Older women

[You Go Girl]

It seems Little Tiger defines a real person not through their body but by their heart, soul, mind and intellect. And she goes on to believe that any decent man will be attracted to your body because of YOU, i.e. your heart, soul, mind & intellect. Keep believing that if it works for you. But I'm a firm believer that to other people than ourselves, our looks is part and parcel of YOU; when they look at you. Your looks is as real to them as your character. That's why people treat you better after you've lost weight: to them, YOU have changed even though you yourself feel pretty much the same as before.

 

This doesn't make sense...

do you disagree that if you love someone, their body is also attractive?

 

Strangers, acquaintances, measure us up by looks. But those very close to us? Isn't it the entire package?

 

Looks are real, indeed. As real as character? Well the first, we were given, without any effort from us--our looks. We can't control that, be it good or bad, for the most part. Weight loss is one thing we can control. But not the color of our eyes, etc.

So character is perhaps more of an assessment of who we really are, because it is the part we created.

We don't get credit for good looks. It's not something we made any effort whatsoever for. We do get credit for keeping weight in balance, for taking showers, for going to the dentist and keeping our breath fresh enough others can speak to us without gagging.

I don't understand what you are getting at.

[xxoo]

It seems Little Tiger defines a real person not through their body but by their heart, soul, mind and intellect. And she goes on to believe that any decent man will be attracted to your body because of YOU, i.e. your heart, soul, mind & intellect. Keep believing that if it works for you.

 

Not that any decent man will be attracted to your body (lots of decent men are not in love with me, lol), but that the person who truly loves you will love your body because it is yours. I believe that is true for both me and my H. I look at my grandparents, married 60+ years, or my parents, each of their bodies altered by cancer treatments, and know that is true for them. Love can grow even as beauty fades.

 

But I'm a firm believer that to other people than ourselves, our looks is part and parcel of YOU; when they look at you. Your looks is as real to them as your character. That's why people treat you better after you've lost weight: to them, YOU have changed even though you yourself feel pretty much the same as before.

 

I wonder if the bolded is true? Or, do people who have undergone a big weight loss feel that it involved fundamental change in attitude, outlook, and behavior?

[just_some_guy]

I think it is utterly ridiculous to expect a man or woman not to notice or even enjoy looking at attractive people of the opposite sex.

 

That's not the same as being a lecherous, lustful ogler. Nor is it the same as using others to critique his/her partner for not being something other than what they are.

 

To have that expectation is either unrealistic or controlling to the point of denying one's partner his/her own basic human nature.

[LittleTiger]

I think it is utterly ridiculous to expect a man or woman not to notice or even enjoy looking at attractive people of the opposite sex.

 

Of course it's ridiculous!

 

Nobody has suggested that we don't all look at attractive people (of both sexes actually!) - just that there's a difference between looking and looking with intent.

[LittleTiger]

It seems Little Tiger defines a real person not through their body but by their heart, soul, mind and intellect. And she goes on to believe that any decent man will be attracted to your body because of YOU, i.e. your heart, soul, mind & intellect. Keep believing that if it works for you. But I'm a firm believer that to other people than ourselves, our looks is part and parcel of YOU; when they look at you. Your looks is as real to them as your character. That's why people treat you better after you've lost weight: to them, YOU have changed even though you yourself feel pretty much the same as before.

 

Yes, of course your body is part and parcel of who you are but our bodies do not define us and their size and shape should not matter to the people who love us - or indeed to anybody else! Obviously the physical body plays a part in sexual attraction but nowhere near as big a part as you might expect. Physical perfection only exists in teenagers or twenty-somethings. The rest of us are on a sliding scale and yet, somehow most of us still manage to find sexual partners, even in our 40s and beyond.

 

If you treat people better when they are better looking, BentSpine, then I presume your friends are all attractive looking people? I'm sure you'd like me enormously then because apparently I'm very attractive and I look 10 years younger than my 45 years.

