Shattered Heart

[alsek]

This is my First Post, at any site and I admit that its a little hard to get started, so here goes. I am a healthy male in my mid 50's a professional

person who makes a good salary and have been married to a terrific women for 33 years. Last week I was given a letter from my gal which in no uncertain terms stated " that we were so different she couldn't live with me anymore and planned to move into her own place" In the same breath she stated she wouldn't abandon me and that she had no intrest in Dating whatsoever. I should point out that I am more or less the "Intellectual" and somewhat private person and my wife is the goodtimes type extravert. She has always gone out in the evening to hook up with friends and I have been ok with this and typically held down the fort. I have absolutely no idea what to do now..besides "beg and grovel ! Should I be trying to rejuvenate our marriage or should I be supportive in Her Move ???

[seren]

To have stayed together for 33 years, despite your differences must mean that you had far more in common than not. Maybe interests differ, but you have shared other stuff too. What has changed? have you both settled into what I call marriageitis, you know same old, same old, day in, day out. have your kids left home recently, job change, are you both loving toward each other, not in a routine comfy slippers way, but as individuals and not just as married partners.

 

Every one (well everyone I know) hankers for some excitement sometimes, wants to feel they can still float your boat, is sexy, attractive etc. Has this fallen by the wayside and can it be part of the problem? What do you think her reasons are? Do you love each other but not in love?

 

I ask because it is so easy to fall into being best friends, love each other but forgetting the in love maintaining the attraction side of a marriage (I did this). Do you think there may be someone else.? I know these are all questions you have probably asked yourself, have you asked your wife what? why she is feeling? First step is to talk and listen, away from your home, total honesty and begin from there.

[hopesndreams]

Whatever you do, don't beg and grovel, this will surely backfire and she will lose ALL respect for you. No respect means no love.

 

What personality changes has she gone through? When did you first start noticing something wasn't right?

[Scrybe]

Don't beg and grovel. Some my disagree with my advice but I would suggest the following. First consider that it took a lot from her to screw up the courage to tell you this. She's probably been thinking about this longer than you imagine. Also don't buy the line about her not dating. She's trying to let you down easy and doesn't want to hurt you but right now...she is likely feeling trapped and wants her freedom. She's unhappy and feels she deserves a chance at happiness and she can't imagine that it's with you.

 

I say that you tell her that you won't get in the way of her moving out if that is what she wants to do but could she at least sit down and talk honestly about what went wrong. No judgement. No anger. Just the truth. Then let her speak. Then you tell her how you feel. Let her know that you had no idea and that you are willing put some work into making things better when she is but if she needs time to sort her feelings out that's fine. And let her go.

 

Be prepared for her not coming back. In the meantime think about what she told you. Think about what you told her...about your needs and what would make you happy. And go on with your life without her.

 

It's possible that she's made up her mind and just needs to move on. It's possible she's confused and is looking for an escape/quick fix to her problems and has settled on making you the source of her issues. Usually there is something going on at a deeper level that only has to do with you on a superficial level. I say this because after 33 years of marriage either you are COMPLETELY clueless or she's not had the courage and trust to speak openly and honestly to you about her concerns and problems. Or a combination of both.

 

But not giving you a chance to fix things and going right for the separation means she doesn't want to fight you to get free. At least she thinks it's a fight. She thinks counseling would be a waste of time and has made up her mind and is afraid to go back. She expects you to do one of two things. Grovel and beg. Or make dramatic changes and gestures to keep her there. She's prepared to ignore both. She won't be prepared for you to actually listen to her without judgement or beggin. She's not prepared for you to love her so much you'll get out her way and give her some space to think.

 

But it has to be sincere. You have to prepare yourself for the reality that she may never come back if you step aside. Even if she doesn't I think your relationship may be better than guilting her into staying and being miserable all over again.

[Mimolicious]

What everyone else said is good stuff! Hope it helps and I agree, don't beg and grovel. Give her the space she is asking but and keep yourself entertained. I wish you strength and hope you can keep it together. It's going to be hard but you will make it out ok.

