New Here ... My Story ... Looking for support

[Livalike]

Hi everyone,

 

I've been lurking for a while and I am grateful for the information that I have gained by reading about the experiences of others.

 

My story: I am the OW and have been for about 20 months. Things have been amazing and I love him, but I have never asked my MM to leave his BS. About 6 months ago, MM confessed to me that he was thinking of leaving his BS for me and entered IC as a result of his conflicted feelings. This was right after he took a "disaster of a trip" to Europe with his BS. He stayed in IC for 3 months and then quit because he felt that it was only making things less clear for him. It has only been since he told me that he has thought of leaving that I have admitted to myself that I want that as well and that I crave a future with him. We have had two serious discussions in the last 6 months and on both occasions he has broken down with guilt issues with respect to his daughter (she is 20 now and suffers from eating disorders and depression) and fear that his BS, who struggles with alcoholism and pain killer addiction, will relapse or OD if he leaves. I still have not told him that I want him to leave. I do not want to cause either of them harm so I support him taking the time he needs to to not only reach a decision, but if he chooses to leave, to leave causing the least amount of pain for his daughter and BS. To say that the last 6 months have been a roller coaster of emotions for me, is a gross understatement.

 

Last week, BS saw messages from me to MM. She confronted him and he said that we are friends and they both left it that, although BS has made numerous comments since. This made MM realize that he needed to make a decision sooner than later. Yesterday MM told me that he and BS are going to Europe for 2 weeks (leaving in a week) because he has to "give it one last chance". The trip was booked just 2 days ago (he sent me the receipt and itinerary as proof). Although part of me is devastated, the other part of me is anxious for this to end one way or the other and hopeful that they will have another disaster of a trip. Although I feel bad for hoping that.

 

I cannot help but feel, however, that MM is just stringing me along and things will never change. He really hasn't given me any reason to think this, but I just fear it. I want to ask him if this is the case -- is it terrible of me to do this before his trip? Should I confront him with my feelings when he returns? Before he leaves? Should I tell him that I want him to leave?

 

I guess I'm just looking for opinions, support and advice from those in similar situations.

 

Thank you to everyone that has taken the time to read.

[Brokenlady]

In all liklihood, your telling him that you want him to leave won't make a difference one way or the other. If your opinion on his leaving mattered that deeply to him, he would have asked you, so he's got other things on his mind.

 

If he's telling you he wants to give it one last shot, he's already made his decision. If he tries to contact you while he's in Europe with her, don't take his calls. Tell him you intend to give him this time to "really" try. Bear in mind that 2 weeks in Europe does not constitute a reall effort at saving the marriage and more likely constitutes a real effort at covering his a$$ since she saw the texts.

 

If he's truly stringing you along, and I suspect he is, it's not in his interest to tell you that, so it's unrealistic for you to expect honesty from him about that. His brief stint in IC should tell you that he isn't interested in changing. He likes having both.

 

The only thing you can do right now is set your boundaries - tell him ok, you chose to give your marriage one last try. Fine. I am not going to interfere with that by having any contact with you, and I am not going to wait around for you. Contact me ONLY when you've made and ACTED on the decision to leave. until then, lots o luck. This is INCREDIBLY hard to do, but I promise you that if you don't hold your ground, you'll regret it.

 

(My MM left his xW and she divorced him quite some time ago. They still act like they're married and he refuses to have boundaries with her. She still wants him back. He admits he is still trying to hold on to both of us. We were engaged, his xW found out and he lied to her. He took her on vacation behind my back. All because I didn't do what I'm telling you to do right now. If I could do it over,and I wish I could, I'd do what I'm suggesting you do).

[2sure]

 

I cannot help but feel, however, that MM is just stringing me along and things will never change. He really hasn't given me any reason to think this, but I just fear it. I want to ask him if this is the case -- is it terrible of me to do this before his trip? Should I confront him with my feelings when he returns? Before he leaves? Should I tell him that I want him to leave?

 

Well, so far all you have are WORDS. Justifications and excuses. Staying for the kids (in this case adult child), the spouse is nuts/drunk/dependent. Same as everyone else.

