Multiple D-Days for BS and OW. What really is the difference?

[silktricks]

Posted like that, there doesn't appear to be any material difference - but I imagine for an OW in that situation, she may feel that he is not choosing freely, but acting under duress, and so is not really rejecting her by staying: it's not that he's choosing the BW, it's that he's simply not ready to leave YET. And I imagine there may be some truth to that - that when a DDay is thrust upon a MM, he probably hasn't "decided" one way or the other, and yet now he must act. And it probably is a lot easier to stick with the status quo than to effect deep and often significant change at a moment's notice - particularly if you're not sure you want to do it.

 

 

{snip}

 

Expecting rationality in situations like that is not very realistic.

 

So..... it's not really rejecting the OW when the WS is saying she's nothing to him, who he really loves is his wife, etc, etc.... ad nauseum. He's just not ready to leave yet. And then another D-Day comes and he does the same thing - he's just not ready to leave - yet. And another - not yet. And in reality most of them never do leave, not unless they are finally kicked to the curb by their wife - though usually in the above scenario, she's been pretty much made into a doormat as well.

 

But these same OW berate the BS who have chosen to take back their WS - some, who like myself, never had a 2nd D-Day. Never actually had a first in the accepted sense, just as Snowflower didn't. Yet, somehow we BS are stupid for taking back a man who was truly remorseful for his past actions, and who is willing to literally go through hell to get us back.

 

Maybe OW could see it more clearly if it was a single guy who was rejecting them time after time. I doubt they would be so full of excuses.

[NoIDidn't]

Maybe OW could see it more clearly if it was a single guy who was rejecting them time after time. I doubt they would be so full of excuses.

 

 

I agree. The excuse so often given when the MM doesn't leave right away basically boils down to "he's married". If they were with a single guy that's rejected them over and over again, I would hope that they'd see it for what it was and not make excuses for why he keeps doing it - and they keep allowing it.

[jennie-jennie]

To me it is pretty obvious that the WS is not rejecting the OW by staying on Dday, since most of them continue their extramarital relationship once the marriage is saved.

 

Silk, I think it is different when a WS confesses his affair of free will. The extramarital relationship has generally run its course by then, and the WS wants to give the marriage his all.

[NoIDidn't]

To me it is pretty obvious that the WS is not rejecting the OW by staying on Dday, since most of them continue their extramarital relationship once the marriage is saved.

 

I disagree. Its a rejection so that the WS can "save" the marriage. It might be temporary, but its a rejection and a denial of the OP nonetheless. And to save the primary R at that? That strikes me as being accepting of a position I'd rather not have.

[jennie-jennie]

I disagree. Its a rejection so that the WS can "save" the marriage. It might be temporary' date=' but its a rejection and a denial of the OP nonetheless. And to save the [i']primary[/i] R at that? That strikes me as being accepting of a position I'd rather not have.

 

LOL The WS has been lying to the BS for ages. Why do we suddenly put so much weight on his words on Dday? Who says he is not just continuing his lies to the BS? What does that have to do with the OW?

 

I understand that the BSs want to project it as rejection, but why should the OW buy that?

 

I presume you mean that the marriage is the primary relationship, but I do know that my MM's primary love, romance and sexual relationship is with me.

[Owl]

LOL The WS has been lying to the BS for ages. Why do we suddenly put so much weight on his words on Dday? Who says he is not just continuing his lies to the BS? What does that have to do with the OW?

 

I understand that the BSs want to project it as rejection, but why should the OW buy that?

 

I presume you mean that the marriage is the primary relationship, but I do know that my MM's primary love, romance and sexual relationship is with me.

 

Jennie, I get what you're saying, but wanted to point out one thought that I had in reading your post.

 

You said that you know that you're his primary relationship...

 

But in reality...that's what you BELIEVE.

 

His wife believes that SHE is his primary relationship.

 

There's no way to KNOW the truth in that until he actually makes a decision.

 

Personally, from what I've seen in your story, I'm of the OPINION (and I know that's all that it is) that your MM doesn't even HAVE a primary relationship. He doesn't know which one it is...or he would have taken action to secure that relationship.

