Same ol' same ol'??

[2sure]

Thanks Chris.

 

But there's 2 things I cannot get my head around no matter how hard I try.

 

1. If his wife means anything at all to him, how can he be happy to continue cheating on her?

 

2. If I mean anything at all to him, how can he cut contact for a week knowing it would devastate me?

 

I can look past anything and everything else. But not those. And they're going round and round in my head. I'm so confused.

 

He wants both and there is not one thing confusing about that.

 

He is a drama queen cry baby bit*h, and thats not hard to see clearly either.

 

You are not competing with his wife in all of his "cant decide" crap. You and his wife are simply jockeying between 2nd and 3rd.

 

You both mean something to him, just not as much as himself.

[Silly_Girl]

Thanks Chris.

 

But there's 2 things I cannot get my head around no matter how hard I try.

 

1. If his wife means anything at all to him, how can he be happy to continue cheating on her?

 

2. If I mean anything at all to him, how can he cut contact for a week knowing it would devastate me?

 

I can look past anything and everything else. But not those. And they're going round and round in my head. I'm so confused.

 

He wants both and there is not one thing confusing about that.

 

He is a drama queen cry baby bit*h, and thats not hard to see clearly either.

 

You are not competing with his wife in all of his "cant decide" crap. You and his wife are simply jockeying between 2nd and 3rd.

 

You both mean something to him, just not as much as himself.

 

Wow, concise. Bloody good point too, thanks. I hate this!!! I know I have to learn this stuff, but oooh it's harsh!

[MorningCoffee]

You are not competing with his wife in all of his "cant decide" crap. You and his wife are simply jockeying between 2nd and 3rd.

 

Awesome conception of the reality of an A with an AP who is just basically self-absorbed.

[Silly_Girl]

Made a mistake... I'd told him to stay away all the while he's not single, he then replied saying 'I'll write more' and obviously couldn't be bothered. That riled me so I emailed a slightly sarky comment about the non-email, followed by something like 'You've made it clear you're not leaving your marriage, so we have nothing more to say. I'm not up for having just the crumbs of someone else's relationship. Go back and be [wife]'s husband, go back and have the life you had before we met. Leave me alone'.

 

I feel better that this draws a line under it. I had said it in the email the day before, but obviously it didn't sink in. This made it abundantly clear and I'm no longer wondering if I'm going to get an email or what it might say etc etc. It's over.

 

I even slept 6 whole hours last night so I must be feeling better, although I feel totally rubbish and heartbroken.

[Fieldsofgold]

((((((hugs)))))) I'm glad you slept some. I'm glad you emailed him and drew your line. If he's like my xMM, he will ignore yoir line and carry on as though you never said it. I wrote several emails spelling things out clearly. While he "replied," he didn't comment on what I said, instead going on about how he was feeling/being affected. This went on for a while. Only when I quit replying, did he start paying attention to what I had previously said. He even sent me an email the other day, telling me that he hears loud and clear what I'm not saying. I have found that the only thing that drives my message home is no contact.

 

I think that you are on the right path. You deserve way more than crumbs from a spineless, weasley little man. Stand strong!

[Silly_Girl]

Feeling quite cross with myself (see below*). Had an important meeting today and at one point I went half an hour without thinking about him!!

 

And the whole re-remembering process has started. Like when he didn't call though I'd asked him to, because he was 'busy', yet when he 'needed to hear MY voice', he rang. And now seeing it in the context of his marriage, and me being outside of that, instead of (as he'd led me/allowed me to believe) that we were the primary relationship and he was constantly yearning for me and couldn't wait to see me and didn't want to do any of the husband/house things that he had to do, always just wanted to be with me, thinking of me etc etc. Yeah, right.

 

*So why the hell am I wishing so hard that he'd email me? Well, I am wishing that, if I'm honest. Wishing he'd email and say 'It's all okay, I've done x, y, z and we're going to be fine'. Tears prick at my eyes and I read our emails of the last couple of days over and over and it's not healthy.

 

But another part of me is sort of enjoying that now he has to deal with the relationship he bemoaned in the first place. When we were first chatting online I made it clear I never wanted to meet him, I told him about men I was interested in, it was a strong friendship and I *believe* we were quite honest as none of what we talked about was leading to a relationship or a date. And he didn't have a lot going on in his little life.

