Ravenwood Posted June 1, 2010 Posted June 1, 2010 Hi guys, Ive never posted but have been reading now for a few months. In short, my wife and I are facing divorce. I'll fill you in on the backstory as concise as possible. We knew each other for a few years before we started dating, dated briefly and then got engaged. Engagement lasted a year and then we got married. marriage was great for the first year, then got difficult into the second and now we are considering divorce just short of our third anniversary. Our problems were few, I had trouble accepting her previous relationships (2) and that led to a few fights, but eventually I got over them. I never saw eye to eye with her parents, but that has changed as of this last year. I now feel closer to my father in law then my own father and I can at least respect my mother in law. Just before the start of our second year i got promoted to manager in one of my companies departments. It was a horrible experience, it took all my time, placed immense stress on me, and we lost our way as a couple. When it became obvious what was happening to me personally and to my marriage, I stepped down and transfered to a new department as an assistant manager. I pull no punches here, I admit i neglected her and shouldn't have, but she made no attempt to talk to me about her problems, or anyone else, for that matter. I also admit that durring the lowest point I probably would have cheated if I had the opportunity, but i didn't. She had also started taking a pole dancing class that I was okay with at first, but then became concerned about when I saw how it changed her. She became more confident(not something I had a problem with), but also more sexual, not only towards me. She started spending more time with friends (all single) and texting them often (Especially two men that she works with) She had already left to stay with her parents once, but came back and was apologetic, then I discovered she had had and Emotional Affair with a man at her work. I found the pictures she had sent him (topless) in her email. (I was snooping due to suspicions, but she knew I had the password because she told me what it was when she changed it last) After much soul searching I forgave her, with conditions that she not have any contact with this man, and that she find a new job, and we moved on. I couldn't really blame her when I saw how close I was to cheating as well. We saw a marriage councelor from her church once, three weeks ago. He was supposed to come tonight again, but canceled. We tried doing a date night Saturday, but had an argument over sex when we got home. She said she wanted to be single again, that she never really got her chance to be before we were married. Also that she has changed while i've stayed the same. She has a problem because she wants to be social, while I am happly staying at home with her most nights (Im not stopping her from going anywhere or from seeing anyone, I just don't have the desire to go out like she does.) Sunday I went to talk to her dad about our problems, I was seeking help and my parents are out of town. At the same time my wife met her mother. After listening to both of us seperate they got us together and with aired everything out, got to a compromise on the pole dancing class, a focus on my trust issues, and a commitment to work on the marriage and see a professional marriage councelor. I don't like to say that there are sides in this, but both of her parents seemed to 'side' with me on these issues(lousy term to use, but thats as close as I can think of) Today she still says she wants to be single, but is willing to work on the marriage. We looked at councelors and I am calling one tomorrow. Her arguments are very contradictory, she wants to be single , but says she wants to work on our marriage. She argues that I am too jealous, but admits to her affair. She says she wants to do things together, but then says that its annoying when we run together on our workouts, or carpool to work. She also has a tendancy to simply get frustrated and walk away during an argument, this has led to some long running issues that never get resolved. She also has been unable to place marriage above her friends when asked by me to prioritze the two. I am very worried for my marriage, I don't want it to end and I love her dearly. I admit where I failed, but I don't think we are so damaged that divorce is the only option. What do you guys think? Will MC be helpful at all to us?