 

He's split. And nothing has forced him to reconcile that, so he's going to stay there either until you get tired of waiting, or his wife finds out and forces him to choose. You know I don't subscribe to the whole "split-self" thing, so that's why I believe what I do. He's been ENABLED to maintain this situation, and has no real reason to change it.

 

He's got both you and her.

[jennie-jennie]

Jennie, I get what you're saying, but wanted to point out one thought that I had in reading your post.

 

You said that you know that you're his primary relationship...

 

But in reality...that's what you BELIEVE.

 

His wife believes that SHE is his primary relationship.

 

There's no way to KNOW the truth in that until he actually makes a decision.

 

Personally, from what I've seen in your story, I'm of the OPINION (and I know that's all that it is) that your MM doesn't even HAVE a primary relationship. He doesn't know which one it is...or he would have taken action to secure that relationship.

 

He's split. And nothing has forced him to reconcile that, so he's going to stay there either until you get tired of waiting, or his wife finds out and forces him to choose. You know I don't subscribe to the whole "split-self" thing, so that's why I believe what I do. He's been ENABLED to maintain this situation, and has no real reason to change it.

 

He's got both you and her.

 

He has romance, intimacy, sex only with me.

He has a family only with her.

He loves us both.

 

His wife might believe that theirs is the primary relationship, but if I were her, I sure would wonder where the hugs, kisses and sex had gone.

[NoIDidn't]

LOL The WS has been lying to the BS for ages. Why do we suddenly put so much weight on his words on Dday? Who says he is not just continuing his lies to the BS? What does that have to do with the OW?

 

I understand that the BSs want to project it as rejection, but why should the OW buy that?

 

I presume you mean that the marriage is the primary relationship, but I do know that my MM's primary love, romance and sexual relationship is with me.

 

Maybe that's the problem, the OW assumes that the MM doesn't mean his words because he's had to change plans with her so many times before, maybe this is just like one of those other times he "couldn't make it"? Always with the assumption that the lies only go to the BS. So sad.

 

I certainly don't "want to project (LOL) it as rejection". It is a rejection. To believe otherwise is awfully desperate rationalizing. THE WS is there with the BS trying to get them to believe that they are with (committed to, emotionally and physically) the BS and not with that other person. That's rejection. A denial of whatever was told to the OP.

 

No matter what an OW might feel about the MM's primary feelings of love in a R, unless he's paying her bills, helping her maintain her home, and living with her, she is not the primary R.

[jennie-jennie]

Maybe that's the problem, the OW assumes that the MM doesn't mean his words because he's had to change plans with her so many times before, maybe this is just like one of those other times he "couldn't make it"? Always with the assumption that the lies only go to the BS. So sad.

 

I certainly don't "want to project (LOL) it as rejection". It is a rejection. To believe otherwise is awfully desperate rationalizing. THE WS is there with the BS trying to get them to believe that they are with (committed to, emotionally and physically) the BS and not with that other person. That's rejection. A denial of whatever was told to the OP.

 

No matter what an OW might feel about the MM's primary feelings of love in a R, unless he's paying her bills, helping her maintain her home, and living with her, she is not the primary R.

 

If I had the choice of being my MM's wife or OW, there is no question I would choose being the OW. :love:

 

I can pay my own bills, I can maintain my own home, I can live by myself, but for romance, intimacy and sex I am dependent on having another.

 

To me rejection is not words, it is action. Having sex with another, hugging another, kissing another, being intimate with another. That is rejection.

[silktricks]

To me it is pretty obvious that the WS is not rejecting the OW by staying on Dday, since most of them continue their extramarital relationship once the marriage is saved.

 

.

I agree with this to a point. They have rejected the OW to the wife, in the same manner that many (not all) MM reject the wife to the OW. Yes they do continue the relationship (often) with the OW, but they also continue the relationship with the wife. The MM is both rejecting (and accepting) the 2 women in equal measure.

