somedude81 Posted May 25, 2010 Posted May 25, 2010 2) Does she Like me? - well you have to make her like you... Ask a girl out show her a good time... kiss... stop looking for the mythical sure thing... most girls won't like you until you've atleast flirted with them and made some moves... and even if a girl does like you there is no way to know. 4) Girls make it clear they like you and either ask you out or do something that makes you ask them out - No, girls arn't going to make it clear... so you need to ask them out... don't expect them to ask you or do something really clear like "boy I wish some one would ask me out.. Hmm, pretty interesting. So a girl won't like you unless you flirt with her and made moves. Then even if you do manage to get her to like you, you aren't going to even know that she does. 10) ASK GIRLS OUT --- Most guys don't even ask girls out... they just come on here and complain So regardless if you think she likes you or not, you have to ask her out? Then it all comes down to making a bunch of wild shots and hope you hit something. If you do manage to land a shot, you need to go for a the kill with a kiss, or else she'd bound away.
Els Posted May 25, 2010 Posted May 25, 2010 So... why did all my relationships start as friends, I wonder? Oh wait, I'm a woman and my personal experiences don't count I suppose, even though there is a man on the other side of the relationship. Maybe I'm living on another planet? Or I'm a hermaphrodite? Hmm. Taking a woman's advice on how to get women isn't at all like catching fish, for goodness' sakes. It's just like taking a man's advice on how to appeal to other men so that they'd ask us out. Or would you say that men have no idea what they like either? In that light, we should have single-gender message boards where all the men can give advice to fellow men, and the women can give advice to single women, since we wouldn't need each others' opinions, ey?
janie423 Posted May 25, 2010 Posted May 25, 2010 It's still a phrase that a man hears from many women. And it still adds fuel to my argument that a man should not get dating advice from women. Good analogy, but they still won't listen. She and her alias janie423 will still argue that women know about picking up other women better than players. (1) Guys aren't asking for the innerworkings of a woman's mind and heart. We're asking how to catch them. Fishermen don't care about the innerworkings of a fish's mind and heart, he wants to know how to catch them. The best person to ask is the catcher, not the fish. Thank you. (2) Women dyke out all the time. It's old news. A bisexual chick getting a straight chick to make out isn't some big accomplishment; especially not in today's world. (3) A man is never forced to be friend zoned. That's what I'm saying. (1) but unless you know the "innerworkings" you won't catch them, that is my point. so now you compare it to catching fish? (2) oh really, you have spoken to every woman and can attest that ALL of them do this, (and there you go with the labels) . . . (3) you might actually have a shred of truth here, but if a woman is not attracted to a guy physically, usually he is friendzoned beyond his control.
Engadget Posted May 25, 2010 Posted May 25, 2010 So... why did all my relationships start as friends, I wonder? Oh wait, I'm a woman and my personal experiences don't count I suppose, even though there is a man on the other side of the relationship. Maybe I'm living on another planet? Or I'm a hermaphrodite? Hmm. Taking a woman's advice on how to get women isn't at all like catching fish, for goodness' sakes. It's just like taking a man's advice on how to appeal to other men so that they'd ask us out. Or would you say that men have no idea what they like either? In that light, we should have single-gender message boards where all the men can give advice to fellow men, and the women can give advice to single women, since we wouldn't need each others' opinions, ey? Well what he means is, if you're looking to date a woman don't try to be her friend first, because it usually doesn't work. I've had relationships develop out of friendship too, but he's right.
gypsy_nicky Posted May 25, 2010 Posted May 25, 2010 7) Making friends with girls will lead to dating - No, if you are single you need to be flirty and romantic with any girl you find attractive as long as there isn't some good reason you shouldn't be such as dating/married to a friend... work ect... You can't befriend your way into some ones life and then expect it to magicaly become romantic... I agree with everything you said except this one. A lot of girls over time will actually fall for you when you've been friends with them for a while (granted your not fugly). Its actually surprising because you would least expect it and you both have the mindset on being friends. The problem with guys trying to be 'friends' with girls first is they somehow seem 'friendly' and at the same time 'devious' because they want something more. They use the 'friendship' tactic which usually backfires unto them because their wussy emotions seep out sooner or later when they start to see the 'friendship' thing is not working. Desperation. Fail.
