sagetalk Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 1. Now, how many of those women actually returned the attraction back to him? 2. Men can easily fall for girls that are their friends. I've done it many many times, and a good number of them I had no interest in until I spent more time with them. Every single one of them rejected me. The all liked me, but not in that way. 3. Not befriending women you want to date actually saves the man time, energy and prevents pain. That's why I now try to make my interest known to a woman in an appropriate amount of time and if she rejects my interest but offers friendship as a consolation prize, I politely decline her. 1. None of them, predictable as gravity. If you show heavy attraction first (unless you're Brad Pitt) and are LTR minded you are toast. 2. My experience is the same. It was only the girls that I completely ignored and never talked to who liked me. 3. You are learning well grasshopper. If you're intentions with women are good and towards a LTR, then you're in for a rough time. The more you read and learn about attracting women, the better off you will be. LTR minded guys are notorious for not knowing how to catch girls pants on fire, while jerks ONS guys ignite them in a few dates. Hang in there, and don't listen to women when it comes to advice on what attracts them. Most of them have no idea whatsoever.
Els Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 If you were a guy with that mentality you would be the loneliest sap in the world. Giving bad advice to guys about dating is cruel. As a woman, you have no clue how awful it is to get friendzoned. It is horrendous to befriend a women you are attracted to, endless torture unless when she tells you that you loose attraction for her (which is possible). Oh, have I no clue? Do you think women don't get attracted to male friends who don't feel the same way? Do you really think women haven't faced unrequited love before? You do not truly know women as you claim to, then. If it is so predictable, it would not have happened in the dozens of instances I have seen. You are simply making up rules of your own creation based on your own blindness to the other side of things, then. At least I have the eyes and sense to recognize that my way isn't the only way. You evidently don't. Simply because you and somedude have never experienced something, does not make it true. But of course I'm a woman and whatever I say makes no sense, despite the guys I've befriended and fallen in love with, and the relationships my friends are in. I must be dreaming all that up. Why don't you talk to the men on this thread who support 'connection', then? See whether they've had 0 success rate on it? Btw, I find it amusing how you think it's impossible to be friends first and then act on attraction quickly. It is not. You can be friends for a week and then act on it, and you have still been friends and have still acted quickly. Nobody's asking you to wait a year or two.
MisterXCinderella Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 SO WHAT? If men are not attracted to a particular woman, he won't be happy and he won't be willing to invest his time and energy to be with her. Wouldn't women want to date men that are willing to dedicate their time to be with them, to romance them, to make them feel something or would they prefer to just go through the motions...go to places...boring sex. Mister X Cinderella
Els Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 I also find it amusing how 'being friends first' is considered synonymous with 'showing heavy attraction early on'. Please explain to me how the two are correlated. Nobody likes to be called 487863745 times a day, friend or no friend. It isn't that hard to grasp.
Els Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 But how do you befriend and get to know someone who looks right through you, pretends you aren't there, and flirts with and pursues other women in your presence? I may not be the hot girl, but i do have some self respect. Why should I have to wait around for them to notice, "hey, she's fun" while they chase after girls out of their league. You don't. Friends don't pretend you're not there.