 

It's easy for the OW to say that she wasn't rejected, because he's still there, but it's just as easy for the wife to say the same thing. He's still coming home every night, he's telling her he loves only her, they are having monkey sex, etc.

 

Yet, again, often, the BS is reviled for taking back a liar with the underlying implication that the BS should let him go so he can be with his "true love". Or, alternatively, if the man actually did drop the OW, the BS should drop the MM because he should be "punished". If the MM should drop the BS on D-Day, there would certainly not be any idea that THEY should drop the MM for lying to the wife.

 

My point, of course, is the double standard - which, I will add, I have never seen in your posts, Jennie.

[Silly_Girl]

If I had the choice of being my MM's wife or OW, there is no question I would choose being the OW. :love:

 

I can pay my own bills, I can maintain my own home, I can live by myself, but for romance, intimacy and sex I am dependent on having another.

 

 

I didn't enjoy being an OW, it's not for me, but I can understand this point of view.

[silktricks]

LOL The WS has been lying to the BS for ages. Why do we suddenly put so much weight on his words on Dday? Who says he is not just continuing his lies to the BS? What does that have to do with the OW?

because up to now, the lies have not contained any reference to the OW. The BS wasn't aware of her existence. The actual lies were about where he's been, etc. Now the lies are directly ABOUT the OW. She doesn't mean anything, she was a mistake, it was just a fling, etc. Not the same TYPE of lies at all.

 

I understand that the BSs want to project it as rejection, but why should the OW buy that?

see above

I presume you mean that the marriage is the primary relationship, but I do know that my MM's primary love, romance and sexual relationship is with me.

Well, not to put too fine a point on it, you BELIEVE it's with you (and in your case, it probably is). But you cannot truly KNOW without being in the bedroom with him and his wife .

[Fieldsofgold]

He has romance, intimacy, sex only with me.

He has a family only with her.

He loves us both.

 

His wife might believe that theirs is the primary relationship, but if I were her, I sure would wonder where the hugs, kisses and sex had gone.

 

I'm really curious - how do you KNOW what he and his W are doing in the privacy of their bedroom?

 

My "xBF found to be M" keeps e-mailing me relentlessly and swearing i am the woman he has been looking for all his life. He swears he is not sleeping with the W or OW/OOW -whichever she is. How can *I* know that's true?

[Owl]

He has romance, intimacy, sex only with me.

He has a family only with her.

He loves us both.

 

His wife might believe that theirs is the primary relationship, but if I were her, I sure would wonder where the hugs, kisses and sex had gone.

 

Unless you've got a spy living in the house, or she's told you herself that their marriage has no physical contact, I don't know how you could know this.

 

I know the whole debate of whether or not he'd lie to you.

 

But you know full well he's not doing everything wrong at the house, or she WOULD have confronted him already. If she's not...it's a good bet that there's more physical contact than you've been informed of.

 

But I'd agree...he's enjoying intimacy with you, and comfort with her. He's getting something different from each of you. Which ties right into my belief that there isn't a primary or secondary relationship here. He's getting his needs fulfilled by both of you, and has no reason/intention to change that at any point while it's still happening.

[Snowflower]

 

Yet, again, often, the BS is reviled for taking back a liar with the underlying implication that the BS should let him go so he can be with his "true love". Or, alternatively, if the man actually did drop the OW, the BS should drop the MM because he should be "punished". If the MM should drop the BS on D-Day, there would certainly not be any idea that THEY should drop the MM for lying to the wife.

 

Interesting discussion...

 

It seems like there are many OW (not all of my OW friends here of course) who have the mentality that if the MM throws them under the bus on d-day that the BS should drop/divorce him as well.

 

Sort of along the lines "Well if I (meaning OW) can't have him then nobody

else (meaning BW) should have him either."

 

Very different than what many BW here have said after d-day, "Go be with your OW if you are that in love" or some version. I said this as a BS (I told my H to go find happiness, whatever that was for him-including the OW), Spark said this, Herenow has said this and I'm sure there are others.

 

It seems BWs don't usually have the "if I can't have him, nobody should" mindset.

 

 

 

My point, of course, is the double standard - which, I will add, I have never seen in your posts, Jennie.