[alsek]

My gosh, I am totally blown away by depth and Caring of ALL of your responses. For a First timer I feel very gratified. This is to a point where I was trying to read the posts through copious Tears. I think that there were some excellent statements made and they hit home and helped with my understanding of possibly where my Gal is coming from. I didn't (forgot) mention in my original post that She is about a year into menopause, which may have some bearing on her decisions. She told me she wasn't in Love with me But did love me. She says that this has been her feelings for the past 15 years !She has told me and my daughter (26 and living away from home ) that she has been monogamous throughout our marriage, which I believe. From my own perspective, I want to do an immediate "about face" and stop doing everything and anything that tics her off and Start doing the things she was attracted to me in the first place. I'm certainly Not so set in my ways that I can't learn new tricks or at least compromise. At 55 and 33 years of marriage to this person, there is an awful lot of history and emotion to let slip away. I do love this Gal, enough to let her be on her own....but my premise and motive is to get her back She isn't my life but she is a Majority Shareholder. If any of you posters would like to contribute some more advice, I am ALL Ears !

 

Once again, I thank all of you for your "Humanity" !![FONT=Helv][sIZE=2][FONT=Helv][sIZE=2]

 

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[MyNameIsJane]

Do not beg and grovel - but... is this a possible conversation... or is it decided and concrete? After all, you have been married more than three decades - this clearly wasn't a marriage that fizzled out after a year or two and ended up being something she didn't sign up for... is there anything that can be changed? Therapy? Maybe you try being more extroverted (go out with her and her buddies every once in awhile) - you've been married longer than many people on here, so you of all people already know marriage is about sacrifice and compromise... see if there is anything you can do to salvage this..

 

But dont beg... it will make things worse. You two have been together so long, I cannot fathom that this cannot be remedied by therapy or compromise or a big, fun romantic getaway

Unless a betrayal has been committed, I cannot see any irreparable damage to this marriage. See what she needs that she feels she is missing and work it!

Edited May 26, 2010 by MyNameIsJane

[seren]

First off, the menopause thing. I am at this stage and it really does make me feel old, the end of my sparkly years, weepy, emotional, a time for looking back and thinking WTF have I done with the last 5 years, I am at times irrational, grumpy, mad as a badger and oh so looking for validation that I am still all that, still float H's boat and can still turn heads. In my more saner (hormonally balanced) days, I can recognise that it is the menopause and that life really is good. So, that can be one part of the equation.

 

Secondly, all marriages, especially long term ones, go through times of stagnation, love still being there but the sparkly stuff can get stuffed into the background. Resurrecting date nights helped us (H had an A after 23 yrs) remembering what it was that we both loved about each other was another. H began sending me little cards again, bought me flowers, picked me flowers, remembered to let me know how beautiful he thought I was, you know the little things that can get overlooked. They meant the world to me. H telling me that even if I left, even if I found someone else that he would always love me and search for me (not in a stalker way) made me feel cherished. In turn, I did the same back. The small things are what won me over, nothing grand, just things he knew made me smile.

 

Sometimes the dissatisfaction can be with ourselves or just with life in general, were I you, I would just ask what she wanted to do next. I would try to gently woo her, to remind her what you both had, but subtly. I would also set aside time to talk, others have said don't grovel or beg, i would say just be honest about your feelings, say your piece and ask if there was a possibility that if you both went to MC you might find each other again.

 

I would also look at whether I could do anything about myself to help the process along. Fingers and toes crossed for you.

[alsek]

First off, the menopause thing. I am at this stage and it really does make me feel old, the end of my sparkly years, weepy, emotional, a time for looking back and thinking WTF have I done with the last 5 years, I am at times irrational, grumpy, mad as a badger and oh so looking for validation that I am still all that, still float H's boat and can still turn heads. In my more saner (hormonally balanced) days, I can recognise that it is the menopause and that life really is good. So, that can be one part of the equation.

