Fantasizing...

[Jersey Shortie]

Perhaps to you that is arrogant that I said that I never once said someone else should just put aside their insecurities, or whatever, watch porn, grow as a person because heck, it worked for me.

 

No, what is arrogant to me is when you make the connection that grow as a person = accepting porn. You make the correlation even as you oddly both admit and try to deny it at the same time. And further, you take on this attitude because I don't agree.

 

What if they don't view porn as a weakness? After all, your view of porn is that it is a weakness, they may not see it as such. Sorry, but now who is being arrogant? You expect men to just what? Drop the porn and do as you say? Why? Because an image on a screen frightens you? Threatens you? Wow, I thought I was the one being arrogant and silly here

 

Ugg, this is just silly. You rather taunt me then have a regular conversation.

 

3) Nope, I don't, I don't have the answer, I have an answer, but not the answer. But neither do you. You have an answer, but not necessarily the right one, but of course, you expect us to take that as the right answer.

 

Why don't you ask me if I think I have the answer instead of insisting you know.

 

You make the assumption that (and you've posted this many times) that if a man watches porn or whatever, it belittles you and your actions for him, rendering them pointless. As a PP said, knock it off. I'm not trying to say I'm right here, but you never listen to reason at all.

 

You are trying to say you are right here because you don't agree with my beliefs and you are telling me to "knock it off". You don't have to agree, I do think a man's porn use belittles the relationship.

[harmfulsweetz]

No, what is arrogant to me is when you make the connection that grow as a person = accepting porn. You make the correlation even as you oddly both admit and try to deny it at the same time. And further, you take on this attitude because I don't agree.

 

 

 

Ugg, this is just silly. You rather taunt me then have a regular conversation.

 

 

 

Why don't you ask me if I think I have the answer instead of insisting you know.

 

 

 

You are trying to say you are right here because you don't agree with my beliefs and you are telling me to "knock it off". You don't have to agree, I do think a man's porn use belittles the relationship.

 

 

1) Nope, not at all. Reread, then tell me where I said exactly (in the exact words please) that accepting porn is about growth and development, it was for me, and I've not once said it is for everyone else. And I'm admitting and denying what? For me, accepting porn meant being able to confront what was really bothering me-myself. My own self image, my own sexuality. For some, it may not be the same, for others, it may just be.

 

2) Actually I asked a valid question-you view porn or whatever it is as a weakness, what if they don't? What if they watch it, enjoy it and think of it as a good part of their life? Pathetic it may be to you, what then? For you, it is a weakness, that's all well and good, but are you going to project that onto others too?

 

3) No, every single one of your posts drips with it, and you argue tenaciously with (specifically male posters) about your points. I will concede I'm probably way off the mark the majority of the time, my views are just that-mine. In the end, we are all here to grow as people in our understanding and acceptance, not to just doggedly rehash the same old arguments.

 

4) I'm telling you to knock it off, because people are kind of tired of it, it's a bogus point a lot of the time because it has no bearing on truth, the point about men watching porn and linking it to how satisfied he is, and if his partner satisfies him, he should not watch porn is and always will be trash. IME. You know why? I'm betting even Brad Pitt looks elsewhere from time to time. It's human nature.

 

5) You can't compare pedophilia to a normal fantasy, you just can't. They are apples and bloody steak, is what it is.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

 

The subject came up with a friend of mine... My husband is very respectful of me, even if he notices other women he would never let me know, make a comment or do it in front of me. Her husband on the other hand has no problem gawking at other women in front of her and even making comments on how hot they are... I've always been kind of curious anyway but it got me thinking... is it really ALL men or just the male stereotype? Is just men who are unsatisfied or is it just a common thing?

 

 

(I think) I'm spending my "700th post" on this, so:

 

 

In brief, YOU got a decent, respectful, and respectable guy and your friend settled for something less.

 

Who cares whether your guy fantasizes about anyone? Even if he does, he is decent and appropriate in keeping that to himself. I sense that any momentary interest he has in random women who pass through his day is just momentary and random and not to be cared about.

 

It simply shouldn't be that hard to demand to be respected to a greater degree than your friend's husband respects her. She mostly needs to raise her standards, though, and probably should have done so long ago.

 

Your friend's husband disrespects her in the ways you mention because she allows him to.

 

(and surely because his parents set the same sorts of examples for him long ago)

[SincereOnlineGuy]

1) Nope, not at all. Reread, then tell me where I said exactly (in the exact words please) that accepting porn is about growth and development, it was for me, and I've not once said it is for everyone else. And I'm admitting and denying what? For me, accepting porn meant being able to confront what was really bothering me-myself. My own self image, my own sexuality. For some, it may not be the same, for others, it may just be.

