How important is education in your SO?

June 10, 2010

Yeah, you're right, an MD is exactly like an Associates Degree in Communication. Next time I need an appointment, I'll call up the latter.

I'd rather go to an experienced RN than a newbie MD or DO. The difference in time and money between the two in orders of magnitude, but I'd feel safer.

June 10, 2010

I'd rather go to an experienced RN than a newbie MD or DO. The difference in time and money between the two in orders of magnitude, but I'd feel safer.

I've had better experiences with NPs, but my point is that not all degrees are equal. There's a difference between getting a PhD in nuclear physics and a BFA in modern dance.

June 10, 2010

I've had better experiences with NPs, but my point is that not all degrees are equal. There's a difference between getting a PhD in nuclear physics and a BFA in modern dance.

I see your point. But the flip side of that is who do I know I respect more, the guy who got a BFA and is painting or sculpting while working weird jobs so he can follow his passion, or the guy who supressed any and all wimsy and passion in himself and got a finance degree and spends his days moving weird priducts around and making money for fat cats while the "little people" loose their homes?

Its an extreme case, but I'd rather be poor and proud of what I'm doing that miserable and rich.

June 10, 2010

Yeah, you're right, an MD is exactly like an Associates Degree in Communication. Next time I need an appointment, I'll call up the latter.

your quoting something that is miles into a conversation go back a few pages and try to keep up.

I said some careers do need a degree such as Doctors and speech Language Pathologists etc etc.

But the conversation is so past that I'm not going to explain youll just have to go back and read from the beginning.

June 10, 2010

I see your point. But the flip side of that is who do I know I respect more, the guy who got a BFA and is painting or sculpting while working weird jobs so he can follow his passion, or the guy who supressed any and all wimsy and passion in himself and got a finance degree and spends his days moving weird priducts around and making money for fat cats while the "little people" loose their homes?

Its an extreme case, but I'd rather be poor and proud of what I'm doing that miserable and rich.

That's a separate issue, and I'd agree with you on that.

I'm just addressing that "every degree is meaningless and exactly alike because lots of people have a degree" argument.

June 10, 2010

That's a separate issue, and I'd agree with you on that.

I'm just addressing that "every degree is meaningless and exactly alike because lots of people have a degree" argument.

No degree is meaningless as far as i am concerned. But sometimes the things they say about people are not positive.

June 10, 2010

That's a separate issue, and I'd agree with you on that.

I'm just addressing that "every degree is meaningless and exactly alike because lots of people have a degree" argument.

Thats not what it was about again go back and re read it.

The argument was about the no degree is more special than the next and the school you go to is no more special than the other, and a degree is not an end all be all. but we sort of moved past that.

The conversation evolved and you are quoting random ideas among a conversation and commenting on it.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Ihavenoidea

June 10, 2010

This is where I disagree. What gives someone the right to prefer a certain racial preference, but not education? Surely each individual is entitled to pursue ideals they value, and wish to follow... I absolutely have the right to "snub" someone because he does not have a degree. I'm choosing my LIFE partner, aren't I? Ultimately, his decisions and lifestyle impact MY life, my kids, my happiness.

I feel the same way about girls that don't fit my body type. You have your preferences and I have mine. You go girl.

June 10, 2010

I would surely date an English major with no job prospects. And we would move to a location where he could find a job. Yes, a stable financial life is imperative to me. Why is this a shock? You understand my values, and my expectations. You are not my boyfriend- why does this offend you so much? We have varying interests, and my preferences are not the topic in this forum. Leave my personal life out of this.

It's weird to me that anyone has these ultra-strict, elitist requirements of their potential mates. I'm not getting into your personal life, I'm discussing what you've already brought up.

June 10, 2010

Yes but what you're saying is, if you meet a great girl with all the qualities you look for who doesn't have a college degree, you'll snub her. That's snobbish.

I look for personality and intelligence, neither of these need a degree to be present. I don't date girls with only X and Y, it's who I'm attracted to. I've dated educated girls, and non-educated ones. Ones with black hair, blonde hair, short, taller, skinny, fatter, etc.

I don't discriminate, it's who they are to me, not what pithy degree they carry.

Not what I am saying necessarily.

I am saying if I met a girl with all those qualities, I'd surely date her. But it's much harder to find those qualities if they lack a college degree. It's very easy to find people with degrees (where one hangs out, social circles, work location, online, etc) and thus easier for me to find what I am looking for. One is a stronger indicator of the underlying traits. The underlying traits are what are important, but they are rarer to find in a person without said indicator. Hopefully this makes the distinction a bit more clear.

