Author Spark1111 Posted May 24, 2010 Author Posted May 24, 2010 When I look back at what I was like when I was in the fog, I am appalled at the levels of selfishness and thoughtlessness I demonstrated. Owl's post pretty much summarises what the fog is like. I really could not fully think through what I was doing or what the consequences were (very much head in the sand) but whatever I did was usually done to protect me regardless of who got hurt on the way. It was all done to maintain the status quo but in the end all those involved were unhappy. My H was not getting all of me, the ex-OM was not and I ended up holding part of me back from both of them whilst I "juggled" my life. Even after Dday, it took a while for the fog to clear. But when it did, I felt so relieved to be out of that mess and to be the person I once was before it all started. It's good to have a clear head. Biggest problem about the fog: You don't know you're in it at the time. You only realise you were in it once you are out and seeing light again. Oh Annie! So true! When I recount some of his statements, some of his actions following DDay, he cringes with shame and remorse. Another thing I have asked him: If you were truly in love, why were you so miserable most of the time? Doesn't love make people happy? Welcome back!
Snowflower Posted May 24, 2010 Posted May 24, 2010 When I look back at what I was like when I was in the fog, I am appalled at the levels of selfishness and thoughtlessness I demonstrated. Owl's post pretty much summarises what the fog is like. I really could not fully think through what I was doing or what the consequences were (very much head in the sand) but whatever I did was usually done to protect me regardless of who got hurt on the way. It was all done to maintain the status quo but in the end all those involved were unhappy. My H was not getting all of me, the ex-OM was not and I ended up holding part of me back from both of them whilst I "juggled" my life. Even after Dday, it took a while for the fog to clear. But when it did, I felt so relieved to be out of that mess and to be the person I once was before it all started. It's good to have a clear head. Biggest problem about the fog: You don't know you're in it at the time. You only realise you were in it once you are out and seeing light again. Anne, this is such a great post from the POV of someone who has been in/understands the fog concept. Thanks for writing this. I know my H still has a difficult time understanding all of his actions while in his affair fog (not what led him to have an affair-that's different, we've figured that out). So your posts help me understand. Besides, women have an easier time expressing difficult emotions! Again, thanks.
Snowflower Posted May 24, 2010 Posted May 24, 2010 Thanks for that...in all honesty I need more luck for the date I'm going on Saturday night...he's gorgeous and so far I've managed to buffalo him that I'm highly sophisticated and elegant! Oh well...now for a real date and the truth to come out! xx Well then, good luck on your date on Saturday! I'm sure you are sophisticated and elegant...I hope you have a great time!
Author Spark1111 Posted May 24, 2010 Author Posted May 24, 2010 I think that NC is absolutely correct in some circumstances, but not in every one. I don't look at myself as a default choice, because I know I will never be a choice...he doesn't want to leave his home because of all sorts of reasons, but the thing is he never has told me he was leaving or made it into a competition. He wanted part of me, I wanted part of him...would I take all of him-absolutely. At the moment I have part and until that's not enough or until someone else comes along it's what I'll take. I find your empathy for the OW amazing. I knew the woman my xH had an A with and I truly didn't like her, but I hadn't for many years. I remember going to my mother in law and various other family members and telling them to give her a chance...to remember it was their son, brother, uncle who had cheated on me, not his OW. It never dawned on me until I joined this forum that anyone would blame an OW/OM...yes, I can be a simpleton! I only had empathy in my heart for a divorced single mom embroiled STILL an law suits and the such with her xH. I found it hard to blame her because I could imagine how vulnerable and lonely that life is. My wrath was directed solely at my WS. I even told my children: If that is who your father chooses to spend the rest of his life with, I expect you to treat her with respect regardless of what decisions I make regarding my marriage. In time, as more of the story evolved, I revised my opinion, somewhat. Two years later when I finally spoke with her, I revised my opinion a lot! But that's detailed in another thread somewhere. I had an employee walk away from a loveless marriage and start an affair with an ahem MM. I saw her pain and confusion and euphoria and depair, up close and personal for 6 months. The drama! The sex! The heat! The passion of it all! Even when she realized he was really no good, and not an honorable man in many ways, she would still cry about the way he made her "feel." More fog....and I still felt sorry for her pain.
