cold hard REALITIES about being male. If a woman has minimal social skills and doesn't look like the Elephant Man, 20 partners by age 20 can be achieved with little difficulty. I never said that this is condemnable in isolation. Notice I said nothing about the psychological reasons for promiscuity in that particular post (although I have in the past and have CLEARLY stated that promiscuity is very often a symptom of psychological dysfunction regardless of gender). Jersey just went on her typical rant about every implication/assumption about women's sexual decisions being completely sexist. It's interchangeable with about 90% of the posts she's ever made on this board. It's rather hypocritical considering she makes all sorts of negative judgments about mens' sexual behaviors and decisions all the time. The fact that the terms used to slam these men are not as universal as "slut" is of little consequence. While I'm generally not one to throw around the word "slut," it's a word used to describe the behavior of a particular woman that a particular man dislikes. Considering there are very real reasons for people to condemn promiscuity and find it distasteful, I don't find this outlandish. If I engage in any type of behavior that significant amounts of people find objectionable on valid grounds, I'm prepared to be called names. Anyone else should be as well. Anyone who sees the use of derogatory terms for promiscuity as an attack on all women or an attempt to suppress womens' sexuality (as if the only aspect of sexuality is number of sexual partners) has a massive persecution complex. Not every outward action is dictated by some sort of inner insecurity. Edited July 8, 2010 by TheBigQuestion
TheBigQuestion Posted July 8, 2010 Posted July 8, 2010 All in all, as a man, you give more sway to poor male behavior and the using of women and being sexually active then you give women. Justify it anyway you want, in the end it's a control mechnism applied by men to attempt to control female sexual behavior so you can limit your own competition which you think will give you a better option of scoring a woman. This is your own personal male insecurity speaking because you are ready to give men accolades by proclaiming a man accomplished becasue he slept with 20 women instead of giving men accolades for treating women with respect. Let's break this down as logically as possible. 1. I don't personally find male promiscuity more or less condemnable than female promiscuity. I generally don't find it all that condemnable in general unless it reaches extreme proportions. I'm simply referring to the simple fact of life that it is more difficult for a man to accomplish those numbers than a woman. That's what makes it impressive: the numbers. It's not a statement of morality. 2. How on earth would me discouraging women from sleeping around result in me getting better options for "scoring women?" Do you think before you type?? Seriously. If I want to have better chances at just scoring women, wouldn't I want every woman to be an insatiable being that jumps on anything remotely phallic-looking? 3. I applaud men who treat women respectfully. Unfortunately that's a red herring in the context of this thread. You automatically assumed that by me saying that 20 partners by age 20 is an unusually large number that I value that more than men who treat women respectfully. So let's wrap this up. 1. You misread what I said about male promiscuity as being a moral statement rather than a statement of fact. 2. You made an absurd statement. 3. You threw in a red-herring and simultaneously put words in my mouth. If you're going to debate something, tighten up your argumentation skills kthnx.
donnamaybe Posted July 8, 2010 Posted July 8, 2010 While I'm generally not one to throw around the word "slut," it's a word used to describe the behavior of a particular woman that a particular man dislikes. A woman who doesn't allow herself to be controlled by the double standards attempting to be imposed by a so-called man who is bitter because he can't get laid?
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