 

So have you experienced the weight loss/gain yourself? Interesting comment to make if you haven't. I put on a lot of weight when I became ill some years ago and nobody treated me any differently - not my friends, not my family and not my husband, not even strangers. I didn't notice any change since I lost it again either. Maybe that's because I also have a great personality and that's what other people care about most.

[BentSpine]

do you disagree that if you love someone, their body is also attractive?

I do. It's very possible to care about someone while at the same time not be attracted to their body..

 

Strangers, acquaintances, measure us up by looks. But those very close to us? Isn't it the entire package?

It's a package alright that inevitably includes looks.

[BentSpine]

but that the person who truly loves you will love your body because it is yours.

*sigh* No, you probably won't be able to eat Oreos all day and still be attractive to your partner. Looks matters.

 

Or, do people who have undergone a big weight loss feel that it involved fundamental change in attitude, outlook, and behavior?

Could be i many cases, but in my experience weight loss alone is enough.

[califnan]

If somehow a woman falls in love with a man who has shown all of the niceties incl communication, consideration, sweetness, attentiveness, (and yes, handsome) - he can seem beautiful to her..

 

But if she skims through pof or match.com and wanders through the pictures of men her age with facial hair, dressed casually, sprawled out sitting .. and with imaginary signs across them saying: Please adopt me ... And they don't even want to COMMUNICATE!!!! by email ... forget it ..

[BentSpine]

Yes, of course your body is part and parcel of who you are but our bodies do not define us and their size and shape should not matter to the people who love us

If you refer to your dog then I'll agree with you. But for people, the looks of their partner matters. Otherwise they would have picked first man or woman (gender is looks) nearby if all they wanted was companionship.

 

I'm sure you'd like me enormously then because apparently I'm very attractive and I look 10 years younger than my 45 years.

Congratulations on being able to attact the opposite sex. We all have our own view of what we find attractive in the oppositve sex and that differs a great deal between individuals. I would probably think that you have your most beautiful years still ahead of you.

So have you experienced the weight loss/gain yourself?

Yes.

I put on a lot of weight when I became ill some years ago and nobody treated me any differently - not my friends, not my family and not my husband, not even strangers.

That's the preferable way. You have a different experience than me so it's understandable that that influences your views.

[LittleTiger]

If you refer to your dog then I'll agree with you. But for people, the looks of their partner matters. Otherwise they would have picked first man or woman (gender is looks) nearby if all they wanted was companionship.

 

No idea what you mean by the 'dog' comment . I don't think dogs choose their mates based on personality!

 

The first man or woman we come across does not usually make a good companion - not because of looks, but because of personality, values, interests, education etc. When we look for a life partner, we are looking for a good match which involves compatibility in all of these things. Have you not seen how dating sites are set up? Yes, we may be attracted by looks initially, but once we love our partner, even if their looks fade, we usually continue to be attracted - because of chemisty - which, whether you agree or not, has very little to do with looks.

 

Congratulations on being able to attact the opposite sex. We all have our own view of what we find attractive in the oppositve sex and that differs a great deal between individuals. I would probably think that you have your most beautiful years still ahead of you.

 

My comment about my attractiveness was tongue in cheek , but thanks for the compliment (I think?)

 

That's the preferable way. You have a different experience than me so it's understandable that that influences your views.

 

So you admit that people accepting you for who you are inside is 'preferable' to being judged by your physical appearance - interesting!

Is it not possible that, in your case, as xxoo suggested, you became more confident and outgoing after your weightloss and that is actually what made you more attractive to others?

 

(Apologies to the OP, I think this might now be considered a threadjack )

[just_some_guy]

Yes, of course your body is part and parcel of who you are but our bodies do not define us and their size and shape should not matter to the people who love us - or indeed to anybody else! O

 

Actually, the truth is, we define our bodies.

 

Someone who is woefully obese, or slovenly, or covered with tattoos, or too much makeup, or is lean and in shape, kind of average, tan, pasty, whatever, it is a clue to what is inside.