Steadfast Posted June 1, 2010 Posted June 1, 2010 My ex wife's motive and behavior qualifies me to comment on this. I'm not saying it's the same, but there's a better than average chance that your wife is prone to the same mindset and motive. That is, it's all about her right now. More likely, it always has been. In my case, my ex's issues are ones that continue on, two-years post divorce. That of course, means it was an issue that has been present with her for far longer than that; perhaps even before I knew her and extending into her childhood. She came from a very large family. Her father was a (non divorced) philanderer with an entire other family, while her mother hid her extreme bitterness behind a sweet persona. There's a history and pattern of infidelity with many of her siblings; she's witnessed most of her older brothers cheat on their wives, while the older sisters have either cheated or been cheated. Loads of guilt, secrecy and suffering is commonplace. The whole lot is very attractive too. I didn't stand a chance. What is your wife's family history? How does she relate with her family members? This can go a long way towards figuring what you're up against. In another forum here on LS, a member (Darth Vader) posted this. I include it here whole because I can't say it any better: Why does she want to stay married? Security! Having the best of both worlds, that's what cake eaters do! In case her affair partner doesn't work out, then well, your wife has dubbed you as the fall back guy, her back up plan in case her affair partner ditches her! Another words, you're her Second choice! I really hate to say that, but, why would you want to stay with someone who has made you their second choice, their fall back plan? Sadly, I fear this may be the case with you, as it certainly was for me. Again, I'll repeat that after everything; my ex's sense of entitlement, a underlying current of 'owing her something' the entire marriage, general discontent, pulling away, cheating, confession (followed by a profession of love and care for me) continued infidelity and the eventual divorce; she still feels a strong desire to keep me available. To summarize, she feels like she deserves something better, but in the event that she's wrong the fear of actually being worse off requires throwing you enough bread crumbs to keep you around. MC won't help. My advice to you is to set very clear boundaries and STICK WITH THEM NO MATTER WHAT. Nothing you have, or might have done either caused or can condone her actions. After you've made this hard line clear to her, refrain from talking about your relationship. Again, that means NOTHING. Make your requirements for staying in the marriage clear, then let her mull over it. No begging, no apologizing, no bending over. It's all you, or nothing. This is your best and only chance. There's a good chance it's too late already, and if that's the case file for divorce and press on without her. Kids, or no kids. Don't allow her cake eating or indecision to rule your life. You decide for you. Take it back. Good luck, keep us posted-
You Go Girl Posted June 1, 2010 Posted June 1, 2010 MC will be very helpful to you, as long as you keep it focused. That's the job of your counselor. Don't let him/her forget it. I think the best thing to do when going to a MC is to have your goals, and lay them out in front of them. Don't let them waste months going over past history, yadda yadda. A little at the beginning is necessary, but not prolonged. The biggest issue here is that your wife has found some thrill seeking in life that makes her think the single life is more exciting. Everything we do has payoffs/rewards. She is thinking it is more rewarding to be single. So an assessment of her future goals is in order, aside from the future goals of the two of you. Speaking of that, you do have a life plan of sorts? Where the two of you want to be in 5 years? 1 year? Perhaps your wife doesn't feel there is one, which can lead to this situation. Can your marriage be saved? Although it doesn't look good, I have no idea what wants and needs she will say are missing in therapy. The question is, are those wants/needs something she can have and still be married, or is she just too far gone? Have your priorities, marriage and personal, worked out for the counseling session so that you are clear as to what you want and need in life, whether married or not. What about a stressful job makes a man want to have an affair? You need to answer that, not for me, but for you...because I don't see a connection between the two of them. Boundaries. You need to discuss in therapy what are the boundaries in your marriage. Sexual and emotional.
sotagoon Posted June 1, 2010 Posted June 1, 2010 The ONLY way MC will work for you and your estranged wife......is if she is the one that wants it almost more than you. (At this point) I am another witness/participant in this same scenario....hell...I wasn;t even good enough in her eyes to be there through her OWN cancer treatment/battle. I'm telling you right now....unless she wants YOU and ONLY YOU....you are pissing upstream. Trust me....I've burned myself out and lost some friends because of my own one sided battle. HELP YOURSELF......PLEASE....TRUST ME..as I'm sure others here will tell you the same. If you want...here's my story....and I'll ruin it for you....It doesn't turn out well....NOTHING LIKE THE MOVIES! http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t214146/ MC will be very helpful to you, as long as you keep it focused. That's the job of your counselor. Don't let him/her forget it. I think the best thing to do when going to a MC is to have your goals, and lay them out in front of them. Don't let them waste months going over past history, yadda yadda. A little at the beginning is necessary, but not prolonged. The biggest issue here is that your wife has found some thrill seeking in life that makes her think the single life is more exciting. Everything we do has payoffs/rewards. She is thinking it is more rewarding to be single. So an assessment of her future goals is in order, aside from the future goals of the two of you. Speaking of that, you do have a life plan of sorts? Where the two of you want to be in 5 years? 1 year? Perhaps your wife doesn't feel there is one, which can lead to this situation. Can your marriage be saved? Although it doesn't look good, I have no idea what wants and needs she will say are missing in therapy. The question is, are those wants/needs something she can have and still be married, or is she just too far gone? Have your priorities, marriage and personal, worked out for the counseling session so that you are clear as to what you want and need in life, whether married or not. What about a stressful job makes a man want to have an affair? You need to answer that, not for me, but for you...because I don't see a connection between the two of them. Boundaries. You need to discuss in therapy what are the boundaries in your marriage. Sexual and emotional.
