PWSX3 Posted June 5, 2010 Posted June 5, 2010 I don't like that word "CHANGE".....I prefer adjust because we shouldn't "change" for someone but we can adjust.....O.k. I'll go out & play again!!!!
trippi1432 Posted June 5, 2010 Posted June 5, 2010 (edited) I don't like that word "CHANGE".....I prefer adjust because we shouldn't "change" for someone but we can adjust.....O.k. I'll go out & play again!!!! Me (Quoted): It's not that you are better off without her, you became a better man for knowing her and letting her in your life. Yes, you changed your life because of her and because you loved her. You know PW - you are right on that....good insight. Too often when we "change" for someone else, we feel resentment toward that other person....adjustment is a better word, because in a marriage...both people should be adjusting to each other. I give you kudos my friend...and huge hugs!! Please don't get me wrong, not insinuating a resentment on either side, but change is a strong word...thanks for pointing that out PW. You "Adjusted" your life because you loved her.....that's a marriage. Edited June 5, 2010 by trippi1432 add
You Go Girl Posted June 5, 2010 Posted June 5, 2010 One more thing on this, most folks do want to get back to the when they were happier...that definition is different for everyone....for some it was when they knew what optimism was before the life smacked them in the face....metaphor....don't take it seriously. Everyone here had grown and learned something....but there was a charisma/charm/an attitude or confidence that made us who we were back then....we don't all want to do "stupid" all over again in some cases. LOL!! Yeah. I'm trying to figure this out. Do you know the book by Thomas Wolfe, 'You can't go home again?' So how much can we 'go back home'. Heard a country song the other day that claims we can, lol But what's lost is lost. If I look at old pictures, those days are never going to return. The question is, can I recapture happiness. Was I really happy? Do I just think I was? I can't get my youth back, i can't get my innocence back. What can I get back, or is it that we can't go home again, we can't get anything back, there is only forward. And PW--what if we can't adjust to the other person, no matter how much we try?
trippi1432 Posted June 5, 2010 Posted June 5, 2010 Yeah. I'm trying to figure this out. Do you know the book by Thomas Wolfe, 'You can't go home again?' So how much can we 'go back home'. Heard a country song the other day that claims we can, lol But what's lost is lost. If I look at old pictures, those days are never going to return. The question is, can I recapture happiness. Was I really happy? Do I just think I was? I can't get my youth back, i can't get my innocence back. What can I get back, or is it that we can't go home again, we can't get anything back, there is only forward. And PW--what if we can't adjust to the other person, no matter how much we try? Well, not to steal the thread from Tojaz...NO...You cannot get these back entirely, you can only move forward and learn from them. You can only be better or worse because of them, that = choice...yours. But give him the choice as well.
Author tojaz Posted June 6, 2010 Author Posted June 6, 2010 A lot of it has to do with exactly what it is you are trying to get back. A relationship, a marriage will never be the same as it was. Every fight, and separation will forever change you, and your partner. That history, that experience will never vanish from your shared history. So in that sense, no you cannot go home again. That doesn't mean to cast it off though, or that just because it broke down it cannot be rebuilt, and it can be rebuilt stronger and better through effort and understanding of how it broke in the first place. Heres where I am. Why did I love my wife? She was her own person, dancing to the beat of her own drum with her own ideas, opinions, hopes and dreams. Her own style, a creative and artistic soul. A writer, musician, educator. A creator! Sure there will always be a touch of conflict with someone like that, but it was always respected in her, admired, and loved. I saw that slip away. Opinions hidden away, what ever you want dear, and I dont care, wasn't what i had fallen in love with. I loved the girl that could stand up to tell me i was wrong. That wanted her own dreams even when they didn't match my own... and was willing to let me know. What did we fight about most? To be honest, it was her new found passivity! WHat ever you want dear and I don't care wasn't good enough, because it wasn't her. Yeah I pushed, yeah I challenged her, I dont know if it was the right thing to do or not, but I didn't want a yes man for a wife, I didn't want an obedient housewife and she didn't want to be one. That wasn't who I fell in love with, and she wasn't happy about it either. In my world you dont lead the ones you love around by the nose or expect them to serve you. Why did she leave? because she felt she had lost herself, and she did. So, having those facts, can you go back to the way it was? No, we both already knew what went bump in the night, that part was over. Could it have been repaired? I believe and always will that it could with some time and some help. Same love, same people, but with a better understanding of each other, a better respect, and a stronger relationship then had ever been before. Not going home again, but building something better out of what was and lessons learned.