 

Secondly, all marriages, especially long term ones, go through times of stagnation, love still being there but the sparkly stuff can get stuffed into the background. Resurrecting date nights helped us (H had an A after 23 yrs) remembering what it was that we both loved about each other was another. H began sending me little cards again, bought me flowers, picked me flowers, remembered to let me know how beautiful he thought I was, you know the little things that can get overlooked. They meant the world to me. H telling me that even if I left, even if I found someone else that he would always love me and search for me (not in a stalker way) made me feel cherished. In turn, I did the same back. The small things are what won me over, nothing grand, just things he knew made me smile.

 

Sometimes the dissatisfaction can be with ourselves or just with life in general, were I you, I would just ask what she wanted to do next. I would try to gently woo her, to remind her what you both had, but subtly. I would also set aside time to talk, others have said don't grovel or beg, i would say just be honest about your feelings, say your piece and ask if there was a possibility that if you both went to MC you might find each other again.

 

I would also look at whether I could do anything about myself to help the process along. Fingers and toes crossed for you.

 

Well, all I can say is that you have raised some very valid points here and I really do appreciate your openess and perspectives. My Gal does seem to be more and more critical of her looks and I'm also sure she is questioning the same WTF scenario. I know she is hurting and I want to help her...on one hand, I have her saying to me "I need my own space" and on the other hand I am sure there is something I can do ...before saying Bon voyage. I would be more than happy to see a councillor or a shrink anything, up to and including doing handstands and sprouting Pansies from my bottom ! This Lady is a real " keeper". I can see now that the complacency of the both of us has played out and allowed this to manifest to the point where we are now. I should have had my wings clipped a long time ago and been somewhat forced into the "socialization Scene" or at least been servered with an altimatum of sorts. I think if I left my intellect at home and Listened more...it would go along way to putting more focus on her.

[alsek]

Do not beg and grovel - but... is this a possible conversation... or is it decided and concrete? After all, you have been married more than three decades - this clearly wasn't a marriage that fizzled out after a year or two and ended up being something she didn't sign up for... is there anything that can be changed? Therapy? Maybe you try being more extroverted (go out with her and her buddies every once in awhile) - you've been married longer than many people on here, so you of all people already know marriage is about sacrifice and compromise... see if there is anything you can do to salvage this..

 

But dont beg... it will make things worse. You two have been together so long, I cannot fathom that this cannot be remedied by therapy or compromise or a big, fun romantic getaway

Unless a betrayal has been committed, I cannot see any irreparable damage to this marriage. See what she needs that she feels she is missing and work it!

 

I have been assured by my Wife and daughter that cheating is Not appart of this equation and quite honestly I beleive this. No, is there someone out there she wants to pursue, I don't know but she does say that She is not interested in dating. As "results orientated " person, I find it really difficult to Do Nothing. You are completely correct in say that Marriage about sacrifice....less Me and More We. For myself, maybe the simple fact of doing Nothing, in the end, represents a Me and I ould like to change this. In fact this simply isn't who I am and I feel very poorly along these lines

[giotto]

well, someone has to say it... she might not be cheating now, but it's possible she has someone lined-up and now she wants out... she is dropping you gently. She wants to be on her own... really? Why? You said she goes out every evening and she has fun... why does she need to move out? I find this quite strange... on the other hand, I might be completely wrong...

[TaraMaiden]

Ok...given that the OP has both sought - and been given - assurances that this isn't happening, I think we may be able to conclude that you probably are, Giotto.

Amazing how you always seek the worst and most negative scenario. And yes, it is possibly because you are a man... men have a tendency to think the worst because 9 times out of 10, this would be the reason you walk out on a relationship. Actually or metaphorically. Because you can't keep it in your trousers.

Dio santo, che disco bloccato che sei....!

 

OP, I understand.

My ex-husband and I split up for very much the same reasons. We were going nowhere fast, and everything had stagnated, come to a standstill and we were existing, not living.

The boredom threshold had not only been reached, it had been stepped over, swept, scrubbed, polished and had a new mat put down.

To be honest, we had both reached such a level of apathy, that we knew that no amount of counselling was ever going to make it swivel, let alone turn around.