DadofTwoGirls Posted May 24, 2010 Posted May 24, 2010 Spark1111..I'm sorry your H put you through what he did...I can sense it killed you inside even to this day..again sorry...but in my A the OW started to throw out those 3 A breaking words in a strictly PA in which SHE initiated and continued to stress 'it's only for the sex'..she was in a fog to where she'd get upset if we didn't do it or cry if we couldn't..that's when I knew I was in deep doo doo..if I was in a fog that quickly blew it away..even though she kept her word about not telling a soul..she also hasn't spoken to me since I ended it 1 yr ago...so I guess some get in a fog and others find themselves trying to get out of the smog.
wheelwright Posted May 24, 2010 Posted May 24, 2010 Hey, I'm still standing tall, but thank you nonetheless. Hey Spark, I think you misread the essence of my post. I admire your stance. I did not say that WS return to loveless Ms or any such banal s***. I said that this was possible, as is a whole other array of factors, including love for the BS. I said it was about choices that involve this love. And that these choices when made is what creates the future reality. The past reality of love for the AP needn't be fog for this to happen.
Author Spark1111 Posted May 24, 2010 Author Posted May 24, 2010 Hey Spark, I think you misread the essence of my post. I admire your stance. I did not say that WS return to loveless Ms or any such banal s***. I said that this was possible, as is a whole other array of factors, including love for the BS. I said it was about choices that involve this love. And that these choices when made is what creates the future reality. The past reality of love for the AP needn't be fog for this to happen. Oh no, I didn't take offense or misunderstand. But I do not think many OW/OM take into account the choices of the BS on DDay. There seems to be a continued vein of, of course we would take them back; for the kids, the history, the status quo, the paycheck. Nothing could be further from the truth in my sitch and many others who post here at LS. He didn't choose to reconcile with me, no matter WHAT he tried to convince his OW of. I chose to reconcile with HIM after many many attempts not to do so. Only after he began to demonstrate he was worthy of a chance. Only when the fog lifted, and we could have a rational discussion regarding his choices and deception. Only when so many, many requirements were met to begin to try and restore my trust. Even then, I woke up every day for two years saying..."we will see how it goes." I never tried to minimize his feelings for her, although he tried to. I never tried to villify her, though he began too. All that is, is smoke and mirrors and deflection from his issues, his choices and I am too smart for that. Saw right through it. Many women may not. Look, for a man, even a cowardly one, love is an ACTION. It is not words of love, letting people down gently, spinning the truth to make all sides of the triangle happy, fullfilling family obligations, maintaining the history with someone. A man is always where he wants to be. They are pretty basic in that regard, IMHO. To assume anything else is romanticism, delusional and painful. Women need to stop torturing themselves with romantic delusions. Again, IMHO.
OWoman Posted May 25, 2010 Posted May 25, 2010 Another thing I have asked him: If you were truly in love, why were you so miserable most of the time? Doesn't love make people happy? Interestingly, it was this question that my H's counsellor asked him that made him realise that his M was not a "loving" one but an abusive one. My H didn't experience "fog" during the A - at least, not about the nature of our R, though as I mentioned he was still under some delusions about his then-M... but a couple of my previous MMs have. It would manifest as this completely unrealistic fantasy of a "happy ever after" scenario where they were simply magicked out of their dull, humdrum Ms into this bright, primary coloured world of intense passion and vivacity with lots of pink champagne and scarlet roses and an endless tango (both vertical and horizontal) driving them to greater and greater climaxes... Endorphins really can be dangerous drugs for the fragile male psyche, and some of them genuinely lost their grip on reality enough to fall in love / leave their Ws / hope for more... completely losing sight of the fact that not only had their tunnel vision excluded the rest of their "real" world (as described by Grogster) but it had also excluded the REAL me, and instead included some fantasy version what actually wanted any of that... It was all terribly sad, not at all pretty to see. Years on, I still occasionally get lovelorn texts or emails...