 

Our bodies are the walking, talking, outward manifestation of what we are inside. It is true, right down to the way we hold ourselves in conversation or walking down the street.

 

Let's face it, if someone is severely obese, they have problems on the inside. Period. Same if they have anorexia, use drugs, do not practice proper hygiene, neglect their teeth. I would even say that the man/woman who is covered with tattoos and piercings is blaring out to the world, "I HAVE A PROBLEM!!!!"

 

The exceptions are the ones with birth defects, the survivors of disfigurement, accident, burns, diseases, etc, that are truly beyond their control. Or the ravages of time and aging, that we all experience that are just part of the human condition.

 

Yes, appearance matters. Yes, it is possible to love someone dearly and LOSE sexual attraction because he/she has become morbidly obese, or otherwise abused or neglected his/her body or health.

 

If your spouse's weight keeps climbing and is well on the way to 400lbs, and their health is in danger and you LOVE that person but you can't imagine sleeping with him/her or having sex ever again, how can our bodies not matter?

[xxoo]

*sigh* No, you probably won't be able to eat Oreos all day and still be attractive to your partner. Looks matters.

 

The point is, I wouldn't BE the same person if I ate Oreos all day. My H married an active, fun woman--and that is more important (to him, and to me) than the size I wear.

[Samantha0905]

At 48, I haven't noticed a restricted age range as to those who flirt unless the age gets really young -- like early 20s. From about mid-20s through 60s flirts with me. Well, hell -- even 70s and 80s at my gym. I love them! If I were single and had to choose a person, I think I would have some age parameters. That's easy to say though until you meet someone that doesn't fall into those parameters. My XAP was 14 years younger and yes -- when I thought it out into "a future" it was troublesome (for me.) When I hit 60, he would be 46. That's quite a difference, especially given how many men think. Sorry if that was sexist-- but it's the truth.

 

It's hard to put a # on what I would consider acceptable to date as a single person. Definitely not 20s. Probably not 60s. Not sure about that though -- or where the cut off would be. It's about people and connecting -- friendship, attraction, etc.

[LittleTiger]

Actually, the truth is, we define our bodies.

 

Absolutely agree on this one.

 

This is why a lot of couples look so similar. Sporty, active men will usually end up with sporty, active women, men who enjoy a daily McD and never do anything more energetic than drinking beer or watching TV will end up with a woman the same. It's about values not looks.

 

If you both start off as the former and one of you ends up as the latter, the relationship doesn't stand a chance. That person has changed - inside as well as outside. If we're talking about a weight gain of 200 to 300 pounds then, yes, that person has a serious problem, mentally and physically and very few healthy people would be attracted to them.

 

You could argue that a guy who is a 2 in the looks department will never manage to attract a woman who is a 10 and, based on looks alone, that may be true BUT look at a guy like Woodie Allen. He had hot women on his arm most of his life. Why? Because, to them at least, he was (and probably still is) a very funny man, and of course he doubtless has lots of money - but again, it's about values not looks.

 

Of course this sort of a scenario is a lot less likely in the opposite way around because men definitely seem to be more hung up on looks - hence this (threadjack) discussion! This raises another question too. Do a lot of men believe they are defined by their partner's looks and therefore need to get the best looking woman they can?

 

Now, in a slightly feeble attempt to bring this discussion back on topic, I would stick my neck out here and say that from the 'on topic' replies to this thread, as well as the OPs other thread about the 19 year old hotties, the consenus seems to be that for men in their 40s and upwards, 19 year olds are too young and mature women can be very attractive. Lets face it, if looks were the priority ALL men would be after women under 30 - and that, quite clearly, isn't the case.

 

My 44 year old partner thinks my 72 year old Mum is very attractive and I (45) think his 68 year old Dad is very attractive. (Note also that I am 9 months older than my man and he thinks I'm hot )

[LittleTiger]

The point is, I wouldn't BE the same person if I ate Oreos all day. My H married an active, fun woman--and that is more important (to him, and to me) than the size I wear.