But, to be empirically honest, I'd be really wary of someone without a good degree. I just tend to find that I get along better with intelligent/well-educated people my own age. I have a preference for Asians, too. Does this all make me snobbish? Maybe. But I know what I want in a woman -- not that I won't make exceptions -- but I know that certain things are highly correlated with other things in life that matter to me.

Edited June 10, 2010 by VertexSquared

June 10, 2010

Vertex you have every right to date who you find appealing and to desire a woman who has a good education like yourself. I bolded the last sentence because you know if you found that girl you would not be comfortable if she didn't go to what you consider to be a "good school". That's okay. I take issue with men who say they want to marry a girl who went to a "good school" but have sex on the other side of the tracks. That makes me sick.

Ahhh, I see -- well, I personally can't have sex just for the sake of sex. I need to have it with someone I am romantically interested in, and I am only romantically interested in women with a brain.

It's weird to me that anyone has these ultra-strict, elitist requirements of their potential mates. I'm not getting into your personal life, I'm discussing what you've already brought up.

If I am to spend the rest of my life with someone, I'd *want* ultra-strict requirements. I don't feel that I can really be lax with my cutoffs and thresholds and just hope that the unknown is compatible, when I've already spent a great deal of time observing what works with me and what doesn't -- I've learned that I have a harder time being compatible with non-educated women. A college degree opens doors and comes with a lot of opportunity, knowledge, stability, and growth -- there's no denying this. I really value a woman who knows how to work hard, make sound financial decisions, hold her own in a conversation, pursue goals, break down problems, etc. My current girlfriend fits this bill and we get along so well. I met her online, but guess what one of my highly-important filters was? Education.

Fortunately for me, this cutoff is, in itself, a natural selector. The kind of girls I want generally want guys like me and don't see the preference as snobbish.

Edited June 10, 2010 by VertexSquared

June 10, 2010

Wow, reading this thread was a little rough to take considering that I'm a person who doesn't have a college degree.

To give a little perspective, not everyone who chooses not to go to college does so because of laziness or lack of financial means/opportunity. As I stated pretty early in the thread I was actually given a full scholarship to a university near me, but for what I want to do (hair/cosmetology), college is just not an integral step. I attended college for a year just to give it a chance as my parents insisted (might as well have since it was paid for). After a year of taking random general classes trying to find something that sparked my interest, I still just wanted to do hair.

I didn't not go to college because I'm lazy, unintelligent, or without options. In fact I'm motivated, rather intelligent, and had plenty of options before me.

I will say that my circle of friends outside of work are a decently educated crowd (most are working on their masters right now) and I certainly don't have trouble "keeping up" with their conversations as some other posters have insinuated.

June 10, 2010

Wow, reading this thread was a little rough to take considering that I'm a person who doesn't have a college degree.

To give a little perspective, not everyone who chooses not to go to college does so because of laziness or lack of financial means/opportunity. As I stated pretty early in the thread I was actually given a full scholarship to a university near me, but for what I want to do (hair/cosmetology), college is just not an integral step. I attended college for a year just to give it a chance as my parents insisted (might as well have since it was paid for). After a year of taking random general classes trying to find something that sparked my interest, I still just wanted to do hair.

I didn't not go to college because I'm lazy, unintelligent, or without options. In fact I'm motivated, rather intelligent, and had plenty of options before me.

I will say that my circle of friends outside of work are a decently educated crowd (most are working on their masters right now) and I certainly don't have trouble "keeping up" with their conversations as some other posters have insinuated.

Yeah this is what I mean, to suggest that because you don't have a degree that you may somehow be less intelligent, successful or a great person is rather silly. Yes perhaps overall in studies there's a correlation, but on an individual level it doesn't necessarily mean anything.

My cousin went to college, hated it, drives trucks for a living and loves it. I'd guarantee he's smarter than many college grads as well. There are plenty of stupid people with and without degrees, how about all the ones who party their way through fraternities and graduate? They aren't exactly smart. Go to your local college campus and talk to people, the stupidity will blow you away.

This is my point overall.

June 10, 2010

Yeah this is what I mean, to suggest that because you don't have a degree that you may somehow be less intelligent, successful or a great person is rather silly. Yes perhaps overall in studies there's a correlation, but on an individual level it doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Well, technically, the individuals make up the population that correspond to the correlation. While someone like kiss_andmakeup is an exception and may be on the upper end of the spectrum, for every one person without a college degree that would be compatible, there are going to be countless more without degrees who aren't.