Both he and I now have new partners.

We have both moved on, and have two daughters to show for it all, and that's fine.

Sometimes, 'til death do us part' refers to another kind of death, and not just the corporeal one.

If something has flat-lined, can we bring it back? And, actually - is it worth it?

Would its quality of Life be bck to normal?

Would it be beneficial to exist on a life-support machine, or just let it go?

I can't say for sure what you could or should do.

but it sounds to me (unfortunately) as if her mind is made up....

From a woman's PoV - one who has been there - the biggest compliment you could give her, is to remain dignified, wish her well - and then understand and know that Life is not over - and begin living it - for yourself.

 

I wish you well, and hope things work out to your mutual benefit and happiness.

[giotto]

Ok...given that the OP has both sought - and been given - assurances that this isn't happening, I think we may be able to conclude that you probably are, Giotto.

Amazing how you always seek the worst and most negative scenario. And yes, it is possibly because you are a man... men have a tendency to think the worst because 9 times out of 10, this would be the reason you walk out on a relationship. Actually or metaphorically. Because you can't keep it in your trousers.

Dio santo, che disco bloccato che sei....!

 

OP, I understand.

My ex-husband and I split up for very much the same reasons. We were going nowhere fast, and everything had stagnated, come to a standstill and we were existing, not living.

The boredom threshold had not only been reached, it had been stepped over, swept, scrubbed, polished and had a new mat put down.

To be honest, we had both reached such a level of apathy, that we knew that no amount of counselling was ever going to make it swivel, let alone turn around.

Both he and I now have new partners.

We have both moved on, and have two daughters to show for it all, and that's fine.

Sometimes, 'til death do us part' refers to another kind of death, and not just the corporeal one.

If something has flat-lined, can we bring it back? And, actually - is it worth it?

Would its quality of Life be bck to normal?

Would it be beneficial to exist on a life-support machine, or just let it go?

I can't say for sure what you could or should do.

but it sounds to me (unfortunately) as if her mind is made up....

From a woman's PoV - one who has been there - the biggest compliment you could give her, is to remain dignified, wish her well - and then understand and know that Life is not over - and begin living it - for yourself.

 

I wish you well, and hope things work out to your mutual benefit and happiness.

 

Tara, like you, I'm sure, I've read many threads on this board where this kind of thing very often turns out to be true, unfortunately. The fact that she is saying she is not seeking to date to me is a big red flag. I don't really see why she would leave her marriage of 33 years to go and live on her own when she can have both: fun outside the house and a loving husband. I've been in a relationship for the last 25 years and I know how difficult it would be to leave my wife (which I probably will do in a few years time, anyway - I'm preparing myself for that), so unless there are some fairly big problems I doubt she would leave him... having said that, I really DO hope it's not true.

[TaraMaiden]

Tara, like you, I'm sure, I've read many threads on this board where this kind of thing very often turns out to be true, unfortunately.

(. . .)

I've been in a relationship for the last 25 years and I know how difficult it would be to leave my wife (which I probably will do in a few years time, anyway - I'm preparing myself for that), so unless there are some fairly big problems I doubt she would leave him... having said that, I really DO hope it's not true.

 

Are you therefore saying that in order to follow form, you're going to look to have an affair, just to prove what you're saying...?

 

Apathy, tiredness or simply the entrenched opinion that there's no point continuing, because the effort outweighs the benefits can be reason enough...Past caring, past the point of no return, past the point of seeing any point....

[giotto]

Are you therefore saying that in order to follow form, you're going to look to have an affair, just to prove what you're saying...?

 

Apathy, tiredness or simply the entrenched opinion that there's no point continuing, because the effort outweighs the benefits can be reason enough...Past caring, past the point of no return, past the point of seeing any point....

 

nope, I'm not leaving to have an affair... I will be leaving because I've suffered enough and I don't love my wife anymore. She has her problems and she is not prepared to get to the root of it... obviously, I'm not that important to her and she doesn't respect me or she thinks I'm stupid...