 

2) Actually I asked a valid question-you view porn or whatever it is as a weakness, what if they don't? What if they watch it, enjoy it and think of it as a good part of their life? Pathetic it may be to you, what then? For you, it is a weakness, that's all well and good, but are you going to project that onto others too?

 

3) No, every single one of your posts drips with it, and you argue tenaciously with (specifically male posters) about your points. I will concede I'm probably way off the mark the majority of the time, my views are just that-mine. In the end, we are all here to grow as people in our understanding and acceptance, not to just doggedly rehash the same old arguments.

 

4) I'm telling you to knock it off, because people are kind of tired of it, it's a bogus point a lot of the time because it has no bearing on truth, the point about men watching porn and linking it to how satisfied he is, and if his partner satisfies him, he should not watch porn is and always will be trash. IME. You know why? I'm betting even Brad Pitt looks elsewhere from time to time. It's human nature.

 

5) You can't compare pedophilia to a normal fantasy, you just can't. They are apples and bloody steak, is what it is.

 

 

 

Thanks for taking it to one of the more habitually-draining-for-zero-purpose encounters we tend to have here on LS.

[Mrs.Smith]

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My response is in italics.

 

I'm a big believer in the idea that this whole thing is all about insecurities, and being comfortable with yourself and others, accepting what you can control, and what you cannot. People so often ask for men/women to change things about them which bring up the worst in the person requesting change. i.e. a woman hates her man watching porn, he does so infrequently but so all the same, because it flares her insecurities. Rather than wondering-why am I so bothered by that image on the screen? What is it about that that makes me feel not good enough/inferior/like I'm not satisfying him enough? Is it the porn/him/me? Sometimes, people need to look inwards to find the answers they need, rather than projecting the questions outwards, at others.

 

Anyone who says it is not about insecurity, is lying. What else could it be about? Top and bottom of it, many women want to be the be all and end all of their partner's life, sexuality and all, and believe it is entirely possible to be. When they realize this is not the case, they throw a hissy fit, getting all pissy because you guessed it-he had a naughty thought, watched porn, looked at another woman. Alter expectations and you may find you could be happier.

 

When I was insecure, I expected the same thing. I expected that it was entirely possible that I could be the be all and end all of his thoughts, his sexuality, everything. I was quite arrogant to think about it. It almost split us up on so many occasions, because I could not grasp that in reality, I was enough, I was good enough, in fantasy, I was enough too, but sometimes, the mind wanders.

 

 

 

This feels absolutely pointless... Everyone is just reiterating everything they have already said.

AGAIN.... It's not ALL about insecurities! I don't understand why all you "open minded" people can't fathom that someone may have a different opinion from your own. When someone does have a different opinion from you there must be something wrong with them or its just because they are insecure. For myself personally, it's a spiritual thing, NOT insecurities. I was taught that you should guard your heart and your mind and if you don't that is when problems can occur. Men are visual creatures, and they were made that way but, men were also given a mind of their own and it's up to them to do what they want with it.

Yea, it has turned into a debate but I wouldn't at all say that this is a "healthy conversation" by any means. You aren't just explaining your point of view on this topic , you are projecting your opinions on us in a sense of "I am right and you are wrong". You are not open minded enough to maybe ask why we feel this way, or even take a second to try and see this from our point of view. No one is right or wrong here. We all have a right to feel the way we do without being criticized to judged because of it. Jersey does have a strong point of view, as do you, but she has not personally attacked anyone here. For everyone else... I wish I could say the same thing. She stands up for what she believes and doesn't back down to your criticism. If you really took a second, she does make a good point but because you don't like what she is saying you all feel the need to jump down her throat.

And just so you know, harmfulsweets,I wasn't saying that I think you are insecure, I was only making a point that it could go both ways. Hypothetically, one could say that because your insecurities caused issues in your previous relationship that you have altered you onion about things just to please men. You aren't "dealing" with your insecurities or "growing" from this issue, you are putting your feelings aside because you can't do anything about it. And, I get that you are sexually open, but why the need to put it out there? You are searching for that attention from men. Again, this is all hypothetical, I don't know you. I do agree with your feelings on insecurities. If you have them you need to understand them and how to deal with them. You can't expect anyone else to fix them but yourself. But denying your feelings and pretending they don't exist isn't the way to go about it

Also, I get that you were making the same point about thoughts being private, I was just clarifying myself. Just because I don't agree with a partner fantasizing about certain things, I also don't expect to change their thought process or "control" what they think about.