 

What you have to look at and accept - are ACTIONS. He and his wife apparently get along well enough, and can leave their daughter (who is so ill? ) long enough to go on extended vacations together abroad on a regular basis no less! . Thats not really something someone thinking of getting out of a marriage does. Someone thinking of getting out of a marriage goes away alone. Someone trying to recover a marriage tells OW to give him space. You cant do both. As much as he would like to ...because thats what he wants.

 

See what he DOES and ignore what he SAYS...and there you have it.

[jthorne]

If you feel in your gut that you're being strung along, you most likely are.

[Livalike]

Thanks for your thoughts. I think why I'm so confused and having such a hard time now is that my gut is telling me that he is NOT stringing me along, but my head is telling me that he is. Does that make any sense?!

[Brokenlady]

Thanks for your thoughts. I think why I'm so confused and having such a hard time now is that my gut is telling me that he is NOT stringing me along, but my head is telling me that he is. Does that make any sense?!

 

Technically he isn't stringing you along. He told you flat out he's going to Europe with his Wife to try to work his marriage out. It seems you're having trouble accepting this decision because he dangled the possibility that it won't work. I've been there. I get it, honestly.

 

But think about this. He's probably telling his wife he wants to work on things. He's going to be making love to her while they're away. He's purposely traveling an ocean away from you to be with his wife. Does that sound like a man on the brink of leaving? He's going to patch things up with her - he TOLD you that. He's not leaving his wife.

[OWoman]

He stayed in IC for 3 months and then quit because he felt that it was only making things less clear for him.

 

...which probably translates as, was making things more uncomfortable for him, forcing him to confront things he'd rather not. If he was serious about gaining clarity, he'd find another counsellor and try harder.

 

My H also had an alcoholic, unbalanced W, who was high risk, and kids who'd cracked during a previous separation attempt. But, unless he was willing to be held hostage his entire life, he realised that there was never going to be a "better time" than any other to leave. And, guess what? Although there was some self-destructive behaviour following the split, the xW didn't do any more lasting damage than she'd done over the years to herself anyway. The kids more than survived - they thrived! Being taken out of that toxic environment did them the world of good! And, it's rumoured, the xW has even toyed with getting counselling herself. So - great improvements all round, for everyone. But those don't come from sitting in a hotel in Europe moping about how awful everything is - they come from doing something about it.

 

So much for him - that's the easy part. What are YOU going to do? Are you willing to hang around in the wings on the off-chance that he does finally get it together? What are the costs to yourself involved in doing so? What do you gain by waiting - whether or not he ever manages to leave? What do you lose by waiting? What matters more to you?

[OWoman]

He's purposely traveling an ocean away from you to be with his wife. Does that sound like a man on the brink of leaving?

 

It depends on what happens on that holiday.

 

Divorce lawyers in the UK attest that their business peaks just after the holidays, when people return home after being forced to spend undiluted time with spouses that they no longer love / have a connection with, ESPECIALLY when there are potential dealbreaker factors like heavy drinking involved.

 

He may be using the overseas holiday as a litmus test - being together all day everyday for two whole weeks will give them time to reconnect - or fall apart. Without the daily distractions of home and work and family, they'll have nothing but each other to deal with. Either their "working on the M" will work - or the lid will blast right off and he'll be gagging to get back to escape her. Which way it works out will depend on how badly both of them want it to, and what all they're prepared to invest to make that happen.

[Brokenlady]

It depends on what happens on that holiday.

 

Divorce lawyers in the UK attest that their business peaks just after the holidays, when people return home after being forced to spend undiluted time with spouses that they no longer love / have a connection with, ESPECIALLY when there are potential dealbreaker factors like heavy drinking involved.

 

He may be using the overseas holiday as a litmus test - being together all day everyday for two whole weeks will give them time to reconnect - or fall apart. Without the daily distractions of home and work and family, they'll have nothing but each other to deal with. Either their "working on the M" will work - or the lid will blast right off and he'll be gagging to get back to escape her. Which way it works out will depend on how badly both of them want it to, and what all they're prepared to invest to make that happen.

 

True, but this may also well work out to be a whole lot of anticipation for nothing. It is more likely than not that it change nothing except perhaps shutting his wife up about the text messages. I just hate to see the OP waiting around figuring that in 2 weeks her pain is over. I would put money on nothing changing. He hasn't shown much interest in change thusfar.

