2sure Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 I have to come back to something because I honestly feel it may be important and is being overlooked. It sounds like its possible that, given her age and when you married... That her best window of opportunity for pregnancy occurred at the same time as your drinking and emotional problems. Yes, you have changed...but she cant turn back that clock.
carhill Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 OP, did you have a 'drinking problem' when she married you? Were you jobless? Homeless? She had already birthed two children with someone so she knew the realities of how those children came to be, the circumstances attending, both good and bad, and her psychology regarding the dynamic. She was experienced and aware and a mature lady when she married you. She knew what she was signing on for when she signed the marriage license. Now, hold her to it. She can handle it. She's a big girl. Get moving
KikiW Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 I am not sure if I missed any of these answers, but I have a question for OP... When you and she got together, was there a SPECIFIC discussion where the two of you sat down and you said "I want children with you." and she said "I want that too."? Not lovey-dovey talk like "you'd be an awesome mother to my children" and her saying "I like the sound of that"... I am talking about solid agreements - "I want children or there's no point in going forward with the relationship." and she said "yes, absolutely." I ask because me and my SO have had conversations where the talk turned to potential future children. I am open to it, but I see potential problems as well. I am 36, which isn't "old" but it's stepping into the pregnancy danger zone. We are both split with our previous spouses and are in the process of rebuilding finances, so we don't have a lot of money right now. We live in a 2 bedroom apartment where the second BR is occupied half the week by my daughter, and the summer by my daughter AND his daughter. Bringing a baby into things right now is not advisable. Looking forward, I do not see a more ideal time for at a minimum 2 years (if everything just fell right into place, best scenario ever) but realistically closer to 4, maybe 5 years. At that point I am 40 or older. I have reservations about being pregnant then. SO's daughter will be an adult, mine will be in high school. My health will no longer be optimal. Various other concerns as well. However, I made a very specific point of asking my SO, "If at some point we become more financially stable and we have a large enough home to accommodate a baby, but I feel I am past my 'prime', would you be ok with not having any more children?" - he said "I would be disappointed because I think we would make great parents together, but I am marrying you for YOU, not so I can have a baby." So maybe you should decide what's more important to you - her, or a baby?
Author agonizing over kids Posted May 27, 2010 Author Posted May 27, 2010 Hey, I was never homeless and was always gamefully employed. My drinking was not extreme or out of order with my peers, but perhaps best described as incompatable with her unspoken expectations and inappropriate for my station in life. In retrospect, I should have curtailed it earlier. I didn't know the size of the impact it was having on her or on the her decision at the time. Neither did she. Before we got married, we had an explicit and detailed conversation about having more kids. I think my choices are clear. We are about to start MC again. I'm sure it will be helpful or at least enlightening. Thanks again to everyone.
Cinnamon2000 Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 Yes. It is now firmly and openly on the table. How is she with it? Is she okay with you leaving? Is she sad because of you might be leaving or the money not coming in?
SarahRose Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 Hey, I was never homeless and was always gamefully employed. My drinking was not extreme or out of order with my peers, but perhaps best described as incompatable with her unspoken expectations and inappropriate for my station in life. In retrospect, I should have curtailed it earlier. I didn't know the size of the impact it was having on her or on the her decision at the time. Neither did she. Before we got married, we had an explicit and detailed conversation about having more kids. I think my choices are clear. We are about to start MC again. I'm sure it will be helpful or at least enlightening. Thanks again to everyone. Let me say that having children is highly overrated. Do you really think she has an infinite time to have children? I really don't get why you didn't try the first year or two if you were going to do it. What if you had tried and found out you couldn't have children, not her but you were sterile? I'm a lot older than my husband and I told him if he wanted a baby then it had to happen within a 2 year time frame or it just wasn't going to happen. The 2 years have passed and he is fine with not having any. Besides, when I croak, he can marry some dingbat 18 year old and have about 5 and then divorce and pay child support on them and get to have that experience lol. I really hate men who think of women as interchangeable. If one is defective just trade it in for a new one. That is what your attitude is. You married for better or worse and I really think some IC for you is in order. I have some friends in their early 30s who are trying for a baby and it really doesn't look like they'll be able to have one without a lot of medical help but I don't see him running off to find a new model. If fact I know plenty of people who couldn't have any at all and they didn't leave their spouse over it.