 

And how is fantasizing not personal? I am not talking about just a random thought of "wow, she looks good. I bet she is good in bed." I'm talking about a real fantasy. It's not like porn where he just whacks off to some porn star's vagina and gets off real quick. He is taking the time to dream up and imagine thoughts and scenarios with the neighbors wife. What her lips may feel like or what her breasts look like. And yes, it is just a thought... but no one has actually given a real answer to this question... A man is having fantasies about the neighbor's wife. One day she comes on the man... can it stay just a fantasy? Or is it too easy to give in to the real thing, because now it's not just a fantasy anymore. If he can't even control the urge to dream up these scenarios will he be able to control the urge when he is given the opportunity to make them real? And I'm sure when it comes down to it, hopefully their partner is worth more and they would turn down the opportunity. But, think about the statistics when it comes to infidelity. And it all starts with an innocent thought. Again, this is where my beliefs come into play. If you guard your heart and your mind, you won't find yourself being as tempted.

Edited June 14, 2010 by Mrs.Smith

[Mrs.Smith]

Also, when I'm seriously interested in a man, I only fantasize about him.. maybe that makes me a sad person, I don't know. It would be nice it it were true for him, in regards to me, as well.

 

(I'm British, too.)

 

Why would that make you a sad person? My husband is the only man I want, fantasize about, ect... and I am very proud of that and I would hope he would be too. Dont let anyone make you feel bad or its wrong to feel the way you do. I personally think its a very honorable thing.

[harmfulsweetz]

Thanks for taking it to one of the more habitually-draining-for-zero-purpose encounters we tend to have here on LS.

 

 

And you read my other posts, didn't you? I was simply making a point. It's not draining if you read the other responses which I actually thought were quite well thought out and honest, I'm entitled to post my opinion as is everyone else, and respond to those that respond to mine, ok?

[harmfulsweetz]

[FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]

 

 

 

 

 

 

This feels absolutely pointless... Everyone is just reiterating everything they have already said.

AGAIN.... It's not ALL about insecurities! I don't understand why all you "open minded" people can't fathom that someone may have a different opinion from your own. When someone does have a different opinion from you there must be something wrong with them or its just because they are insecure. For myself personally, it's a spiritual thing, NOT insecurities. I was taught that you should guard your heart and your mind and if you don't that is when problems can occur. Men are visual creatures, and they were made that way but, men were also given a mind of their own and it's up to them to do what they want with it.

Yea, it has turned into a debate but I wouldn't at all say that this is a "healthy conversation" by any means. You aren't just explaining your point of view on this topic , you are projecting your opinions on us in a sense of "I am right and you are wrong". You are not open minded enough to maybe ask why we feel this way, or even take a second to try and see this from our point of view. No one is right or wrong here. We all have a right to feel the way we do without being criticized to judged because of it. Jersey does have a strong point of view, as do you, but she has not personally attacked anyone here. For everyone else... I wish I could say the same thing. She stands up for what she believes and doesn't back down to your criticism. If you really took a second, she does make a good point but because you don't like what she is saying you all feel the need to jump down her throat.

And just so you know, harmfulsweets,I wasn't saying that I think you are insecure, I was only making a point that it could go both ways. Hypothetically, one could say that because your insecurities caused issues in your previous relationship that you have altered you onion about things just to please men. You aren't "dealing" with your insecurities or "growing" from this issue, you are putting your feelings aside because you can't do anything about it. And, I get that you are sexually open, but why the need to put it out there? You are searching for that attention from men. Again, this is all hypothetical, I don't know you. I do agree with your feelings on insecurities. If you have them you need to understand them and how to deal with them. You can't expect anyone else to fix them but yourself. But denying your feelings and pretending they don't exist isn't the way to go about it

Also, I get that you were making the same point about thoughts being private, I was just clarifying myself. Just because I don't agree with a partner fantasizing about certain things, I also don't expect to change their thought process or "control" what they think about.

 

And how is fantasizing not personal? I am not talking about just a random thought of "wow, she looks good. I bet she is good in bed." I'm talking about a real fantasy. It's not like porn where he just whacks off to some porn star's vagina and gets off real quick. He is taking the time to dream up and imagine thoughts and scenarios with the neighbors wife. What her lips may feel like or what her breasts look like. And yes, it is just a thought... but no one has actually given a real answer to this question... A man is having fantasies about the neighbor's wife. One day she comes on the man... can it stay just a fantasy? Or is it too easy to give in to the real thing, because now it's not just a fantasy anymore. If he can't even control the urge to dream up these scenarios will he be able to control the urge when he is given the opportunity to make them real? And I'm sure when it comes down to it, hopefully their partner is worth more and they would turn down the opportunity. But, think about the statistics when it comes to infidelity. And it all starts with an innocent thought. Again, this is where my beliefs come into play. If you guard your heart and your mind, you won't find yourself being as tempted.