 

Since me he's had a whole stack of new experiences and felt and enjoyed things he never knew possible. So if he thought he was unfulfilled back then, boy is he in for a shock. Now he knows what's 'out there', and he's stuck with his old life.... it's going to be horrible. And I hope it is. I hope it stings like crazy.

 

While I was on the scene he was extra nice to his wife, because he felt guilty. He went along with all her plans on his 'home' weekends (whilst texting me), because that was how he would get her blessing on him going away (to mine) the next weekend. He was in better spirits because we would flirt and joke, he would tell me his work issues and we'd compare notes and we soon found that it helped, professionally, to do that, whereas she works at home and has never had a job like his/mine. None of that now. The sex, we were perfectly matched and it just seemed to get better and better and contrast that to a zero sex life.... I just think that it was easy to have me there indefinitely (I had accepted his delays and apologies before) and feel loyal to his wife who is desperate not to be left alone. But it being just him and her...? He's going to find it so difficult and I'm sort of getting off on that thought. It's helping me keep going. Don't know how long it will last, and I feel pretty mean, but enjoying the thought of him being miserable and lonely really cheers me up.

 

And I know half the forum will say 'He lied, he's loving his marriage, he's blah blah blah', but I'm not there yet :-)

[jthorne]

I don't know if he's loving his marriage, but I do know he has no intentions of leaving it. So... what else is there for him to say to you? What else is there for you to say to him? You've told him to stay away. Now is the time to start NC in earnest.

 

Try to stay busy. Stop looking at your phone every few minutes for a text, stop checking your email so often for an email. Better yet, put a rule on your email to send anything from his address to trash- that way, you'll never see emails if or when he sends them.

 

2sure is right. He wants both. For whatever reason, he wants both.

It's time to make it clear that he can't have both. You deserve to be first.

[Silly_Girl]

I guess I am struggling because I don't want him whilst he's married. But I DO want him.

 

I know I could never have anything to do with him whilst it's cheating. I used to get really upset about that side of it, but it was always only 2 or 3 or 4 weeks more (mug!) so I hung in there.

 

And he's said he doesn't think he wants to leave his wife, so you are absolutely right. There's nothing to be said. But doesn't stop me wanting to turn up on my doorstep minus wedding ring and baggage.

[jthorne]

I guess I am struggling because I don't want him whilst he's married. But I DO want him.

 

I know I could never have anything to do with him whilst it's cheating. I used to get really upset about that side of it, but it was always only 2 or 3 or 4 weeks more (mug!) so I hung in there.

 

And he's said he doesn't think he wants to leave his wife, so you are absolutely right. There's nothing to be said. But doesn't stop me wanting to turn up on my doorstep minus wedding ring and baggage.

Well, then I think you're going to have to start looking elsewhere, my dear. Because having him means accepting his marriage. That's all he has to offer. As soon as you realize that that's all there is, and realize that you demand more, then you can start moving on.

[Silly_Girl]

My head knows that, which is why I am not contacting him (and it's really REALLY difficult) but that doesn't mean I don't cry and wish things were different.

 

I simply will not accept him as a married man. I know that, I feel it so strongly, through to my core. But I'm still mourning whatever it was it felt like we had. Wish I wasn't.

[jthorne]

My head knows that, which is why I am not contacting him (and it's really REALLY difficult) but that doesn't mean I don't cry and wish things were different.

 

I simply will not accept him as a married man. I know that, I feel it so strongly, through to my core. But I'm still mourning whatever it was it felt like we had. Wish I wasn't.

That takes time. It's perfectly normal to mourn a loss. Just make sure you don't let yourself wallow in it. I think you are smart enough not to do that. Try to do things that keep your mind off of him. And if you feel like contacting him, post it here instead.

[Silly_Girl]

So upset. Sobbing and sobbing. Just found online that the room he had arranged to move in to is now advertised again. It's the area and the landlord's name he told me.

 

Don't know why I hoped or cared he may still move out, when it was so bloody obvious. It got re-advertised last night.

 

It's like the initial hurt all over again. He couldn't do it. He DID have the room sorted, but he bottled it at the last hurdle. Am wondering if I could have done things differently and all that jazz, if we could have just got to that stage maybe it wouldn't have ended like this. But I know it's not relevant and it wasn't me.

