Was I crazy to think I could be compatible with a Middle Easterner?

[nowomanocry]

I met a guy that I initially did not give a second thought to as a potential bf. I went out because he was cute and sweet and I didn't want to reject him. I know, terrible.

 

But then, he opened his mouth and I became attracted to him as a person. He has some of the same beliefs and values that I have. He says many of the things that I say. I'm not used to hearing myself being repeated back at me.

 

However, he let too long of a time pass between calls (3 weeks while out of town) and I gave up and went out with another guy. When he came back, I didn't plan on seeing him again but someone told me to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

I've told him that I went out with the other guy, to which he became pretty upset and told me he couldn't trust me. We haven't mentioned exclusivity (which is why I brought it up.) But somewhere in his mind, I was wrong and he looked at me with a pretty judgemental air. He subtly, but deeply offended me. I haven't been intimate with either.

 

Now he's not talking to me. I know I'll probably hear from him again, but I feel like an idiot. There's a reason that Western women don't date men from that region. The respect is one sided. I thought he would be different. He seemed so caring, attentive and emotionally available. Unlike most of the men I've dated in the past decade.

 

I'm utterly disappointed that I went out of my comfort zone and gave something a shot only to find that there are stereotypes for a reason.

 

You haven't done anything wrong. It is not your fault or problem. He has the ball now, it is upto him whether he can live with your values or not.

 

ME men are exactly what you wrote (caring etc.) but there's the other side as well. They have values coming from their religious backgrounds. If it floats your boat fine, if it doesn't than you should quit. Because you can't change people.

 

Last, I feel like you are a bit upset and not happy with his values and how he is behaving (which I find childish honestly speaking), if that the case, simply cut contact. There are loads of other males out there.

 

Enjoy life, don't make big fusses out of nothing

 

Hope this helps a bit.

[daphne]

A girl might prefer not to tell a guy who is into her about anything sexual that involves other males. I believe there is no male of any nationality who is fine to hear that his girl had stuff with other males in her past or present.

I would not even mention your future expectations related to other males.

 

If you say a guy about another guy, he would hear/interpret your story totally different than you understand it. Perhaps, he is wrong, but there is no way to explain him the situation from your point.

 

He clearly interpeted my story incorrectly. He thought I only told him because it didn't work out with the other guy. I was telling him because I was ok with being exclusive as long as it was mutual. I dug him.

 

As for the other guy, there was nothing physical remotely happening. It was casual and basically platonic if truth be known.

[daphne]

They were casually dating....he didn't call for three weeks....that, in early relationship time is about 3 CENTURIES....He sounds like the very jealous type and you are well rid of him.

 

I wish I had had more experience with him to know for sure...

[daphne]

Guys are babies who want the best of both worlds.

 

Touchée. I was at my tailor and a baby boy was screaming and crying. I mused that they never really outgrow that do they...

[daphne]

For what it's worth, I'm a Syrian American and what you just mentioned really doesn't have anything to do with his ethnicity/culture/whatever, but more so a severe lack of communication. Middle easterners that abide by their culture don't really 'date'. They go through a courtship process usually chaperoned by both parties folks. The very fact he was dating you proved he was outside that premise. Also, I bet you didn't know the majority of arab cultures (not the radical saudi/etc views so readily perceived via the media) gave women equal rights to men before the US did. They don't all cover up - Miss America is a Lebanese Muslim! The more you know.

 

I think the fact that you jumped on him about his race so quickly just shows a bit of a tastelessness on your end, not to mention the very topic of this entire thread - placing judgment on an entire group of people due to a lack of communication on his/your end.

 

Maybe you didn't mean to deliver it so offensively, but the entire tone and title of your thread is just disconcerting and displays a lack of social depth on your end.

 

Sivok,

 

You are making a lot of assumptions there and seem to be a little sensitive. Firstly, I never said he was Arab. Secondly, he grew up in Europe. Also, the reason I was initially uncomfortable was that I thought he was too young and I didn't really want to deal with major religious/cultural differences. If I had had that much of a problem with his ethnicity, as you suggest, I promise you I would have politely found an excuse not to go. But he was smoking hot and sweet.

 

I don't think I've ever jumped on him about race. Can I admit that perhaps I wasn't yet adjusted to the idea of dating someone who wasn't white? Yes. It was a new thing for me. Does that mean it was a deal breaker? Not yet. His childish behavior was.