wheelwright Posted May 25, 2010 Posted May 25, 2010 Oh no, I didn't take offense or misunderstand. But I do not think many OW/OM take into account the choices of the BS on DDay. There seems to be a continued vein of, of course we would take them back; for the kids, the history, the status quo, the paycheck. Nothing could be further from the truth in my sitch and many others who post here at LS. He didn't choose to reconcile with me, no matter WHAT he tried to convince his OW of. I chose to reconcile with HIM after many many attempts not to do so. Only after he began to demonstrate he was worthy of a chance. Only when the fog lifted, and we could have a rational discussion regarding his choices and deception. Only when so many, many requirements were met to begin to try and restore my trust. Even then, I woke up every day for two years saying..."we will see how it goes." I never tried to minimize his feelings for her, although he tried to. I never tried to villify her, though he began too. All that is, is smoke and mirrors and deflection from his issues, his choices and I am too smart for that. Saw right through it. Many women may not. Look, for a man, even a cowardly one, love is an ACTION. It is not words of love, letting people down gently, spinning the truth to make all sides of the triangle happy, fullfilling family obligations, maintaining the history with someone. A man is always where he wants to be. They are pretty basic in that regard, IMHO. To assume anything else is romanticism, delusional and painful. Women need to stop torturing themselves with romantic delusions. Again, IMHO. Thanks for clarifying. Not sure about the bolded bit. The rest seems sound to me. I still think love after DDay involves choices based on feelings. That choice is a kind of action, but so was the choice to have an A. I think love is passion, intimacy and commitment which can each be present to varying degrees. The particular mixture any couple enjoys is indicative of the nature of their love. Each of these facets involves the fit between people, the feelings they have developed for each other, and obviously in the commitment element, duty, history, promises made and so on. As well as plans to be together in the future. In this area we are most able to exercise choice. It is nearly impossible to exercise choice directly in the other two elements, but we can consciously make an effort to provide a habitat in which they may flourish.
grogster Posted May 25, 2010 Posted May 25, 2010 (edited) Interestingly, it was this question that my H's counsellor asked him that made him realise that his M was not a "loving" one but an abusive one. My H didn't experience "fog" during the A - at least, not about the nature of our R, though as I mentioned he was still under some delusions about his then-M... but a couple of my previous MMs have. It would manifest as this completely unrealistic fantasy of a "happy ever after" scenario where they were simply magicked out of their dull, humdrum Ms into this bright, primary coloured world of intense passion and vivacity with lots of pink champagne and scarlet roses and an endless tango (both vertical and horizontal) driving them to greater and greater climaxes... Endorphins really can be dangerous drugs for the fragile male psyche, and some of them genuinely lost their grip on reality enough to fall in love / leave their Ws / hope for more... completely losing sight of the fact that not only had their tunnel vision excluded the rest of their "real" world (as described by Grogster) but it had also excluded the REAL me, and instead included some fantasy version what actually wanted any of that... It was all terribly sad, not at all pretty to see. Years on, I still occasionally get lovelorn texts or emails... Well said, OWoman. I especially like your vivid color descriptions. I've often thought that "The Wizard of Oz" was my allegorical affair journey. Marriage is represented by home in Kansas -- all rendered in drab black and white. Then the OP enters the not-so-safe home (in the form of a tornado) and transports the WS to the bright, colorful land of Oz where everything is charged with color and vividness. Oz is the mental landscape of the affair. But, despite all the color and excitement, there's a hint of menace and danger in this affair Oz. At the end of the journey, the WS discovers that neither his AP nor Oz (or the "Wizard" for that matter) are all that they claim or appear to be. At that point, all the WS wants to do is go home. Oz is one metaphor for the affair "fog." Edited May 25, 2010 by grogster
torranceshipman Posted May 25, 2010 Posted May 25, 2010 Affair fog = being completely led by your emotions to get the short term gratification that you want, losing all subjectivity, and ignoring all big red flags on the way because you aren't interested in logic - you are only interested in gratification in an emotional sense. When people come out of the 'affair fog' they have simply gotten enough gratification to lose some interest and gain some objectivity, and suddenly take a bit more notice of those big red flags. I wouldn't romanticize this - affair fog isn't some evil weeble that takes people hostage - it is simply them being led by their own selfish need for gratification, and it dissipates when they have had their fill.
Author Spark1111 Posted May 25, 2010 Author Posted May 25, 2010 Interestingly, it was this question that my H's counsellor asked him that made him realise that his M was not a "loving" one but an abusive one. My H didn't experience "fog" during the A - at least, not about the nature of our R, though as I mentioned he was still under some delusions about his then-M... but a couple of my previous MMs have. It would manifest as this completely unrealistic fantasy of a "happy ever after" scenario where they were simply magicked out of their dull, humdrum Ms into this bright, primary coloured world of intense passion and vivacity with lots of pink champagne and scarlet roses and an endless tango (both vertical and horizontal) driving them to greater and greater climaxes... Endorphins really can be dangerous drugs for the fragile male psyche, and some of them genuinely lost their grip on reality enough to fall in love / leave their Ws / hope for more... completely losing sight of the fact that not only had their tunnel vision excluded the rest of their "real" world (as described by Grogster) but it had also excluded the REAL me, and instead included some fantasy version what actually wanted any of that... It was all terribly sad, not at all pretty to see. Years on, I still occasionally get lovelorn texts or emails... Great post OW! Not only did the endorphins obstruct view of the real world, it also obstructed view of the real you.... You resented it? Interesting, because I think many do not resent the fantasy or perfect version of themselves they see reflected back in their lover's eyes. They always want to see the "obstructed" view, IMHO.
