Ruby Slippers Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 When I was living in New York I saw the same thing so it is not just one area. You are going to find whatever you are looking for wherever you go. It's true for all of us.
Woggle Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 I know nothing about Seaside Heights, NJ, but did a Google image search and found this: http://www.jaunted.com/files/admin/seasideheightslewdshirt.png I think sweetj might have a point. i love riding on those cable cars they have at the top. You pay three bucks and you get a nice tour of the boardwalk from a bird's eye view.
Woggle Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 Maybe I am being a little too stuborn. I have no issue with Ruby's version of sexually free but most men have experienced the other version and that is where our hangups come from.
sweetjasmine Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 Yes. This place has been a zoo this week. I still love living on the Jersey Shore though. When I was living in New York I saw the same thing so it is not just one area. Ok, there's one thing in common between the shore and NY: guidos. I hope a light bulb just went off in your head. (Joking aside, though, "guidos" do exist as a specific sub-culture, like goths or hipsters, and I've bumped into them even in upstate NY and have seen the same aggressive, competitive, stupid behavior, with both men and women. In upstate NY, I had this stupid drunk high school kid try to hit on me, and when my SO showed up, he tried to start sh-t and provoke a fight. It was so ridiculous I wanted to laugh in his face.)
Woggle Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 Ok, there's one thing in common between the shore and NY: guidos. I hope a light bulb just went off in your head. (Joking aside, though, "guidos" do exist as a specific sub-culture, like goths or hipsters, and I've bumped into them even in upstate NY and have seen the same aggressive, competitive, stupid behavior, with both men and women. In upstate NY, I had this stupid drunk high school kid try to hit on me, and when my SO showed up, he tried to start sh-t and provoke a fight. It was so ridiculous I wanted to laugh in his face.) Many of the guidos are actually people coming in from NY.
sweetjasmine Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 Many of the guidos are actually people coming in from NY. My point is that not everyone acts like that. Not everyone takes "sexually free" to mean "I have the right to cheat on my partner" and all that. Certain behaviors are acceptable/condoned/tolerated in some sub-cultures, but that doesn't mean that everyone else behaves that way or is okay with it.
A O Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 Well, I think most people are slaves to convention and societal norms and are threatened by any truly liberated person. One of your latest posts has jolted my memory banks - some men perceive sexually free women as being more likely to cheat, and or of being more sexually experienced than themselves - that's what they're afraid off. As for the female perspective, sexually free women threaten womens ability to be discriminating - that's what they're afraid off. And a woman who is in charge of her own sexuality, who understands it and embraces it, is one of the most irresistible creatures on earth. She is irresistible to men for how she can make them feel, how she can have them eating out of her hand like a lamb -- and to women because they want to be like her. It's the same for men in charge of their sexuality. I sense manipulation. Yes, now that's a good reason to be afraid, both men and women. People who feel no shame for being the sexual beings they are and enjoying sex to the fullest extent possible are very threatening to those who are repressed. Mostly, the repressed are horribly jealous and afraid they will lose their partners to these kinds of people. Indeed, but you're talking more on an individual level than societal level. People like myself and Woggle understand that on a societal level, men are frequently hung, drawn and quartered for their sexual appetites. Women are too, but women have this strangely ironic belief that they're alone in this predicament when its anything but! Because they don't have that key to liberation themselves, and they are jealous. Calling them names is their petty attempt to make the liberated women as miserable as they are themselves. Agreed but there's a little bit more to it than that. As mentioned earlier - discrimination plays a major role in all of this. Discrimination is what separates women from men. The ability, the biological and to many still, the financial need to be more discriminant lays with women more than men. Loose women threaten this ability, this need, as men gravitate towards the path of least resistance, meaning women across the board will have to behave in a similar fashion otherwise risk the chance of missing out on a potential partner, pregnancy or both. Women regulate, control, their own sexual behavior in order to protect this ability to discriminate - to be able to mate with the best possible partner they can find. Potent sexuality, male or female, is a lack of shame and an embracing of the pleasures of sex. It's confident, it's self-assured, and it's very attractive.Well, I dunno - I just call that a person comfortable in their own skin. It tends to transcend through all aspects of their lives, not just sex. .