Author Ravenwood Posted June 2, 2010 Author Posted June 2, 2010 Thanks for the replys guys. History: My wife is 23, her family consists of a mother and father, never divorced, never cheated (That i know of). 1 younger brother, kind of a douche bag but otherwise an ok guy. Her parents moved out to Alberta years ago for jobs. The rest of their extended family (Parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles etc. are in Ontario, about 1000 miles away.) Divorce was an issue early in their marriage, but it got worked out. I had issues with them early on, but have gained much respect and understanding with them in the last year. I trust them. I am 26, my parents are never divorced, and there is no cheating that I am aware of. I have one sister, my wife's age, married with one child. My entire extended family (large due to divorce and remarriage) is here. My wife gets along with my parents, but not my sister(not a problem, since my sister lives two towns over, and is not included very much in my life. I still love her though and we don't have many problems) I am a full time meatcutter for a large grocery chain in Canada, very good pay excellent benifits and vacation time, but less than favorable working conditions right now. My wife is a dry goods clerk for another large grocery chain, lousy pay, ok benifits and vacation, limited vacation and ok working conditions. My wife suffered in school and early childhood, she has a mild learning disability coupled with ADD (Im not sure I buy into ADD, by the way) and poor impulse control(money is a nightmare for her) She didn't make friends easily and her parents really didn't help all that much durring childhood, but after really talking with them i have learned that they were doing the best they could at the time. Ok now for an update: I called her dad and told him I was coming over tonight after work and wanted to talk (my parents are still out of town on vacation). When I got there, my wife had also showing up. She gave her mother some sob story about wanting to sort things out, so she is staying there for a day or two. My father in law got her and her mother out of the house and we discussed how she had told me she thought she wanted to be single again and wanted to date again, we discussed her friend issues as well. We also discussed how I took their advice and had put everything they wanted us to do into motion. We also discussed her professed bisexual tendancies (although she has never been with another woman) This was all news to him as she had not told him any of this. He also didn't know that my mother in law had allowed my wife to stay until just after i got there. He told me not to worry, that he was on my side(again, I hate using the word 'side') on this and would do his best to get her to get the marriage sorted out. I asked how my mother in law felt and he smiled and told me that she was pissed off, exasperated, and was tired of my wife letting her marriage down. They are both very dissapointed in her right now. I talked with my wife and got the same old, I just want time to sort my own feelings out, I just feel like crying when we are together thing. When I was leaving I asked if she was still going to her pole dancing class tomorrow. She said yes and I said "So you can't be at home because of your feelings, but you can be at pole class?" I shook my head, hugged and kissed her and told her to go away so I could say goodbye to her parents. She left, I told them what she said, and they both shook their heads and told me that all three of them would be up late tonight and this wasn't going to be a picnic for my wife. I hugged them and left. So here I am at home alone, watching a movie and enjoying a lip of copenhagen even though I quit years ago when I got out of the military, I figure cancer would be the least of my problems right now.
Author Ravenwood Posted June 2, 2010 Author Posted June 2, 2010 Speaking of that, you do have a life plan of sorts? Where the two of you want to be in 5 years? 1 year? Perhaps your wife doesn't feel there is one, which can lead to this situation. What about a stressful job makes a man want to have an affair? You need to answer that, not for me, but for you...because I don't see a connection between the two of them. Our life plan (although sidetracked right now) was to own a home within five years and start having kids when I turned 30. Short term goals were mostly places that we wanted to go before we had kids, (Ireland, and possibly South Africa if things calmed down over there.) Our planning was vauge an limited and we never really got on track, so you have a strong point there. (This was also brought up by my inlaws on Sunday, in the same words (1 year and 5 year plans) Im not sure if it was the job that made me succeptible to an affair, perhaps it was the feeling of control and release, or a selfish instinct to reward myself when my job was controlling me. Possibly it was the emotional disconnect I had with my wife, who wasn't really helpful when I was stressed out and depressed. Dont get me wrong, Im very thankful that someone was looking out for me and the oppourtunity never presented itself. I would be very regretful if I had hurt my wife in that way. I am not perfect and I admit that I have done things wrong in my marriage. I don't think any of us can't say they were totally innocent in our marriages.