 

I see your point. I do think, as I've said previously, it would be intimidating and rather worrying if my partner found my neighbor attractive and whacked off to her, hell yeah. I suppose it does start out as an innocent thought, and can turn to more, but then that leads down the trust route. Would you trust your partner (and this is entirely hypothetical) to make that judgment call and make the right choice? If I thought for one second, the answer was no, I'd seriously ask myself why. What is it about him that makes me believe he would do it if he got the chance? I've known some people to leave relationships because of this very reason-he found someone close either in proximity i.e. neighbor, or relationship wise-relative attractive, they didn't trust them enough not to act on it, and couldn't deal with the issues that ensued.

 

Can it stay just a fantasy? With the right, loyal, trustworthy partner it can. If not, it says it all about the person, and they are probably opportunistic deceitful liars, not worthy of your time.

 

I wouldn't say I was criticizing anyone, in fact, more pointing certain things that are obvious out. It is obvious that someone who is intimidated by porn or whatever it may be, could well have insecurities about themselves or their relationship. And Jersey did basically say the same thing, but from a different point. But I've already pointed that out. I'm also not saying I'm right, you are wrong, you're not wrong, I'm not right. Again, I'm fairly certain, in fact I'm 100% certain I wrote that. I don't have the right answer, no one does, I have an answer which is suitable to my life, and I'm good with that. I'm happier than I was when I took the path I was on.

 

Did I change to be accepted and to please men? No, not really. I'm not good with pleasing men, I have a habit of doing the opposite, I do think my issues stemmed from self-image issues, never really saw myself as good enough for anyone, and always felt belittled when a pretty girl entered the building. Inferiority complex is what people call it, I believe. I've learned to deal with that, the best way I can, which probably leads me to the whole taking a dating hiatus for a while.

 

I believe you don't have to guard your heart and your mind against temptation, but trust yourself to resist it.

[Mrs.Smith]

[FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]

 

 

 

 

 

 

AGAIN.... It's not ALL about insecurities! I don't understand why all you "open minded" people can't fathom that someone may have a different opinion from your own. When someone does have a different opinion from you there must be something wrong with them or its just because they are insecure. For myself personally, it's a spiritual thing, NOT insecurities. I was taught that you should guard your heart and your mind and if you don't that is when problems can occur. Men are visual creatures, and they were made that way but, men were also given a mind of their own and it's up to them to do what they want with it.

Yea, it has turned into a debate but I wouldn't at all say that this is a "healthy conversation" by any means. You aren't just explaining your point of view on this topic , you are projecting your opinions on us in a sense of "I am right and you are wrong". You are not open minded enough to maybe ask why we feel this way, or even take a second to try and see this from our point of view. No one is right or wrong here. We all have a right to feel the way we do without being criticized to judged because of it. Jersey does have a strong point of view, as do you, but she has not personally attacked anyone here. For everyone else... I wish I could say the same thing. She stands up for what she believes and doesn't back down to your criticism. If you really took a second, she does make a good point but because you don't like what she is saying you all feel the need to jump down her throat.

 

This was not directed at just you, I was gerearlly speaking for pretty much everyone involved in the thread so far.

[harmfulsweetz]

This was not directed at just you, I was gerearlly speaking for pretty much everyone involved in the thread so far.

 

 

cool.

 

To be fair, topics like this will cause debate. I like my debates. Sorry, if I come across a little...pushy? Don't have the right word for it.

[Mrs.Smith]

I see your point. I do think, as I've said previously, it would be intimidating and rather worrying if my partner found my neighbor attractive and whacked off to her, hell yeah. I suppose it does start out as an innocent thought, and can turn to more, but then that leads down the trust route. Would you trust your partner (and this is entirely hypothetical) to make that judgment call and make the right choice? If I thought for one second, the answer was no, I'd seriously ask myself why. What is it about him that makes me believe he would do it if he got the chance? I've known some people to leave relationships because of this very reason-he found someone close either in proximity i.e. neighbor, or relationship wise-relative attractive, they didn't trust them enough not to act on it, and couldn't deal with the issues that ensued.

 

Can it stay just a fantasy? With the right, loyal, trustworthy partner it can. If not, it says it all about the person, and they are probably opportunistic deceitful liars, not worthy of your time.

 

I wouldn't say I was criticizing anyone, in fact, more pointing certain things that are obvious out. It is obvious that someone who is intimidated by porn or whatever it may be, could well have insecurities about themselves or their relationship. And Jersey did basically say the same thing, but from a different point. But I've already pointed that out. I'm also not saying I'm right, you are wrong, you're not wrong, I'm not right. Again, I'm fairly certain, in fact I'm 100% certain I wrote that. I don't have the right answer, no one does, I have an answer which is suitable to my life, and I'm good with that. I'm happier than I was when I took the path I was on.