[Livalike]

He may be using the overseas holiday as a litmus test - being together all day everyday for two whole weeks will give them time to reconnect - or fall apart. Without the daily distractions of home and work and family, they'll have nothing but each other to deal with. Either their "working on the M" will work - or the lid will blast right off and he'll be gagging to get back to escape her. Which way it works out will depend on how badly both of them want it to, and what all they're prepared to invest to make that happen.

 

 

Well, this is pretty much what he said when he told me.

 

Is it a good idea to suggest NC during the two weeks that he is away? I know he will stay in touch while he is gone. I am even thinking of booking my own holiday over the next two weeks which I know will drive him nuts (or is that childish?).

[2sure]

If you are thinking you may want a long term commitment in the future with this man....

 

Dont you think you should step completely out of the picture until he decides with his wife where they want the marriage to go??

[Fallen Angel]

In all liklihood, your telling him that you want him to leave won't make a difference one way or the other. If your opinion on his leaving mattered that deeply to him, he would have asked you, so he's got other things on his mind.

 

If he's telling you he wants to give it one last shot, he's already made his decision. If he tries to contact you while he's in Europe with her, don't take his calls. Tell him you intend to give him this time to "really" try. Bear in mind that 2 weeks in Europe does not constitute a reall effort at saving the marriage and more likely constitutes a real effort at covering his a$$ since she saw the texts.

 

If he's truly stringing you along, and I suspect he is, it's not in his interest to tell you that, so it's unrealistic for you to expect honesty from him about that. His brief stint in IC should tell you that he isn't interested in changing. He likes having both.

 

The only thing you can do right now is set your boundaries - tell him ok, you chose to give your marriage one last try. Fine. I am not going to interfere with that by having any contact with you, and I am not going to wait around for you. Contact me ONLY when you've made and ACTED on the decision to leave. until then, lots o luck. This is INCREDIBLY hard to do, but I promise you that if you don't hold your ground, you'll regret it.

 

(My MM left his xW and she divorced him quite some time ago. They still act like they're married and he refuses to have boundaries with her. She still wants him back. He admits he is still trying to hold on to both of us. We were engaged, his xW found out and he lied to her. He took her on vacation behind my back. All because I didn't do what I'm telling you to do right now. If I could do it over,and I wish I could, I'd do what I'm suggesting you do).

 

 

I agree with this.

 

He told you he is taking the trip to make a decision. Go NC while he is on the trip, and tell him only to contact you when he gets back if he made the decision to leave.

 

You do not seem to want to be the OW anymore. So, the best thing to do is to not be the OW anymore.

 

After this trip if he contacts you and is leaving (or better, HAS LEFT) his wife then you will not be Other Woman, you will be the Only Woman. If on the otherhand he has decided to stay in his marriage, then you should maintain NC to start your healing.

[2sunny]

I agree with this.

 

He told you he is taking the trip to make a decision. Go NC while he is on the trip, and tell him only to contact you when he gets back if he made the decision to leave.

 

You do not seem to want to be the OW anymore. So, the best thing to do is to not be the OW anymore.

 

After this trip if he contacts you and is leaving (or better, HAS LEFT) his wife then you will not be Other Woman, you will be the Only Woman. If on the otherhand he has decided to stay in his marriage, then you should maintain NC to start your healing.

 

i agree with this... although i think he's taking the trip to smooth things over with his W - who suspects SOMETHING... so he is trying to appease her with a tip. he's trying to woo and distract her... i don't see him making the effort to take YOU on a trip... he KNWS you will just patiently wait for his return. DO NOT ALLOW him to contact you anymore and let's see what effect THAT has on him?

 

 

I want to ask him if this is the case -- is it terrible of me to do this before his trip? Should I confront him with my feelings when he returns? Before he leaves? Should I tell him that I want him to leave?

 

tell him how you feel NOW! no need to wait - you've waited on him long enough. this is YOUR decision - your body and YOU are the only one in charge of what YOU do.

 

get out. tell him today. tell him never to contact you again unless his divorce is FINAL. that way YOU can get busy living instead of just waiting around for him to have time to pay attention to you when it's convenient for him - and HIS wife's schedule.

 

he may as well go on the trip without the distraction of YOU... especially since he says he's giving it one last shot... btw - people don't take long expensive trips together when they don't intend to have a good time... he's still the liar he's always been - i bet he's pretty good at it to, eh?

