mortensorchid Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 In the eternal debate about "bad boys" and "nice guys", I have come to the conclusion that there is the bad boy whose definition is rather obvious : has an element of danger about him, often times gets into more trouble than not, can't get it together, drinks too much, treats women badly, etc. But I would like to end the "nice guy" debate once and for all. I have determined that there is no such thing as a "nice guy". Those who are not under the Bad Boy umbrella are not automatically in the Nice Guy arena. Quite honestly, thanks to tens of hundreds of thousands of experiences, I do not see them as being good. They are wimps, the Beta males. Those "Non Bad Boy" males are wimps. They don't go after the things they want because they are too afraid to. They have no spines, and yet they are self centered enough to make everything all about them. Nuts? Well there have been a few who were truly unstable in the past, but even they were insecure enough. They are, now that I read this, rather sociopathic and contradictory. They never stand behind their principals, rarely if ever follow through on anything (not just relationship wise), and waffle on their promises. None of these things just described make a man be a "nice guy", but neither do they make a "bad boy" either. I guess I am becoming more and more bitter as time goes on. I can't stand the abuse anymore than I already have or how much people don't seem to care enough or show enough courtesy to each other. I'm reverting back to my pubescent years, I'm going to put up posters of my old teen idols and have them as my "pretend" boyfriends again.
brainygirl Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 There are also the eternal frat boys. They are sexually unmotivated, they work just enough to not be homeless even though they have decent educations, they spend their nights partying and sleep in till noon or later every day. They sorta want a girlfriend but don't have the money to take a girl out and don't really want some chick calling them to see what they are doing next weekend because they were thinking about going on a float trip with the guys. . . ..
brainygirl Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 The priest at the parish next to the school I teach in is always saying Mmkay in his sermons.
Ihavenoidea Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 I disagree, I blew **** up in the military, I ride motorcycles, jump out of planes, ask plenty of women out, and do numerous other dangerous activities but most consider me a "nice guy" because I am a gentleman to whomever I am courting. "Nice guy" is a word that is completely misused just like the term "curvy" but we already had those discussions.
brainygirl Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 I think there are nice guys -> guys who are actually nice, polite, respectful of others and considorate of their SO and parents, and then there are "nice guys" who feel the need to tell you what a nice guy they are and will "play" at being a "nice guy" just long enough to get what they want. That being in a girl's pants, a favor, a spouse, a place to live (an amazing number of unemployed and nearly indigent men have told me what wonderful house husbands they would make . . . ), but once they have what they want, the go off their good behavior and the girl will see more drinking, pot smoking, money wasting, inconsidoration and otherwise azzhat behavior.
sagetalk Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 You would have to be completely bitter to believe nice guys do not exist yet bad guys do. Bad guys will always be the easiest to spot because they have the most to gain. Nice guys are hard to find because you get absolutely no rewards for being one. Girls cross their legs at you and say, "not in a million years" unless you put forth insane amounts of effort, yet if a jerk makes a remark about how trampy she is, she jumps into bed with him. For a type of guy that doesn't exist, you sure as heck like ripping on them. Yet in your post you never rip on jerks. Jerks are abusive, cowards who take advantages of women's weaknesses to get sex from them. They are low life scum. I don't think you like nice guys, you like jerks. But when you date jerks they will: cheat on you, lie to you, abuse you, bring other women in their life, lower your self esteem, guaranteed! There are nice guys in the world, this post is just a pity party because you're tired of dating 1000 jerks and average guys who treat you bad. And if you have met a nice guy, you've obviously never dated him. You might want to think about why that is whether than lashing out at a group of men who are already needlessly ridiculed as it is, and far too few in number these days.
Lakeside_runner Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 ... ask plenty of women out, and do numerous other dangerous activities ... :lmao::lmao:
txsilkysmoothe Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 ask plenty of women out, and do numerous other dangerous activities :lmao::lmao: LOL indeed. :lmao:
Morals Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 You would have to be completely bitter to believe nice guys do not exist yet bad guys do. Bad guys will always be the easiest to spot because they have the most to gain. Nice guys are hard to find because you get absolutely no rewards for being one. Girls cross their legs at you and say, "not in a million years" unless you put forth insane amounts of effort, yet if a jerk makes a remark about how trampy she is, she jumps into bed with him. For a type of guy that doesn't exist, you sure as heck like ripping on them. Yet in your post you never rip on jerks. Jerks are abusive, cowards who take advantages of women's weaknesses to get sex from them. They are low life scum. I don't think you like nice guys, you like jerks. But when you date jerks they will: cheat on you, lie to you, abuse you, bring other women in their life, lower your self esteem, guaranteed! There are nice guys in the world, this post is just a pity party because you're tired of dating 1000 jerks and average guys who treat you bad. And if you have met a nice guy, you've obviously never dated him. You might want to think about why that is whether than lashing out at a group of men who are already needlessly ridiculed as it is, and far too few in number these days. Great post sage! I think the OP would fall into the situation of "That which we hate most about ourselves we hate in others". Don't you agree? (Liking jerks has perhaps turned her into the female version of one?)