Author Spark1111 Posted May 25, 2010 Author Posted May 25, 2010 But, despite all the color and excitement, there's a hint of menace and danger in this affair Oz. At the end of the journey, the WS discovers that neither his AP nor Oz (or the "Wizard" for that matter) are all that they claim or appear to be. At that point, all the WS wants to do is go home. Grogster....thanks for posting this. As enough time has passed, my fWS has moved from deeply in love with xAP, to irritation, to aggravation, to almost....contempt. Why? Please believe me when I say I am not the type of BS who has to disparage the OW. Never have, never will. Certainly, never to him. That's just crass. But I do not know why some WS forever hold a soft spot in their hearts for their OW/OM, which I surmise would be the norm, to actively despising them. Is it that when the magical trip to Oz ends and the rose-colored glasses come off, what do you see differently? What has changed your viewpoint regarding your former affair partner?
Author Spark1111 Posted May 25, 2010 Author Posted May 25, 2010 Spark1111..I'm sorry your H put you through what he did...I can sense it killed you inside even to this day..again sorry...but in my A the OW started to throw out those 3 A breaking words in a strictly PA in which SHE initiated and continued to stress 'it's only for the sex'..she was in a fog to where she'd get upset if we didn't do it or cry if we couldn't..that's when I knew I was in deep doo doo..if I was in a fog that quickly blew it away..even though she kept her word about not telling a soul..she also hasn't spoken to me since I ended it 1 yr ago...so I guess some get in a fog and others find themselves trying to get out of the smog. My husband was deeply in love with this woman, so I think it was different. He was deeply conflicted when DDay hit, like a man sleepwalking. His opinion has since changed regarding her. It was nothing I fostered or allowed. And the extremes of his emotions towards her is of concern to me. I did not think it would be this way. But I do believe he thinks now, that he never truly saw her for who she was; just what he wanted her to be. And that's fog, I believe..... But I understand what you are saying about smog. I think my personal situation was a different sort of "Oz."
Doing it Since '78 Posted May 25, 2010 Posted May 25, 2010 Grogster....thanks for posting this. As enough time has passed, my fWS has moved from deeply in love with xAP, to irritation, to aggravation, to almost....contempt. Why? Please believe me when I say I am not the type of BS who has to disparage the OW. Never have, never will. Certainly, never to him. That's just crass. But I do not know why some WS forever hold a soft spot in their hearts for their OW/OM, which I surmise would be the norm, to actively despising them. Is it that when the magical trip to Oz ends and the rose-colored glasses come off, what do you see differently? What has changed your viewpoint regarding your former affair partner? Spark, I would be careful, that this isn't done as a blatant attempt to pacify your feelings towards the OW, and for you H to have a "reason" to speak about her, since I imagine if he were discussing her in any type of positive light, he would receive a swift and painful kick to the nuts
OWoman Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 As enough time has passed, my fWS has moved from deeply in love with xAP, to irritation, to aggravation, to almost....contempt. Why? Spark I don't think that that is that unusual. On LS we've seen that in action a number of times, with fMM like mattym and JohnWho as a couple of examples that spring to mind. Within what seems like indecently few posts, fWS can go from idolising the OW and wanting to run off with her and marry her and love her forever and ever... to spitting on the ground she's walked on, as their affection returns to their BWs (or xBWs, in one of the cited cases). Just as Owl describes a "rewriting of marital history" leading up to / during an A, so I think there is a "rewriting of A history" following DDay, where the WS wants to attempt a reconciliation. I don't believe this is deliberate any more than the marital history "rewrite" is deliberate - I think both are defense mechanisms to justify present behaviour by recasting the past in a way that justifies / inevitablises (yes, I know that's not a real word, but it's a useful one and ought to exist) their behaviour, to prevent cognitive dissonance. They need to believe the revised narrative about their past in order to continue their present behaviour - and, in order to believe it themselves, they need to convince an/other/s of this revised version too, to ground it outside of their fantasy. Like any other R which breaks up, where the dumpee sits around with her GFs dissing the new X, analysing in profound detail why he was simply wrong for her and why it's all about HIM and not about her, so that she can limp away with at least some self esteem intact, the RWS needs to put as much emotional distance as he can between the former version of himself and the current version of himself as he can. And part of that "look how different I am now" discourse is to big up how completely perplexing, unfathomable and plain bizarre his behaviour was by making the A and the OW seem so very unlikely / unattractive / out of character for [the new / the normal] HIM so that he can say, with conviction - "that wasn't REALLY me. THIS is me!"