TheBigQuestion Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 People who feel no shame for being the sexual beings they are and enjoying sex to the fullest extent possible are very threatening to those who are repressed. Mostly, the repressed are horribly jealous and afraid they will lose their partners to these kinds of people. I think the whole definition of "sexually liberated"/"sexually potent" as used in this thread is still fairly ambiguous and arbitrary, and this particular section of your post makes the least sense. How exactly does one go about determining who is sexually liberated or potent, and furthermore, how does one develop a paranoia that one will lose their partner to one of these people? There is no obvious test for this, and most people don't wear that information on their sleeves or just bring it up in casual conversation with complete strangers. I also don't think sexually liberated people hold as much power as you think they do. I've had sex with women that have been absolutely amazing in bed, who indulged my fantasies and didn't rule out very many positions/activities, and I wasn't eating out of their palms. I friend-zoned one and completely stopped speaking to the other. The one girl that I actually was basically "enslaved" by recently was actually only above average in bed. While I certainly don't share Woggle's paranoid and defeated mentality about the opposite sex, he is right in one important factor: the way guys choose women as "relationship material" is usually something that is done for practical, and not ideological, reasons. Some guys in this thread claim that "sexually liberated" women are more likely to cheat and/or relationship-hop. Others (mostly women) deny that this is the case. This is really just one person's word against the other, with nothing more than anecdotal evidence to back it up. Even still, if a guy has found that in his own life and in the lives of those around him, this rings true time and time again, he has every right to believe it and act upon it. A woman that craves sexual variety, for example, is not going to make for a good long-term partner unless the man is alright with living the swinger lifestyle. Men crave variety too, probably more than women, but as I've said numerous times on this board, it's too easy for women to be promiscuous. You don't need to be great looking, or a freak in bed, or sexually liberated. That's where this supposed madonna/whore complex comes from: the simple fact that women can get sex far more easily than men in present day society. This isn't about me or anyone else being repressed, it's a simple fact of life. As for the OP, most guys will not be apprehensive about a woman being good in bed. What they will worry about is what, if anything, they've heard about your relationship and sex history. Although I will say that if you successfully enrapture a guy, your sexual history, however conservative or promiscuous, will be of little consequence to him. I'm one of those awful males who has compartmentalized women, much like the urban dictionary definition of this complex, in groups of "relationship" and "fun only" in the past at least partially on the basis of sexual and relationship history. But it's never been the only factor either. In my experience, the women that have been more sexually aggressive/forward/promiscuous towards me and others have way more relationship baggage, less self-respect, are generally less interesting and intelligent, and tend to be more likely to have drug and drinking problems. I have extremely high standards for what I consider relationship material, and women with significant emotional or psychological difficulties are the first to get the ax. Their sexual behavior figures into this no matter how much some people may scream and shout over it. If that makes me repressed, I don't want to be anything but.
JohnP82 Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 Maybe it's biological thing. For example you see a girl date the crazy/bad boy in her younger years and then when she gets older she marries the stable/provider guy. She's looking for someone who is stable and will be there to support her and the children no matter what. Maybe guys also think this way. They want the wild/uninhibited female for fun, but when it comes to creating a family they want the more stable and as you say vanilla woman. He knows she is perhaps more loyal and predictable. I don't have the complex I just don't want a girl that has slept around a lot. Guys definitely want a women that is "a freak in the sheets but a lady in the streets" but only with them. Also what guy wants a girl that has been with every other guy?
torranceshipman Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 A man has to choose between a frigid cold fish or a woman who cheats on him with no remorse. It is a hard choice. Lets get it out there right away for anyone that is new to the board...Woggle is a misogynist obsessed with the idea of being cheated on, so he looks at this type of issue through a very warped lens. I think someone saying men can be the victim of a madonna whore complex themselves had it right on-sounds like Woggle. Not flaming you though Woggle as sometimes you come across as trying to change and that's a nice thing.
janie423 Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 You've pretty much captured the essence of the problem. Men afflicted with the madonna/whore complex like women who give them sex, but they don't really respect them. On the other hand, while they respect women who make them wiat for sex, or who are sexually vanilla, they don't like them. Women lose out either way. But of course, so do men. When a man meet a sexually experienced, aggressive, he ought to be thankful. He ought to be grateful to every other guy she's ever slept with for helping make her who she is. But too many don't. At the root of all this is a deep, abiding fear, hatred and distrust of women, and of female sexuality in particular. this says it all . . . I would emphasize fear above all.
Woggle Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 Lets get it out there right away for anyone that is new to the board...Woggle is a misogynist obsessed with the idea of being cheated on, so he looks at this type of issue through a very warped lens. I think someone saying men can be the victim of a madonna whore complex themselves had it right on-sounds like Woggle. Not flaming you though Woggle as sometimes you come across as trying to change and that's a nice thing. It's not that I'm obsessed with it but I see cheating and walkaway wives all around me so yeah I am a little worried about it happening to me. Maybe I was being a bit extreme about a man having to choose between one extreme or the other but a woman who views sexuality as some form of female empowerment is most likely a feminist and feminists make the worst long term partners a man can find. I have seen that fact play out with my own two eyes.
kiss_andmakeup Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 Speaking as another woman who is sexually liberated but not a cheater or a sexual deviant in any way. I love sex and the mere idea of being intimate and trying new things with my partner excites me. I know what feels good for me, I know what feels good for him, and I'm very in touch with my sexuality. Because of this it's important to know if a partner and I are sexually compatible so I typically don't wait very long before getting intimate with someone. However, I have never experienced this getting a negative reaction from men, in fact usually they become rather attached. All that said, I would never, ever, ever cheat on my boyfriend and I never have cheated in a relationship. I take my relationships very seriously and when woggle said something like "as men we get to choose between a cold dead fish and a cheating whore" I was truly insulted. The idea that he or other men would think there is truly nothing in between a "cold dead fish" and a "whore" is not only insulting, it's mind boggling and sad.