V1k1ng0 Posted June 2, 2010 Posted June 2, 2010 My wife is prone to emotional affairs and as far as I can tell has had two with the first leading to physical interactions with the other individual. I am not sure about the second one but I can tell you she became a different person. She started wanting to go to bars with her friends from work(all men), got a tattoo and started distancing herself from me. The first time I quit my job, sold our house and moved us all back to her hometown so she could be around her family more and we could go to marriage counseling. We went twice and she got a job and never went back. She never really wanted to go. When her family found out about her affair they were upset with her and to me it seemed like their disappointment gave her a reality check. I know the pain and hurt it caused me and our kids was not the deciding factor for her. This time around she is not even willing to consider going to mc or anything like that. her family has decided that she is going to do what she is going to do and even though they dont like it they are going to support her. which means tough luck buddy, we arent trying to help her we just want to make sure she has primary custody of kids so we can see them and be there when she goes off looking for love. From what I have experienced, the guilt she felt from her family only lasted so long to help her ignore her own desire to want to be free to do what she wanted (2 years of my life thinking everything was good now). She is in love with being in love. I am grieved by this because she doesnt care about how this is messing with our boys. One of them has a stutter now, one acts up more and the other doesnt talk as much. I pray for her everyday that she will seek help for this tendency. If she doesnt I at least hope she has the decency to give me my boys so they dont have to see their mom move from one man to another ever few years. Funny how she tells me she doesnt need a man when all she does now is talk/text and go out other men. Go figure. Longstory short: If she doesn't want to go to mc then she probably doesn't want to work it out. Which means ...... I pray things work for the better in your situation. Pray and ask God for guidance and strength but stick to you values and beliefs. I think I compromised too long and too much.
Chrome Barracuda Posted June 2, 2010 Posted June 2, 2010 Dude im gonna be upfront with you the way i would tell my friends. Your wife is a ho... Lets look at these facts she has bi-sexual tendencies and she's married to you a man. Ok. next she doesnt want to be married, and wants to be single. Also instead of working things out with you, she'd rather be in a pole dancing class??? POLE DANCING!?!? C'mon dude, lets be real! It's not looking good. she isnt remorseful, She has no compassion for you, She is not in love with you and wants to be single? Why the F are you wasting your time. Cut her off, file for divorce and keep it moving! thank the good lord you didnt have kids with a woman like her. What's next babysitting while she's giving lap dances. c'mon man. Read between the lines. She's only 23 yrs old!!!! C'mon this woman doesnt deserve to be married! File now and protect yourself. Stop with all this love crap and realize what's gonna happen are you just gonna allow her to trample all over you because you wont stand up for yourself. Time for a 180. hard. It's over the sooner you realize that the better. Trust me she'll break your spirit if you continue to hang on. She will betray you it is inevitable... All im saying is to cut your losses and be by yourself, and then find someone else to replace the trifling chick.
Author Ravenwood Posted June 3, 2010 Author Posted June 3, 2010 Hey guys, thanks for the replys. Update: She's still at her parents. I ignored her texts all day at work and then went out for dinner and drinks with a few friends from the store I managed at. I called her dad to see if there was any headway made, but he hadn't seen her all day. I also drove by the pole dancing studio on my way to dinner (its on the way to the pub, I didn't go out of my way to check) and she did go to her class tonight (her car was there). She text me to say goodnight and that she loves me, but I ignored that as well. For what its worth, the advice im getting here pretty much mirrors what my mom and my friends are telling me (some have had divorces some haven't). Im getting over the inital shock and semi-making plans for after the divorce. Im still hopeful for the MC session, but im not putting all my eggs in that basket. Im thinking that if we separate, i don't want to stay in this house and town and I might rejoin the military, army or navy possibly, and just try for a fresh start. Im going out to see my sister tomorrow night and have dinner with her and her husband the night after. My parents are back on Monday so I'll have that support, as well as the support on these boards which is making me feel better and I thank all of you for that. Should I continue my no contact policy, what should I do if she decides to come home? I hope im making the right decisions.