delirious Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 Spark, I would be careful, that this isn't done as a blatant attempt to pacify your feelings towards the OW, and for you H to have a "reason" to speak about her, since I imagine if he were discussing her in any type of positive light, he would receive a swift and painful kick to the nuts Yes that was what I thought. However it shows that he cares enough about Spark not to hurt her futher. As by turning his love into hate for his OW, that would make her believe that he truly was over it which will take time.
seren Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 Well said, OWoman. I especially like your vivid color descriptions. I've often thought that "The Wizard of Oz" was my allegorical affair journey. Marriage is represented by home in Kansas -- all rendered in drab black and white. Then the OP enters the not-so-safe home (in the form of a tornado) and transports the WS to the bright, colorful land of Oz where everything is charged with color and vividness. Oz is the mental landscape of the affair. But, despite all the color and excitement, there's a hint of menace and danger in this affair Oz. At the end of the journey, the WS discovers that neither his AP nor Oz (or the "Wizard" for that matter) are all that they claim or appear to be. At that point, all the WS wants to do is go home. Oz is one metaphor for the affair "fog." Spooky Grogster, I hadn't read this before I posted a new thread titled, When the dust settles. Great minds think alike, mine prompted by the buying of red sparkly shoes. Weird indeed. Back on thread. H reckons that during the A he just didn't think very much about anything, he calls it his head up his arse time. I call it compartmentalising, keeping the A and who he was in that R in one box, me, our marriage and our problems in another. I see the fog as the WS not quite being in touch with the reality of what they are doing. I don't deny that in the A part life is very different from the M. I don't see the A as being reality, as if that were the case there would be no need to swirl around in the fog, everyone would see their respective parts in the A clearly and decide what to do, where to go next. The lies in an A mean that no one quite knows where they are going, but both BS and OP follow the WS, both trusting they know the way out. I so hated the gaslighting, the belief that it was my fault we were walking in circles, yet still trusting that me and H were lost together. H says that he just doesn't know what he was thinking during the A, that D day was a relief as it was just stressing him out and that he hadn't thought about the consequences for anyone. Just that he was selfish, didn't think further than the next minute, he had no plans as such, no undying love for OW, no real thought for me. I know his A wasn't all for sex, most times he just couldn't complete, it was an escape for whom he had become, and he didn't like who he was at home. With OW he could be who he wanted to be with us, but didn't know how to go about it, the further along the A got, the more lost and muddled it became.
Owl Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 Spark I don't think that that is that unusual. On LS we've seen that in action a number of times, with fMM like mattym and JohnWho as a couple of examples that spring to mind. Within what seems like indecently few posts, fWS can go from idolising the OW and wanting to run off with her and marry her and love her forever and ever... to spitting on the ground she's walked on, as their affection returns to their BWs (or xBWs, in one of the cited cases). Just as Owl describes a "rewriting of marital history" leading up to / during an A, so I think there is a "rewriting of A history" following DDay, where the WS wants to attempt a reconciliation. I don't believe this is deliberate any more than the marital history "rewrite" is deliberate - I think both are defense mechanisms to justify present behaviour by recasting the past in a way that justifies / inevitablises (yes, I know that's not a real word, but it's a useful one and ought to exist) their behaviour, to prevent cognitive dissonance. They need to believe the revised narrative about their past in order to continue their present behaviour - and, in order to believe it themselves, they need to convince an/other/s of this revised version too, to ground it outside of their fantasy. Like any other R which breaks up, where the dumpee sits around with her GFs dissing the new X, analysing in profound detail why he was simply wrong for her and why it's all about HIM and not about her, so that she can limp away with at least some self esteem intact, the RWS needs to put as much emotional distance as he can between the former version of himself and the current version of himself as he can. And part of that "look how different I am now" discourse is to big up how completely perplexing, unfathomable and plain bizarre his behaviour was by making the A and the OW seem so very unlikely / unattractive / out of character for [the new / the normal] HIM so that he can say, with conviction - "that wasn't REALLY me. THIS is me!" I think that this is entirely possible and likely. I agree...I don't know that it's deliberate, but I think that Owoman is probably spot on with this observation. This "re-writing of history" is a mental way to try to bridge the gap between what I WAS doing vs what I AM doing.