[Livalike]

Thanks again to everyone for posting.

 

A couple of other things ... he is taking me on a trip. We are going to Italy in July/August for 3 weeks. Also, he told me today that their 25th wedding anniversary is in early June and that is the purpose of the trip. Apparently, the BS booked the trip as a gift to him (and as I took another look at the booking, it was made in her name + guest). Also, the ill daughter is staying with her brother and his wife during the trip. I don't mean to sound like I'm defending him, those are just the facts.

 

I was more than happy just being the OW for most of this relationship - I guess I have to figure out if that is enough for me or if I want more. I'm just really confused at this point.

[jwi71]

Hi everyone,

 

hI

 

 

This was right after he took a "disaster of a trip" to Europe with his BS. He stayed in IC for 3 months and then quit because he felt that it was only making things less clear for him.

Disaster...yeah, right.

 

I agree with Owoman on the IC...he didn't like where it was going so he quit.

 

We have had two serious discussions in the last 6 months and on both occasions he has broken down with guilt issues with respect to his daughter (she is 20 now and suffers from eating disorders and depression)

She is how old again? 20?

"For the kids" is usually an excuse abut this guy is saying "for my adult daughter"...riiiiiight.

 

and fear that his BS, who struggles with alcoholism and pain killer addiction, will relapse or OD if he leaves.

What a noble man. I mean, he stays only out of this "greater than love itself" duty to care for this poor helpless defenseless woman who would just CRUMBLE if he left. If he leaves, she'll just down a bottle of valium.

 

And maybe his daughter too.

 

What an arrogant prick thinking they couldn't possibly survive w/o him and only HE keeps both the wife and daughter...uh, sane? Alive?

 

Please. Its a load of crap so stinky I can smell it through the internet.

 

Its an excuse and the oldest one in the book. And its SO arrogant to boot.

 

I still have not told him that I want him to leave.

Yes you have. Not in so many words but you say by 1) having an A with him and 2) NOT saying "stay with her, I don't want a future with you" (and yes, he noticed).

 

I do not want to cause either of them harm so I support him taking the time he needs to to not only reach a decision, but if he chooses to leave, to leave causing the least amount of pain for his daughter and BS.

OK...put your money where your mouth is. If you don't want to HARM them, end the A NOW and immediately, permanently and irrevocably go NC NOW.

You may send an NC email/text saying you will refuse to interfere any more in his M until he produces finalized D papers. When he produces said finalized papers, you may date him.

Last week, BS saw messages from me to MM. She confronted him and he said that we are friends and they both left it that, although BS has made numerous comments since.

Now why would he do this?

Oh yeah...she (and his adult daughter) just might commit suicide.

Sound preposterous to you? Because, and I alluded to it above, that's EXACTLY what he said.

 

This made MM realize that he needed to make a decision sooner than later

Well, its highly likely he won't - its a common trait amongst WS..this appalling decision making (did it take him this long to GET married? And how do they decide which socks to wear?)

 

Did it take him long to decide to have an A?

 

See where I'm going...

 

. Yesterday MM told me that he and BS are going to Europe for 2 weeks (leaving in a week) because he has to "give it one last chance".

OK...lets start keeping count.

Per this thread...that's one. And maybe he means it. Maybe he comes back and says..."I'm done and files and produces said filed and stamped papers". And what if he doesn't?

The trip was booked just 2 days ago (he sent me the receipt and itinerary as proof). Although part of me is devastated, the other part of me is anxious for this to end one way or the other and hopeful that they will have another disaster of a trip

Why do you give all the power in your R to him? YOU decide.

I cannot help but feel, however, that MM is just stringing me along and things will never change.

My money is here.

 

I want to ask him if this is the case -- is it terrible of me to do this before his trip?

You have every right to ask. And you know it.

You aren't asking because you already know the answer.

 

Should I confront him with my feelings when he returns?

Good a time as any...

Before he leaves?

Sure...you have EVERY right to ask. Its your life too -and if you won;t stand up for you no one will.

 

Should I tell him that I want him to leave?

Even though he already knows...I would. This way he can't say "I didn't choose you because I didn't know if that's what you wanted".

I guess I'm just looking for opinions, support and advice from those in similar situations.