janie423 Posted May 25, 2010 Posted May 25, 2010 1. I'm talking about knowing why a woman acts the way she acts. Since women constantly say, "Don't try to understand us. We don't even understand ourselves", wouldn't you agree it's best to ask the man who gets them, which is the player? In the past, I've asked how to get women from other women, and it never worked. When I started asking playboys for advice things improved significantly. 2. Please the number of women who have at least made out with another women is huge, even older women who hardly did it in their youth are going dyke now. Stop trying to cover up the obvious. 3. No one forces the dude to stick around and be her friend and be her shoulder to cry on. That's what I'm saying. (1) you continually refer to the confused women out there that you have come in contact with . . . not all women think this way, and it is erroneous to attribute this behavior to all women (2) if you are referring to the Australian article, they "advise" women to mate with other women; this does not mean it is happening. no one is trying to cover up anything . . . you toss out generalizations which serve only to make you sound silly and uninformed (3) true . . . but it could lead to a romance (perhaps not in your world, however) you speak in absolutes . . . I think you are probably young but quite frankly you sound like an old cop or something, seriously . . .
Woggle Posted May 25, 2010 Posted May 25, 2010 I have been insulted by being told I sound old as well. I don't know why that is considered a bad thing. Being old means you have seen more and that you have learned a lot of things the hard way. I am told by older men all the time that i am very wise for my age.
somedude81 Posted May 25, 2010 Posted May 25, 2010 So... why did all my relationships start as friends, I wonder? Oh wait, I'm a woman and my personal experiences don't count I suppose, even though there is a man on the other side of the relationship. In all of your relationships there has been one woman involved, you. I would say that most men would be fine being friends first. So what happened is there was one woman who preferred being friends first and however many men you dated, who were fine with being friends first. From what I encountered and many men as well, being friends first with most women doesn't work. You're the exception.
Stockalone Posted May 25, 2010 Posted May 25, 2010 So... why did all my relationships start as friends, I wonder? There are no absolute truths in dating. That often isn't emphasized when we post our individual, subjective opinions/thoughts. I always try to keep that in mind though, that the advice I get is just that, an individual and subjective view on things. Can relationships start as friendships that later turn into more? Absolutely. But most advice (when we talk in general terms) is basically based on odds. How likely is something to be helpful or detrimental. And as far as I am concerned, having a friendship turn into more rarely happens. That is my experience, which doesn't negate your experience. It just means I can't agree with your perspective because it's contrary to what I have experienced. I am not saying it never happens, but I would tell other men not to get their hopes up, as IMO the odds aren't in their favour. Oh wait, I'm a woman and my personal experiences don't count I suppose, even though there is a man on the other side of the relationship. Maybe I'm living on another planet? Or I'm a hermaphrodite? Hmm. Your personal experience counts as much as that of anyone else. But how much we agree with, or trust it, depends on our own past experiences. Taking a woman's advice on how to get women isn't at all like catching fish, for goodness' sakes. It's just like taking a man's advice on how to appeal to other men so that they'd ask us out. Or would you say that men have no idea what they like either? In that light, we should have single-gender message boards where all the men can give advice to fellow men, and the women can give advice to single women, since we wouldn't need each others' opinions, ey? Getting good or bad advice has nothing to do with which gender that advice comes from. Even the same advice can be considered good or bad, depending on the recipient's personality. That said, the advice I have gotten from women has not once brought positive results in terms of dating success. But I do believe that has more to do with me and how I think/tick and less with what I believe to be well-meant advice from women. It's also not like I have never gotten bad advice from men, that happend quite often too and sometimes I have received the exact same advice from men and women.
janie423 Posted May 25, 2010 Posted May 25, 2010 I have been insulted by being told I sound old as well. I don't know why that is considered a bad thing. Being old means you have seen more and that you have learned a lot of things the hard way. I am told by older men all the time that i am very wise for my age. in this case, "old" in the jaded sense, like burned out . . . you don't sound burned out that way . . . it's not an insult to sound like a wise old man. And notice I said "old cop", like someone who has a negative slant on life.
