Doing it Since '78 Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 Oh, no, no no. He is scared and angry as his former delusional thinking; that he perceived her to be one way, with his rose-colored glasses, almost lost me and his family for her, almost thought of marrying her. When HE was emotionally healed enough to examine his feelings and choices, with rational cognitive thinking, with the glasses off, when her halo began to melt a little, he thinks NOW he was played big-time! Did he use her? Of course! Did she use him? Apparently, in retrospect now, big time. She is not your typical OW. I could care less. Apparently, he still does enough to despise her.....now. Did she love him? Or his money? Only he can answer that question. It no longer pertains to us and the work we have done on us. No offense but at the end of the day, that's what he gets for being an A$ $hole. Par for the course. I wish you both the best!
Author Spark1111 Posted May 26, 2010 Author Posted May 26, 2010 No offense but at the end of the day' date=' that's what he gets for being an A$ $hole. Par for the course. I wish you both the best![/quote'] Absolutely no argument there!
grogster Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 I think the unhealthy part is his need to STILL obsess or get angry at the way his OW felt/feels' date=' it shows he still cares deeply, and by asking you to decipher HER actions towards him is him maintaining some type of emotional connection with her, and (IMO) very disrespectful. Who gives a fck what she did or didn't do? Fck her!. [/u'] What happens if you stop answering his questions about her? Will he ask her next? He expects you to get over this great betrayal, yet seems to find a way to just bring it up at dinner, and even want your opinion on why his affair went south? FCK THAT! At this point his focus should be on repairing what he destryoed, not worrying about why OW told him she loved him and didn't really mean it I absolutely agree with the highlighted language. If the WS is truly over the affair, both cognitively and emotionally, the OW/OM ceases to exist for the WS either as an object of affection or loathing. The AP simply ceases to matter except as a terrible life choice which shall never, ever be repeated. And the WS should never ever bring up the ex-AP unless to answer truthfully questions posed by the BS. The WS's proper focus should be on the present and future with the BS and family. Let the past go. Otherwise, the "affair" will continue to play in the WS's head and the AP, as a memory, will continue to distract the WS from those who should be receiving his full, undivided attention. Hate and anger can shackle almost as much as love.
Author Spark1111 Posted May 26, 2010 Author Posted May 26, 2010 I absolutely agree with the highlighted language. If the WS is truly over the affair, both cognitively and emotionally, the OW/OM ceases to exist for the WS either as an object of affection or loathing. The AP simply ceases to matter except as a terrible life choice which shall never, ever be repeated. And the WS should never ever bring up the ex-AP unless to answer truthfully questions posed by the BS. The WS's proper focus should be on the present and future with the BS and family. Let the past go. Otherwise, the "affair" will continue to play in the WS's head and the AP, as a memory, will continue to distract the WS from those who should be receiving his full, undivided attention. Hate and anger can shackle almost as much as love. These are all excellent points and I agree! But please remember, in his trip to OZ, she was oh, so wonderful! Almost perfect. In his return to Kansas, and through LOTS OF THERAPY, she was somewhat, no alot, calculating and manipulative. SHe went out of her way to do some very unusual and hurtful things to me. Why? I didn't even know of her existence as an OW, just a co-worker. She went on to tell him many, many lies about her past that she convinced him were true to gain his sympathy. She also tried to re-initiate the affair, breaking no contact almost 2 years later. She also tried to lie about me. Hey, not all OW are alike. What can I say? So I think today, he deals with what he thought he perceived her to be....as oppose to what she may seem to him now. And I think that is where the anger comes from....nothing I can do about it, but to concentrate on "us." "Us" is fine. These may be his last "wisps" of fog clearing. In addition to having to deal with me and my pain, the total fall out of his actions, he also has to deal with, "Was I duped?"
ladydesigner Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 I was definitely in an "Affair Fog" during my A, but I also think I really did fall in love with my XOM and my ACTIONS had shown that. "Affair Fog" almost got me in the worst predicament in my life. I still cannot figure out why I even still think of my XOM. Why has my "fog" not cleared COMPLETELY? If I were with my XOM it would be a complete disaster. I was not thinking logically. I was looking for emotional intimacy after having been cheated on and my H not really being THERE for me emotionally. I ran into XOM's arms to save me from the pain I was experiencing with my H's infidelity. In the end I was obliterated. My XOM used me for whatever reason and was very cold and distant when he ended things with me. I have pulled myself out of the wreckage my H and I created and while most of "Fog" has cleared there is still some vapor there.
seren Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 You know what Spark, I reckon you should just drop a big house on her, and then steal her shoes!! H hates OW with a vengeance, this, IMO is yet more conflict avoidance and simply baffles me. When I ask questions, which is pretty rare these days as I am all questioned out, he paints it as a pretty sleazy time (wouldn't be my idea of an A). Now I realise that some of this is him not wanting to hurt me, and it is I who says but you cannot say that about her, it's not fair. But all it does is stir the pot and so I have to let it go, I choose to let it go. It was what it was, if he looks at the A I am sure he peers into a thick soupy fog and sees it for what it was and chooses to deny how he felt while with OW, I am far more realistic.