[TaraMaiden]

Exactly.

So you see, there are tons of reasons - other than infidelity, actual or intended - for people to wish to call it a day.

While I see your point, I think it pays to note that if an OP has pointed out a certainty (more than once), then maybe sowing seeds of doubt is not constructive.

 

Maybe....

[giotto]

Exactly.

So you see, there are tons of reasons - other than infidelity, actual or intended - for people to wish to call it a day.

While I see your point, I think it pays to note that if an OP has pointed out a certainty (more than once), then maybe sowing seeds of doubt is not constructive.

 

Maybe....

 

yes, but I'm staying for the children... and I a man... what I'm saying is that a woman very often has someone lined-up already (maybe just in her mind) in order to fill the emotional gap she is giving up. As I said, I'd like to be wrong, but I find it difficult to believe that a woman would leave a 33 year long marriage (which doesn't sound unpleasant) for nothing...

[TaraMaiden]

I did.

 

And it's never 'for nothing'. You seem to believe that simply because there is no outward evident manifestation of a serious hiatus, then it's for 'nothing'.

No woman - or man - dumps a 33-year marriage (in my case, 23) for nothing.

It could have been a gradual build up, an evolving process. This could - in her mind - have died ages ago. In fact - read his post #6. She says she's been feeling like this for 15 years.

There's no hatred on her side, no anger, no animosity or resentment.

She's just 'done'.

She's indifferent.

It's all gone, so she's out.

 

There may be many underlying factors, but one prominent one is that she simply sees no point in investing more time, effort and energy into sustaining something largely lifeless, when there is so much living left to do.

 

The menopause probably has very, very little to do with it.

I was 47 when my ex-and I agreed to part. I'm 53 now.

My menopause hasn't even kicked in.....

 

With a little luck and a following wind, I have another 40-odd years, potentially, to go.

So has she.

 

That's another lifetime.

Why should anyone spend it somewhere they don't want to be?

 

She left ages ago, emotionally.

Now, the physical side is following.

 

This so mirrors my situation.

 

EDIT:

And 'staying for the children' really is the most ridiculous, pointless and thankless reason you could possibly think of.

Dong things 'for others' in such cases, simply doesn't wash.

It teaches them all the wrong reasons for sticking with it....

They won't thank you for the sacrifice - so what did you do it all for?

My daughter now tells me I should have quit a lot sooner than I did.

And she's right.

Edited May 26, 2010 by TaraMaiden

[giotto]

I did.

 

And it's never 'for nothing'. You seem to believe that simply because there is no outward evident manifestation of a serious hiatus, then it's for 'nothing'.

No woman - or man - dumps a 33-year marriage (in my case, 23) for nothing.

It could have been a gradual build up, an evolving process. This could - in her mind - have died ages ago. In fact - read his post #6. She says she's been feeling like this for 15 years.

There's no hatred on her side, no anger, no animosity or resentment.

She's just 'done'.

She's indifferent.

It's all gone, so she's out.

 

I really DO hope it's like you are saying... I do. I'm not a heartless person, full of negativity (although I might come across like that... ) I think the OP should bear that in mind as a possibility...

 

EDIT:

And 'staying for the children' really is the most ridiculous, pointless and thankless reason you could possibly think of.

Dong things 'for others' in such cases, simply doesn't wash.

It teaches them all the wrong reasons for sticking with it....

They won't thank you for the sacrifice - so what did you do it all for?

My daughter now tells me I should have quit a lot sooner than I did.

And she's right.

 

Looks like you ended up having a bad relationship with your SO... it's not our case. Although I've been hurt and she is a rather selfish person (I knew that when we met), we do get along and we don't argue. We still do a lot of things as a family. There is no negativity in our relationship. We care a lot about each other. The children don't see a bitter couple always at each other's throat. We are not perfect (but no couple is perfect) and we are a well-oiled machine. I do honestly believe it would be worse for the children if we split-up now. Having said that, it's just not enough for me anymore... that's why I will be leaving soon... ;-)

Edited May 26, 2010 by giotto

[reboot]

Someone has to say it.