 

My point exactly! (In far less words )

[BentSpine]

No idea what you mean by the 'dog' comment

A dog doesn't care about if we have a spare tyre or not. Human partners most often do.

Yes, we may be attracted by looks initially, but once we love our partner, even if their looks fade, we usually continue to be attracted - because of chemisty - which, whether you agree or not, has very little to do with looks.

Doesn't work that way. We continue to be physically attracted to someone because they resemble the person we were physically attacted to back in time. But if one's weight changes, you make a highly significant change to your looks. Far bigger change than graying hair and crow's feet. This is good news for women and men as they grow older: you'll still be attractive to your partner if you stay very close to your old weight. Yes, there are men who won't complain when their woman gains weight. Sometimes their inner template appreciates the new woman more but likely the men are afraid of the attention their woman would recieve if her body is more stunning.

I agree it's possible to get used to someone's looks to some extent over time. Someone who looked average at first glance may become very attractive but probably not stunningly beautiful. But attractive is good enough when coupled with great mental connection.

Chemistry to me is nothing more mysterious than instant physical attraction.

So you admit that people accepting you for who you are inside is 'preferable' to being judged by your physical appearance - interesting!

I meant it's preferable that you in particular didn't feel less appreciated when larger.

Is it not possible that, in your case, as xxoo suggested, you became more confident and outgoing after your weightloss and that is actually what made you more attractive to others?

No, it's not possible in this case.

 

 

I don't know the preferences of 40+ year old men but I do know this:

It's evolutionary impossible for the majority of men to be attracted to infertile women. The human species wouldn't have propagated into today if the situation was any other way. I belong to the minority.

 

On topic: I find many older women beautiful. All of my partners except one has been many years older.

[LittleTiger]

I don't know the preferences of 40+ year old men but I do know this:

It's evolutionary impossible for the majority of men to be attracted to infertile women. The human species wouldn't have propagated into today if the situation was any other way. I belong to the minority.

 

Two things here:

 

1. This first sentance is just silly! It is clearly NOT impossible for men to be attracted to infertile women.

 

Many young and beautiful women are infertile for a variety of reasons. If attraction was just about fertility men would be able to 'sniff' out these women somehow and they'd all be single for life!!!

 

There are also many post-menopausal women who are considerably more attractive than women a lot younger. If a woman has looked after herself, still has reasonable figure (not easy after the menopause but possible with a bit of work) and 'shines' from the inside, men are still drawn to her and, in some cases, you can't actually tell if they have been through the menopause or not.

 

Oh, and what about the transexuals that look exactly like women - many men have been fooled by this one.

 

Then, of course, there are also the men who are married to post-menopausal women who's shape has changed considerably since their wedding day, but they still love and desire them. Yes, they really do exist.

 

2. Your logic in this argument is skewed. What you mean is - The human species wouldn't have propogated into today if men were not attracted to fertile women. As long as men are attracted to fertile women, it makes no difference in evolutionary terms whether men are attracted to infertile women or not!

[You Go Girl]

I'd pick an average or below average looking male with a great personality over a "10" without a great personality anyday of the week.

I know where my priorities are.

Give me a guy who can kiss. A guy who can hold his own in a debate. A guy who can see all the different sides of issues, and therefore, falls in the middle or undecided. Somebody with lust for--LIFE. Give me a thinker. Thinkers are usually good kissers, and good lovers too.

A very good looking guy with an ego to match is an instant turn-off.

I like a man with substance. Who knows current events and his head isn't buried in the sand. Who knows things! I don't like someone ignorant in too many areas. Somebody who is atop things, has it together.

No whiners. eww.

Edited June 4, 2010 by You Go Girl

[flc]

I'm 52 been divorced for about 2.5 years. My ex was a couple of years older than me. When I divorced I dated the spectrum from 26-53. In the end I found that while women generally look better in their younger years there are a lot of women who are damn sexy at 50 as well. More importantly is the fact that I want to be with a women who has similar life experiences who has raised her kids and sees the world in the same way I do. That is why I am with a women who is 50.