Author Spark1111 Posted May 26, 2010 Author Posted May 26, 2010 I think that this is entirely possible and likely. I agree...I don't know that it's deliberate, but I think that Owoman is probably spot on with this observation. This "re-writing of history" is a mental way to try to bridge the gap between what I WAS doing vs what I AM doing. Hence, the fog, as you so aptly put Owl, a cognitive dissonance where one loses judgement and the ability to understand the consequences of one's own actions. Now, in the trying to understand it, it remains too painful and is re-written by the WS. I get this. It protects the psyche and the ego. Just worry could it happen again? It seems delusional to me, that's all.
reboot Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 It seems delusional to me, that's all. Of course it's delusional. The bulk of affairs are delusional, imo, to begin with.
Author Spark1111 Posted May 26, 2010 Author Posted May 26, 2010 Yes that was what I thought. However it shows that he cares enough about Spark not to hurt her futher. As by turning his love into hate for his OW, that would make her believe that he truly was over it which will take time. Well, he never offers this info willingly and I certainly don't push or encourage it. In fact, he has asked ME why do I think she did so and so at such and such a time? His tone is venomous. And I answer, I can't speculate. I don't know her. SO why do YOU think she said or did this at such and such a time? He then seethes in silence. Normal? Maybe. Just wondering if it is healthy is all.
Author Spark1111 Posted May 26, 2010 Author Posted May 26, 2010 Of course it's delusional. The bulk of affairs are delusional, imo, to begin with. On this we again agree! Blinded by the colors in Oz! I have posted here often in that I am truly amazed at what is not discussed or seen when in an affair, what is assumed through the rose-colored glasses....through the fog.
Doing it Since '78 Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 (edited) Well, he never offers this info willingly and I certainly don't push or encourage it. In fact, he has asked ME why do I think she did so and so at such and such a time? His tone is venomous. And I answer, I can't speculate. I don't know her. SO why do YOU think she said or did this at such and such a time? He then seethes in silence. Normal? Maybe. Just wondering if it is healthy is all. I think the unhealthy part is his need to STILL obsess or get angry at the way his OW felt/feels, it shows he still cares deeply, and by asking you to decipher HER actions towards him is him maintaining some type of emotional connection with her, and (IMO) very disrespectful. Who gives a fck what she did or didn't do? Fck her!. What happens if you stop answering his questions about her? Will he ask her next? He expects you to get over this great betrayal, yet seems to find a way to just bring it up at dinner, and even want your opinion on why his affair went south? FCK THAT! At this point his focus should be on repairing what he destryoed, not worrying about why OW told him she loved him and didn't really mean it Edited May 26, 2010 by Doing it Since '78
Author Spark1111 Posted May 26, 2010 Author Posted May 26, 2010 I think the unhealthy part is his need to STILL obsess or get angry at the way his OW felt/feels, it shows he still cares deeply, and by asking you to decipher HER actions towards him is him maintaining some type of emotional connection with her, and (IMO) very disrespectful. Who gives a fck what she did or didn't do? Fck her!. What happens if you stop answering his questions about her? Will he ask her next? He expects you to get over this great betrayal, yet seems to find a way to just bring it up at dinner, and even want your opinion on why his affair went south? FCK THAT! At this point his focus should be on repairing what he destryoed, not worrying about why OW told him she loved him and didn't really mean it Oh, no, no no. He is scared and angry as his former delusional thinking; that he perceived her to be one way, with his rose-colored glasses, almost lost me and his family for her, almost thought of marrying her. When HE was emotionally healed enough to examine his feelings and choices, with rational cognitive thinking, with the glasses off, when her halo began to melt a little, he thinks NOW he was played big-time! Did he use her? Of course! Did she use him? Apparently, in retrospect now, big time. She is not your typical OW. I could care less. Apparently, he still does enough to despise her.....now. Did she love him? Or his money? Only he can answer that question. It no longer pertains to us and the work we have done on us.
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