 

"I love you but I'm not in love with you" is typical doublespeak for "I've found someone else". No she won't admit it. Yes she will lie about it. Is it a 100% given? No, but it's very likely.

[TaraMaiden]

Looks like you ended up having a bad relationship with your SO... it's not our case.

Well actually, we didn't. We actually had a very good, amicable relationship.

 

Although I've been hurt and she is a rather selfish person (I knew that when we met), we do get along and we don't argue. We still do a lot of things as a family. There is no negativity in our relationship. We care a lot about each other. The children don't see a bitter couple always at each other's throat. We are not perfect (but no couple is perfect) and we are a well-oiled machine.

 

yup. Same here.....If I'm going to point fingers - as you have at your wife - then I would say that 2 years into the marriage, he became Mr Ordinary, Responsible, Upright Citizen, and completely nerdy and boring to boot. he is an expert in IT and a first-class computer technician.

But hang on - there's 2 in a relationship, right? So I guess there must have been times when he thought on similar lines about me, so I'm not laying blame here at all. It's just a divergence of compatibility, and moving along at different rates, on different planes.

 

We just sailed along, up and down, much the same way I would guess many others did. And actually, push comes to shove, he was the one to initiate the separation.... he made many comments and laid loads of hints that really, it was time to split the difference and permit our paths to diverge.

Sure, we had a problem here and there - but nothing either of us were prepared to cause an irreparable hostile or bitter rift in our friendship.

So - we split. I left.

 

I do honestly believe it would be worse for the children if we split-up now. Having said that, it's just not enough for me anymore... that's why I will be leaving soon... ;-)

Exactly. So actually, it's really not about 'staying for the Children'. It's about staying until some better motive and opportunity comes up, or until staying turns out to be more foolish than going.

Right?

There is no Right Time for the children, for their parents to split up.

It's not the split. It's how mature you are, and how honest and direct you are with the kids. The more you treat them like idiots, the more they resent the split - and you.

Be up-front, honest and genuine with them, and they'll get over it quicker. They also know 13ull5hit when they hear it.

[giotto]

well, I just want to keep the family together as long as I can... it's not that bad and my total happiness can wait...

[giotto]

then I would say that 2 years into the marriage, he became Mr Ordinary, Responsible, Upright Citizen, and completely nerdy and boring to boot. he is an expert in IT and a first-class computer technician.

 

lol... despite being 47, I'm much more extreme in everything: my political views, sports I like, food I eat, music I listen to... my wife likes sitting on the sofa watching TV these days...

 

But maybe we should stop hijacking this thread...

[TaraMaiden]

I always love it when people make the assumption things can wait.

 

The trouble is, people always think they have time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: No, I don't think it's so much a thread-jack as more insight. we're not off topic as such.

[seren]

I remember feeling emotionally dead for some years prior to H's affair, I was emotionally detached from everything, my work (high profile job) at the time was all. I just kept thinking what a waste of a previously wonderful, loving marriage, what a waste of all that love that H and I had shared. I had forgotten (so had he) what in love meant, even though I still loved him. Our D Day prompted us to look at what we have and work at not forgetting to make the effort to remind each other that we are in love, it's not too much of an effort, but it could be easy to slip into comfortable, easy.

 

I also remember during the before years us hearing our song on the radio and asking H to dance, I cried and cried because it was a memory of better times and I so wanted those times to be back, but we had drifted into our own worlds and it seemed such a struggle to find it again. I am so very, very pleased to say we have and I think it can be done.

 

If standing on your hands and growing pansies from your bottom works, I would gladly send you the seeds to do so. Give it your absolute best shot, woo her, remember who you were/are and let her see that she is loved, truly, madly, deeply. I am a romantic but a realist, I would not, ever have left H without giving it my best shot. If it doesn't work, then you will have tried. I think sometimes we have an idea of what we would do in a given situation but when it happens all sensible thoughts fly out of the window and we just do what we have to. I so, so hope it all works out, but if she does still leave, then at least you will have tried.