 

Did I change to be accepted and to please men? No, not really. I'm not good with pleasing men, I have a habit of doing the opposite, I do think my issues stemmed from self-image issues, never really saw myself as good enough for anyone, and always felt belittled when a pretty girl entered the building. Inferiority complex is what people call it, I believe. I've learned to deal with that, the best way I can, which probably leads me to the whole taking a dating hiatus for a while.

 

I believe you don't have to guard your heart and your mind against temptation, but trust yourself to resist it.

 

Thank you, I appreciate your sincerity and even if you dont agree with me, thank you for trying to see my point of view. Also, you may not of had any intentions for your words to come out as if you were right and we are wrong, but you were very specific when explaining "your" points of view. And honestly, that wasnt just directed at you. Also, I dont judge you, I dont know a thing about you, and when I gave you my hypothetical, thats really all it was.

[harmfulsweetz]

Thank you, I appreciate your sincerity and even if you dont agree with me, thank you for trying to see my point of view. Also, you may not of had any intentions for your words to come out as if you were right and we are wrong, but you were very specific when explaining "your" points of view. And honestly, that wasnt just directed at you. Also, I dont judge you, I dont know a thing about you, and when I gave you my hypothetical, thats really all it was.

 

 

 

Sorry, I do have a habit of doing that. I didn't think you were judging me. I don't want to come across as this 'I'm right, you're wrong' I just have strong opinions, for myself. I honestly do see your point, it makes total sense and if placed in the hypothetical situation, I may well share that view.

[SouthernSunshine]

So that explaines why my SO gave me incredible foreplay the same day he was flattered that a car full of hot bikini girls drove by yelling, and waving at him while he was walking the dog.. We were on vacation, but yeah.. receiving oral that night was a little different, and he wanted all the lights off. *frown*

[Jersey Shortie]

1) Nope, not at all. Reread, then tell me where I said exactly (in the exact words please) that accepting porn is about growth and development, it was for me, and I've not once said it is for everyone else.

 

I have read what you've been saying loud and clear HarmfulSweetz. You make the bold encompassing proclamation that anyone that says it's not about insecurity is lying. So to you, acceptance of porn, at least as a woman, is about growth and development because any female who doesn't agree with porn, must be insecure.

 

Now you're back tracking right out of their own opinion because at this time and place it suits you to. Oh, by the way, the never ending injection of eyeroll emotes that show not just mere disagreement with another's viewpoint but purposely arrogant sarcasm with an intent to be slightly belitting is very obvious. You should exercise the little guy less and it won't be so obvious.

 

But if you want to revisit some of the things you said, lets have at it.

 

HarmfulSweetz:

Anyone who says it is not about insecurity, is lying. What else could it be about? Top and bottom of it, many women want to be the be all and end all of their partner's life, sexuality and all, and believe it is entirely possible to be. When they realize this is not the case, they throw a hissy fit, getting all pissy because you guessed it-he had a naughty thought, watched porn, looked at another woman. Alter expectations and you may find you could be happier.

 

Your posting is very insidious. You put women down that don't think like you. Take note to the words and phrases that are bolded because you purposely use negative commentary towards women to described what you condesendingly inturpret their feelings to be. While your commentary on men's feelings is treated with a more careful delicate hand. But the meaning of this post is not lost. Women bad for their feelings. Men good for theirs. You becry the insecurity of women and boldly say any woman that says different is an outright lyer but don't want to acknowledge how male insecurity plays it's part or the fact that maybe some women just think porn takes away from their relationship and that the porn industry is degrading to women. The fact that you reduce women's opinon on the subject to just insecurity shows a lack of respect for the 100 different ways anyone can think on the topic. There are even men on this board that agree porn use isn't healthy. Futher, your advice is clearly for women to alter their expectations but you offer no such advice to men. Your opinion is women need to be the ones to exercise self control while men should be able to indulge themselves when they need to because they are men.

 

 

2) Actually I asked a valid question-you view porn or whatever it is as a weakness, what if they don't? What if they watch it, enjoy it and think of it as a good part of their life? Pathetic it may be to you, what then? For you, it is a weakness, that's all well and good, but are you going to project that onto others too?