[daphne]

So how true is it about banging Western women and then going home and marrying a nice girl from their own culture with parental approval?

 

Lol. Good point. I found out that his siblings have coupled up with westerners tho...

[daphne]

I agree he was into you. I also think if he was western he would have stayed in close touch those 3 weeks. The idea that you will pine for him and sit by the phone at home and alone is a bit ridiculous.

 

If you want exclusivity you pay attention to the other person. A western male typically gets that. QUOTE]

 

Yep. My last ex left town for work a few days after we met and he called the day after he got there.

 

Fwiw, this guy had a sort of possibly valid excuse. I didn't buy it tho.

[daphne]

You haven't done anything wrong. It is not your fault or problem. He has the ball now, it is upto him whether he can live with your values or not.

 

ME men are exactly what you wrote (caring etc.) but there's the other side as well. They have values coming from their religious backgrounds. If it floats your boat fine, if it doesn't than you should quit. Because you can't change people.

 

Last, I feel like you are a bit upset and not happy with his values and how he is behaving (which I find childish honestly speaking), if that the case, simply cut contact. There are loads of other males out there.

 

Enjoy life, don't make big fusses out of nothing

 

Hope this helps a bit.

 

Thanks for your post. I know I didn't do anything wrong, but it didn't stop me from feeling bad that he was so judgemental.

 

He's not religious at all. However, the cultural values are instilled in him to a certain extent. I think I'm seeing that he's more conservative than he suggested all of these weeks. If I'm upset, it's because I feel like he's been holding back that side because he knows that many American women are very liberal.

 

I guess the only reason I'm upset is because I cared and felt he had heart, and we did have some of the same core values. And that's so tough to find.

[nowomanocry]

Thanks for your post. I know I didn't do anything wrong, but it didn't stop me from feeling bad that he was so judgemental.

 

He's not religious at all. However, the cultural values are instilled in him to a certain extent. I think I'm seeing that he's more conservative than he suggested all of these weeks. If I'm upset, it's because I feel like he's been holding back that side because he knows that many American women are very liberal.

 

I guess the only reason I'm upset is because I cared and felt he had heart, and we did have some of the same core values. And that's so tough to find.

 

Hi again Daphne

 

You shouldn't feel bad over him being judgemental. Cultural differences also is a great barrier in front of being with a ME man. Yes indeed, he may have hid his real face and that proves he's not honest with you don't you think?

 

Nothing can kick off unless you meet at some basics but that is not great deal I think, you can find someone better suiting you. However, you should not forget that a perfect match is almost impossible.

 

If I were in your shoes I would call it quits while you not so intimate with him.

 

Good luck

[tincanman99]

I have quite a few ME friends of both sexes. Many ME women will only date western men because ME men expect certain things.

 

The men tend to be hypocrites. I am not generalizing but am just stating my experience. They will indeed sleep with and play with many western women but when it comes time to get married they go get an arranged marriage. End of story.

 

Many times on the surface they are charming, caring and what not. Once involved with them they are hyper possessive and their cultural background kicks in big time. They become hyper conservative, dont want you having any male friends and you are supposed to defer to their judgement.

 

Leave it alone and walk away now. If he is behaving like this now and you have only dated him once, imagine what he will be like later.

[Els]

Culture defines a significant portion of a person's behaviour, because culture is usually paired with upbringing and environmental exposure when young. With that said, yes, for most western women, I believe most ME men, or even Asian-born-and-bred men for that matter, are not compatible. I say this as an Asian woman living in an Asian country, which has a significant Middle Eastern culture influence, as they share religions. The mindsets of many men here regarding females, especially the older ones, or those brought up in traditional families, are deplorable.

[Woggle]

Culture defines a significant portion of a person's behaviour, because culture is usually paired with upbringing and environmental exposure when young. With that said, yes, for most western women, I believe most ME men, or even Asian-born-and-bred men for that matter, are not compatible. I say this as an Asian woman living in an Asian country, which has a significant Middle Eastern culture influence, as they share religions. The mindsets of many men here regarding females, especially the older ones, or those brought up in traditional families, are deplorable.

 

You can call it deplorable but I wonder if they have better luck and success with their marriages than western men do.