 

MY .02

[Livalike]

Thanks jwi71. Your post actually made me smile! I have a lot to think about. And do!

[califnan]

Hi Livalike,

 

It's not uncommon on here, that when the MM says he wants out of his marriage and wishes to be with the OW - that all of a sudden he has second thoughts or wants to see it he should give the M another chance..

 

You may start planning your life when the ink is dry on the divorce papers - If then.

[jennie-jennie]

Thanks again to everyone for posting.

 

A couple of other things ... he is taking me on a trip. We are going to Italy in July/August for 3 weeks. Also, he told me today that their 25th wedding anniversary is in early June and that is the purpose of the trip. Apparently, the BS booked the trip as a gift to him (and as I took another look at the booking, it was made in her name + guest). Also, the ill daughter is staying with her brother and his wife during the trip. I don't mean to sound like I'm defending him, those are just the facts.

 

I was more than happy just being the OW for most of this relationship - I guess I have to figure out if that is enough for me or if I want more. I'm just really confused at this point.

 

The only reason I would ever advocate NC is if you were done and over with this relationship. I can not see that you are, so I do not advocate NC in your case.

 

Two weeks with his wife to work on his marriage won't get him anywhere. It is no big deal. And he is planning to contact you during that time. LOL I bet he will be thinking about you most of the time, and unless he feels obliged to because it is a celebration of their anniversary, they probably won't be having sex either (unless they are still keeping up their sex life?).

 

Take your time and figure out whether you for now can remain happy being the OW. Your MM is likely to do a lot of back-and-forth before he is done, if he ever gets done, choosing. It is better for you to take your focus of that and decide if what you have now is something you find worth keeping.

 

I would tell him that I wanted him to leave. Why keep that a secret? But still be realistic that it will take time, if it is going to happen at all. Talk to him about your worry about being stringed along also. You two should be able to talk about anything, and I bet you are.

[2sunny]

Thanks jwi71. Your post actually made me smile! I have a lot to think about. And do!

 

stop thinking and start DOING... do for yourself - because no one else will do this for you. certainly MM is doing exactly what he wants for HIM... he gets everything just the way he wants it...

 

time for YOU to prioritize for YOU.

 

 

 

also, IF his child and his wife were as fragile as he says - HE wouldn't be in a situation like he is with YOU - I he had their BEST interest in mind. HE has HIS best interest in mind. HE never intends for them to find out - so HE keeps doing what he wants to do - which is to stay in the M he's comfy in - and willing to use and hurt you by pretending he MAY some day leave the M... which he won't - because he's already told you he won't, in a round about way - by saying that his daughter and wife are too frail and vulnerable! IF they are that frail - WHY is HE so willing to hurt them by being the cheating Dad/Husband?

 

oh ya, he doesn't intend for them to ever know about you.

 

see why we want you to get out? he's stringing you along FOR SURE.

 

call him NOW - and tell him you've decided to get busy moving forward with life - instead of waiting for HIM to make up his mind whether or not he MAY some day leave all of them to be with you. he won't. he just won't.

[Fallen Angel]

The only reason I would ever advocate NC is if you were done and over with this relationship. I can not see that you are, so I do not advocate NC in your case.

 

Two weeks with his wife to work on his marriage won't get him anywhere. It is no big deal. And he is planning to contact you during that time. LOL I bet he will be thinking about you most of the time, and unless he feels obliged to because it is a celebration of their anniversary, they probably won't be having sex either (unless they are still keeping up their sex life?).

 

Take your time and figure out whether you for now can remain happy being the OW. Your MM is likely to do a lot of back-and-forth before he is done, if he ever gets done, choosing. It is better for you to take your focus of that and decide if what you have now is something you find worth keeping.

 

I would tell him that I wanted him to leave. Why keep that a secret? But still be realistic that it will take time, if it is going to happen at all. Talk to him about your worry about being stringed along also. You two should be able to talk about anything, and I bet you are.

 

Jennie,

 

You know I am not an advocate of NC for the sake of NC, but only NC as a way of healing from the end of the relationship.

 

In this case though, I see that the MM is saying he wants to give his marriage "one more try". If my sweetheart were to say that to me, I would cut him off on the spot and give him total freedom to do just that. If he sincerely wants to see if he can repair the marriage, then he needs to put forth every effort to do that, and calling and texting back and forth with the OP is not giving it another try.