 

Feel so sad. Thought that if he moved out and got some space from both of us it might make all the difference. My heart and head aren't working in tandem at the moment. Am so angry.

 

Tuesday evening he sent me an email that still spoke of him moving out. The next day (yesterday) he cancels the room and ALSO emails to say he loves me.

 

So angry angry angry angry angry. And soaked with tears.

 

How do I stop hurting?????? How do I stop wishing he'd contact me? It's just time, isn't it? I feel like I've been kicked in the gut a thousand times. What a coward. I can't believe he would choose that life over us.

 

I can't believe we can go from all to nothing in ten days. God, the last day we spent together was just so amazing, and he was so sure about us. Well, clearly not. I want to be so nasty to him. I want him to hurt like he's hurt me.

[ladydesigner]

So upset. Sobbing and sobbing. Just found online that the room he had arranged to move in to is now advertised again. It's the area and the landlord's name he told me.

 

Don't know why I hoped or cared he may still move out, when it was so bloody obvious. It got re-advertised last night.

 

It's like the initial hurt all over again. He couldn't do it. He DID have the room sorted, but he bottled it at the last hurdle. Am wondering if I could have done things differently and all that jazz, if we could have just got to that stage maybe it wouldn't have ended like this. But I know it's not relevant and it wasn't me.

 

Feel so sad. Thought that if he moved out and got some space from both of us it might make all the difference. My heart and head aren't working in tandem at the moment. Am so angry.

 

Tuesday evening he sent me an email that still spoke of him moving out. The next day (yesterday) he cancels the room and ALSO emails to say he loves me.

 

So angry angry angry angry angry. And soaked with tears.

 

How do I stop hurting?????? How do I stop wishing he'd contact me? It's just time, isn't it? I feel like I've been kicked in the gut a thousand times. What a coward. I can't believe he would choose that life over us.

 

I can't believe we can go from all to nothing in ten days. God, the last day we spent together was just so amazing, and he was so sure about us. Well, clearly not. I want to be so nasty to him. I want him to hurt like he's hurt me.

 

Sweetie we all know too well how you feel and it does hurt and the thoughts just become relentless I know. I have been out of my A for 2 years and have been NC for the last 10 months. My A ended with all or nothing in a matter of days too. I don't think any of our endings feel good.

 

It takes time...a lot of time. Keep posting here, maybe make an appointment with an individual therapist, and surround yourself with as much support as you can.

 

I can tell you from my experience that after my A ended I became obsessed with my XOM. He wanted to remain "just friends" and then continued to be flirty and sometimes ignore me. I finally went NC and it literally SAVED MY SANITY. You may want to think of going NC (no contact) yourself.

 

Please take care of yourself and allow yourself to grieve. You will get through this and you will get stronger.

[Silly_Girl]

Obsessed. Yes. That's how I feel. I have found out his wife's full name, address, professional memberships. I have all his work details. I log on to his hobby forum and see if he's been on there. I found the room he had put a deposit on.

 

So far I can't find anything to suggest he was an out and out liar. I think it's what he told me long ago. He is so scared of change. I was terrific escapism, but when all's said and done, he can't face changing his home, job, routines, financial situation, etc. I don't think he's got a great relationship, I think he feels very guilty, and she has been working on him since he said he was going. She has reminisced and been supportive and communicative. She even started showing affection, by stroking his hair and giving a peck on the cheek. That didn't happen before me. The holiday for her 40th was obviously a bridge too far.

 

Yes, clearly I didn't mean enough, else he'd have left her. But I can't think it was all the opposite of what I believed. It's not that she means loads and I mean nothing. He's lazy and cowardly but I believe he loved me and I believe when he said he was going to move he did mean it at the time.

 

But it was all just too much hassle apparently. I was too much effort. I don't understand how he could settle for the life he has. I don't know how we could have been so happy but together, and well-suited, and yet he didn't want to be with me. I probably sound so naive and childish, even. I never wanted to get involved when I met him. I was quite anti-men, but we grew close. Friends, then more. And it took my breath away. Changed my whole view about the potential in relationships, and moved my benchmark entirely.