Ihavenoidea Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 :lmao::lmao: Would you like me to be specific? LOL all you want, llike i need to prove anything to a bunch of anonymous people over an internet forum.
MyNameIsJane Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 eh. I didn't read all the replies to this - and I am sure people have already provided exceptions... but there are in-betweeners... I used to think the same exact way... I don't want a guy to ask me if it is okay to kiss me... I don't want a pansy.. and it always seems that the pansies are the ones that are saying "why don't girls like nice guys. I am a genuinely nice guy." Maybe so... but you're a wimp. But I hate bad boys... and by that, I mean game playing shady guys. Again.. I am sure there are exceptions.. But my current boyfriend is a nice guy. He treats me right and is romantic - BUT he wasn't - and still isn't a pansy. He doesn't roll over and do everything I ask, doesn't agree with everything I say, he wasn't scared to just grab me and kiss me on the first date, and has his own wants/needs/desires... he has a spine. I think it is just hard to find that happy medium.
Ihavenoidea Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 eh. I didn't read all the replies to this - and I am sure people have already provided exceptions... but there are in-betweeners... I used to think the same exact way... I don't want a guy to ask me if it is okay to kiss me... I don't want a pansy.. and it always seems that the pansies are the ones that are saying "why don't girls like nice guys. I am a genuinely nice guy." Maybe so... but you're a wimp. But I hate bad boys... and by that, I mean game playing shady guys. Again.. I am sure there are exceptions.. But my current boyfriend is a nice guy. He treats me right and is romantic - BUT he wasn't - and still isn't a pansy. He doesn't roll over and do everything I ask, doesn't agree with everything I say, he wasn't scared to just grab me and kiss me on the first date, and has his own wants/needs/desires... he has a spine. I think it is just hard to find that happy medium. This probably makes the most sense. Happy medium is good.
BetterOffWithoutYou Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 Those who are not under the Bad Boy umbrella are not automatically in the Nice Guy arena. Quite honestly, thanks to tens of hundreds of thousands of experiences, I do not see them as being good. They are wimps, the Beta males. Those "Non Bad Boy" males are wimps. They don't go after the things they want because they are too afraid to. They have no spines, and yet they are self centered enough to make everything all about them. Nuts? Well there have been a few who were truly unstable in the past, but even they were insecure enough. They are, now that I read this, rather sociopathic and contradictory. They never stand behind their principals, rarely if ever follow through on anything (not just relationship wise), and waffle on their promises. None of these things just described make a man be a "nice guy", but neither do they make a "bad boy" either. I have been fooled by these so called "nice guys" as well! I know exactly the type of man you are talking about These type of men do the most harm because you think they are nice but in the end their true colors show. I still have faith that I will find a "nice guy", I do know a few and they exist... just not as much as the other types of men do. I also understand why you feel so bitter from the emotional abuse, I hope you are able to heal and believe that one day you will find the right man...I'm still on that path! Best of luck <3
Ihavenoidea Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 A friend of mine says she gives a guy 3 months before his true colors come out. Not trying to derail but is this true. Is there some kind of change at around 3 months or so or in that general time frame, im sure it various but still?
Lakeside_runner Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 Would you like me to be specific? LOL all you want, llike i need to prove anything to a bunch of anonymous people over an internet forum. Easy there! Geez... people here are so guarded these days - they just think that everything is a personal attack. I just found the wording funny: "...ask girls out and do other dangerous stuff...". I don't think I've to spell out what I found funny, do I? PEOPLE - RELAX!!!
Ihavenoidea Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 The general comment is funny as I was trying to be general wihout listing everything. You laughter implied I was lieing or in some way exaggerated. Perhaps I should have split the sentances rather than imply asking women out was somehow a dangerous act which was definetly not what I was trying to accomplish. Yes I just got it. LOL
Lakeside_runner Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 Depends on what you find funny? The general comment is funny as I was trying to be general wihout listing everything. You laughter implied I was lieing or in some way exaggerated. OK then - "...ask girls out and do other dangerous stuff..." sounded as if asking a girl out were a dangerous activity. That and only that is what I was referring to, hence my laughter. Just for the record, I agree with your point of view.
Ihavenoidea Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 OK then - "...ask girls out and do other dangerous stuff..." sounded as if asking a girl out were a dangerous activity. That and only that is what I was referring to, hence my laughter. Just for the record, I agree with your point of view. we had an edit delay, ya i knew what you meant took me a few to figure out what i had said. I cant edit it now so I think I'm going to make it my new sig LOL
BetterOffWithoutYou Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 ihavenoidea... in my opinion through my own experiences and the experiences of my friends, i would say a man's true colors come out once he know you love him and are hooked on him. once he feels comfortable and safe, he starts to stop courting and start being the real him. so many people, not only men, put on an act to win someone's heart...this behavior is horrible for the person who gets suckered in. you fall in love with a pretend person, and suddenly you realize what you a truly dealing with as time passes. i've had this happen with all of my exes. it's so disheartening but i keep faith that one day i will find someone as genuine as i am!