 

Thing is, I do not think he will be successful at staying NC with the OP, because I don't think he is really going to try. I think like 2sure said, he is simply trying to placate his wife long enough to be able to rev things back up with the OP when he gets back without suspicion.

 

I think her telling him that he is free to contact her after he has made his "choice" will point out what is glaringly obvious to me. That he intends to keep things exactly as they are. *shrug*

 

(Sorry, I can just not seem to buy into the "she may kill herself" line of BS. *and I don't mean betrayed spouse!*)

[jennie-jennie]

In this case though, I see that the MM is saying he wants to give his marriage "one more try". If my sweetheart were to say that to me, I would cut him off on the spot and give him total freedom to do just that. If he sincerely wants to see if he can repair the marriage, then he needs to put forth every effort to do that, and calling and texting back and forth with the OP is not giving it another try.

 

I bet he will be thinking about you most of the time, and unless he feels obliged to because it is a celebration of their anniversary, they probably won't be having sex either (unless they are still keeping up their sex life?).

 

Well, my MM used to say all the time that he needed to give his marriage one more chance and work on it. So finally I said fine, do that, and we went NC. He asked for 3 months to see if he could make his marriage work. If he succeeded, our relationship would be over forever.

 

I called him within 24 hours, and asked to stop NC, I could not bear it. He was cold as ice, which led me to keep NC, until he contacted me 6 days later. He too was unable to keep NC. What I described above was all that had happened. He had been physically there but mentally with me. He had made no steps to move closer to his wife. They certainly had had no sex.

 

He knew now that he wanted me in his life, that he could not go NC, but he still was not ready to end his marriage. The only thing NC did was bond us even closer, make us aware that we want each other in our lives even though our relationship is imperfect as it is still an affair.

 

6 days of hell, that is what NC was, and I never would have been able to maintain it if my MM had not forced it upon me. He explained later that that cold voice was his determination to keep NC, to give his marriage a try. He still feels guilty and ashamed if I mention it, although to me I know understand why he spoke to me like that.

 

For a MM to really work on his marriage I think he needs to end the relationship with his OW to never turn back, and then grieve her for the time it takes. It will most likely take half a year or a full year until he is ready to really put his effort into his marriage, knowing now that it is over with the OW. What OW who is not herself done with the extramarital relationship has the capability of keeping away for that long a time period if the NC has not been initiated by the MM?

 

NC is hell. Don't go there if you are not leaving a greater hell.

Edited May 27, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[Heather1]

Go on your own trip!! I wouldn't even mention a thing to him, tell him to have a great time. He will for sure be thinking of you the whole time, so even if you two don't speak he'll miss you a ton. I went on a trip w/ my H & couldn't stop thinking about OM.

 

I'll tell you this about staying for the kids...it's true, when my parents split I thrived. I was a mess when they were together, unhappily ever after. I got this incredible Mom I didn't even know I had, she was always so unhappy. What he's doing is called enabling.

 

You'll be fine, don't worry. If you truly want more when he gets back, then there's a few people here who can tell you how to do that. I have no idea.

[jthorne]

The OP has already established that she wants more.

Practically everyone here have concluded that the trip is to placate the wife, and no decision will be made. Thus, the OP is indeed being strung along and there is no more.

So I'm confused why she's being encouraged to remain the OW when that's not what she wants.

[bittersweet memories]

 

For a MM to really work on his marriage I think he needs to end the relationship with his OW to never turn back, and then grieve her for the time it takes. It will most likely take half a year or a full year until he is ready to really put his effort into his marriage, knowing now that it is over with the OW. What OW who is not herself done with the extramarital relationship has the capability of keeping away for that long a time period if the NC has not been initiated by the MM?

 

NC is hell. Don't go there if you are not leaving a greater hell.

 

How would you know you never done it with you MM. It also depends if he really ever loved the OW.

Edited May 27, 2010 by bittersweet memories

[jthorne]

How would you know you never done it. It also depends if he really ever loved the OW.

I'm a little confused about this too. I guess people are different. It took me about three months to decide to end it for good with xMM. Once I did, it took less than a month to move on. So I'd say it took about 4 months total to get over someone I'd known for close to 20 years. People can do anything they want to if they really set their minds to it.