 

I'm in total disbelief. Keep thinking this is a nightmare I'll wake up from.

 

I don't need to 'go NC'. I'll not hear from him again. He will be feeling ill, he will be churning and thinking of me, he'll be off doing his own thing and burying himself in his hobbies, he'll sleep loads more than usual. But he'll know he has been a total and utter ***** and he won't have the gall to get in touch. He'd think of it as salt in the wound. Whenever he's done something wrong he goes quiet because he can't bear to face up to it, he hates it when I'm hurt and just doesn't know how to put things right. He always managed but this, he can't put right. So he'll not be in touch. I wish he would.

[ladydesigner]

I don't need to 'go NC'. I'll not hear from him again. He will be feeling ill, he will be churning and thinking of me, he'll be off doing his own thing and burying himself in his hobbies, he'll sleep loads more than usual. But he'll know he has been a total and utter ***** and he won't have the gall to get in touch. He'd think of it as salt in the wound. Whenever he's done something wrong he goes quiet because he can't bear to face up to it, he hates it when I'm hurt and just doesn't know how to put things right. He always managed but this, he can't put right. So he'll not be in touch. I wish he would.

 

Why do you wish this? To be where you are at again. Hope is what kept me obsessing about my XOM for a whole year after our A ended because he felt "that his feelings were stronger for his girlfriend than he had thought." And if that was the case why did he still email me that he missed me, still had feelings for me, and was still thinking of me constantly. It still didn't change anything, he ended "Us" There are still times that I wish he would contact me again, but would I really want that? To go back to that dark place that made me sick and second guess myself? No

[Silly_Girl]

Why do I wish it? Because I know how unhappy they were when we met, and I feel guilt is why he has stayed. They were discussing splitting up when I met him.

 

Things improved when I came along.

 

I guess I am hoping that when it's the two of them in their bubble the reality will hit him and he'll make that leap.

 

Stupid isn't it?

[ladydesigner]

Why do I wish it? Because I know how unhappy they were when we met, and I feel guilt is why he has stayed. They were discussing splitting up when I met him.

 

Things improved when I came along.

 

I guess I am hoping that when it's the two of them in their bubble the reality will hit him and he'll make that leap.

 

Stupid isn't it?

 

No not stupid you love him. It doesn't sound like he has the b**ls to leave though. How long are you willing to hang onto this "hope" at your expense? I truly am sorry for the pain you are in.

[Silly_Girl]

You're right. I assume every day that passes will help me accept that he is not going to turn up to put things right. I married a man, and didn't feel anywhere near as much for him as I did for this guy. I feel a bit tricked, or like I'm a little bit crazy. Because I'd have bet everything I had on us ending up together, and it seems I'm so far off the mark. And I didn't believe it because of what he TOLD me. It was based on how we were, how we read each other's minds, how we enjoyed even being in the same room as each other, how we made plans, how we laughed together, things we both found moving, everything about us. THAT'S why I believed it and it's why I still can't believe it's disappeared.

 

God, when I think about us now it still seems completely inbelievable that there is no future. Everyone that knew us, saw us together thought we were the perfect couple.

 

Oh, it'll come. I have other things I need to work through in my life at the moment, so I'll only be able to give this a certain amount of headspace. And my son has helped me to get through some awful times, just through his very existence. I can't sit and wail, I must cook a dinner, or wash some clothes, or have a conversation. I am lucky, he's an amazing boy.

 

But I am going to try and stop looking at websites. Most of all I must stop reading our emails. I have spent hours and hours doing that, and they just make me cry. I must stop that.

[ladydesigner]

But I am going to try and stop looking at websites. Most of all I must stop reading our emails. I have spent hours and hours doing that, and they just make me cry. I must stop that.

 

I knew when my A ended that I needed to delete all emails from him because I knew I would be doing exactly what you are doing. If you can maybe print them out and file away in a box for later and then delete them form your email account. Sometimes I wish I still had them, but what for so I could torture myself. I am REAL good at torturing myself:o

 

It is amazing how our kids can pull us through these tough times mine certainly did.