Author MrNate Posted May 30, 2010 Author Posted May 30, 2010 (edited) This is for you, Jersey Shortie. How many men do you think try to understand the mind of a woman? Quite a few actually, and I bet they're doing quite fine with women. I also bet they knew it's pointless to make silly assumptions about women as a whole, seeing as each one is different. Did you know all men are different jersey? Let's find out.. But this still doesn't stop men from oggling or thinking about banging "hot chicks. This is ultimately what wins out with men over anything else. People fantasize about other people all the time, from celebrities to that guy/girl next door. 'hot chicks' don't ultimately win out with all men, seeing as we are all attracted to different things. (interesting how that works) I have no doubt in my mind men want to be understood. (Just like women do actually!) and I have no doubt in my mind they form connections wiht "average" women. But they still oggle and think about and wish they could bang the "hot" chick even while the "average" girl that connected with him is there for him everyday. Once again, women do it too. (see post above) When have you ever tried to undersetand women and how their brain works?? I never see you try to understand women Mr.Nate. All I see you do is whine about what men need. You very rarely say anything about what women need.The ol' spin around technique eh? Fine, I'll play along: Have you ever tried to understand men? Well, i try to understand women all the time, and the more I do, the more I realize how much it's silly to make too many assumptions, because they're all individuals. I couldn't help but laugh when you brought up me whining. I rarely say anything about what women need because of two simple reasons: 1. They're all different. 2. I'm a male. Love, Mr.Nate Edited May 30, 2010 by MrNate
carhill Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 Why don't you talk to the men on this thread who support 'connection', then? See whether they've had 0 success rate on it? Believe in connection. Support connection. Believe in romance growth from friendship. Support it. Believe in equality. Support equality. Zero success from that perspective. Marriage resulted from online dating and dating before/during development of friendship/romance culminating in marriage. 51 years and counting. One datapoint Can't think of or recall one 'average' woman whom I've ignored. In fact, it was that 'demographic' which I targeted. Married one. Good luck on your path.
Author MrNate Posted May 30, 2010 Author Posted May 30, 2010 But how do you befriend and get to know someone who looks right through you, pretends you aren't there, and flirts with and pursues other women in your presence? I may not be the hot girl, but i do have some self respect. Why should I have to wait around for them to notice, "hey, she's fun" while they chase after girls out of their league. You shouldn't 'wait' on anyone. Don't waste your time on others who ignore you, and move on to someone who acknowledges you. Let that be their problem, not yours.
brainygirl Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 You shouldn't 'wait' on anyone. Don't waste your time on others who ignore you, and move on to someone who acknowledges you. Let that be their problem, not yours. This is why the whole "befriend him and make a connection and then he will eventually date you" advice doesn't make any sense to me.
somedude81 Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 (edited) But how do you befriend and get to know someone who looks right through you, pretends you aren't there, and flirts with and pursues other women in your presence? I may not be the hot girl, but i do have some self respect. Why should I have to wait around for them to notice, "hey, she's fun" while they chase after girls out of their league. How many guys do you make an actual effort to talk to? Where are you meeting these men? If your answer is a bar or club, then it's your fault for being passed over by men looking for hot girls. 1. None of them, predictable as gravity. If you show heavy attraction first (unless you're Brad Pitt) and are LTR minded you are toast. 2. My experience is the same. It was only the girls that I completely ignored and never talked to who liked me. 3. You are learning well grasshopper. If you're intentions with women are good and towards a LTR, then you're in for a rough time. The more you read and learn about attracting women, the better off you will be. LTR minded guys are notorious for not knowing how to catch girls pants on fire, while jerks ONS guys ignite them in a few dates. Hang in there, and don't listen to women when it comes to advice on what attracts them. Most of them have no idea whatsoever. Thanks for the advice sagetalk. Frankly I don't even know what I want from girls. I do know that I don't want a ONS and I'm not looking for a wife either. At this point I guess I'd be happy casually dating a couple of girls. Oh, have I no clue? Do you think women don't get attracted to male friends who don't feel the same way? Do you really think women haven't faced unrequited love before? You do not truly know women as you claim to, then. I'm sure it's happened. But the odds are greatly in favor of men facing unrequited love. I'm willing to say that seven out of 10 times, it's the guy falling for his female friend. In the rare occasions where it's a girl falling for her male friend, I wouldn't be surprised that the reason the two didn't get together was because the guy was already in a relationship at the time. Btw, I find it amusing how you think it's impossible to be friends first and then act on attraction quickly. It is not. You can be friends for a week and then act on it, and you have still been friends and have still acted quickly. Nobody's asking you to wait a year or two. You can become friends with somebody after only knowing them for a week or two? It takes me much longer to actually consider somebody a friend. If that's what you consider friends first, then I agree with you. In the past, it wasn't uncommon for me to ask out somebody that I've known for at least 6 months or more. And in those situations the girl had already decided that I was just her friend and nothing ever came of it. Both of us end up being really hurt when the friendship falls apart. The girl feels betrayed, thinking that the friendship was all a lie. Of course it wasn't a lie, I enjoyed being her friend, but that doesn't change the fact that I was interested in her. We were best friends and the friendship was absolutely destroyed. That's the danger of becoming friends and waiting too long. Just recently I've managed to cut that time down to three months. But I never thought of that girl as my friend. We were classmates, then acquaintances. We hung out a couple of times. When I made it obvious that I was into her, she rejected me. We then stopped talking. Doing it that way meant that I did not lose a friend. She didn't lose anything, and the pain I went through was minimal compared to if she had become my best friend and I lost her then. Edited May 30, 2010 by somedude81
Dragon1 Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 This is why the whole "befriend him and make a connection and then he will eventually date you" advice doesn't make any sense to me. Friends first is a catastrophic fail. The worst of the worst at finding LTRs believe in "friends first".