 

No cigar. Lets take a look at exactly what you said the first time around:

 

What if they don't view porn as a weakness? After all, your view of porn is that it is a weakness, they may not see it as such. Sorry, but now who is being arrogant? You expect men to just what? Drop the porn and do as you say? Why? Because an image on a screen frightens you? Threatens you? Wow, I thought I was the one being arrogant and silly here

 

You didn't want an answer to the question, you wanted to make a personal point about your view on the topic over mine which is it was all about only insecurity. Your question, had nothing to do with really wanting to know the answer. If it had, you wouldn't have followed it with all those other silly purposeful interjections that were put in the style of insincere questions. You didn't ask me if it threatened me you pretty much stated that was the case in your minds eye.

 

I think most people think porn as a weakness. Because it is. Men might defend their use of it but they understand that it's a weakness. NO man is proud of his porn use. No man feels like he accomplished something because of his porn use.

 

 

3) No, every single one of your posts drips with it, and you argue tenaciously with (specifically male posters) about your points. I will concede I'm probably way off the mark the majority of the time, my views are just that-mine. In the end, we are all here to grow as people in our understanding and acceptance, not to just doggedly rehash the same old arguments.

 

Who are you to say which posters haven't or have grown? I'll post in the manner that suits me and you do the same. That's what amessage board is about.

 

4) I'm telling you to knock it off, because people are kind of tired of it, it's a bogus point a lot of the time because it has no bearing on truth, the point about men watching porn and linking it to how satisfied he is, and if his partner satisfies him, he should not watch porn is and always will be trash. IME. You know why? I'm betting even Brad Pitt looks elsewhere from time to time. It's human nature.

 

Make up your mind. Are people allowed to have their different opinions or not? You're telling me to knock it off? Knock off my opinion? Okay you knock off your opinion too. (I threw that in special for you).

 

Let me be clear because you convienently have decided to ignore this. I think that some amount of noticing other other people is natural. I do not think today's standards of over indulgence is natural. I think too many men and women feel they need to run and satisfy every little urge they have the second they have it. I don't think that's natural. I think that's lazy and selfish. I have heard so many guys say that "well she can't be around 24/7". That's right. she can't. So that means you need to go looking else where the second she has her back turned? Sheesh. I think that we are fat on more then just food in this nation and I think porn is much more insidious because it's something you can get for free right into your home, thats not even something food can do. Lastly, if you are going to argue about what is "natural", it's foolish to defend porn on feelings of sex and deny how a woman can react to her man responding to other women sexually. If a porn video is enough to get a man aroused, it's enough to arouse other feelings as well.

 

You can't compare pedophilia to a normal fantasy, you just can't. They are apples and bloody steak, is what it is.

 

Get a clue. I am not comparing pedophilia to normal fantasy. I am comparing the idea that whatever we think is accetable by society and the pc nonsense that it should be. There is certainly a scale but just because someone thinks it in their mind doesn't mean another will or should just accept it or would won't change their opinion of someone if they knew what they were thinking.

[harmfulsweetz]

I have read what you've been saying loud and clear HarmfulSweetz. You make the bold encompassing proclamation that anyone that says it's not about insecurity is lying. So to you, acceptance of porn, at least as a woman, is about growth and development because any female who doesn't agree with porn, must be insecure.

 

Now you're back tracking right out of their own opinion because at this time and place it suits you to. Oh, by the way, the never ending injection of eyeroll emotes that show not just mere disagreement with another's viewpoint but purposely arrogant sarcasm with an intent to be slightly belitting is very obvious. You should exercise the little guy less and it won't be so obvious.

 

But if you want to revisit some of the things you said, lets have at it.

 

 

 

Your posting is very insidious. You put women down that don't think like you. Take note to the words and phrases that are bolded because you purposely use negative commentary towards women to described what you condesendingly inturpret their feelings to be. While your commentary on men's feelings is treated with a more careful delicate hand. But the meaning of this post is not lost. Women bad for their feelings. Men good for theirs. You becry the insecurity of women and boldly say any woman that says different is an outright lyer but don't want to acknowledge how male insecurity plays it's part or the fact that maybe some women just think porn takes away from their relationship and that the porn industry is degrading to women. The fact that you reduce women's opinon on the subject to just insecurity shows a lack of respect for the 100 different ways anyone can think on the topic. There are even men on this board that agree porn use isn't healthy. Futher, your advice is clearly for women to alter their expectations but you offer no such advice to men. Your opinion is women need to be the ones to exercise self control while men should be able to indulge themselves when they need to because they are men.

 

 

 

 

No cigar. Lets take a look at exactly what you said the first time around:

 

 

 

You didn't want an answer to the question, you wanted to make a personal point about your view on the topic over mine which is it was all about only insecurity. Your question, had nothing to do with really wanting to know the answer. If it had, you wouldn't have followed it with all those other silly purposeful interjections that were put in the style of insincere questions. You didn't ask me if it threatened me you pretty much stated that was the case in your minds eye.