My cousin went to college, hated it, drives trucks for a living and loves it. I'd guarantee he's smarter than many college grads as well. There are plenty of stupid people with and without degrees, how about all the ones who party their way through fraternities and graduate? They aren't exactly smart. Go to your local college campus and talk to people, the stupidity will blow you away.

This is my point overall.

Again, I feel like you keep pointing to random small-sample anecdotes. Yes, you'll find plenty of people who are smart and don't need college. You'll find plenty of frat tards at any school -- you'll find even more outside of school. I mean, look at my brother. He didn't go to college. All he *does* is party. As an aside, I can assure you that the "average person" at the upper-tier is not going to be stupid.

June 10, 2010

Well, technically, the individuals make up the population that correspond to the correlation. While someone like kiss_andmakeup is an exception and may be on the upper end of the spectrum, for every one person without a college degree that would be compatible, there are going to be countless more without degrees who aren't.

Again, I feel like you keep pointing to random small-sample anecdotes. Yes, you'll find plenty of people who are smart and don't need college. You'll find plenty of frat tards at any school -- you'll find even more outside of school. I mean, look at my brother. He didn't go to college. All he *does* is party. As an aside, I can assure you that the "average person" at the upper-tier is not going to be stupid.

Given my last post, I still see the logic in what you're saying and even though it may be a bit hypocritical, I do agree. I assume that people like me are outliers and the majority of the people I associate with outside of work are well-educated. Not because I hold it as a requirement for my friends, but because I just happened to get along with them, and I see the correlation there.

My point was just that it isn't an exact science, which you seem to be acknowledging.

June 10, 2010

The argument was about the no degree is more special than the next

This is not true. It takes more work and effort to get an MS in mechanical engineering than it does to get an AS in communications. "Special" is the wrong word for it, but not all degrees are the same.

and the school you go to is no more special than the other

This is also not true. Are you saying Bob Jones University is the same as Berkeley?

And since you keep comparing it to high school degrees, is there no difference between DC public schools and the best ranked public schools in the US?

and a degree is not an end all be all.

That's the part I agree on.

June 10, 2010

Well, technically, the individuals make up the population that correspond to the correlation. While someone like kiss_andmakeup is an exception and may be on the upper end of the spectrum, for every one person without a college degree that would be compatible, there are going to be countless more without degrees who aren't.

Again, I feel like you keep pointing to random small-sample anecdotes. Yes, you'll find plenty of people who are smart and don't need college. You'll find plenty of frat tards at any school -- you'll find even more outside of school. I mean, look at my brother. He didn't go to college. All he *does* is party. As an aside, I can assure you that the "average person" at the upper-tier is not going to be stupid.

Intelligence is not easily definable, nor is stupidity. Is the guy who can do any math problem in his head in seconds, but can't function or speak well around people stupid?

I mean if you're going by IQ (which I find hilarious that anyone does) or saying all intelligence is the same, then you may be right. However, how is the artist less intelligent than the physicist? Not everyone learns the same, nor is intelligent in the same way which is a huge issue I have with education. It treats all people the same, which just doesn't work. I can write essays with the best of them and had a college reading level in middle school, but despise math and can't do it to save my life, nor would I ever care to.

June 10, 2010

Just as a college degree does not imply intelligence, lack of a degree does not imply stupidity.

However: most people that successfully complete a degree are more successful than most people that don't.

If you're desperate to find a decent match quickly, by all means, filter out people by whatever criteria you desire, including education. You are certainly more likely to find someone you click with when you focus on attributes you value.

That being said, if you do filter aggressively, don't feel bad when you miss an outlier, one of those people who didn't finish college for one reason or another who are incredibly intelligent or successful, yet they don't feel they are handicapped in any way.

Some people simply don't enjoy formal education.

As for people bashing IQ as a meaningful indicator of intelligence...just because it doesn't measure every type of intelligence doesn't mean it isn't useful. People with truly high IQ's tend to be good at almost everything they try (polymaths), which should be an obvious display that an IQ test measured something correctly.

Scoring high will generally mean you are intelligent, while scoring low does not necessarily mean you are stupid.

These are two powerful examples that correlation does not imply causation.

June 10, 2010

Just as a college degree does not imply intelligence, lack of a degree does not imply stupidity.

However: most people that successfully complete a degree are more successful than most people that don't.

If you're desperate to find a decent match quickly, by all means, filter out people by whatever criteria you desire, including education. You are certainly more likely to find someone you click with when you focus on attributes you value.