Steadfast Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 Should I continue my no contact policy, what should I do if she decides to come home? I hope im making the right decisions. Everything in your last email was positive until the last line. What that says is you're staying away and/or not communicating to get a reaction from her. That isn't why you should go NC...that's for you. To heal, to allow you to see things for what they really are and to give you the chance to decide what you should do. Logically, it's the only thing you can do. By your own account, let's review. So far (that you know of) she's: 1) Involved with (an)other men/man 2) Has expressed a lack of romantic feelings and/or feels better 'alone'. 3) Moved out 4) Continues risque' pass times. Pole dancing? Is stripper's school next? At this point you're doing all you can. That is, dealing with the end of your marriage. She'll happily drag it out for a long as possible, keeping her options open at your expense. Just know that if you allow that, her respect and love for you will continue to fade. Doormats are not sexy. Do not agonize over the fact that you love her. You know, she knows. What or who does she love? Maybe it's another man or the 'idea' of someone else. Maybe it's herself. Whatever, it clearly isn't you. Why would you want that? What ultimate good comes from that? In the end, that isn't real love. How can she or anyone love you if you don't love yourself? Let her go. She must make the move, and it has to be decisive. All or nothing. If she wants to return, only allow it if she asks for forgiveness and wants to commit to you and your marriage 100%. You must see and believe that you and the marriage is the most important thing to her. Then you must decide if you want to try. If she is incapable of that, there is no hope. Get your affairs in order; financially and emotionally, to end the marriage. But know that what you're really doing is finishing what she started. Do not allow her to make you feel guilty. She'll only do that to keep you in limbo while she mulls over her options...or gets the offer she's seeking. In the meantime, be strong, be kind. Exercise, sleep. Take care of you.
You Go Girl Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 Everything in your last email was positive until the last line. What that says is you're staying away and/or not communicating to get a reaction from her. That isn't why you should go NC...that's for you. To heal, to allow you to see things for what they really are and to give you the chance to decide what you should do. Logically, it's the only thing you can do. By your own account, let's review. So far (that you know of) she's: 1) Involved with (an)other men/man 2) Has expressed a lack of romantic feelings and/or feels better 'alone'. 3) Moved out 4) Continues risque' pass times. Pole dancing? Is stripper's school next? At this point you're doing all you can. That is, dealing with the end of your marriage. She'll happily drag it out for a long as possible, keeping her options open at your expense. Just know that if you allow that, her respect and love for you will continue to fade. Doormats are not sexy. Do not agonize over the fact that you love her. You know, she knows. What or who does she love? Maybe it's another man or the 'idea' of someone else. Maybe it's herself. Whatever, it clearly isn't you. Why would you want that? What ultimate good comes from that? In the end, that isn't real love. How can she or anyone love you if you don't love yourself? Let her go. She must make the move, and it has to be decisive. All or nothing. If she wants to return, only allow it if she asks for forgiveness and wants to commit to you and your marriage 100%. You must see and believe that you and the marriage is the most important thing to her. Then you must decide if you want to try. If she is incapable of that, there is no hope. Get your affairs in order; financially and emotionally, to end the marriage. But know that what you're really doing is finishing what she started. Do not allow her to make you feel guilty. She'll only do that to keep you in limbo while she mulls over her options...or gets the offer she's seeking. In the meantime, be strong, be kind. Exercise, sleep. Take care of you. Excellent advice. Take it. I don't understand the lure to learn to pole dance. Really really cheap attention getter? Wanting to get on stage at a bar and have a bunch of strangers, men, jeer her on? Does she really need cheap attention that badly? Can it really be that important to her? I get angry thinking of the ways that some men objectify women. Then I hear about some women objectifying themselves...just makes me want to throw my hands up in the air. Everything I say or do to stop the objectifying of women and to make respect gains is contradicted by some other woman, negating my efforts.
seibert253 Posted June 4, 2010 Posted June 4, 2010 Hey guys, thanks for the replys. Update: She's still at her parents. I ignored her texts all day at work and then went out for dinner and drinks with a few friends from the store I managed at. I called her dad to see if there was any headway made, but he hadn't seen her all day. I also drove by the pole dancing studio on my way to dinner (its on the way to the pub, I didn't go out of my way to check) and she did go to her class tonight (her car was there). She text me to say goodnight and that she loves me, but I ignored that as well. For what its worth, the advice im getting here pretty much mirrors what my mom and my friends are telling me (some have had divorces some haven't). Im getting over the inital shock and semi-making plans for after the divorce. Im still hopeful for the MC session, but im not putting all my eggs in that basket. Im thinking that if we separate, i don't want to stay in this house and town and I might rejoin the military, army or navy possibly, and just try for a fresh start. Im going out to see my sister tomorrow night and have dinner with her and her husband the night after. My parents are back on Monday so I'll have that support, as well as the support on these boards which is making me feel better and I thank all of you for that. Should I continue my no contact policy, what should I do if she decides to come home? I hope im making the right decisions. YES, YES, YES. Read up on the 180 and start right now. You want her to come back, then give her distance. Start to plan on life without her, and let her see you're moving on, without her. If she loves you, she will come running back. But, only take her back on your conditions. If she doesn't come running back, then she's already gone. So far, your wife has been very selfish and immature IMO. Do you want to put up with this for another 40 years? Start planning on life without her. If she decides to come back, great. If she doesn't well that's OK too.