Author Spark1111 Posted May 27, 2010 Author Posted May 27, 2010 You know what Spark, I reckon you should just drop a big house on her, and then steal her shoes!! H hates OW with a vengeance, this, IMO is yet more conflict avoidance and simply baffles me. When I ask questions, which is pretty rare these days as I am all questioned out, he paints it as a pretty sleazy time (wouldn't be my idea of an A). Now I realise that some of this is him not wanting to hurt me, and it is I who says but you cannot say that about her, it's not fair. But all it does is stir the pot and so I have to let it go, I choose to let it go. It was what it was, if he looks at the A I am sure he peers into a thick soupy fog and sees it for what it was and chooses to deny how he felt while with OW, I am far more realistic. This is our scenario to a tee. And I agree. More conflict avoidance. They say the BS hates the OW/OM? They should take a look at the MP a few years later. I am only speculating on this, but I think they look back and see their partner in crime; the only pair of eyes that gazed lovingly at you/with you and for you as you committed the greatest act of deception in your life; one that had untold, painful consequences and devastating fall out. Unfair? You bet.
Katerina Posted May 31, 2010 Posted May 31, 2010 (edited) Spark1111, I've been reading your posts for a while now... The way your describe your H's and your understanding of the "fog" is what my H has been trying to explain to me. And I know that if I could only accept what he's saying, we could perhaps "move on" and I could perhaps "let go" of his A. But I have a hard time... how do I know he's not making all this stuff up - re-writing A history, as someone else said, to make himself feel better? I believe 100% that he himself totally believes what he's saying now, but is it really the truth???? One thing different between your and my situation is that he apparently never loved her. Yes, he got "emotionally attached" to her after a while, but he never ever planned on leaving me, always knew the A was temporary, never ever talked to her about me although she knew from the start he was married with children. But, despite of this, he's written her things like - the time with her was "the best years of his life". Now he says that he didn't mean it - those were his "good-bye" romantic crap words... but I have a really hard time letting those things/words go... somehow they have more weight to me than what he's saying now... We're starting therapy again... will see how long it lasts this time. Another huge problem I have and can't seem to let go of is that he continued texting her for 3 more months after I found out (they stopped seeing each other one month prior to my finding out and had been texting for a month before I found out about A). He saw me suffer so much and yet I was willing to forgive him.. I started to trust him again (too soon) and yet he still lied to my face about staying in touch with her. Is this love? Fog? Who did he REALLY love? I don't think it was me... Why couldn't he stop texting her? It was leading nowhere anyway - they were in different countries then. He says it was all part of his "crisis" (read "fog") and he wasn't thinking straight and wasn't able to make the right decisions, that he was still dedicated to making our M work, etc.... Those kind of explanations I have a hard time believing. Edited May 31, 2010 by Katerina
Author Spark1111 Posted May 31, 2010 Author Posted May 31, 2010 Katerina, I too, am again in MC and there is a post here somewhere regarding how much I like the new therapist. (Try to read it, as he made some good points.) Yes, to me, the aftermath was much more painful than the initital discovery, because of his continued contact with his OW. I kept throwing him out when I discovered he still contacted her, after snidely asking him, "So how is our reconcilaition going? Let me see....hmmmmm, maybe I should call up OW and ask her?" I refused to be his default choice, but in retrospect, he has agreed that he was hoping to keep her his default choice in the event I divorced him. So, yes, he was now stringing her along after DDay, in the event I permanently burned the bridge. What a cowardly mess, but it was all of his own making. She was always ready, willing and able to take his calls day or night.
Katerina Posted May 31, 2010 Posted May 31, 2010 Spark, so what helped you to be confident in the things he's saying now? In his explanations of the "fog", etc?
Author Spark1111 Posted June 1, 2010 Author Posted June 1, 2010 He likened it to a drug addict in need of their next fix, and they will lie, steal, manipulate and conduct themselves in all sorts of outrageous behavior to get their next fix. He said affairs are very similiar physically and emotionally to a drug addiction and that I would have to accept that. I think finally, I do. What my husband cannot remember is not intentional. What he cannot explain, he does not really know. What he does remember is so sketchy, so filled with wholes and misperceptions or clouded perceptions, it is not reliable. I get it.
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