 

I think most people think porn as a weakness. Because it is. Men might defend their use of it but they understand that it's a weakness. NO man is proud of his porn use. No man feels like he accomplished something because of his porn use.

 

 

 

 

Who are you to say which posters haven't or have grown? I'll post in the manner that suits me and you do the same. That's what amessage board is about.

 

 

 

Make up your mind. Are people allowed to have their different opinions or not? You're telling me to knock it off? Knock off my opinion? Okay you knock off your opinion too. (I threw that in special for you).

 

Let me be clear because you convienently have decided to ignore this. I think that some amount of noticing other other people is natural. I do not think today's standards of over indulgence is natural. I think too many men and women feel they need to run and satisfy every little urge they have the second they have it. I don't think that's natural. I think that's lazy and selfish. I have heard so many guys say that "well she can't be around 24/7". That's right. she can't. So that means you need to go looking else where the second she has her back turned? Sheesh. I think that we are fat on more then just food in this nation and I think porn is much more insidious because it's something you can get for free right into your home, thats not even something food can do. Lastly, if you are going to argue about what is "natural", it's foolish to defend porn on feelings of sex and deny how a woman can react to her man responding to other women sexually. If a porn video is enough to get a man aroused, it's enough to arouse other feelings as well.

 

 

 

Get a clue. I am not comparing pedophilia to normal fantasy. I am comparing the idea that whatever we think is accetable by society and the pc nonsense that it should be. There is certainly a scale but just because someone thinks it in their mind doesn't mean another will or should just accept it or would won't change their opinion of someone if they knew what they were thinking.

 

 

1) Not at all. I may not have phrased it the best way, but the majority of people who think as above it is about insecurity. I apologize if, for you, that matter is not true, but it certainly seems it is. From my standpoint and on the things that you have posted. Seriously, I'm asking why do you feel this way? I'm not making a point here, I would honestly like to know. It may help me understand better.

 

2) Not at all again, you can like or dislike, accept or not, porn is a personal choice, and all of that. However, I think people should accept for others what they do not for themselves i.e. if you don't like porn, it doesn't mean the person you are with, shouldn't.

 

3) No, I like the eyerolling emoticon, it moves and I likes it. Not really much to it than that, I don't read things with arrogant sarcasm but then I don't like to infer what is actually not there.

 

4) Not really, I made a point, perhaps not put in the best way, but then, I can't really care all that much to sit here and work exactly which vocabulary I'm going to use in case I happen to offend anyone.

 

5) My opinion is not that women should exercise self control, and men should do as they will freely. Yours is the exact opposite if I'm correct? Slightly hypocritical if so. My opinion is that people should all work on their weaknesses, on their issues, on themselves rather than projecting these things at something which probably had nothing to do with it, but I don't know, because you've evaded my question and have never (from what I've read) shared why you dislike porn so much.

 

6) I want the answer to the question-third time around. Why do you dislike porn?

 

7) No, men hide it, not because it's a weakness, but because of the trouble that will surely ensue. It's common sense, if you know that there's going to just be arguments at the end of it, you're bound to hide it. Not because they see it as weak- most men don't think of it much at all past entertainment (I think) and women have a tendency to think more of it.

 

8) Never said you hadn't grown, what I did say was that your posts have a tendency to rehash the same arguments perhaps just my observation.

 

9) Perhaps that's true. In some cases.

[MrNate]

Jersey, are you ready to admit that you think women are better than men in everything? Since, according to you, there's not much, if at all, anything men can do right.

 

 

You've given off this vibe for quite some time.

 

I think this is the first step to making things better.

[r6060]

I am not talking about just a random thought of "wow, she looks good. I bet she is good in bed." I'm talking about a real fantasy.

 

To answer your original question, for me yes.

 

But, it's never been the random neighbor, actress or person walking down the street. It's a specific woman and it's a lot more about what we shared. It didn't have anything to do with the satisfaction I drew from the current relationship I was in.

 

I'm single now, but even when I wasn't, she was still there. And every woman who I have ever been with has been better off because she was there. Isn't that why we experience things in life, it makes us who we really are? Isn't what we are able to bring to a relationship just a combination of all the good that we have absorbed and bad that we have rejected from previous relationships? Some partners have supplied far more of the "good" of who you are than other partners have. I don't think you should ever lose the fantasies about someone who is truly worthy of fantasizing about. and... I don't think it's disrespectful to your current partner, if she moves you the same way then she will become that person in the future.

Edited June 17, 2010 by r6060

[Jersey Shortie]

1) Not at all.

 

Harmful, you said:

 

Anyone who says it is not about insecurity, is lying. What else could it be about?

 

That's a pretty secure thought.