trippi1432 Posted June 6, 2010 Posted June 6, 2010 A lot of it has to do with exactly what it is you are trying to get back. A relationship, a marriage will never be the same as it was. Every fight, and separation will forever change you, and your partner. That history, that experience will never vanish from your shared history. So in that sense, no you cannot go home again. That doesn't mean to cast it off though, or that just because it broke down it cannot be rebuilt, and it can be rebuilt stronger and better through effort and understanding of how it broke in the first place. Heres where I am. Why did I love my wife? She was her own person, dancing to the beat of her own drum with her own ideas, opinions, hopes and dreams. Her own style, a creative and artistic soul. A writer, musician, educator. A creator! Sure there will always be a touch of conflict with someone like that, but it was always respected in her, admired, and loved. I saw that slip away. Opinions hidden away, what ever you want dear, and I dont care, wasn't what i had fallen in love with. I loved the girl that could stand up to tell me i was wrong. That wanted her own dreams even when they didn't match my own... and was willing to let me know. What did we fight about most? To be honest, it was her new found passivity! WHat ever you want dear and I don't care wasn't good enough, because it wasn't her. Yeah I pushed, yeah I challenged her, I dont know if it was the right thing to do or not, but I didn't want a yes man for a wife, I didn't want an obedient housewife and she didn't want to be one. That wasn't who I fell in love with, and she wasn't happy about it either. In my world you dont lead the ones you love around by the nose or expect them to serve you. Why did she leave? because she felt she had lost herself, and she did. So, having those facts, can you go back to the way it was? No, we both already knew what went bump in the night, that part was over. Could it have been repaired? I believe and always will that it could with some time and some help. Same love, same people, but with a better understanding of each other, a better respect, and a stronger relationship then had ever been before. Not going home again, but building something better out of what was and lessons learned. You, on one side of that fence....me on the other. You respected her for having an opinion, I was hated for mine. Two strong personalities, according to Marriage Builders (and $250), a marriage can be salvaged and become strong. It's knowing what you are each good at...it's knowing when to relinquish control and let the other person expend that control for a while. That's the home that gets rebuilt time after time...but if they become "monster's of pulling away the love", then yes...that person who walked to the beat of a different drum becomes nothing more than a liability in your eyes (speaking from my ex's experience only). It's important that they get the time to find their balance again, just as it is the same for you. We all go through difficult times, we all wish that we could go to bed happy and wake up happy...just doesn't always happen that way. Why did my ex love me, because I was my own person, why did he come to hate me, because I was my own person, why did he leave me, because I was my own person. But if you are going to challenge....expect what you get back. Why did he leave, because I wasn't going to change that (you know my daughter). Could it have been fixed...possibly...with you making a lot of concessions about what you wanted out of life. Not really practical on the way to MC to turn off wedding song in car and claim that you always hated that song (yes, he did). Is that fair...NO.
Author tojaz Posted June 6, 2010 Author Posted June 6, 2010 (edited) Well, yes i respected her, but that doesn't say that we never clashed due to being opinionated. We did, but for a very long time we knew how to work it out, she had the courage to know when i didn't want to march to that drum but that it was ok for her to keep on playing. It slowly though, bcame that if I wasn't in agreement for whatever the issue at hand was, it meant she couldn't be interested in it either. That was never the case though. Just as i didn't always expect her to follow me around with all that I did. Not that i didn't love her company and was more then happy to include her in anything. Thats what it became though. If I chose to do something alone, say an early morning ride or a game on the computer, she would feel slighted if she wasnt included, and if I wasn't 100% enthusiastic about everything that she came up with, she took it to mean that it wasn't alright for her, which was never the case. So she was by my side be it changing oil on her car or any other task, which is nice if she were interested and an appreciated gesture to be sure, but was taking away from her own interests. Vice versa, she likes to run, anybody who has seen me can tell that I'm no runner and i spend my whole day on my feet. To her that meant that she could only run when i was not around, once again not my saying. Its a tradeoff that has to be found in any relationship, what can you change for the other and what can you not. I like country music and she doesn't. Trade off? There is plenty of music we both enjoy, I didn't play it when shes around.I like a neat desk and shes a pack rat.. 2 desks. It didn't happen after awhile though. It was a conversation we never had, but really needed to. Quite simply that it was ok and safe to disagree! That we could still love each other and have differing interests and wants. Something we had worked out for ourselves for the most part, but never really realized we were doing it. So when something came up that did turn into a major issue, we didn't know how to handle it and it seemed like the end of the world... because it had never happened before. Edited June 6, 2010 by tojaz
tnttim Posted June 6, 2010 Posted June 6, 2010 Tojaz, I can see by your recent posts that she is still very much on your mind, even after a year. I am not saying you should have moved on, I believe we all move at our own pace, but I am saying that those women you dated can see that in your eyes. Woman see things men don't, they hear things men don't, and they feel things men can't. When you are ready to move on past your ex and really start living life on your own you will see women respond to you different. They respond positively to any man, married or not that they perceive as: independent, strong, passionate, compassionate, and acts like a man. You keep dwelling on the past and I think it's time to leave the past where it belongs, behind you. Good luck man, I wish the best for you.