Cinnamon2000 Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 I really hate men who think of women as interchangeable. If one is defective just trade it in for a new one. That is what your attitude is. You married for better or worse and I really think some IC for you is in order. I have some friends in their early 30s who are trying for a baby and it really doesn't look like they'll be able to have one without a lot of medical help but I don't see him running off to find a new model. If fact I know plenty of people who couldn't have any at all and they didn't leave their spouse over it. You're confusing the issue. It is not that she can't physically have a baby. If that's the case, it's different. The issue is, to have a kid or two, was part of the deal or consideration when entering into this marriage. One can argue that whether or not to live in an apartment or a house is substantial or not, if it's not previously discussed, but one cannot simply argue that having or not having a kid is not a substantial when it comes to marriage.
SarahRose Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 You're confusing the issue. It is not that she can't physically have a baby. If that's the case, it's different. The issue is, to have a kid or two, was part of the deal or consideration when entering into this marriage. One can argue that whether or not to live in an apartment or a house is substantial or not, if it's not previously discussed, but one cannot simply argue that having or not having a kid is not a substantial when it comes to marriage. She was 37 at the time they got married. She may not have been able to conceive then. Here it is 6.5 years later and OP is on here whinging about a broken promise. She is 43 now. If he really wanted to try for a baby and knowing her age when they got married, they really should have tried right away. They didn't have the luxury of saying not ready yet. He has a drinking issue and I wouldn't be having a baby in that situation either. Is OP willing to stay home and be full time caretaker of a child?
aroma Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 To the OP: Like your wife, I changed my mind about having kids after I got married. Husband and I had agreed we would have but after year 2 I decided I wouldn't have any. It causes so much stress in the relationship so I totally understand you. My heart goes out to you. There's no compromise when it comes to kids. It's clear: either you want them or you don't (even though there might be a period of doubt and questioning which is normal). If you really want kids of your own, and it's a big wish of yours, then there's no way out but to divorce ASAP and find a woman who you'll fall in love with and give you kids. Staying with her will just put you through more agony and you're marriage will eventually deteriorate. You're 39 and even though you can have kids until you're 80, my guess is you don't want to be 70 when your kid graduates from college. So time is running out for you too. oh, and no amount of marriage counseling will solve your "problem", so save your money and time. By what you say, it seems she won't change her mind, so what do you expect to achieve with professional help? Force her to give you a child? Or change your mind and become happily childfree? No amount of marriage counseling will make you change your mind if your deadset on having children. It's not a disease to be treated. It's just an unfortunate situation where somewhere along the way she changed her mind on a very important issue and you didn't. Just ask yourself how much you really want to be a father and if you're doing it for the right reasons. Good luck!
Krytie TV Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 This marriage is now built on false pretenses. In my mind, you would have my full support if you thought your answer was to leave your wife for another (maybe even younger) woman that wants children. It wouldn't make you a bad person. She misrepresented to you about one of the most important things for an adult.
carhill Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 I won't speak for the OP, but my primary reason for marrying (anyone) was to start a family. I would have been incensed at the dynamic recounted here and the results of my anger wouldn't have been pleasant *at all*. One perspective.
janie423 Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 At the time you married her she was 37, which was borderline at best in terms of fertility. Did you not know that fertility declines rapidly after that age? At 43, she is very unlikely to conceive and even if she does, the chance for chromosomal abnormalities is quite high. I feel like the window of opportunity for a biological child with this woman has passed. HOWEVER, you do have the option of egg donation, and that child would be yours biologically. But your spouse must certainly consent to the procedure, and if she does not, you certainly have a right to feel cheated. Just my opinion.