 

I agree! Jennie, I can't agree with your choices but you respectfully defend them without the double-standard. Thank you.

[Snowflower]

I still would like to know what D-day means from the OW's point of view. I think there might be a different definition depending on what side of the triangle you are on.

 

From a fBS POV, my definition of d-day is when the BS finds out about the affair and there is no question that the WS is involved in one. It's not suspicion, or questions from the BS...it's irrefutable proof.

 

Examples:

 

1. Interception of a text message, phone call, email by the BS.

 

2. Confession by the WS (my situation).

 

3. The AP tells the BS.

 

4. The BS or someone who knows the BS sees the AP/WS together and tells.

 

There are more examples I'm positive, but those are the ones which come to mind for me.

 

So, when we talk about multiple d-days...what are we really talking about? Suspicions or hard-core evidence? I can't imagine most BS would stay around for multiple d-days that span a long period of time.

 

It's one thing if a BS finds out about the affair one week (d-day number one) is still in shock and then is confronted with more evidence the following week (d-day number 2), etc.

 

If multiple d-days stretch out over a longer period of time (months, years) then it is a little different but not the "fault" (can't think of a better word) of the BS. In my mind, the WS is really good at gaslighting both at that point.

[Mimolicious]

Why isn't the "D" on "D-Day" for DIVORCE!!?? That's when ish really hits the fan and it's all said and done! Not all the wishy-washy water down stories that a cheater can fabricate.

 

Talk is cheap, divorces are not!

 

Jennie, the real question is WHY is you MM's BS still with him?

Apparently they have nothing!

[jennie-jennie]

I agree with this to a point. They have rejected the OW to the wife, in the same manner that many (not all) MM reject the wife to the OW. Yes they do continue the relationship (often) with the OW, but they also continue the relationship with the wife. The MM is both rejecting (and accepting) the 2 women in equal measure.

 

It's easy for the OW to say that she wasn't rejected, because he's still there, but it's just as easy for the wife to say the same thing. He's still coming home every night, he's telling her he loves only her, they are having monkey sex, etc.

 

Just throwing my thoughts out there.

 

Is the OW really rejected though? She has never had the MM fully. She has always shared him. Just because the MM denies her to the wife, does not by automation mean that she in any way has him less than before.

 

I know it is not always the case, but I am certain there are more MM than mine, who have stopped being intimate and having sex with their wives. Thus these wives do have less than before.

[bentnotbroken]

Why isn't the "D" on "D-Day" for DIVORCE!!?? That's when ish really hits the fan and it's all said and done! Not all the wishy-washy water down stories that a cheater can fabricate.

 

Talk is cheap, divorces are not!

 

Jennie, the real question is WHY is you MM's BS still with him?

Apparently they have nothing!

 

 

Isn't it funny how JJ and the boy she is dealing with don't give the BS the choice about whether or not she wants to be in this little triangle. She is the only one living her life in the dark. JJ can come on here and talk about how happy she is, how in love the boy is, but no one can speak for the BS except her....and there aren't any other adults in this situation willing to give her the info. Cheap talks abounds.

[jennie-jennie]

because up to now, the lies have not contained any reference to the OW. The BS wasn't aware of her existence. The actual lies were about where he's been, etc. Now the lies are directly ABOUT the OW. She doesn't mean anything, she was a mistake, it was just a fling, etc. Not the same TYPE of lies at all.

 

see above

 

I think this is very individual. If you do not take it as a personal insult, then it is not. It is about the mindset of the OW, as so much is in how you experience being the OW in an extramarital relationship.

Well, not to put too fine a point on it, you BELIEVE it's with you (and in your case, it probably is). But you cannot truly KNOW without being in the bedroom with him and his wife .

 

I give you that, silk. I can not know. But I am pretty d*mn convinced.

[donnamaybe]

Just throwing my thoughts out there.

 

Is the OW really rejected though? She has never had the MM fully. She has always shared him. Just because the MM denies her to the wife, does not by automation mean that she in any way has him less than before.