 

What is refreshing to me is that I am dating a women who wants to be healthy and sexy who appreciates and understands that physical beauty is important. She will point out beautiful women and remark how nice their bodies are, she is not intimidated by younger women and has strong self confidence. Her view is I can look all I want, but nothing else.

[janie423]

 

 

I don't know the preferences of 40+ year old men but I do know this:

It's evolutionary impossible for the majority of men to be attracted to infertile women. The human species wouldn't have propagated into today if the situation was any other way. I belong to the minority.

 

On topic: I find many older women beautiful. All of my partners except one has been many years older.

 

You make it sound like a admission of a crime . True, the ultimate goal of sex from a biological standpoint is reproduction, but men do not have that goal in mind while pursuing females, otherwise casual sex would never occur. Usually, the only way to detect infertility is by trial. Kind of like testing side effects of a pharmaceutical agent: you don't know how each patient will react until the drug is administered. And only then will you know if it is toxic to humans. A man discovers that his wife is infertile only through having sex; there is no way to detect it physiologically. So it is quite possible to be attracted to an infertile woman, including post-menopausal women.

 

Give yourself a break! You are normal.

 

Using an animal model, female wolves will become naturally infertile when an area wolf population reaches unsustainable levels. But the male wolves continue to have sex with them (or at least mount them!).

Edited June 4, 2010 by janie423

[BentSpine]

Let me clarify: It's evolutionary impossible for the majority of men to have a Genetic Preference Template that make them exclusively go for infertile women.

 

If it's more likely that a child of a younger woman reaches reproductive age (easier childbirth) than a child by a older but still fertile woman, then the genes that make men only go for younger women will, with time, spread throughout the vast population of men.

 

What I'm trying to convey here is that there is evolutionary bias why most men, but not all men, will go for younger women.

[soserious1]

Let me clarify: It's evolutionary impossible for the majority of men to have a Genetic Preference Template that make them exclusively go for infertile women.

 

If it's more likely that a child of a younger woman reaches reproductive age (easier childbirth) than a child by a older but still fertile woman, then the genes that make men only go for younger women will, with time, spread throughout the vast population of men.

 

What I'm trying to convey here is that there is evolutionary bias why most men, but not all men, will go for younger women.

 

I understand better than most about the natural forces that are hard wired into men causing them to prefer younger women. I do wish though that Mother Nature would also see to it that old gals like me die a whole lot sooner. There's nothing worse than the thought that you're

going to have to live another 30 yrs or so with a husband who makes his preferences for younger woman clear along with his distaste for your aging face and body.

[LittleTiger]

There's nothing worse than the thought that you're going to have to live another 30 yrs or so with a husband who makes his preferences for younger woman clear along with his distaste for your aging face and body.

 

I would change your husband if I were you.

[soserious1]

I would change your husband if I were you.

 

No worries, I'm divorced now, dutifully paying him alimony too.. shoveling out money is one thing we old wrinkled broads are good for:)

[janie423]

Let me clarify: It's evolutionary impossible for the majority of men to have a Genetic Preference Template that make them exclusively go for infertile women.

 

If it's more likely that a child of a younger woman reaches reproductive age (easier childbirth) than a child by a older but still fertile woman, then the genes that make men only go for younger women will, with time, spread throughout the vast population of men.

 

What I'm trying to convey here is that there is evolutionary bias why most men, but not all men, will go for younger women.

 

I just have to disagree with parts of this. It may be that many men prefer younger women, but those women aren't necessarily fertile (e.g., 60 year olds who prefer 50 year olds.) There is a social component to this. Men may feel that a younger woman looks up to them, and even an average women with a partner 10 years older will look good next to him.

 

So quite possibly, a 20 year old man could prefer women 10 years older than him and she could still reproduce. I really think the "evolutionary" theory is way too simplified. In our culture women are not judged by their accomplishments, they are judged by their looks, and if they look as good as Demi Moore, evolution be damned.