Pyro Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 All that said, I would never, ever, ever cheat on my boyfriend and I never have cheated in a relationship. I take my relationships very seriously and when woggle said something like "as men we get to choose between a cold dead fish and a cheating whore" I was truly insulted. The idea that he or other men would think there is truly nothing in between a "cold dead fish" and a "whore" is not only insulting, it's mind boggling and sad. Don't take his thinking personally or seriously. It is very bitter, biased, and irrational. Those of us who think clearly and see things realistically know and can see that there is a grey area in between the black and white. I have seen that plenty of times with my own two eyes.
kiss_andmakeup Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 Don't take his thinking personally or seriously. It is very bitter, biased, and irrational. Those of us who think clearly and see things realistically know and can see that there is a grey area in between the black and white. I have seen that plenty of times with my own two eyes. Oh I know, I've been around here long enough that I should know better than to let Woggle's posts get to me!
janie423 Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 A woman that craves sexual variety, for example, is not going to make for a good long-term partner unless the man is alright with living the swinger lifestyle. Men crave variety too, probably more than women, but as I've said numerous times on this board, it's too easy for women to be promiscuous. Please note that the term sexual variety is defined as a person who enjoys various sexual positions or various partners. The operative word is "or". That said, a woman who craves sexual variety is not necessarily promiscuous. She may enjoy sexual variety with her loving husband.
torranceshipman Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 I believe but you are one of the rare ones. Unortunately sexually free has become the term women use who cheat on men left and right with no remorse. I don't know how many times one of my friends has been cheated or I have a heard of a woman cheating on a man and when she is caught and the man gets angry she pulls the sexual freedom card and accuses him of being controlling. I can't go a week without hearing of a case like this. Many men have a better be safe than sorry attitude when it comes to choosing a commited partner and I don't think it is fair to call them sexist for protecting themselves. A week?! Do you hang out in a free love commune or something?? Or might you be exaggerating slightly :D Whatever...I'd change up the female company that you and your buddies keep if this happens on a week by week basis because I've never had it happen in my group of friends.
Crazy Magnet Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 I had a conversation with my bf about this over the weekend oddly enough. He said he used to have the same type of thinking, that women who were adventurous in bed=promiscuous and more likely to cheat and women who were not adventurous in bed="good girls" who would make good girlfriends. I asked him why he no longer thought like that and he said he was insecure with himself and his own sexuality before and now he is secure in who he is (he's 35 now). Although this is what he says I can't tell you the number of times he's made comments about how awesome it is that I'm so sexually adventurous (I like to try new and out of the box stuff with him always) yet I've never slept around (no ONS, etc.). Silly boy, contradicts himself. Mostly I think these comments are a backlash from his last gf who was one of those extreme feminist who didn't believe in marriage or any artificially created patriarchal construct and bordered on free love. She apparently hopped on anything with a dick in her effort to refuse to conform to society's "rules." She never cheated on him though.
Woggle Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 A week?! Do you hang out in a free love commune or something?? Or might you be exaggerating slightly :D Whatever...I'd change up the female company that you and your buddies keep if this happens on a week by week basis because I've never had it happen in my group of friends. I work with the chamber of commerce and I know a lot of the business owners along the Jersey Shore so I meet many new people. Of all the people I meet it seems that I can't go a week or maybe two without meeting a betrayed man or meeting a woman who betrays a man with no remorse.
A O Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 He said he used to have the same type of thinking, that women who were adventurous in bed=promiscuous and more likely to cheat and women who were not adventurous in bed="good girls" who would make good girlfriends. It's a valid perception nonetheless. How accurate it is, is anyone's guess but no one here can dismiss it out of hand simply because it does happen - and is - more likely to happen among the sexually carefree than those who are not. .
Pyro Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 I work with the chamber of commerce and I know a lot of the business owners along the Jersey Shore so I meet many new people. Of all the people I meet it seems that I can't go a week or maybe two without meeting a betrayed man or meeting a woman who betrays a man with no remorse. but you never see a man betraying a woman? Of course not because you block that imagery out.
Pyro Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 It's a valid perception nonetheless. How accurate it is, is anyone's guess but no one here can dismiss it out of hand simply because it does happen - and is - more likely to happen among the sexually carefree than those who are not. . of course it happens and its out there, but its insane to think that its a regular occurence and that a majority of women do it like some people choose to believe.
Woggle Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 Read the book women's infidelity and it will show you a lot of insight into this mentality.
Woggle Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 but you never see a man betraying a woman? Of course not because you block that imagery out. It does happen but it happens more often the other way around. Also I don't see the same heartlessness and lack of remorse like I do with women.
A O Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 of course it happens and its out there, but its insane to think that its a regular occurence and that a majority of women do it like some people choose to believe. Indeed. But the point needs to be reiterated, given the over abundance of "I'm not like that" folk on here and the knocking a poster is getting which in turn is clouding a very valid point. It is a very real perception and or occurrence, but like many viewpoints - degree is relevant. .
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