That being said, if you do filter aggressively, don't feel bad when you miss an outlier, one of those people who didn't finish college for one reason or another who are incredibly intelligent or successful, yet they don't feel they are handicapped in any way.

Some people simply don't enjoy formal education.

As for people bashing IQ as a meaningful indicator of intelligence...just because it doesn't measure every type of intelligence doesn't mean it isn't useful. People with truly high IQ's tend to be good at almost everything they try (polymaths), which should be an obvious display that an IQ test measured something correctly.

Scoring high will generally mean you are intelligent, while scoring low does not necessarily mean you are stupid.

These are two powerful examples that correlation does not imply causation.

Agreed.

Again, to reinforce an earlier point, I'm okay with the fact that I'd be missing out on the outliers. I'm okay with this purely because they ARE outliers. They're harder to find, and it's much easier for me to stick to dating amongst those where I can filter by things that are highly correlated with what I want in a woman. The degree itself also has its own power that is difficult to argue with.

June 10, 2010

I see your point. But the flip side of that is who do I know I respect more, the guy who got a BFA and is painting or sculpting while working weird jobs so he can follow his passion, or the guy who supressed any and all wimsy and passion in himself and got a finance degree and spends his days moving weird priducts around and making money for fat cats while the "little people" loose their homes?

Its an extreme case, but I'd rather be poor and proud of what I'm doing that miserable and rich.

I get what you are saying but I have a ton of friends in finance and some of them would do the job way past retirement if they could, because they love it. Earning a lot doesnt necessarily mean you are a sell out and not following your passion.

June 10, 2010

I get what you are saying but I have a ton of friends in finance and some of them would do the job way past retirement if they could, because they love it. Earning a lot doesnt necessarily mean you are a sell out and not following your passion.

Finance is genuinely an interesting field because it's extremely challenging and stimulating.

June 10, 2010

Wait, how can you guys blame anyone for getting money from their parents during college? This isn't 1970 when it hardly cost anything to go to college.

At my university, you needed written permission to work full-time, and there were a maximum number of hours for campus jobs and work-study positions. They strongly discouraged working full-time as an undergrad because you're supposed to be pouring all your efforts into classwork.

Is there some kind of virtue I'm not seeing in racking up tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands in debt before you're even 21? Congratulations, you did it all on your own without a penny for groceries from mom and dad. Enjoy paying it off for the next 40 years.

I worked 3 jobs all the way through, and just didn't tell my faculty - it had to be done, written permission or not. I think a lot of people do the same. But people don't usually tell you this as a badge of honor - it was just a requirement, and it would have been nicer to have had more help. And it is great for people that do get more help. But although it was ridiculously pressured I had some of my best times, and learnt some of my best skills, in those jobs, so retrospectively I wouldn't change it. I see a lot of people getting defensive in this thread!-I for one say good for you if your parents support you, but don't take it as something to get defensive over when someone tells you they did it all themselves. Also doing it all yourself does put you in a position of independence that you can't understand or appreciate unless you've been there. Not saying it makes a person any better-just saying that it is very different from being supported by others (no better, no worse, but definitely to be proud of!).

June 10, 2010

I am a unique case then.

However what do you really mean to gain from going to Harvard Business School or UMUC, they will both equally give you a job.

IN my last college class they said resumes were for getting an interview and HR spends no more than 30 seconds on a resume. I cant verfiy that but it makes sense, having Harvard and UMUC wont make a difference the only difference may be the networking.

Believe me - it makes a difference. In that 30 seconds they look at your degree, where you got it from and your last job. Reading Harvard usually means 'do not throw in trash'.

June 10, 2010

ok but what do MOST poeple do, they go to college graduate at 22, get a job, some continue to higher education but MOST people after gradutiang work a 9-5 job for the next 40 years and retire.

this could be argued as the norm, so how is this in anyway ambitiuous.

I cant see a 20 year old kid going to Berkley in physics in anyway ambitious, thats cool for the kid but certinaly not ambitous

That kid might win a Nobel Prize one day and change the world with his knowledge! I don't see how you see this as a career choice that is not ambitious.

June 10, 2010

I for one say good for you if your parents support you, but don't take it as something to get defensive over when someone tells you they did it all themselves.

I don't get defensive when someone says they did it all themselves. I get irritated when someone says, "So-and-so coasted on their parents' money" only because their parents helped pay for their college education, and people in this thread were talking down to marsle85 and almost insulting her because she's not paying all of her college expenses herself. That's remarkably obnoxious, IMO.

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How important is education in your SO?

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