[alphamale]

I thought he would be different.

all men worth dating are pretty much the same

[Els]

You can call it deplorable but I wonder if they have better luck and success with their marriages than western men do.

 

If you define success as 'staying together', then yes, they probably do. Although many women stay for their children and the financial support instead of the right reasons. For someone who considers it deplorable that a woman should use a man as a financial crutch, Woggle, I imagine you would not call that success. An important dynamic in traditional ME/Asian culture is that the man provides as well as leads.

[Woggle]

If you define success as 'staying together', then yes, they probably do. Although many women stay for their children and the financial support instead of the right reasons. For someone who considers it deplorable that a woman should use a man as a financial crutch, Woggle, I imagine you would not call that success. An important dynamic in traditional ME/Asian culture is that the man provides as well as leads.

 

I have no issue with the provider role as long as the woman plays her role as well. My beef is that many western women want the man to do his part but she is unwilling to do her part. Either you are traditional or you are not but don't do it halfway. In these cultures the woman does her part and while it might seem sexist to your average western woman the family and community structure is much tighter. I think that people brought up in the me me me mentality of the modern west can't begin to understand these cultures and should not judge them.

[Els]

I do live in those cultures so I believe that if anyone has the right to judge them, it is me. If done properly with the man as the provider and the woman as the homemaker, it is indeed a fair trade. However, very often it is open to exploit, and the women are trapped inside an abusive marriage, unable to leave because they are uneducated and unable to support themselves and the children. Also, it does not justify the societal sexist norms such as male children being treated better, the women serving other men (who do not provide for them and wouldn't give two ****s about them if their husband died) at large family gatherings, and female children being denied an inheritance.

[You'reasian]

Woggle and Elswyth are looking at opposite sides of the coin. Woggle looking at the stability of the household in traditional-role relationships; Elswyth looking at the possible down side and exploitation of women's roles.

 

Both of you agree that traditional male and female roles can work.

 

When marriages are arranged, the female has the least leverage in choosing her mate and could find herself at the down side, however talking with some women in arranged marriages, many are actually content and not being exploited.

 

When marriage is a choice, the woman often requires more investment from the man, a dowry, to show that he has the means to provide for her.

 

Lets not forget some women evolve in these cultures to become vicious, cunning and smart with the men they are with because of the nature of traditional family roles...

[Els]

I agree partially with your post, YA. Singaporean women, for one, are superb examples of women who shamelessly take advantage of the last vestiges of traditional marriage roles. But no, I'm not only looking at marriages in particular. What I am saying is that Asian society is sexist in general, not only in terms of 'traditional roles within a marriage', and that there is no justification or balance for any of that. And that it brings about the twisted mindset that many (thankfully, not all) Asian men have.

 

I have no problem with 'traditional roles within a marriage', but I do have a problem with 'traditional societal norms that depict women as property'.

[You'reasian]

I agree partially with your post, YA. Singaporean women, for one, are superb examples of women who shamelessly take advantage of the last vestiges of traditional marriage roles. But no, I'm not only looking at marriages in particular. What I am saying is that Asian society is sexist in general, not only in terms of 'traditional roles within a marriage', and that there is no justification or balance for any of that. And that it brings about the twisted mindset that many (thankfully, not all) Asian men have.

 

I have no problem with 'traditional roles within a marriage', but I do have a problem with 'traditional societal norms that depict women as property'.

 

What does traditional societal norms that depict women as property mean? I ask to get a more concrete definition. For some women being in a committed, monogamous relationship itself is too controlling, whereas for some it actually requires certain triggers or indicators to fall in that category.

 

Define Asian lol

[Els]

In certain ME states, a woman cannot drive, cannot work, and needs a husband's or father's consent at ANY age for a great many things. That depicts a woman as 'property'.

 

As a less extreme and more relevant example, in many Asian countries, most men are free to do whatever they wish as soon as they attain financial independence, whereas parents are still very controlling with daughters until they marry, at which point they 'wash their hands of them'.

 

Basically, anything that puts one gender at a non-compensated disadvantage, should never be considered as a good thing. If a woman finds that being in a committed relationship is controlling, I don't see what that has to do with sexist cultures, unless the men in that culture are free to be polygamous and the women are not.

Edited May 30, 2010 by Elswyth