Author Ravenwood Posted June 4, 2010 Author Posted June 4, 2010 Hey guys. Update: Went to work and and ignored her texts all day, finished work, ran 2 miles and then drove to my sisters house for supper and to talk this out. Her advice was the same as you guys, leave her and get on with life, find someone that is a better fit for me. While i was there the phone rang twice and the call display said it was my wifes parents house. I was sure she broke down and was trying to contact me. When I left and got in my car, there were 3 missed messages on my phone, and two texts. One message was her dad telling me to call him back tomorrow, two were from her, in a panic telling me to call her back. The last one sounded really bad, she was crying and whimpering, so I called her back (probably a mistake) She said she drove by our apartment and my car wasn't there and she was really scared for me because we promised to text that we each got to work safe each day. I said that we also promised to love, honor, and care for each other, that she was the one that chose to leave, and that now she was finding out what it was like to be single. After that she turned into insta-bitch and said she was trying to get in touch with personal councilors, I shouldn't be like this to her. I asked her when she was coming back to the house and she said saturday, I asked why saturday? She said because it just sounded like a good day, so I told her that our first MC session was on Tuesday and then said goodbye, neither of us said I love you. I still want to give MC at least one shot, but i'm also pretty resigned to the idea of a divorce. I just don't know at this point. I didn't ask about her pole class on wednesday, but I might ask her dad about it tomorrow. Its obvious to me that she's still trying to piss me off by staying away until saturday, but im kind of getting used to being alone and im feeling better about it. Even if she does come back, I wont be sharing my bed with her for some time. I'll be moving our only valuble assets to my parents tomorrow, my guitar (I owned it before we married) and my guns (she isn't licenced to own guns, so she cant take them in a divorce anyway.)
She's_NotInLove_w/Me Posted June 4, 2010 Posted June 4, 2010 (edited) Slow down dude... I think you are missing the whole point of the 180, NC, etc, etc... It's not to simply give up and end the marriage as quickly and easily as possible. In my opinion, it's to get her to realize that the man she originally married is still there, and strong and stable. He is as self confident and collected as ever, and not some sobbing, weak, beta-male begging and waiting for her to return ASAP. But the ulitimate goal should be for her to find her way back to you and desire you as her one and only partner again (requiring her to maintain her fidelity with you of course). To me it seems you are losing sight of that. There are obviously many issues in play here, but I feel strongly the marriage still has a strong possibility of being saved if she can come around on her own... Edited June 4, 2010 by She's_NotInLove_w/Me
Author Ravenwood Posted June 5, 2010 Author Posted June 5, 2010 Update: Well guys, I called her on my lunch break at work. Her doctor has but her on medication because she's not sleeping or eating. I said I was coming over after work to talk. When I got there I told her that, although I missed her, I could feel my life moving on already and I felt good. I told her that she needed to be serious about our marriage if she wanted it to work, and that she needed to change the person she had become (alot of what I said is a blur now) I also said I wasn't afraid of a divorce and was prepared to move on, and that there was no way I could have the future mother of my children bumping up and down a stripper pole. She said she liked the person she had become and couldn't go back to the girl I fell in love with. She ended it. We cried, then started dividing up our money and things on paper. She still wants to see the MC on tues, if only for us to get pointed out to a trustworty family attorney. Her parents came home and she told them. They were shocked. I simply said that this wasn't what I wanted and that I hadn't come with a divorce in mind. Before I left my MIL grabbed my arm and said "expect her to change her mind when she finds out she cant stay here indefinately. Try not to get too down." I think i'll give my FIL a few days before I call him. He looked pretty pissed off. On the bright side it doesn't look like its gonna be messy. She doesn't seem to be too vindictive. She will just take what she had at the start of the marriage and then split the stuff we bought. I'll keep the big screen and entertainment center, she wants the laptop and freezer. Any money not spent on legal fees will get split down the center. I've spent the night feeling ok, then rage, then sadness, then release, then fear. I haven't cried since I left her parents house though. It will be tough, but not the toughest thing i've ever done. It sure is painful though.