 

I may not have phrased it the best way, but the majority of people who think as above it is about insecurity. I apologize if, for you, that matter is not true, but it certainly seems it is. From my standpoint and on the things that you have posted. Seriously, I'm asking why do you feel this way? I'm not making a point here, I would honestly like to know. It may help me understand better.

 

I'm not asking you to apologize. You asked for proof about your commentary and I provided it. Also, don't waste time on apologies you don't really mean because after apologizing you followed it up with justifying why you felt the way you did. Which is fine for you to have any opinion of me you want. But you asked for proof about the point I was making and that quote was part of it.

 

Clearly, insecurity is part of it. I agree that has a place and that not all insecurity is healthy. But where I differ is that I think insecurity is on both sides on this issue. Telling men that it's okay for men to do what's natural and condemning women for responding just as naturally to porn in their own way, is plain wrong. And I don't think female insecurity about wondering what their man is thinking and where his head is in relation to their relationship, other women and porn is totally ridiculous. And to be honest, I think women have a reason to be insecure. Just look at the responses that many of the guys on this board make whenever this topic comes up. What gets defended is porn. And they fully will do what they have to, to make sure they can keep the peace AND have porn on top of that. That's not normal. I wonder how many men could truly go without porn and be perfectly happy with themselves and their lives and sexuality. I am betting it's less then you think.

 

 

Not at all again, you can like or dislike, accept or not, porn is a personal choice, and all of that. However, I think people should accept for others what they do not for themselves i.e. if you don't like porn, it doesn't mean the person you are with, shouldn't.

 

Yeap. That's true. But when you are in a relationship, you need to consider how your behavior affects the other person. It comes down to what is more important to each person. And too often, men prove that porn is more important if you ask me. Because they more times then not, defend porn. THey save their energy for defending porn. They play White Knight, to porn. That's insecurity in itself.

 

3) No, I like the eyerolling emoticon, it moves and I likes it. Not really much to it than that, I don't read things with arrogant sarcasm but then I don't like to infer what is actually not there.

 

You use the eyeroll emote because eyerolling universally expresses annoyance at someone else. Not mere disagreement. And yes, you do like to infer what is not actually there.

 

 

5) My opinion is not that women should exercise self control, and men should do as they will freely. Yours is the exact opposite if I'm correct? Slightly hypocritical if so

.

 

Ugg, what was that about you not liking to infer what is not there? Come on, seriously. I said no such thing. I infact said both should exercise self control when you brought this up a few posts back. You've decided to ignore it because it's suited you to do so.

 

My opinion is that people should all work on their weaknesses, on their issues, on themselves rather than projecting these things at something which probably had nothing to do with it, but I don't know, because you've evaded my question and have never (from what I've read) shared why you dislike porn so much.

 

I've shared why I dislike porn a thousand times. And you very well know it. Up until this point, the questions you "asked" where more snarky accusations then honest questions. I dont like porn because I think it takes away from a relationship, I think it's saturated fat, I think it's degrading to women and men, and I think in today's culture, men spend way too much time on porn then ever before and it's cause for concern. I think younger generations of boys are growing up on it, and I don't think that's healthy. I think men do themselves a greater injustice by defining their sexuality and masculinity by something like porn. And they do just that. I have my insecurities. I never denied this. And I think my concerns are valid.

 

7) No, men hide it, not because it's a weakness, but because of the trouble that will surely ensue. It's common sense, if you know that there's going to just be arguments at the end of it, you're bound to hide it. Not because they see it as weak- most men don't think of it much at all past entertainment (I think) and women have a tendency to think more of it.

 

Sure, men hide it because they don't want an argument. Never disagreed with that. And they hide it because they know it's nothing to be proud of and it is infact a weakness. I think even on this issue, most men do consider porn a weakness. They just want it to be one a woman accepts and panders to for him. And clearly from this board, men think just as much as porn as women do. They wouldn't defend it like they do and this argument wouldn't go on for pages with both men and women if it wasn't a sensitive issue for both. And no, that's not woman's fault.

 

8) Never said you hadn't grown, what I did say was that your posts have a tendency to rehash the same arguments perhaps just my observation

.

 

So do yours.

 

9) Perhaps that's true. In some cases.

 

Of course t's true.

[Major]

I'm a woman in a very, satisfied relationship, however, I fantasize about other men. Surprise! Now, men are hard-wired that way. However, I will say, as a monogomous woman in love, I will never, ever, ever, do anything against myself or this man I love. He deserves everything that I am and will be and I will be with him through it all. There is no man that compares to him, celebrity or not, and he has my body and all that goes with it. It's just a fantasy. However, when it comes to the real deal. That's totally untouchable. Totally!