doniker Posted January 26, 2004 Posted January 26, 2004 I am so sick of seeing that thread "he is cheating on me with porn". If a man in a commited relationship does not touch another person in a sexual way there is no infidelity in my book.
Stone Posted January 26, 2004 Posted January 26, 2004 I agree, men are more visual than ladies, i think some ladies are just insecure about themselves So they make a big fuss about their men looking at other women.
Arabess Posted January 26, 2004 Posted January 26, 2004 I agree. I think unless you take her out for beer and some serious sex.....you've done well. A 'look see' and a hot soapy shower doesn't qualify as an affair.....not in MY book anyway.
tphillip Posted January 26, 2004 Posted January 26, 2004 Originally posted by doniker I am so sick of seeing that thread "he is cheating on me with porn". If a man in a commited relationship does not touch another person in a sexual way there is no infidelity in my book. I agree that no-one can cheat on another with porn. I disagree that you need to have sex to cheat though. I do agree that there is such a thing as "emotional infidelity". We can dicker over where the line is with that phrase, but I believe it can do as much as, if not more than, an affair.
moimeme Posted January 26, 2004 Posted January 26, 2004 I don't think you can have 'emotional infidelity' with a picture or a film. It requires interaction between two 3D humans.
Arabess Posted January 26, 2004 Posted January 26, 2004 tphillip, I think you are right. I wasn't thinking about those kinds of relationships or the cyber ones....which I guess is the same kind of deal. I'll retract the 'beer and live sex' portion....
dyermaker Posted January 27, 2004 Posted January 27, 2004 I'm sick of porn threads, don't we have enough?
Thinkalot Posted January 27, 2004 Posted January 27, 2004 Oh no I don't think so Dyermaker...I'm quite sure there'll be many more to ..ah...come.
moimeme Posted January 27, 2004 Posted January 27, 2004 Nah. Let's have lots more. Anyway, Dyer, you know what'll happen if porn isn't the topic of the day.... we'll be back to 'is my gf pregnant' every third post
Thinkalot Posted January 27, 2004 Posted January 27, 2004 I have also done quite a good job, as have many others, at keeping the "obsessed with my partner's ex" theme alive for some time now... lol! At least I've been trying to offer some lessons and insights on actually getting over that particular one tho!
meanon Posted January 27, 2004 Posted January 27, 2004 I keep looking at these porn threads and thinking - when will I have the energy to contribute to this discussion -answer - not now Is it just me or have the arguments become ridiculously polarised? It's like a parody of a dicsussion on porn - a punch and judy show where they keep saying "OH YES HE IS; OH NO HE ISN'T" Nite nite LSers
dyermaker Posted January 27, 2004 Posted January 27, 2004 I want a pat on the head. AprilFool dismissed me as not actually listening to her, and just wanting to argue. Rather than argue about it, I just figured my advice wasn't wanted, and I haven't contributed since. I took the high road ladies and gentlemen, and now I need a cookie
jester Posted January 27, 2004 Posted January 27, 2004 cheating with porn is IMPOSSIBLE I can envision a porn infidelity scenario: H has an intense fascination for, and sexual attraction to, porn starlet Jena Jameson. He watches her movies and masturbates every night in the TV room while the wife slumbers upstairs in the "marital" bedroom. He loves Jena's tight body, her breasts, legs, hips,and perfect ass. All he wants to do is f##k Jena--again and again. His wife of 15 years is so boring--both to look at, and in bed. The marital love light is off. Hubby wants Jena and the perfect f**k she represents in his fevered, obsessed brain. In fact, he masturbates to Jena's videos knowing that his wife expects them to make love in a few hours. He doesn't care: hubby loves Jena. Unfaithful? Disloyal? Ask the wife...
dyermaker Posted January 27, 2004 Posted January 27, 2004 That's a pornography addiction and possible sexual compulsivity, not cheating.
jester Posted January 27, 2004 Posted January 27, 2004 Hubby's not addicted to porn. He really loves Jena. In fact, in his masturbatory fantasies Jena and he are having a torrid affair. Cheating need not always involve flesh-on-flesh in this video game, Matrix like world more and more of us are inhabiting. In fact, limiting an affair or cheating to flesh-on-flesh encounters seems quaint, almost old fashioned. This is a brave new virtual world, dyer.