trippi1432 Posted June 6, 2010 Posted June 6, 2010 Well, yes i respected her, but that doesn't say that we never clashed due to being opinionated. We did, but for a very long time we knew how to work it out, she had the courage to know when i didn't want to march to that drum but that it was ok for her to keep on playing. It slowly though, bcame that if I wasn't in agreement for whatever the issue at hand was, it meant she couldn't be interested in it either. That was never the case though. Just as i didn't always expect her to follow me around with all that I did. Not that i didn't love her company and was more then happy to include her in anything. Thats what it became though. If I chose to do something alone, say an early morning ride or a game on the computer, she would feel slighted if she wasnt included, and if I wasn't 100% enthusiastic about everything that she came up with, she took it to mean that it wasn't alright for her, which was never the case. So she was by my side be it changing oil on her car or any other task, which is nice if she were interested and an appreciated gesture to be sure, but was taking away from her own interests. Vice versa, she likes to run, anybody who has seen me can tell that I'm no runner and i spend my whole day on my feet. To her that meant that she could only run when i was not around, once again not my saying. Its a tradeoff that has to be found in any relationship, what can you change for the other and what can you not. I like country music and she doesn't. Trade off? There is plenty of music we both enjoy, I didn't play it when shes around.I like a neat desk and shes a pack rat.. 2 desks. It didn't happen after awhile though. It was a conversation we never had, but really needed to. Quite simply that it was ok and safe to disagree! That we could still love each other and have differing interests and wants. Something we had worked out for ourselves for the most part, but never really realized we were doing it. So when something came up that did turn into a major issue, we didn't know how to handle it and it seemed like the end of the world... because it had never happened before. Check your PM
trippi1432 Posted June 6, 2010 Posted June 6, 2010 Tojaz, I can see by your recent posts that she is still very much on your mind, even after a year. I am not saying you should have moved on, I believe we all move at our own pace, but I am saying that those women you dated can see that in your eyes. Woman see things men don't, they hear things men don't, and they feel things men can't. When you are ready to move on past your ex and really start living life on your own you will see women respond to you different. They respond positively to any man, married or not that they perceive as: independent, strong, passionate, compassionate, and acts like a man. You keep dwelling on the past and I think it's time to leave the past where it belongs, behind you. Good luck man, I wish the best for you. Good post....I actually think that this bodes well on both sides...there are some women that are just done, and then there are some that aren't through the hurting yet. It shows....the difference is, maybe men think women like that are easier targets. LOL! (Kidding)
tnttim Posted June 6, 2010 Posted June 6, 2010 Good post....I actually think that this bodes well on both sides...there are some women that are just done, and then there are some that aren't through the hurting yet. It shows....the difference is, maybe men think women like that are easier targets. LOL! (Kidding) The grass is greener syndrome, now that Tojaz is on the greener side she wants to visit. I would say f her, but in his case I think he knows what he should do.
trippi1432 Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 The grass is greener syndrome, now that Tojaz is on the greener side she wants to visit. I would say f her, but in his case I think he knows what he should do. Actually, not what I was referring to (I have a greener grass thread on here somewhere), but there is a lot of history in a relationship that lasts that long. My ex and I have a child together, the one thing that binds us...but I was thinking today how many times he thinks of crazy things he did, or some silly story he would like to tell the new woman....but historically it involves me somewhere. This is probably why he only limits his contact with her and his family to his mom and his drinking buddy. It's hard, and my heart goes out to you Tojaz...a difficult decision to let her back into your life at any level just to have her there or to try again if she is willing. Just don't be the string-along..again, my advice.