[Silly_Girl]

Self-torturing. So easy to do. At the moment I feel blackness. Total emptiness as if there's nothing to look forward to. I want to go to sleep and stay there for weeks until this passes. And how ridiculous, over a man. I've been beaten up and cheated on and lied to and I've had injuries and redundancy and illness and bereavements. But this seems to feel worse. I need to get a grip, I think.

[silverplanets]

Self-torturing. So easy to do. At the moment I feel blackness. Total emptiness as if there's nothing to look forward to. I want to go to sleep and stay there for weeks until this passes. And how ridiculous, over a man. I've been beaten up and cheated on and lied to and I've had injuries and redundancy and illness and bereavements. But this seems to feel worse. I need to get a grip, I think.

 

Hi SG,

 

Sorry, it's late here and I'm tired after a fun, but long day with my daughter.

 

Just wanted to say your post struck a chord ... years ago when xMW pulled her first "I'm going to stay married" stunt it completely floored me. I'd been through much bigger sh*t, including a D, counselling my ex-wife and her new partner on their relationship issues etc etc, and so much more and this, this silly, silly, silly thing just completly flattened me.

 

Looking back I can see that for me, it floored me because this was the first time since I was very young that I had actually trusted, believed and genuinly commited to somone (yep I picked a dud to do that with !!) and I had let myself build a whole future (kids and all) around her ...

 

Looking back I was just stunningly naive (even with all I';d been through) and ripe for being taken advantage of.

 

She got back in touch after 5 years and I gave far too many more second chances - but they all ended the same way. She's make all the right noises up until the point at which something needed to happen .. and then there would be "reason" why.

 

I never invested as much of myself in it after the first time around, and always kept a little of me back, so although it still hurt it didn't break me.

 

Plus I've my child to look after so that keeps me centered.

 

So all I'm saying is that I can relate to being floored and just not understanding why.

 

It's ok to be floored, it's even ok to stay on the floor for a short while, and then, then you're going to get up and even though its hard you do have the strength to become whole again.

 

Remember - you had the strength to D .. he has not. So you have more strength than him.

 

Don't be too hard on yourself for feeling what you're feeling right now .. it's only human.

 

Chris:)

[Silly_Girl]

Hi SG,

 

Sorry, it's late here and I'm tired after a fun, but long day with my daughter.

 

Just wanted to say your post struck a chord ... years ago when xMW pulled her first "I'm going to stay married" stunt it completely floored me. I'd been through much bigger sh*t, including a D, counselling my ex-wife and her new partner on their relationship issues etc etc, and so much more and this, this silly, silly, silly thing just completly flattened me.

 

Looking back I can see that for me, it floored me because this was the first time since I was very young that I had actually trusted, believed and genuinly commited to somone (yep I picked a dud to do that with !!) and I had let myself build a whole future (kids and all) around her ...

 

Looking back I was just stunningly naive (even with all I';d been through) and ripe for being taken advantage of.

 

She got back in touch after 5 years and I gave far too many more second chances - but they all ended the same way. She's make all the right noises up until the point at which something needed to happen .. and then there would be "reason" why.

 

I never invested as much of myself in it after the first time around, and always kept a little of me back, so although it still hurt it didn't break me.

 

Plus I've my child to look after so that keeps me centered.

 

So all I'm saying is that I can relate to being floored and just not understanding why.

 

It's ok to be floored, it's even ok to stay on the floor for a short while, and then, then you're going to get up and even though its hard you do have the strength to become whole again.

 

Remember - you had the strength to D .. he has not. So you have more strength than him.

 

Don't be too hard on yourself for feeling what you're feeling right now .. it's only human.

 

Chris:)

 

Glad you had a nice day with your daughter

 

Yes, much bigger issues, relatively. It's not as though MM and I lived together, or had been together for years, or had a child together. The battles I've fought and things I've had done to me, this should not be big in my world... And yes, it's exactly as you say. I was totally trusting, I told him my 'stupid-thoughts', things I'd never told anyone ever. Told him my wildest dreams, deepest fears and things I'd done or felt that I'd never shared with anyone ever. Total and utter trust, emotionally and physically. And I thought I had that back the other way.

 

And 'ripe'. Yes, I see now I was ripe. After a difficult relationship, his gentle nature and the friendship we began was like an oasis. Which just grew and grew.