meanon Posted January 27, 2004 Posted January 27, 2004 OK I have woken up enough to attempt it: Maybe it's not cheating but whether it's seriously damaging depends entirely on the context in which it occurs. So in Jester's scenario it's fairly catastrophic whereas if a couple are sharing porn as part of their intimacy together it's fine. Those are two extremes and most situations will be somewhere in the middle. When I was young I hated porn. As a student men would wind down their car windows and shout at me on my bike "I could give you a better ride than that love", as a temp in offices we were fair game for all the groping male execs with porn calendars on their walls, working restaurants and bars - ditto. Older men/men with power objectified women, they were crude/predatory, they were dedicated players in the battle of the sexes. They denigrated women. Porn to me was just another reminer of such denigration. People who have a strong reaction to porn usually do so for a reason. It may be insecurity but it may also be that it's an illustration of a fundamental lack of respect their partner has for women - them included. Now a days I know much nicer men, I am treated as an equal and porn is quite interesting. LOL reading this back - far too much information!!!!! But sometimes it's easier to use personal experience to illustrate a point.
dyermaker Posted January 27, 2004 Posted January 27, 2004 Originally posted by jester Hubby's not addicted to porn. He really loves Jena. In fact, in his masturbatory fantasies Jena and he are having a torrid affair. Cheating need not always involve flesh-on-flesh in this video game, Matrix like world more and more of us are inhabiting. In fact, limiting an affair or cheating to flesh-on-flesh encounters seems quaint, almost old fashioned. This is a brave new virtual world, dyer. You're wrong, dr. jester. Love cannot happen through fiction, you can't be in love with a character in a movie. You equate lust to love, you have before, and you are still wrong. You describe, without a doubt, a sexually compulsive SYMPTOM. The internet didn't change pornography, it just made it easier to distribute.
moimeme Posted January 27, 2004 Posted January 27, 2004 One would think the 39 years were reversed. Dyer, are you really Gandalf?
DerangedAngel Posted January 27, 2004 Posted January 27, 2004 Love cannot happen through fiction, you can't be in love with a character in a movie. But can't you think you are ('you' meaning someone harboring intense, unhealthy feelings bordering obsession - that they might interpret as love)? Even if a rational person would say they couldn't love the person in the movie, the irrational person might still believe they do... which makes the situation turn into a twisted case of infidelity, no? Just a thought. -Deranged
dyermaker Posted January 27, 2004 Posted January 27, 2004 Originally posted by DerangedAngel But can't you think you are ('you' meaning someone harboring intense, unhealthy feelings bordering obsession - that they might interpret as love)? Even if a rational person would say they couldn't love the person in the movie, the irrational person might still believe they do... which makes the situation turn into a twisted case of infidelity, no? That's sexual compulsivity disorder! The case jester described was of a sexually compulsive man, not a cheater. It's totally unhealthy, I'm not defending it, but it's not infidelity. Infidelity is a choice, a decision someone makes. The 'irrational' behavior that you discuss is actually part of a treatable disorder.
DerangedAngel Posted January 27, 2004 Posted January 27, 2004 Infidelity is a choice, a decision someone makes. I'm trying to understand this, so try and put up with me. I'm totally not saying you're wrong, I just want to thoroughly understand your point. Is this like pleading insanity in a murder trial (wow, that might have been a huge leap)? If you feel 'romantic love' for another due to your irrational line of thinking... it is excusable. What if it is physical cheating, brought about by irrational thinking, then? Is that where it is different? -Deranged
jester Posted January 27, 2004 Posted January 27, 2004 Infidelity is a choice, a decision someone makes. The 'irrational' behavior that you discuss is actually part of a treatable disorder. So free will determines whether cheating is established. Using your 'free choice" model, dyer, If I freely decide to rent a DVD, plop it in my DVD player, watch Jena screw and masturbate to her image, I'm cheating. On the other hand, assume I have a sex addiction, which compels me to f**k any woman who makes herself available to me. Since I have a sexual compulsion--one that negates my free will--I'm not cheating even though I'm f**king the daylights out of some woman in a hotel room. The hallmark of cheating is not "free will," dyer, it's disloyalty. When hubby in my hypothetical elected to masturbate to Jena's image, rather than make love to his wife, he was cheating. So I stand with those women on LoveShack, many of whom have been shouted down, who have dared to link porn with cheating. Sometimes, my friend, context, experience and intuition do matter.
dyermaker Posted January 27, 2004 Posted January 27, 2004 Originally posted by DerangedAngel If you feel 'romantic love' for another due to your irrational line of thinking... it is excusable. What if it is physical cheating, brought about by irrational thinking, then? Is that where it is different? If you feel romantic love due to your irrational line of thinking, it's not any more excusable than if you're thinking lucidly. It's just that if the feeling presents itself as a symptom of a sexual compulsivity disorder (as the jester situation is) than it's treatable. Treatable, not excusable, that's all I'm saying.
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