Author tojaz Posted June 7, 2010 Author Posted June 7, 2010 Good advice from all, and i really appreciate those that came to my "meltdown". This one has been a bit different for me, not exactly sure how and if thats good or bad, but it definitely different. No Trippi, Im not being the string along, I'm worth more then that. In the unlikely event that she would actually want to try again, its no back burner, and nothing else, its either trying and giving it her all or the door is closed. Friends? NO! not going to be the advice guy and watching someone date my "wife". Bit of cruel humor today courtesy of the powers that be. Went to a Chinese restaraunt with some family. Comparing the ever present fortune cookies presented the usual vague obvious fortunes.... except for mine "A mans best possession, is a sympathetic wife" Having had and then lost, I'd have to agree. Not sure why, but I saved the fortune and stuck it in my copy of "the love dare" :rolleyes: Yup, sentimental fool! TOJAZ
trippi1432 Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 Good advice from all, and i really appreciate those that came to my "meltdown". This one has been a bit different for me, not exactly sure how and if thats good or bad, but it definitely different. No Trippi, Im not being the string along, I'm worth more then that. In the unlikely event that she would actually want to try again, its no back burner, and nothing else, its either trying and giving it her all or the door is closed. Friends? NO! not going to be the advice guy and watching someone date my "wife". Bit of cruel humor today courtesy of the powers that be. Went to a Chinese restaraunt with some family. Comparing the ever present fortune cookies presented the usual vague obvious fortunes.... except for mine "A mans best possession, is a sympathetic wife" Having had and then lost, I'd have to agree. Not sure why, but I saved the fortune and stuck it in my copy of "the love dare" :rolleyes: Yup, sentimental fool! TOJAZ Yep, know what you mean....fortune cookies have a way of kicking our a** sometimes...mine were never right. :( I'm glad to hear the strength in your dilemma about being the string along....I was there too....remember. And you, as well as others here on LS, all gave me the strength I needed to know that I was better than back burner material. Again, a good answer to her latest email...."I've forgiven myself for what I did wrong in our marriage, you should forgive yourself as well so we can fully heal". It's not for them, it's for you, for you to forgive only that which you controlled. And not one person controls everything. And good for you!! Never, ever be her advice man for any future relationships...my ex tried to pull that crap....Cold!!
Steadfast Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 [quote name=trippi1 ...but I was thinking today how many times he thinks of crazy things he did, or some silly story he would like to tell the new woman....but historically it involves me somewhere. This is probably why he only limits his contact... [/quote] My ex loves to go down memory lane. It was one of the things we did (or, she did...like a lot of people I suppose) during our marriage that seemed to bring her a lot of happiness. Laughing about crazy or silly stuff that I did or things that happened to me. I was the focus of our family during our marriage in that regard...'remember when dad this this? (Laugh) Remember when he...' When she does that now, it's almost like nothing ever happened. Then, I'll catch a hint of realization in her eyes, followed by sadness. I think she has in many ways robbed herself of a lifetime of memories, and this haunts her. In the end, it's probably another consequence of her actions but it isn't shared with me. I'm neutral about it. When my GF is around, the kids will sometimes bring things up and she's amused. I catch her smiling at me because she sees the kids are happy and is glad their memories are intact. It's different than me bringing it up...you know? I don't. I'm all about making new memories now. For whatever reason this very much leaves the ex in the past. She hates it. I don't blame her...yet grateful I don't have to deal with it
trippi1432 Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 My ex loves to go down memory lane. It was one of the things we did (or, she did...like a lot of people I suppose) during our marriage that seemed to bring her a lot of happiness. Laughing about crazy or silly stuff that I did or things that happened to me. I was the focus of our family during our marriage in that regard...'remember when dad this this? (Laugh) Remember when he...' When she does that now, it's almost like nothing ever happened. Then, I'll catch a hint of realization in her eyes, followed by sadness. I think she has in many ways robbed herself of a lifetime of memories, and this haunts her. In the end, it's probably another consequence of her actions but it isn't shared with me. I'm neutral about it. When my GF is around, the kids will sometimes bring things up and she's amused. I catch her smiling at me because she sees the kids are happy and is glad their memories are intact. It's different than me bringing it up...you know? I don't. I'm all about making new memories now. For whatever reason this very much leaves the ex in the past. She hates it. I don't blame her...yet grateful I don't have to deal with it I didn't think about it that way, hopefully that is how his GF is seeing it since he walked away from his family to be with her. I hold those 15 years of memories and feel as those they robbed me of finding the right man for me that would have been faithful, supportive, kind and caring. His were always funny....mine were pretty much followed up by you dumb b*tch.....superlative, superlative. Ah, well....memory lane isn't all it's cracked up to be sometimes. I got a fortune cookie too Tojaz - was just opening it as I came home from lunch - The love of your life is right in front of your eyes. And they were, sitting right at the top of the stairs waiting for me to get home, my dog and my cat. Sorry, trying badly to add some humor, perhaps not called for.