Ihavenoidea Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 ihavenoidea... in my opinion through my own experiences and the experiences of my friends, i would say a man's true colors come out once he know you love him and are hooked on him. once he feels comfortable and safe, he starts to stop courting and start being the real him. so many people, not only men, put on an act to win someone's heart...this behavior is horrible for the person who gets suckered in. you fall in love with a pretend person, and suddenly you realize what you a truly dealing with as time passes. i've had this happen with all of my exes. it's so disheartening but i keep faith that one day i will find someone as genuine as i am! I see what you are saying. I know some of my past relationships the romance have trickled off, the difference though is I didnt pretend. I could see how that sucks. Ya I'm pretty genuine I wont chase or court anyone that I dont have a romantic interest in and I can only court one at a time. I cant multi-date. I try to keep romance alive with little hidden notes in her purse, sometimes ill do flowers. I found cards actually to mean the most. Just little things I guess. I think I can see where this comes from.
TheBigQuestion Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 "Nice guys" are spineless cowards. Nice guys (the lack of quotes around that phrase is important) are genuinely good, caring people that possess a backbone and go after what they want without much worry for failure. A lot of frustrated "nice guys" think this nice guy is a jerk. "Jerks/bad boys" may or may not be genuinely bad people, but they are extremely rough around the edges in many ways. They attract a lot of women initially because they own a pair of balls, but their personality deficiencies typically make their relationships short lived and painful. I think most women are really looking for guy number 2.
TheBigQuestion Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 There are also the eternal frat boys. They are sexually unmotivated, they work just enough to not be homeless even though they have decent educations, they spend their nights partying and sleep in till noon or later every day. They sorta want a girlfriend but don't have the money to take a girl out and don't really want some chick calling them to see what they are doing next weekend because they were thinking about going on a float trip with the guys. . . .. Hey, if I could honestly live my life this way, I would (minus the sexually unmotivated part. I'm pretty much insatiable). I see little value in being part of the rat race and having my career consume my life instead of pursuing my hobbies and spending time with my loved ones. If I could sleep in on the weekends after nights of partying and have that be a regular part of my life, I absolutely would. Of course, I'm starting law school in August which pretty much makes me a giant hypocrite, no?
Morals Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 eh. I didn't read all the replies to this - and I am sure people have already provided exceptions... but there are in-betweeners... I used to think the same exact way... I don't want a guy to ask me if it is okay to kiss me... I don't want a pansy.. and it always seems that the pansies are the ones that are saying "why don't girls like nice guys. I am a genuinely nice guy." Maybe so... but you're a wimp. But I hate bad boys... and by that, I mean game playing shady guys. Again.. I am sure there are exceptions.. But my current boyfriend is a nice guy. He treats me right and is romantic - BUT he wasn't - and still isn't a pansy. He doesn't roll over and do everything I ask, doesn't agree with everything I say, he wasn't scared to just grab me and kiss me on the first date, and has his own wants/needs/desires... he has a spine. I think it is just hard to find that happy medium. Our personal behavior is a product of conditioning. More specifically modifying our own behavior based on the reactions we receive from others. Nice guys aren't spineless cowards, or at least they weren't from the start. Most nice guys start off as probably more aggressive/eager then most of the polar extremes (Jerks as you put it). The problem is, their personality isn't anywhere where a "Jerk" guys' is. But at the same time they go in for that kiss on the first date, and then they either get slapped, never called again, or never hear from that girl again. Men are creatures of adaptive behavior. We don't like failing. We realize that failing is INEVITABLE, but ultimately if we have a choice between failing or not failing, guess what we will choose? So in order to not fail, we change our behavior, after trying a few times to push for that kiss on the first, or even second date. We aren't lucky. Then we decide, OK, I need to back off and wait for a later date. The problem here is, that SOME guys did get lucky. They get confident, and somehow that confidence empowers them. While the unlucky ones, try to figure out what went wrong and readjust their behavior. I believe that's why we have a lot of polar extremes in terms of men's personalities, and very few examples/discussions of any of the "middle ground" guys. Ultimately our behavior is guided by the reactions of others and drives us towards one end of the spectrum or the other. It's not a good thing, it emotionally scars us, and turns us into either people we didn't think we would be, or people we don't like to be. It is an unfortunate circumstance. But don't for one second think that every "Nice guy" (with quotes or without) is spineless. The only reason some nice guys don't make moves on the first date is because men don't like failing, and somewhere along the way, they found out that waiting to move in for <insert romantic situation here> proves to have a higher success rate.
espec10001 Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 These threads bring often to mind the old adage "Those in glass houses should not throw stones." Who are you to judge who is a "wimp" or a "nice guy" or a "alpha male"? The answer is you are not the judge, nor is any other person. Point the finger and label a person, and you label yourself! Thus, threads that call others names is a window into a person's insecurities as in he has to cut others down to make himself feel better.
Citizen Erased Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 This debate is ridiculous. Yeah, cos there MUST only be two different kinds of men. I may as well start a thread stating there are only two races, Caucasian and African. Despite if you open your eyes and look around elsewhere but your little box you will see it's in fact not true. Get a hobby. This crap has ruined this forum enough.
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