 

I know it is not always the case, but I am certain there are more MM than mine, who have stopped being intimate and having sex with their wives. Thus these wives do have less than before.

 

The OW/OM was never fully brought into the MM/MW's life, therefore, rejection is not an issue until the end. The AP is led down the path of "I want so much to be with you but for the kids/finances/job/blah, blah blaaaahhhhhh" so they just KNOW that when these aforementioned obstacles are in the past, their MM/MW will leave their spouse for them. Once the realization sets in for the AP, sometimes after years of this deceit, that they really were not "all that" to the MM/MW, it could certainly feel like rejection.

 

As for this hogwash about an MM/MW no longer having sex with their spouse - until the AP has 24 hour video access to every nook and cranny of the marital home, they don't know that at all. They want to believe it, I'm certain, but they do not know at all. In fact, I'm willing to bet it's a bold faced lie on the part of the MM/MW.

[seren]

Jennie, I seem to remember you saying in a thread that you and the MM are LD and that the relationship is mainly conducted online, texts and telephone, or have I mixed you up with someone else? Do you meet often and share lives equally? Hope you don't mind my asking.

 

Personally speaking, I would not and could not have accepted multiple D Days. The if you love her then leave comment is made far more by BS than most OW think. It is interesting that once a D Day happens and the truth is out there, that most BS don't accept the H continuing to see OW. The difference is that most OW would continue to share, therein lies the rub - OW/OM accepts sharing the MP, accepts the I will leave when (insert whatever), might not like it, but is led to believe that it is a foregone conclusion that come D day the MP will leave. In the majority of cases, this is clearly not so and most MP do whatever is needed to stay in their M's.

 

As to primary relationships, well H sure painted a very different home scenario to how it really was. I would be very suspicious of a man who said life was so crap at home, was unhappy, was bored, wasn't having sex or sharing intimacy (different things) with their W. In fact, I would be quite turned off by someone who was so dammed weak that he hadn't the balls to leave. The day to day things make for a relationship. The what to have for dinner questions, the planning holidays, the sharing of tasks, the shared dreams made in the early days, the growing together over time, watching and sharing your kids, the day to day things that might not be exciting, can be taken for granted but nevertheless provide the backdrop to life.

 

I fully respect someone falling in love with another, I understand that, I do not accept gaslighting, lying, sitting on the fence and the old favourite, cake eating. Gaslighting is a term most used in relation to the BS, I see more and more that it is a term that is used by the MP to maintain whatever they want maintaining. I wouldn't knowingly share my H and am always surprised that most OW/OM have no problem doing so, or if they do, how they can carry on with the R.

[jennie-jennie]

I agree! Jennie, I can't agree with your choices but you respectfully defend them without the double-standard. Thank you.

 

Thank you, snowflower (and silk), this means a lot to me.

[jennie-jennie]

Jennie, I seem to remember you saying in a thread that you and the MM are LD and that the relationship is mainly conducted online, texts and telephone, or have I mixed you up with someone else? Do you meet often and share lives equally? Hope you don't mind my asking.

 

Yes, we are long distance since we both have kids and do not want to uproot them. We meet as often as we can afford, or rather as often as my MM can afford, since he is the one paying for my trips. In between the trips we are in constant contact through Skype mainly. That doesn't mean that our relationship is "mainly conducted online, texts and telephone". That is just how we get by in between seeing each other. My MM's work includes business trips. This gives us opportunities to spend quite a long time together. We just spent a week together, and there is another one coming up pretty soon. Problem is he doesn't get much work done when I am around. :love:

[seren]

Thanks Jennie. Given your depth of feeling for the MM, I am surprised you are able to share him with his wife. I rarely agree with what you say (in relation to A's) as some of the things you say echo what the OW said in my situation. No sex, no intimacy, etc, I understand why you would believe that, and expect that from an OW who is so obviously in love with a MM.

 

Do you think he will ever tell his wife and be completely honest with both women in his life? I sincerely hope you don't get hurt as while I don't have any respect for a person who continues to cheat, I have respect for someone who is true to themselves, despite the flack they get thrown at them.