Author tojaz Posted June 8, 2010 Author Posted June 8, 2010 (edited) They say humor is the best medicine Trippi, I can use all i can get these days. My memories are more of a crutch lately. Looking back at what I had and b eing glad it was in my life... at least for awhile. Its a double edged sword though as they come full circle and to this day cannot find anything that would have lead me to believe this would happen. Probably just me being a fool. TOJAZ Edited June 8, 2010 by tojaz
Author tojaz Posted June 10, 2010 Author Posted June 10, 2010 Yep, Fool. Just as soon as this little bit of interest appeared, it was gone just as suddenly. Just another pitfall i guess, and my stupid azz fell right into it. TOJAZ
What_Next Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 Tojaz, I honestly feel for you. I really do and I can only imagine what you are going through. It's very obvious that there is a strong bond still there. Even after a year it's also obvious that you have not let go. Only you can make that decision and given the facts as I see them there is only one decision to make. I fear I will be forced to make the very same one in the coming weeks. Good luck, stay strong and don't be afraid to post here.
Author tojaz Posted June 11, 2010 Author Posted June 11, 2010 Tojaz, I honestly feel for you. I really do and I can only imagine what you are going through. It's very obvious that there is a strong bond still there. Even after a year it's also obvious that you have not let go. Only you can make that decision and given the facts as I see them there is only one decision to make. I fear I will be forced to make the very same one in the coming weeks. Good luck, stay strong and don't be afraid to post here. Thanx What_Next. Decision, well thats not in my hands. I made my decision when I proposed. She made hers when she turned her back. There are many that say Let go as if it is easy. We can try, we can "fake it til we make it" but simple fact is, if you truly love that person, it can take a long time, and to be honest, I don't think we ever truly "let go" not completely, the ghosts of love lost will always be there to be remembered and sometimes relived. A square on a calendar or a song on the radio is all it takes. We learn to survive, we go on with our lives, but love is never forgotten. Believe me, I am not afraid to post! Good luck to you as well What_Next I must admit i havent read your thread yet, but I will weigh in as soon as i get a chance to get caught up. TOJAZ
floridapad Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 Tojaz, I can see by your recent posts that she is still very much on your mind, even after a year. I am not saying you should have moved on, I believe we all move at our own pace, but I am saying that those women you dated can see that in your eyes. Woman see things men don't, they hear things men don't, and they feel things men can't. When you are ready to move on past your ex and really start living life on your own you will see women respond to you different. They respond positively to any man, married or not that they perceive as: independent, strong, passionate, compassionate, and acts like a man. You keep dwelling on the past and I think it's time to leave the past where it belongs, behind you. Good luck man, I wish the best for you. Great post. Tojaz, you seem to be in a bit of a backslide. I'm sorry if I am not going to candy coat this but I think you see that sometimes candy coating is good and other times it is not. IMHO there is NO WAY you would ever be able to reconcile with her until you LET GO of her. It will come out in your interactions she will see it and pull back. Why are you playing this game with yourself? If she were to persue a recon before you let go and were able to be happy for yourself, do you think you might not still surface some resentment for what she has put you through? In my personal opinion (for myself), if I can't be happy for myself and I remain down because of the games I am allowing my wife to play with me, I will not be whole and be able to let go of the past should we ever reconcile. Let go. She is gone. In the remote chance something should happen down the road, you MUST have found your own happiness in order for a reconciliation to occur and for the past to remain buried in the past. I'm sorry if my opinion is a bit direct or misguided it is just my opinion for myself and I know fellow LSer's will be giving me a bit of grief.
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