Woggle Posted May 25, 2010 Posted May 25, 2010 in this case, "old" in the jaded sense, like burned out . . . you don't sound burned out that way . . . it's not an insult to sound like a wise old man. And notice I said "old cop", like someone who has a negative slant on life. Old cops became that way because they have seen a lot and have a realistic view of the world.
carhill Posted May 25, 2010 Posted May 25, 2010 I have been insulted by being told I sound old as well. I don't know why that is considered a bad thing. Being old means you have seen more and that you have learned a lot of things the hard way. I am told by older men all the time that i am very wise for my age. I hope you don't consider 'old' an insult when it comes from an older man. I have to often remind myself that you're early 30's. You've seen a lot in your short life. On-topic, wrt 'friend's first' or 'friendship' and romance, the myth is men and women have the same definition for friendship. IME, one datapoint with many sub-iterations, I have yet, in 51 years, to have a single 'friendship' (by my definition) with a female grow into a romance, regardless of how I might feel at any point. So I'm clear, and have had plenty of female friends, no woman has ever 'fallen for me' subsequent to a friendship. I don't consider myself 'fugly', rather 'average'. IMO, the psychology of 'friends' is different than the psychology of 'romance' and men and women experience this psychology in their own unique ways. For me, certainly, a close friendship can develop romantic feelings; I've seen many examples of this. The reverse? Never, so far. Happy to report on any changes
janie423 Posted May 25, 2010 Posted May 25, 2010 I hope you don't consider 'old' an insult when it comes from an older man. I have to often remind myself that you're early 30's. You've seen a lot in your short life. On-topic, wrt 'friend's first' or 'friendship' and romance, the myth is men and women have the same definition for friendship. IME, one datapoint with many sub-iterations, I have yet, in 51 years, to have a single 'friendship' (by my definition) with a female grow into a romance, regardless of how I might feel at any point. So I'm clear, and have had plenty of female friends, no woman has ever 'fallen for me' subsequent to a friendship. I don't consider myself 'fugly', rather 'average'. IMO, the psychology of 'friends' is different than the psychology of 'romance' and men and women experience this psychology in their own unique ways. For me, certainly, a close friendship can develop romantic feelings; I've seen many examples of this. The reverse? Never, so far. Happy to report on any changes generally your posts are quite edifying, but this one confuses me. aren't these two events one and the same, or what am I missing here?
janie423 Posted May 25, 2010 Posted May 25, 2010 Old cops became that way because they have seen a lot and have a realistic view of the world. disagree with the term realistic, they see too much of the seedy and nasty side of life and not enough of the wonderful side of life, which makes them overly cynical . . .
carhill Posted May 25, 2010 Posted May 25, 2010 generally your posts are quite edifying, but this one confuses me. aren't these two events one and the same, or what am I missing here? Perhaps my verbiage is the confusing part... 1. I have, subsequent to being friends with a woman for a length of time, sometimes years, developed romantic feelings for her. 2. I have not, in similar circumstances, experienced the reverse, where a woman, after having been my friend for a length of time, sometimes years, develops romantic feelings for myself. For this perspective, I offer my experiences with women from age 20 to age 41, when I got married. I was substantially single (relatively short LTR's) most of that period. I will update with current female friends as applicable. Don't see any expressing 'interest' as of now, but that makes sense, since I'm divorcing. Always open to change
Els Posted May 25, 2010 Posted May 25, 2010 Getting good or bad advice has nothing to do with which gender that advice comes from. Even the same advice can be considered good or bad, depending on the recipient's personality. This I agree with completely, and this was the main issue I had with the OP. That being said, most of the relationships I see around me, not only mine, started out as friends too. It's different for different people, but I would advise men not to completely discount the possibility, especially if they aren't that high on the looks/charm scale and thus would do very poorly in pick-up and random encounters. And I would very much prefer my advice to not be dismissed solely on the grounds that I am a woman, as I believe most men would bristle at having their opinions/advice discounted due to their gender as well.