brainygirl Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 "if I was in a bar or club its my fault for being passed over" Are you KIDDING ME?!?!? Its MY fault that guys ACT LIKE JERKS? I meet people online, at bars, and just through friends. The same way 90% of the population meets people. I don't think its fair or right for you to seriously tell me its my fault I get passed over. Not when you are on here whining about being rejected by girls all the stinking time.
somedude81 Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 I'm sorry if my post came across as a personal attack. That wasn't my intent. "if I was in a bar or club its my fault for being passed over" Are you KIDDING ME?!?!? Its MY fault that guys ACT LIKE JERKS? I meet people online, at bars, [snip] Men who look for women in bars, clubs and online are only looking for hot girls. That is just the way it is. Yes those men are shallow. But that doesn't change the fact that it's your fault by getting passed over by men when you are trying to find them in those situations. and just through friends. The same way 90% of the population meets people. I don't have a way to explain getting passed over if you meet people through friends though. You've mentioned in other threads that you are a single mom. It takes a certain kind of man to date a woman who already has kids. A man would have to be very mature and secure in himself and financially secure as well to even consider it.
Author MrNate Posted May 30, 2010 Author Posted May 30, 2010 This is why the whole "befriend him and make a connection and then he will eventually date you" advice doesn't make any sense to me. I never said you had to befriend them. I just happened to be friends with them first. The ability to form connections and understand men is the main point I'm getting at here. And it's something that goes beyond being hot. That creates a lot of attraction.
sagetalk Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 1. Thanks for the advice sagetalk. Frankly I don't even know what I want from girls. I do know that I don't want a ONS and I'm not looking for a wife either. At this point I guess I'd be happy casually dating a couple of girls. 2. I'm sure it's happened. But the odds are greatly in favor of men facing unrequited love. I'm willing to say that seven out of 10 times, it's the guy falling for his female friend. 1. If you're not looking for a LTR, then it should be alot easier. Just tell her up front that you just want to have some fun and you aren't looking for anything serious. And watch the tables turn. In many cases she will start to develop LTR feeling for you. It's nuts I know, but the dating world is nuts. 2. And that's exactly why women defend it so much.
brainygirl Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 I'm sorry if my post came across as a personal attack. That wasn't my intent. Men who look for women in bars, clubs and online are only looking for hot girls. That is just the way it is. Yes those men are shallow. But that doesn't change the fact that it's your fault by getting passed over by men when you are trying to find them in those situations. I don't have a way to explain getting passed over if you meet people through friends though. You've mentioned in other threads that you are a single mom. It takes a certain kind of man to date a woman who already has kids. A man would have to be very mature and secure in himself and financially secure as well to even consider it. I have a great job and a career path that will pay my own bills. I am not interested in anyone's money. Why should his finances play a role? I've had a friend try to set me up. The guy only let her do it because he was interested in her. So basically I have no shot right? Because I will never have a smokin hot body. My personality is what it is, I think its great, I think I have fun and am fun to be around, but I guess my own opinion doesn't count, and the fact that I am raise three great kids who are better behaved than kids of two parent, stay at home mommy homes counts against me? Nice, freakin nice. I give up.