Gunny376 Posted June 5, 2010 Posted June 5, 2010 Your not comprehending her thinking ~ simply because your not a woman. Men and women's minds are literally wired differently. They perceive reality differently. Men think logically ~ while most women tend to think emotionally ~ which is not to say that women cannot and do not think logically and without emotion. There are many women that well to put it bluntly? Are "Attention Whores" ~ which is not to say they are sexually nor physically engaged as such although some are ~ its just that they crave and need the attention of men ~ even women (not necessarily in a physical nor sexual sense ~ but in the sense of being the center of attraction) Its an insecurity complex of sorts? Think about it? A lot of girls get a lot of attention when they're young, and in middle school, high school? But a lot of that drops off after high school or college. They're no longer the "Stars of the Bars" ~ that effects their self image? Self perception and such. Even more so as they age. Your best bet is to let it go! She's not going to "get it" until she gets some help with her self image of who and what she is a person, as an individual. That the worth of her is much more and greater than being a HB10 (Hot Babe X 10) from back in the day and accepts that she's a human being that is much more than the sum total of just being a woman?
Steadfast Posted June 5, 2010 Posted June 5, 2010 Great stuff Gunny. Well said. From this point on Raven, let her be. Except for this 'MC' session coming up, don't talk about your relationship. Also, if I may suggest, try to resist the urge to put on a front...that is to say, it is a good thing that you're not wallowing around in self-pity, but there is nothing wrong with simply being yourself and projecting those emotions. You seem pretty level headed. During the session, listen closely for clues on where she is. The 'I've changed' line is way more about who she loves and considers important than any real personality change or outlook. It took me a long time to figure that out. Like Gunny said, these are decisions based on emotions. Just remember the old sage; if she loved you, she'd want to be with you. Repeat that to yourself enough times and you'll begin to see the light. Rest, sleep, eat and exercise. This is a hard time so be kind to yourself.
Gunny376 Posted June 5, 2010 Posted June 5, 2010 I kid you not, I know of a woman that was married for forty years, had three sons, and who could not accept in her fifties and sxities that she was no longer the HB10 she had been in her teens and twenties and was out scrogging any and everything that she could find to sleep with. Its called "Women's Pyschology" There's a lot of horrid things that go with being a woman, being molested as a child, as a young girl, raped, sexually molested ~ the list is endless. By brothers, uncles, fathers, step-fathers, family friends? Then there's a lot of insecurity ~ brought on by the media, TV commercials, MTW as to what its like to be a "true" woman. To add on top of that? Other girls and women can be very cruel to one other.
You Go Girl Posted June 5, 2010 Posted June 5, 2010 Thank the gods I'm here! A woman to tell you that yes, we make decisions based on emotion. Well that is the LOGICAL thing to do. What else would you base your life decisions on? Gunny, I don't care for it when you speak of women making decisions based on emotion as if they are lesser intelligent decisions than the so-called decisions men make based on logic. There's no such thing. ALL relationship decisions are based on emotion, the big decisions that is. I suppose there are a few people out there who make them based on some 'life plan' they have for themselves, and just look for a partner to fit into that life plan. That's cold, heartless, selfish, and those people deserve to be left. Still, said 'logical' life decisions are again based on emotion, the emotion of what a person wants out of their life. And men aren't so logical. Take a look around LS. They're as emotional as women are. Now back to the original poster. Your wife is having a MLC early. The only way to have any hope whatsoever is to incorporate her new self-image into the marriage. This may be impossible to do. Secondly, that her mother said that she will come back home with her tail between her legs when she hasn't somewhere else to live, is no reason to restart a marriage. That is defeat for her, and not going to be running back to you, but be crawling back to a place to live. I hope she has other options, if only because the two of you need to make the right decision here, not one based on a roof over her head-any roof. I can tell you one thing for sure. This woman feels she has no power in her life. That stupid pole dancing could lead her to feel more self-esteem and power is very pathetic. She's obviously gone quite wrong as to how to build self-respect and confidence. And her mother is obviously part of her self-esteem problem.