Stockalone Posted May 25, 2010 Posted May 25, 2010 This I agree with completely, and this was the main issue I had with the OP. That being said, most of the relationships I see around me, not only mine, started out as friends too. Our experiences are indeed quite different then. But good for you and your friends. I think being friends who fall in love is great IF those feelings are mutual, but I just never see it happen in my environment. It's different for different people, but I would advise men not to completely discount the possibility, especially if they aren't that high on the looks/charm scale and thus would do very poorly in pick-up and random encounters. What makes you think those men will be able to become friends with women? I can see your point though. If you are friends, you already have things in common and get a chance to be noticed. Based on my own experience with being friends with a woman however, I don't want to repeat that experience ever again. Developing feelings for a friend and then being rejected, combined with losing a cherished friendship is a great loss. And I would very much prefer my advice to not be dismissed solely on the grounds that I am a woman, as I believe most men would bristle at having their opinions/advice discounted due to their gender as well. Yes, I can understand that.
Els Posted May 25, 2010 Posted May 25, 2010 Our experiences are indeed quite different then. But good for you and your friends. I think being friends who fall in love is great IF those feelings are mutual, but I just never see it happen in my environment. That's strange! What is your age group and environment, if I may ask? What makes you think those men will be able to become friends with women? I can see your point though. If you are friends, you already have things in common and get a chance to be noticed. Well, logically if one's strong point is something that is unseen at first impression, one would do well to allow the other person some time to see that point. That is possible in friendship/acquaintance, not possible in pickups and random conversations. Most women worth having will always accept a man as a friend - very few women will accept a near-stranger asking her out, unless the stranger makes a superb first impression (by looks, confidence, charm etc). And as said before, first impressions aren't their strong point, so... Based on my own experience with being friends with a woman however, I don't want to repeat that experience ever again. Developing feelings for a friend and then being rejected, combined with losing a cherished friendship is a great loss. I agree with this, yes. For some people perhaps the loss is too great to risk, and I understand that. But nobody should discount it without trying.
Author Green Posted May 25, 2010 Author Posted May 25, 2010 Hmm, pretty interesting. So a girl won't like you unless you flirt with her and made moves. Then even if you do manage to get her to like you, you aren't going to even know that she does. So regardless if you think she likes you or not, you have to ask her out? Then it all comes down to making a bunch of wild shots and hope you hit something. If you do manage to land a shot, you need to go for a the kill with a kiss, or else she'd bound away. Yeah that sounds like a summary of what I'm saying So... why did all my relationships start as friends, I wonder? Oh wait, I'm a woman and my personal experiences don't count I suppose, even though there is a man on the other side of the relationship. Maybe I'm living on another planet? Or I'm a hermaphrodite? Hmm. Taking a woman's advice on how to get women isn't at all like catching fish, for goodness' sakes. It's just like taking a man's advice on how to appeal to other men so that they'd ask us out. Or would you say that men have no idea what they like either? In that light, we should have single-gender message boards where all the men can give advice to fellow men, and the women can give advice to single women, since we wouldn't need each others' opinions, ey? Well what he means is, if you're looking to date a woman don't try to be her friend first, because it usually doesn't work. I've had relationships develop out of friendship too, but he's right. Pretty much what I'm trying to say. It's like if I said DON'T EXPECT TO MEET WOMEN AT BARS/CLUBS.... doesn't mean its imposible just not the greatest way to meet women IMO That bar thing should be a rule too lol I agree with everything you said except this one. A lot of girls over time will actually fall for you when you've been friends with them for a while (granted your not fugly). Its actually surprising because you would least expect it and you both have the mindset on being friends. The problem with guys trying to be 'friends' with girls first is they somehow seem 'friendly' and at the same time 'devious' because they want something more. They use the 'friendship' tactic which usually backfires unto them because their wussy emotions seep out sooner or later when they start to see the 'friendship' thing is not working. Desperation. Fail. I just think its not the best way unless you went into it JUST WANTING FRIENDS NOTHING MORE... and then had a change of heart. Dating Myths for Men: 15. Getting her number means a victory: Wrong! So many dudes get a woman's number and now think it's a victory and wanna do a touchdown dance. They say, "Do you like apples? I got her number. How do you like them apples?". But that could easily be a fake number. Or a man could call her and she never responds. Getting a number isn't anything. A man could get a woman's number and not get anything else. It's going to a job interview. An applicant could get ten job interviews and not once be hired. It just means you've gotten your foot in the door. Yeaht this is a good one... A NUMBER MEANS NOTHING... its just a tool to get in touch with some one... you still need to set plans and get that face time in
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