Author MrNate Posted May 30, 2010 Author Posted May 30, 2010 I have a great job and a career path that will pay my own bills. I am not interested in anyone's money. Why should his finances play a role? I've had a friend try to set me up. The guy only let her do it because he was interested in her. So basically I have no shot right? Because I will never have a smokin hot body. My personality is what it is, I think its great, I think I have fun and am fun to be around, but I guess my own opinion doesn't count, and the fact that I am raise three great kids who are better behaved than kids of two parent, stay at home mommy homes counts against me? Nice, freakin nice. I give up. 'Stay at home mommy' can count against you greatly if you pursue single, childless men who may want kids in the future. I think most women with kids do themselves a disservice when they try to compete with childless women in pursuing single, childless guys. For a childless man, he will generally give priority to childless women, which is perfectly fine and normal. Instead of giving up, maybe lets shift the approach.... to seeking single fathers, or even men who don't want kids, but don't mind children. I believe success would be higher in these areas.
brainygirl Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 'Stay at home mommy' can count against you greatly if you pursue single, childless men who may want kids in the future. I think most women with kids do themselves a disservice when they try to compete with childless women in pursuing single, childless guys. For a childless man, he will generally give priority to childless women, which is perfectly fine and normal. Instead of giving up, maybe lets shift the approach.... to seeking single fathers, or even men who don't want kids, but don't mind children. I believe success would be higher in these areas. I am not a stay at home mom. My kids are better than their kids are. My kids know they aren't the center of the universe. I don't pursue childless men. I don't really care as long as he's responsible - ie hasn't abandoned them and pays his support. I am a teacher. I work. I go to a place and they pay me a salary and I pay my own bills. I hardly see how this should count against me. I also hardly see how my having been through three kinds of hell and back with my ex would make me less desireable to be around. I honestly am beginning to think that all guys are jerks. They want young, cute women with thin tummies and no history and they aren't interested in anything else. Most of what I've read here has convinced me of that. I signed in to see what was up and found out. I'm a hopeless case. Guys can whine about girls younger than them not paying attention to them and people pour out of the woodwork to give him advice. Me, I'm told "hey, its your fault" Well, if I shouldn't go to clubs, andI shouldn't go online, where the hell should I go?
sagetalk Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 (edited) 1. Oh, have I no clue? Do you think women don't get attracted to male friends who don't feel the same way? Do you really think women haven't faced unrequited love before? You do not truly know women as you claim to, then. 2. If it is so predictable, it would not have happened in the dozens of instances I have seen. 3. Btw, I find it amusing how you think it's impossible to be friends first and then act on attraction quickly. It is not. You can be friends for a week and then act on it, and you have still been friends and have still acted quickly. Nobody's asking you to wait a year or two. 1. I've never claimed I know women, but I do know that most of them have no idea why they are attracted to the males they are attracted to. Do they list reasons, yes, but few of them are the true reasons because they are unaware of them. 2. You're seeing them from a woman's perspective, so I have no idea how the relationships happened. Most girls will say they were friends with their boyfriend/husband first (it sounds good and decent), but actually being friends first is a completely different thing altogether. 3. Knowing someone a week and making a move is not friends first. I'm starting to see why you think it's possible. Edited May 30, 2010 by sagetalk
legallyblonde289 Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 1. I've never claimed I know women, but I do know that most of them have no idea why they are attracted to the males they are attracted to. Do they lists reasons, yes, but none of them are the true reasons because are unaware of them. 2. You're seeing them from a woman's perspective, so I have no idea how the relationships happened. Most girls will say they were friends with their boyfriend/husband first (it sounds good and decent), but actually being friends first is a completely different thing altogether. 3. Knowing someone a week and making a move is not friends first. I'm starting to see why you think it's possible. im going to go out on a limb and say 99.9% of the men ive dated i was not friends with first. however, i think it can happen, when people who previously had no romantic interest in each other start to develop feelings for each other after getting to know each other more and more. and i think that these situations probably occur less often but when it does occur probably have a greater probability of success because you already know each's flaws etc. however i dont think it works when one person secretly has feelings for the other and tries to develop that friendship in hopes that it will turn into a relationship.