Gunny376 Posted June 5, 2010 Posted June 5, 2010 I disagree. It why the male needs the female and the female needs to the male. The whole ying and yang that need not be found exclusively in either the male nor female persona. There are no absolutes. As near as I can telll there are some sixteen to eighteen different permutations of sexual/gender role orientations. Which means there are 1X2X3X4X5X7X8X9X10X11X12X13X14X15X16X17X18 = millions if not billions of different female/male gender and sexual orientaions? That's simple mathematics. Even cutting that in half still results in millions of possible sexual/gender combinations. Girls likes girls, girl likes boys and girls, boy likes boys, boy likes girls and boys.
Author Ravenwood Posted June 6, 2010 Author Posted June 6, 2010 Update: Today was really tough. Work was really tough, I made alot of stupid mistakes and almost hacked myself a couple times cause I wasn't paying attention. My boss, who went through a VERY nasty divorce was very understanding, but I think his advice made me feel worse, kinda panicy, you know? She text me asking about the weather, but I knew she was feeling the sameway I was and was just using weather as a way to get a response. I just told her work was tough and she said hers was the same way. I asked her if she was making the right decision, she said part of her said yes and part said no. I was feeling very alone right then, so I just texted back that I couldn't talk about this anymore. I don't want to torture myself. I don't want her back. I wasn't happy in my marriage, or at least the last year and a half of it, but I was happy being married and having someone. I forced myself to run my usual 2 miles and came out feeling 10 times better, but I really didn't want to go back to our empty apartment. I forced myself to go back just to prove I could. I called my mom who was getting on the plane to come home. As soon as I said hi I broke down and had the first good sob since we ended it with my mom on the phone. Man, I felt like a pansy. A 26 year old man crying to his mommy, it really was pathetic. I have decided to stay the night here, once again to prove that I can. I am still making plans for the future, but I am really scared. I really don't want to go back to single life and am fearful of being alone forever, but I know that if she comes back I will be doing all this again sometime in the future. If I don't do it now, I might be doing it when im 36 or 46 and then I won't be able to do the things I want to do with my life. I still don't know if I want to keep this apartment, either. A big fear is just finding friends. For the three years I was married, my job and my wife took all my energy, I didn't maintain my friendships and didn't make any new ones, so now I really don't have any. That is why I am leaning towards the military, to get out, make new friends and get out of this area where there is just my family and lots of painful memories that are everywhere, a pub we used to go to, a park bench we cuddled on, even a road sign that we would pass when we were going somewhere. I don't want to make any decisions for a while, but I also don't like all this pain. Sorry for the depressing post. After my cry I did feel alot better though. Im looking foreward to seeing my mom tomorrow, Im sure that having her son's marriage fall apart while she was on vacation hasn't been easy for her. Wow, I feel better after getting all that out. Im going through alot of kleenex here though.
Author Ravenwood Posted June 6, 2010 Author Posted June 6, 2010 Gunny, Steadfast, great advice, I think im gonna take it and worry about myself now. You Go Girl, I am not considering restarting my marriage if her parents turn her out. I want my wife back, but not the person she has become. I forgave her for the emotional affair, but I don't think I could have her back in my home. I did have her give me her key when I was with her yesterday (God that was hard) and asked her not to come back for her things unless I was there. You are bang-on about her self esteem. I do think this was why the pole class was so important to her and why she clings to it, even at the expense of her marriage. And yes, her mother plays a HUGE role in her problems. I also think I took some comfort on her low self-esteem because it made her dependant on me, or so it seemed. It made me feel like she could never leave. As you can see, I aparrently have my own self-esteem issues to work on as well. One of my big fears for her is that because of her variety of issues, combined with this new feeling of independance she says she has, she may make decisions that will damage her life irrepairably. I almost called her dad today and asked him to make sure he protects her, since he is the man of her house now. I still love her, I know the shy and emotional girl that I fell in love with and married is still in there because I see it from time to time, even if I dislike the person she has become. I don't want to see any harm come to her. I know there is nothing I can do about it now and that is unsettling. She told me she was trying to get some Individual counceling yesterday and I really, really hope she does. Thanks for being here guys, this is really scary and its nice to talk to people who have faced these problems, either currently or before, and moved on with their lives.
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