 

Got back in touch after FIVE YEARS. Jesus, that's a long time. And scary. I was hoping mine would get back in touch after 5 days ha ha ha!!! I can't imagine how much that must have messed with your head.

 

Did you carry on hoping? - well, I guess you must have done. I guess, even though you kept some of you back, you must have thought there was the chance of a future for the two of you. I'm definitely still hoping right now. But I think that it's okay to daydream (it's still early days) as long as I don't contact him.

 

I have the shortest of moments where I doubt whether we were as suited as I thought. Hindsight is cool. Like the fact I am quite a determined and brave person (usually!!) and clearly he isn't. Every decision, the house, the kids (or not) the everything would have been hard because he's so indecisive, and it would all have been my burden I think. I wouldn't have enjoyed that. I told myself after last time that any new relationship would consist of 2 adults, not 1 adult, 1 child.... But then I picture he and I together and the longing and tears come straight back! I'd take him back in a second, I know I would. IF he was out of the marital home, that is.

[Silly_Girl]

Having spent a few days kicking around here I picked up on the term 'split-self' and wish I hadn't. It describes my MM to a tee. And, to me, adds up completely. That just makes me feel more sad. Sad for him. Not sorry for him, that's different, he had the perfect opportunity to have the relationship - in his words - 'he'd craved all his life'. But it's sad that people choose to live like that because they just aren't brave or aware enough to deal with it. He's also a conflict avoider, his friends all said he was 'too nice' to his wife when she messed him around for a year. Not so nice to her now, I'd say!!

[silverplanets]

Glad you had a nice day with your daughter

 

Yes, much bigger issues, relatively. It's not as though MM and I lived together, or had been together for years, or had a child together. The battles I've fought and things I've had done to me, this should not be big in my world... And yes, it's exactly as you say. I was totally trusting, I told him my 'stupid-thoughts', things I'd never told anyone ever. Told him my wildest dreams, deepest fears and things I'd done or felt that I'd never shared with anyone ever. Total and utter trust, emotionally and physically. And I thought I had that back the other way.

 

And 'ripe'. Yes, I see now I was ripe. After a difficult relationship, his gentle nature and the friendship we began was like an oasis. Which just grew and grew.

 

Got back in touch after FIVE YEARS. Jesus, that's a long time. And scary. I was hoping mine would get back in touch after 5 days ha ha ha!!! I can't imagine how much that must have messed with your head.

 

Did you carry on hoping? - well, I guess you must have done. I guess, even though you kept some of you back, you must have thought there was the chance of a future for the two of you. I'm definitely still hoping right now. But I think that it's okay to daydream (it's still early days) as long as I don't contact him.

 

I have the shortest of moments where I doubt whether we were as suited as I thought. Hindsight is cool. Like the fact I am quite a determined and brave person (usually!!) and clearly he isn't. Every decision, the house, the kids (or not) the everything would have been hard because he's so indecisive, and it would all have been my burden I think. I wouldn't have enjoyed that. I told myself after last time that any new relationship would consist of 2 adults, not 1 adult, 1 child.... But then I picture he and I together and the longing and tears come straight back! I'd take him back in a second, I know I would. IF he was out of the marital home, that is.

 

i was in a shock for a long while the first time. Then I left the country.

 

Second time, yes I did hope she had changed, and it was a long, slow heartbreaking road to realise that she was just the same.

 

I've accepted it now - it really doesn't hurt any more. I get flashes of anger sometimes when a memory triggers ... but normally that anger is just cause I cringe with embarassemet at how easy I made it for her.

 

i found LS after going into NC .. I wish I'd found it a long time ago as it would have opened my eyes as to the patterns these things.

 

I really worked at NC ... or rather I really worked at keeping myself busy and doing anything and everything to keep myself sane. I went to IC, took joined the gym, went on holidays, spent even more time with my daughter, took up ice skating (I'm quite good now ), rock climbing etc and have avoided any and all relationships (cause I'm just not ready for one right now).

 

Of course, I also just cried, stayed in with the curtains drawn and mourned a lot as well ...

 

I also told my family and friends about it and they have been very understanding.

 

Day by day, becomes week by week, then month by month and then a whole year will have gone by ...

 

Chris

[Silly_Girl]

Well done. That's fantastic. Gives me hope too.