Author MrNate Posted May 30, 2010 Author Posted May 30, 2010 I am not a stay at home mom. My kids are better than their kids are. My kids know they aren't the center of the universe. I don't pursue childless men. I don't really care as long as he's responsible - ie hasn't abandoned them and pays his support. I am a teacher. I work. I go to a place and they pay me a salary and I pay my own bills. I hardly see how this should count against me. I also hardly see how my having been through three kinds of hell and back with my ex would make me less desireable to be around. I honestly am beginning to think that all guys are jerks. They want young, cute women with thin tummies and no history and they aren't interested in anything else. Most of what I've read here has convinced me of that. I signed in to see what was up and found out. I'm a hopeless case. Guys can whine about girls younger than them not paying attention to them and people pour out of the woodwork to give him advice. Me, I'm told "hey, its your fault" Well, if I shouldn't go to clubs, andI shouldn't go online, where the hell should I go? Three billion guys are jerks? Why are you putting so much energy in your incorrect assumption that all guys just want hot women? You know this is LS right? Basing your opinion off of the guys on here is a grave mistake. There's no way us few can represent for the billions out there. Another question, why are you blaming all guys? Surely it has nothing to do with you as well right? I don't want to hear 'Ive done the best I can', because if this were so, you wouldn't be calling all men jerks. So of course it's easier to give up, because this allows you to make your irrational thoughts seem rational. I don't care what you do. I don't care what you think about men, but I can tell you this: The moment you give up, you LOSE. Maybe it's time to step back and re-examine things. This defeatist, blame all guys mindset is grossly unattractive.
DollWelch Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 ha. Well, the point of my thread was that I really think more men go for average women, than women who are obviously hot. I'm guessing you disagree with that? Yes and no. Realistically speaking, if most men go for average women then we'd see an influx of "Average Women" being the "New Hot Girl/Angelina Jolie". This is not the case. So, men will always chase after gorgeous women. Beauty is subjective, or men are just too picky!
brainygirl Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 Three billion guys are jerks? Why are you putting so much energy in your incorrect assumption that all guys just want hot women? You know this is LS right? Basing your opinion off of the guys on here is a grave mistake. There's no way us few can represent for the billions out there. Another question, why are you blaming all guys? Surely it has nothing to do with you as well right? I don't want to hear 'Ive done the best I can', because if this were so, you wouldn't be calling all men jerks. So of course it's easier to give up, because this allows you to make your irrational thoughts seem rational. I don't care what you do. I don't care what you think about men, but I can tell you this: The moment you give up, you LOSE. Maybe it's time to step back and re-examine things. This defeatist, blame all guys mindset is grossly unattractive. The guys on here all CLAIM to be typical guys in one way or another. Why wouldn't they be representative of maledom? I'm not interested in approaching 3 billion dudes to find one who wont blow me off or tell me they don't want to date but their happy to FWB me. Defeatist isn't attractive and I've never gone into a dating/bar situation and announced all men are jerks. But being myself certainly hasn't helped. The best advice I've gotten here is to go get myself a smokin body and then they wont care that I have kids. I've already lost. I've accomplished things in my life that people said I never would. But in the process I've lost any chance for a decent partner.
Author MrNate Posted May 30, 2010 Author Posted May 30, 2010 Yes and no. Realistically speaking, if most men go for average women then we'd see an influx of "Average Women" being the "New Hot Girl/Angelina Jolie". This is not the case. So, men will always chase after gorgeous women. Beauty is subjective, or men are just too picky! Of course beauty is subjective, which is why I don't think average women really get ignored that often by guys to go pursue some hot woman. I can never tell if you agree or disagree with me. Which leaves me confused. Your elusiveness is not good for my psyche, ha.
DollWelch Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 Of course beauty is subjective, which is why I don't think average women really get ignored that often by guys to go pursue some hot woman. I can never tell if you agree or disagree with me. Which leaves me confused. Your elusiveness is not good for my psyche, ha. Think of it in statistical/mathematical terms: Roughly 68% (Famous Number) of the time men will go after beautiful women. Otherwise, it's a hit or miss type of thing. You never know which way men will sway. That's why I say, women should hit it when it's hot. You only get one chance at first impressions!
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