GamerGirl Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 Sorry, but if my SO changed his mind about kids, it would be a dealbreaker for me. Medical issues are a different story. I wouldn't walk away for that, but if the WANT for children disappears, then so will I. I see too many women getting pregnant and forcing the issue on their men, and then complain when they turn out to be crappy husbands and fathers. And you really can't force a woman to become pregnant. If she doesn't want it, it's not gonna happen. If you REALLY want a bio child before you die and she does not, then it's time to go find someone who does. If you guys don't see eye to eye, this will cause resentment to build and the relationship will never be as good as it should be....
Krytie TV Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 At the time you married her she was 37, which was borderline at best in terms of fertility. WHAT?! I had no idea women became virtually incapable of pregnancy at 37! Good thing I got to my wife at 34 before her eggs shriveled up and died. This issue has nothing to do with fertility issues. She baited and switched. They never even got to the trying stage from what I can tell.
Eve Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 As tough as it is, she has made her decision. Love what you have or give it up. Thats it really. All I know is that I am SO glad that I didnt give in and have a child when I turned 36. The child would have been loved .. but.. .. Kids are a worry. Hope you work it out because realistically, if you are unhappy now there is no real say that having a child will make you happier. Harsh as it may sound, the issues with alcohol that you have had do not place you well in the whole child rearing thing. Seriously, dont get too romantic about having children. They are more work than play.. especially if you have an addictive personality. Take care, Eve xx
janie423 Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 WHAT?! I had no idea women became virtually incapable of pregnancy at 37! Good thing I got to my wife at 34 before her eggs shriveled up and died. This issue has nothing to do with fertility issues. She baited and switched. They never even got to the trying stage from what I can tell. My point is, at 37, she had a better chance of pregnancy than at 43. The issue of bate-and-switch became less relevant and the issue of infertility became more relevant as she aged. So they should have dealt with the issue then (when she was 37 and age-related infertility was at a minimum) rather than now (when age-related infertility trumps the issue).
SarahRose Posted May 29, 2010 Posted May 29, 2010 My point is, at 37, she had a better chance of pregnancy than at 43. The issue of bate-and-switch became less relevant and the issue of infertility became more relevant as she aged. So they should have dealt with the issue then (when she was 37 and age-related infertility was at a minimum) rather than now (when age-related infertility trumps the issue). I agree. I wonder if he is really just unhappy and wants out and is looking for an excuse?
linwood Posted May 29, 2010 Posted May 29, 2010 I agree. I wonder if he is really just unhappy and wants out and is looking for an excuse? He`s probably unhappy because she ran the bait and switch on him. He doesn`t need an excuse, she`s given him one. I`d be gone. The ONLY advantage to marriage as a male is the ability to build a family on a committed foundation.
janie423 Posted May 29, 2010 Posted May 29, 2010 I agree. I wonder if he is really just unhappy and wants out and is looking for an excuse? This makes sense, because given her age at the time of marriage, they should have attempted conception at that time, without delay. I wonder why he did not address the issue then. At this point, his bate-and-switch assertion, 7 years later, is a moot point. I think the courts might see it that way as well. In any case if he is unhappy he should get out and start over. Irreconcilable differences.
dazzle22 Posted May 29, 2010 Posted May 29, 2010 We all have a fantasy of how we hope our lives, single or married, will play out, but as the saying goes, "life is what happens to you while you are making other plans". Plenty of people say their vows and run off together in the hopes of spending many years together, only to have one stricken with cancer, or die in a car accident and cut short the dream. People also seem to think they are entitled to perfectly healthy children, and THAT is also not a given, and a real concern with older mothers. What if you talked your wife into doing this and then you had a Down's child, autistic child or cerebral palsy child.?? I also have never thought that one's own emptiness, illustrated by drinking and depression has ever been a good reason to have kids. When I see people break down about not having kids I wonder why they are thinking they would be a good parent given such unstable behavior, and how they are expecting someone else to fill that hole inside themselves.
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